What do you think?
Rate this book
Red Pill Ideology: Lifting the Shiny Wrapping from the Manosphere
From the accomplishments of feminism to the dynamics of the modern dating market, Red Pill and the larger Manosphere claim that everything we have been taught about women, society, and seduction is a lie. Within Red Pill, the concepts of Alpha-Seed, Beta-Need and the Feminine Imperative are accepted as gospel. Red Pill men are shown how masculinity is under attack, and are instructed to always maintain their Frame to avoid becoming the dreaded blue-pilled beta cuck. But how many of Red Pill’s “truths” are based in the actual science and data that Red Pill so staunchly claims it to be? How much of Red Pill is real… and how much is pure fiction, wrapping its followers in even more of the lies it claims to be freeing them of?
Taking on the truths of Red Pill head-on to see if they can stand up to the tests of scientific investigation, rationality, and logic, Red Pill Ideology seeks to understand the underlying foundational beliefs and motivations of Red Pill men with the same thoroughness that Red Pill claims to understand women.
Taking on the truths of Red Pill head-on to see if they can stand up to the tests of scientific investigation, rationality, and logic, Red Pill Ideology seeks to understand the underlying foundational beliefs and motivations of Red Pill men with the same thoroughness that Red Pill claims to understand women.
Kindle Edition
Published June 1, 2022
7 people are currently reading
57 people want to read
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 15 of 15 reviews
June 24, 2022
good research as far as i can check, it has continuity in its arguments, mostly neutral tone, and a willingness to engage with the red-pill/incel rhetoric that is really refreshing to see.
its a shame that many red-pilled/incel men that I have known/seen wouldn't change a lot of their views with a book, even a book as well documented as this one. if anything I know that it has helped me confront some biases and opinions that I thought had forgotten when I left the manosphere influence. and for that, I have to thank you, author, for giving me the opportunity of reading this book, I can only hope that this book can reach as many people as it can and help or at least inform about these topics.
its a shame that many red-pilled/incel men that I have known/seen wouldn't change a lot of their views with a book, even a book as well documented as this one. if anything I know that it has helped me confront some biases and opinions that I thought had forgotten when I left the manosphere influence. and for that, I have to thank you, author, for giving me the opportunity of reading this book, I can only hope that this book can reach as many people as it can and help or at least inform about these topics.
July 12, 2022
Cynthia attempts something that is done too rarely, and for that she deserves credit. She reviews and critiques Red Pill Ideology -- but without demonizing men or the ideology itself, indeed early on she says that:
She says she wants to foster conversation, not just make accusations. And we need more of that. I give her 4 stars for that even though the quality of the writing and the organization is so-so and especially in the latter part of the book devolves into a conversational style better suited to a conversation on a message-board than as a book.
What I miss in this book is a more critical eye on evolutionary psychology. Yes sure, we're all influenced by evolutionary pressures. But it's not the only source of behavior, and we don't live our lives solely seeking to increase our offspring. (if we did, contraception would be universally unpopular, it's very much not)
On the other hand I really like that she points out that large demographic changes can't simply be attributed to individual women and men, but by necessity must have society-level explanations that are worth investigating.
Trends like these are worth investigating. Why are there more celibate people? And why is celibacy among men going up a LOT faster than celibacy among women? It's hardly plausible that the explanation would be that men are less motivated to have sex. So if men are at least as likely as women to want to have a sex life, why then are there so many more men who are nevertheless celibate?
The biggest question about this book might be who the intended audience is.
Egalitarian-minded folks who have a reasonably balanced view of gender-roles in dating will almost universally ALREADY have rejected Red Pill as misogynist and unscientific. (even if some of the observations they're trying to explain are genuine) I agreed with fairly large parts of the critique here -- but I knew that BEFORE opening the book, and didn't really learn anything much new.
Meanwhile, the men who *do* believe in RedPill theory are fairly unlikely to bother reading the book, despite the good-faith effort to not be antagonistic. It'd be a good thing if they'd read the book, I just kinda doubt that they will.
Men deal with a lot of shit that they don't get a lot of support to deal with. A lot of what Red Pill teaches makes sense, at least on the surface. There is no reason to berate men who are trying to make sense of things. Red Pill, as I explain in later chapters, offers a lot of value to men and I have no desire to minimize that value.
She says she wants to foster conversation, not just make accusations. And we need more of that. I give her 4 stars for that even though the quality of the writing and the organization is so-so and especially in the latter part of the book devolves into a conversational style better suited to a conversation on a message-board than as a book.
What I miss in this book is a more critical eye on evolutionary psychology. Yes sure, we're all influenced by evolutionary pressures. But it's not the only source of behavior, and we don't live our lives solely seeking to increase our offspring. (if we did, contraception would be universally unpopular, it's very much not)
On the other hand I really like that she points out that large demographic changes can't simply be attributed to individual women and men, but by necessity must have society-level explanations that are worth investigating.
Specifically, it showed that in 2008 10% of men and 8% of women reported not having sex within the past year. In 2018 those numbers rose to 28% for men and 18% for women. A 10% difference is very different than a 2% difference, and warrants some investigation.
Trends like these are worth investigating. Why are there more celibate people? And why is celibacy among men going up a LOT faster than celibacy among women? It's hardly plausible that the explanation would be that men are less motivated to have sex. So if men are at least as likely as women to want to have a sex life, why then are there so many more men who are nevertheless celibate?
The biggest question about this book might be who the intended audience is.
Egalitarian-minded folks who have a reasonably balanced view of gender-roles in dating will almost universally ALREADY have rejected Red Pill as misogynist and unscientific. (even if some of the observations they're trying to explain are genuine) I agreed with fairly large parts of the critique here -- but I knew that BEFORE opening the book, and didn't really learn anything much new.
Meanwhile, the men who *do* believe in RedPill theory are fairly unlikely to bother reading the book, despite the good-faith effort to not be antagonistic. It'd be a good thing if they'd read the book, I just kinda doubt that they will.
June 8, 2022
The intricate layers of contextual matter make this a more involved read than I anticipated, hence I am not quite through as I had intended by this date. What has amazed me is that it doesn't really pose an argument so much as educating up a different pathway illustrating holes in the Red Pill notion, as well as occasional favorable nods. I am pleased that there is more to it than I anticipated from this goat milking woman. I'm in no hurry to get through it, I'm enjoying the process and spend vast amounts of time referring to earlier pages to make sure I'm tracking properly. This is a highly recommended read no matter where you come down on this subject.
July 9, 2022
Brilliant
I've yet to find anyone else able to so patiently and compassionately address the red pill's claims and explain why they are not only logically inconsistent, but also a direct barrier to the goals and ideals the red pill espouses.
I've yet to find anyone else able to so patiently and compassionately address the red pill's claims and explain why they are not only logically inconsistent, but also a direct barrier to the goals and ideals the red pill espouses.
June 2, 2022
Gonna be honest here, i really did not expect this book to exist... as much as i didn't realize how much I needed it to exist.
I've never really engaged actively with TheRedPill, I had heard of it in the past and decided to visit their subreddit (before it was rightfully purged)...but left quickly as I immediately encountered distasteful rhetoric towards women. However, my interest was not entirely extinguished; it just devolved into a passive interest.
I then kept hearing about the RedPill ideology through other means, for instance political streamers discussing the topic and video essays.
It's still very difficult to understand what TheRedPill exactly stands for, because their beliefs are not encompassed by a text; they do not have a manifesto or a standardized set of rules to follow. Nothing. The closest thing I found to a "manifesto" was a summary of the Redpill's ideas on Incelpedia.com ... but i don't know how attendable that website is. The best way to comprehend their core values is probably to just read what they say on their forums for a long time, if you can hold your sanity in the process that is.
And this is where I think the book shines.
It's surprisingly well researched and appears to grasp the concepts of the RedPill community quite effectively.
This book also mantains a fair and balanced approach towards the RP ideology, condemning some of their ideas while also praising others; in different proportions obviously but still impressively sober.
The author doesn't seem to be afraid of admitting when redpillers are correct. I'll admit it too. Some solutions offered by the Redpill are not completely far fetched from reality, problem being that sometimes those solutions are served with an intoxicating amount of unnecessary misogyny. This book manages to surgically separate The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of the TheRedPill ideology with impressive finesse. A must-buy if you are interested in men's liberation.
I've never really engaged actively with TheRedPill, I had heard of it in the past and decided to visit their subreddit (before it was rightfully purged)...but left quickly as I immediately encountered distasteful rhetoric towards women. However, my interest was not entirely extinguished; it just devolved into a passive interest.
I then kept hearing about the RedPill ideology through other means, for instance political streamers discussing the topic and video essays.
It's still very difficult to understand what TheRedPill exactly stands for, because their beliefs are not encompassed by a text; they do not have a manifesto or a standardized set of rules to follow. Nothing. The closest thing I found to a "manifesto" was a summary of the Redpill's ideas on Incelpedia.com ... but i don't know how attendable that website is. The best way to comprehend their core values is probably to just read what they say on their forums for a long time, if you can hold your sanity in the process that is.
And this is where I think the book shines.
It's surprisingly well researched and appears to grasp the concepts of the RedPill community quite effectively.
This book also mantains a fair and balanced approach towards the RP ideology, condemning some of their ideas while also praising others; in different proportions obviously but still impressively sober.
The author doesn't seem to be afraid of admitting when redpillers are correct. I'll admit it too. Some solutions offered by the Redpill are not completely far fetched from reality, problem being that sometimes those solutions are served with an intoxicating amount of unnecessary misogyny. This book manages to surgically separate The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of the TheRedPill ideology with impressive finesse. A must-buy if you are interested in men's liberation.
June 8, 2022
As a former subscriber to Red Pill/PUA ideology, I wish I had this book back then. The book, while a little bit disorganized by being very continuous in its sequential breaking down/debunking of Red Pill myths, does a good job using both scientific evidence and clear logic to prove these borderline superstitious beliefs wrong.
I especially appreciated the "plot twist" where the takes a turn from being calculating and logical in its discourse to opening up emotionally and telling men what they really need to hear and what they can expect from women if they take its advice, which is very sweet and is exactly what I needed to hear at the time.
This shift is something all Red Pill men can benefit from. Would recommend to anyone deeply inside or recovering from the ideology.
I especially appreciated the "plot twist" where the takes a turn from being calculating and logical in its discourse to opening up emotionally and telling men what they really need to hear and what they can expect from women if they take its advice, which is very sweet and is exactly what I needed to hear at the time.
This shift is something all Red Pill men can benefit from. Would recommend to anyone deeply inside or recovering from the ideology.
June 26, 2022
Cynthia Payne does a deep dive into the red pill and a little bit into the rest of the manosphere such as men's rights issues. She brings her own life experiences into the discussion, and she offers her own perspective on various red pill tenants. She discusses various research and sociological evidence. It's hard to prove sociological ideologies as every person is different. What may be true for one person is different from another. However, it is definitely interesting to read a women's perspective on the topic and she is very fair and rigorous in her analysis.
If you want a women's perspective on the red pill dating tips and techniques this is the book for you however as stated earlier in this review she only briefly touches on men's rights topics. Maybe a sequel :)
If you want a women's perspective on the red pill dating tips and techniques this is the book for you however as stated earlier in this review she only briefly touches on men's rights topics. Maybe a sequel :)
June 8, 2022
I have never subscribed to the Red Pill theories around dating, sex, and relationships, because my everyday experience and observation shows Red Pill ideology to be untrue. But anecdote isn't data! This book dives into the "science" behind the ideology, peeling back the layers to find the core, and uses actual science to explore how these ideas arose, and what the truth may be, with references to peer-reviewed studies and historical works throughout.
Can human relationships be qualified through a scientific lens? Maybe I'm a romantic, but I don't think so. But this book does a better job of it than the ideologies it unpacks.
Can human relationships be qualified through a scientific lens? Maybe I'm a romantic, but I don't think so. But this book does a better job of it than the ideologies it unpacks.
June 7, 2022
This book was really insightful because I wanted to find some scientific evidence why Red Pill scientific justifications do not work without left-wing or right-wing propaganda. I'm glad I stumbled upon this book since it allowed me to have a critical outlook on some of the beliefs I held, as well as curious about how radical beliefs could be neutralized & deradicalized. For those who want to learn about challenging opinions, and for those who want to leave the Red Pill / incel mindset/rabbit hole, this book is a great read.
June 7, 2022
Fantastic read. Very educational, non-judgemental, and overall an enlightening experience. This book is for everyone, but I felt it to be especially enlightening for those of us whom have seen misogyny and red-pilled men second-hand. Those who knew what the incel community was, knew it was wrong, but couldn't fully verbalize why we knew this. I must recommend this book to everyone that has ever heard the term. It is absolutely stunning and logical.
June 13, 2022
Here is your resource for talking with Red Pilled/Black Pilled family and friends. Payne has performed extensive research in the Manosphere and identified the major tropes and myths that underpin the ideas. Each myth and trope is then addressed with attention to detail and with a scientific approach.
June 17, 2022
10/10 book, uses scientific studies from multiple fields to show why all of red pill's claims are not true.
June 10, 2022
**ARC received in exchange for honest review.**
I haven’t finished so this will be a quick review for what I think so far.
Cynthia makes a lot of solid points that will undoubtedly challenge a persons way of thinking, I love that. Anytime I go “crap, I never thought of it like that,” is a good time.
I feel the writing is a bit all over the place but can still be followed.
That’s it for now, will update as I read! 🙂
I haven’t finished so this will be a quick review for what I think so far.
Cynthia makes a lot of solid points that will undoubtedly challenge a persons way of thinking, I love that. Anytime I go “crap, I never thought of it like that,” is a good time.
I feel the writing is a bit all over the place but can still be followed.
That’s it for now, will update as I read! 🙂
September 28, 2022
Livro fantástico , acho que todos deveriam ler pelo menos uma vez na vida
January 1, 2024
Amazing book that outlines & debunks common 'red pill' claims about dating & females in general.
Displaying 1 - 15 of 15 reviews