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Los siete contra Tebas
Seven Against Thebes written by Aeschylus (525-456 BC), the oldest of the three famous ancient Greek writers of tragedy whose work has survived, is the third play in a trilogy which tells the story of the battle between the sons of Oedipus for control of Thebes (the other two plays are lost). The first production (in 467 BC) won first prize in the annual competition for tragic drama.
In the play, Eteocles, king of Thebes, is defending the city against the forces fighting on behalf of his brother Polyneices, and he is called upon to choose seven of his best warriors to defend the city gates. Much of the play celebrates the traditional warrior ethic from the Trojan War and earlier, but it also contrasts this with a more civic-minded concern for the safety of the entire polis, rather than for the glory that comes with heroic individuality in the
face of danger.
Central to the play is the character of Eteocles, who, as king of Thebes, is responsible for the well being of the city but who, as a son of Oedipus, is obsessed by the nature of the curse upon his family and the need to assert his own heroic qualities, even though that will bring about his death and continue the series of disasters which have afflicted Thebes since the days of Laius and Jocasta, the parents of Oedipus.
The play is remarkable for the formal patterning of the speeches, the moving quality of its lyrics, and the sense it conveys of human life lived out under the watchful and ominous scrutiny of the divine forces which rule the world.
In the play, Eteocles, king of Thebes, is defending the city against the forces fighting on behalf of his brother Polyneices, and he is called upon to choose seven of his best warriors to defend the city gates. Much of the play celebrates the traditional warrior ethic from the Trojan War and earlier, but it also contrasts this with a more civic-minded concern for the safety of the entire polis, rather than for the glory that comes with heroic individuality in the
face of danger.
Central to the play is the character of Eteocles, who, as king of Thebes, is responsible for the well being of the city but who, as a son of Oedipus, is obsessed by the nature of the curse upon his family and the need to assert his own heroic qualities, even though that will bring about his death and continue the series of disasters which have afflicted Thebes since the days of Laius and Jocasta, the parents of Oedipus.
The play is remarkable for the formal patterning of the speeches, the moving quality of its lyrics, and the sense it conveys of human life lived out under the watchful and ominous scrutiny of the divine forces which rule the world.
68 pages, Kindle Edition
First published January 1, 468
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November 23, 2023
Краткость этой пьесы компенсируется отсылками к мифу об Этеокле и Полинике, проклятых их отцом Эдипом, и поэтому те, кто знаком с пьесами Софокла "Эдип", "Эдип в Колоне", "Антигона" могут рассматривать эту пьесу, как продолжение или предшествующий (для "Антигоны") сюжет. Между тем, действия на сцене, как такового практически не происходит. Семеро вождей согласились выступить против Фив, чтобы восстановить на престоле Полиника, сместив его брата, отказавшегося уйти добровольно, согласно договоренности.
Пафос кощунственности братоубийственной войны, войны из-за власти, переплетается с героической патетикой и плачем о горьких утратах. Этеокл - противоречивый герой, его роль драматически сложна. Он испытывает одновременно "стыд и горе сразу - злой удел" из-за того, чтобы сохранить свою власть над Фивами ему придется убить брата и быть убитым им. Он заранее знает об исходе боя, он знает о проклятии отца, он знает о неизбежности этой судьбы. Отказаться от власти - это выше его сил, хотя для этого есть и пусть и устный, но договор. Легче убить брата и умереть самому - вот уж поистине трагедия.
Историческое значение этой пьесы в том, что Этеокл - первый драматический персонаж в истории драматургии. Кроме того, именно в этой пьесе начинается преобладание ролей актеров над хоровой частью.
Пафос кощунственности братоубийственной войны, войны из-за власти, переплетается с героической патетикой и плачем о горьких утратах. Этеокл - противоречивый герой, его роль драматически сложна. Он испытывает одновременно "стыд и горе сразу - злой удел" из-за того, чтобы сохранить свою власть над Фивами ему придется убить брата и быть убитым им. Он заранее знает об исходе боя, он знает о проклятии отца, он знает о неизбежности этой судьбы. Отказаться от власти - это выше его сил, хотя для этого есть и пусть и устный, но договор. Легче убить брата и умереть самому - вот уж поистине трагедия.
Историческое значение этой пьесы в том, что Этеокл - первый драматический персонаж в истории драматургии. Кроме того, именно в этой пьесе начинается преобладание ролей актеров над хоровой частью.
October 4, 2018
When a curse arising from an ancient oracle
Falls due, the settlement is heavy.
3 1/2
This is the second of seven plays by Aeschylus which have survived. It was written around 467 BC.
It was probably not given this name when first performed in Athens. The Athenians were sort of pissed off at Thebes at this time, since a dozen years before it was produced, Thebes had provided a force which fought on the side of the Persians at the Battle of Plataea. In the play itself Thebes is not mentioned – rather its called Cadmea, after Cadmus, the founder of Thebes.
The play was originally written as the third part of a trilogy, the first two being Laius and Oedipus.
the backstory
Laius was the great-grandson of Cadmus. When he was king of Thebes the Oracle of Delphi prophesied to him that if he had a male child, the child would slay him and marry his wife. Laius and his wife Jocasta did in fact have a son, but they feared the prophesy and arranged that the babe should be left in the mountains to die.
Well, stuff happens. The child did not die, and grew up to be a man called Oedipus. You may know the story. Oedipus, through a strange series of events, did kill Laius (not knowing who he was), and eventually did marry Jocasta (neither of them knowing what they were doing – giving the world the term "Oedipus complex"). Four children issued from them, two sons (Polyneices and Eteocles) and two daughters (Antigone and Ismene).
Eventually more events transpire, which leads to Oedipus and Jocasta learning their blood relationship - Jocasta, that her husband is her son, that their children are her grandchildren … you get the idea. Oedipus blinds himself as contrition for the horrible crime he has unknowingly committed; Jocasta kills herself. There are different versions of what followed. Some say Oedipus was banished, or banished himself; some say he lived on in the palace as his children grew up. One way or another, Oedipus became enraged at the sons at some point, and cursed them, to the effect that they would die at each other's hands. It's here in the legend that Oedipus invokes the Erinyes to assure that the curse will be carried out. See below for a comment on the Erinyes.
Eventually Oedipus died in foreign lands, still attended by Antigone.
When the sons reached the age of majority they argued about who would rule, the younger, Eteocles, won out, and Polyneices took refuge in Argos, from where he decided to wage war on Thebes.
That's the situation when the play starts.
the play
Much of the play isn't all that interesting. It is 1078 lines long. Almost 2/3 of it is occupied with (for us) a pretty boring listing of the six invading chieftains who have been selected to assault six gates of Thebes, and who Polyneices will select to oppose them. The armour of each attacker is described in detail, the boastfulness and blood lust of each of them is laid out, all with commentary by Polyneices, who invokes the gods to help Thebes defend against the unholy attack.
In all this there is a chorus, which has about half the lines. These are women, who are lamenting the attack, and emphasize their great fear at what will happen to them if (when?) the attackers win the city. Polyneices repeatedly basically tells the women to shut up and stop wailing, instead be brave, trust in the gods and their own heroes to defend the city. This is repeated as each of the six gates are mentioned.
The play get's more interesting when Polyneices is told that the seventh gate will be assaulted by his brother. So I'll let the description go at this point (no spoilers).
The appearance of Oedipus' daughters near the end of the play adds additional interest. However, ancient sources tell us that Aeschylus did not write this section of the play, it was added decades later for reasons apparently associated with the popularity of Sophocles play Antigone. The translator tells us that we have no way of knowing how the last section of the play was actually composed by Aeschylus, hence there's nothing to do but simply translate what we have – even though we know it's not accurate.
the edition I have is the Penguin Classics edition, containing four plays: this one, Prometheus Bound, The Suppliants and The Persians. The translator was Philip Vellacott, who also writes a good Introduction and supplies very useful end-notes to specific words, phrases, and references in the plays.
the Erinyes
Mention of the Erinyes recalled to me the sixth book of Anthony Powell's Dance to the Music of Time - The Kindly Ones. The Greek Eumenides ("the gracious ones" or "the kindly ones") was another name for the Erinyes, an example of an oft-repeated idea in ancient cultures to bestow an alternative name on fearsome deities which would allow mention of them without giving voice to the original name, in order to ward off bad fortune.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Previous review: Main Street
Next review: Pyramid
Older review: The Scandals of Clochemerle
Previous library review: The Persians
Next library review: Prometheus Bound both by Aeschylus
Falls due, the settlement is heavy.
3 1/2
This is the second of seven plays by Aeschylus which have survived. It was written around 467 BC.
It was probably not given this name when first performed in Athens. The Athenians were sort of pissed off at Thebes at this time, since a dozen years before it was produced, Thebes had provided a force which fought on the side of the Persians at the Battle of Plataea. In the play itself Thebes is not mentioned – rather its called Cadmea, after Cadmus, the founder of Thebes.
The play was originally written as the third part of a trilogy, the first two being Laius and Oedipus.
the backstory
Laius was the great-grandson of Cadmus. When he was king of Thebes the Oracle of Delphi prophesied to him that if he had a male child, the child would slay him and marry his wife. Laius and his wife Jocasta did in fact have a son, but they feared the prophesy and arranged that the babe should be left in the mountains to die.
Well, stuff happens. The child did not die, and grew up to be a man called Oedipus. You may know the story. Oedipus, through a strange series of events, did kill Laius (not knowing who he was), and eventually did marry Jocasta (neither of them knowing what they were doing – giving the world the term "Oedipus complex"). Four children issued from them, two sons (Polyneices and Eteocles) and two daughters (Antigone and Ismene).
Eventually more events transpire, which leads to Oedipus and Jocasta learning their blood relationship - Jocasta, that her husband is her son, that their children are her grandchildren … you get the idea. Oedipus blinds himself as contrition for the horrible crime he has unknowingly committed; Jocasta kills herself. There are different versions of what followed. Some say Oedipus was banished, or banished himself; some say he lived on in the palace as his children grew up. One way or another, Oedipus became enraged at the sons at some point, and cursed them, to the effect that they would die at each other's hands. It's here in the legend that Oedipus invokes the Erinyes to assure that the curse will be carried out. See below for a comment on the Erinyes.
Eventually Oedipus died in foreign lands, still attended by Antigone.
When the sons reached the age of majority they argued about who would rule, the younger, Eteocles, won out, and Polyneices took refuge in Argos, from where he decided to wage war on Thebes.
That's the situation when the play starts.
the play
Much of the play isn't all that interesting. It is 1078 lines long. Almost 2/3 of it is occupied with (for us) a pretty boring listing of the six invading chieftains who have been selected to assault six gates of Thebes, and who Polyneices will select to oppose them. The armour of each attacker is described in detail, the boastfulness and blood lust of each of them is laid out, all with commentary by Polyneices, who invokes the gods to help Thebes defend against the unholy attack.
In all this there is a chorus, which has about half the lines. These are women, who are lamenting the attack, and emphasize their great fear at what will happen to them if (when?) the attackers win the city. Polyneices repeatedly basically tells the women to shut up and stop wailing, instead be brave, trust in the gods and their own heroes to defend the city. This is repeated as each of the six gates are mentioned.
The play get's more interesting when Polyneices is told that the seventh gate will be assaulted by his brother. So I'll let the description go at this point (no spoilers).
The appearance of Oedipus' daughters near the end of the play adds additional interest. However, ancient sources tell us that Aeschylus did not write this section of the play, it was added decades later for reasons apparently associated with the popularity of Sophocles play Antigone. The translator tells us that we have no way of knowing how the last section of the play was actually composed by Aeschylus, hence there's nothing to do but simply translate what we have – even though we know it's not accurate.
the edition I have is the Penguin Classics edition, containing four plays: this one, Prometheus Bound, The Suppliants and The Persians. The translator was Philip Vellacott, who also writes a good Introduction and supplies very useful end-notes to specific words, phrases, and references in the plays.
the Erinyes
Mention of the Erinyes recalled to me the sixth book of Anthony Powell's Dance to the Music of Time - The Kindly Ones. The Greek Eumenides ("the gracious ones" or "the kindly ones") was another name for the Erinyes, an example of an oft-repeated idea in ancient cultures to bestow an alternative name on fearsome deities which would allow mention of them without giving voice to the original name, in order to ward off bad fortune.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Previous review: Main Street
Next review: Pyramid
Older review: The Scandals of Clochemerle
Previous library review: The Persians
Next library review: Prometheus Bound both by Aeschylus
May 17, 2017
Poor Polynices and Eteocles, though to be honest, Eteocles is an asshat. The whole thing was just...
So, yeah. Basically cursed by their grandfather, Laius for disobeying Apollo, and compounded by their father, Oedipus--Yikes! You knew it wasn't going to end well. Antigone is still my girl, gotta reread it.
Best part of this one were the cool descriptions of the Argives' shields--SWEET! Some awesome designs.
So, yeah. Basically cursed by their grandfather, Laius for disobeying Apollo, and compounded by their father, Oedipus--Yikes! You knew it wasn't going to end well. Antigone is still my girl, gotta reread it.
HERALD
I forbid you to act thus in violation of the city.
ANTIGONE
I forbid you to make useless proclamations to me.
Best part of this one were the cool descriptions of the Argives' shields--SWEET! Some awesome designs.
February 3, 2017
Η αγωνία του χορού για την επικείμενη πολιορκία της πόλης είναι μεταδοτική και δημιουργεί αίσθημα μεγάλης στεναχώριας,ειδικά αν σκεφτεί κανείς ότι υπάρχουν άνθρωποι που και σήμερα νιώθουν την ίδια αγωνία και φόβο. Αυτός ο φόβος, που αποτυπώνεται τόσο εύγλωττα, είναι κι ο λόγος της υψηλής βαθμολογίας.
September 29, 2024
نصف این نمایشنامه تحقیر زنان همسرا بهخاطر ترسیدنشونه و نصف دیگهش آه و واویلا. منم که دارم فکر میکنم چرا تمام دعواها و دراماهای یونانی سر احمقانهترین مسائل پیش میاد که به راحتی میشه جلوشون رو گرفت. ترجمه همچنان خوب بود و مقدمهی خوبی داشت.
October 3, 2021
Edip je jedan nesrećan lik. Mislim, ono što mu se desilo, pogotovo što je uradio SVE da mu se to i ne desi... Uglavnom, nakon svega iz Sofoklovog trilera Car Edip, sinovi Eteoklo i Polinik su ga prognali iz Tebe, a ovaj ih je tada prokleo da ubiju jedan drugog. Jedno vreme žive složno, ali naravno, kletva ima u vreme starih Grka snagu - pa se posvađaju. Polinik ode svom tastu i zatraži vojsku da pokori Tebu. Tu počinje tragedija.
Grad odoleva, ali ginu oba brata, ipak je ovo antička tragedija... Donose njihova tela, svi su tužni, međutim Sedmorica protiv Tebe imaju život i nakon smrti njenog autora. Navodno je zbog ogromne popularnosti Sofoklove Antigone, kraj iznova napisan i to 50 godina nakon što je Eshil umro. Kraj je sad napisan kao uvod u poznatiji komad, pa je sad tu Antigona, koja kaže:
"Glavarim' kadmejskima kažem ovo ja:
Pokopat ne bude li nitko htio ga,
A ono ja ću! Svu opasnost prezret ću,
Sahranit brata svog ću - nije mene stid,
Što prkosom ću evo gradu prkosit."
Čitam tragedije, jednu po jednu, i pravim listu. Jednostavno volim liste. Ovo je moj festival grčke tragedije, za jednog gledaoca:
Festival grčke tragedije
1. Car Edip (Sofokle)
2. Ifigenija u Aulidi (Euripid)
3. Agamemnon (Eshil)
4. Antigona (Sofokle)
5. Eumenide (Eshil)
6. Bahantkinje (Euripid)
7. Hipolit (Euripid)
8. Pokajnice (Eshil)
9. Pribjegarke (Eshil)
10. Ifigenija na Tauridi (Euripid)
11. Edip na Kolonu (Sofokle)
12. Sedmorica Protiv Tebe (Eshil)
Grad odoleva, ali ginu oba brata, ipak je ovo antička tragedija... Donose njihova tela, svi su tužni, međutim Sedmorica protiv Tebe imaju život i nakon smrti njenog autora. Navodno je zbog ogromne popularnosti Sofoklove Antigone, kraj iznova napisan i to 50 godina nakon što je Eshil umro. Kraj je sad napisan kao uvod u poznatiji komad, pa je sad tu Antigona, koja kaže:
"Glavarim' kadmejskima kažem ovo ja:
Pokopat ne bude li nitko htio ga,
A ono ja ću! Svu opasnost prezret ću,
Sahranit brata svog ću - nije mene stid,
Što prkosom ću evo gradu prkosit."
Čitam tragedije, jednu po jednu, i pravim listu. Jednostavno volim liste. Ovo je moj festival grčke tragedije, za jednog gledaoca:
Festival grčke tragedije
1. Car Edip (Sofokle)
2. Ifigenija u Aulidi (Euripid)
3. Agamemnon (Eshil)
4. Antigona (Sofokle)
5. Eumenide (Eshil)
6. Bahantkinje (Euripid)
7. Hipolit (Euripid)
8. Pokajnice (Eshil)
9. Pribjegarke (Eshil)
10. Ifigenija na Tauridi (Euripid)
11. Edip na Kolonu (Sofokle)
12. Sedmorica Protiv Tebe (Eshil)
September 29, 2023
The translation I read is from https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/... Its layout is not the easiest to read but the translation is easy to follow.
This is very different approach from Euripides’s The Phoenician Women, which covers the same ground. This one is dated 60 years earlier.
The play dramatizes the war on Thebes when one brother breaks his promise to rule Thebes in turn. The brothers are the sons of Oedipus; the curse that plagued him continues to his sons.
Reading this play is more informative than entertaining, what I enjoyed the most is that it gave me a little bit more insight of those times.
And I think I’m getting more used to reading these plays, as I also noticed more differences between Euripides and Aeschylus’s style.
This is very different approach from Euripides’s The Phoenician Women, which covers the same ground. This one is dated 60 years earlier.
The play dramatizes the war on Thebes when one brother breaks his promise to rule Thebes in turn. The brothers are the sons of Oedipus; the curse that plagued him continues to his sons.
Reading this play is more informative than entertaining, what I enjoyed the most is that it gave me a little bit more insight of those times.
And I think I’m getting more used to reading these plays, as I also noticed more differences between Euripides and Aeschylus’s style.
March 14, 2026
Continuación de la tragedia de Edipo. Ahora asistimos al cumplimiento de la maldición que éste lanzó sobre sus dos hijos, Eteocles y Polinices, que se disputaban el trono de Tebas después de que Edipo fuera desterrado por Polinices.
Esta obra, a diferencia de las de Sófocles, tiene un estilo más lírico y simbólico, su fuerte es el verso y el lenguaje, y los símbolos que sugieren cada parte de las siete puertas de Tebas que son atacadas por siete capitanes que comandan un ejército de argivos, uno de ellos, Polinices, quien organizó el ataque. Esto porque Eteocles no quiso dejar el trono y su hermano consideraba que al ser el mayor, éste le pertenecía. Así que es una especie de capítulo por cada puerta, hasta que se llega a la última, cuyo ataque está comandado por el mismo Polinices. Eteocles decide enfrentarlo.
Lo siguiente es un mensajero anunciando la muerte de ambos hermanos atravesados uno por la espada del otro, con lo que hay una elipsis que salta el combate entre los hermanos. Según algunos expertos, aquí terminaría la tragedia, pero hay otro final que podría haber sido añadido después para empatarla con la obra de Sófocles. Y es ahí en donde entra Antígona y su hermana que pronuncian lo que hoy es un célebre refrán: "quien a hierro mata a hierro muere".
Por haber sido rey en funciones, Eteocles debe ser enterrado con honores, mientras que Polinices, por el asedio a Tebas, deberá ser dejado a las fieras y aves de rapiña. Antígona se opone y decide que enterrará a su hermano a pesar de todas las advertencias. Y así da pie a la próxima tragedia de Sófocles.
Cabe decir que Esquilo era el dramaturgo más laureado de Atenas hasta que llegó Sófocles y ganó todos los premios. Tienen dos estilos muy diferentes. Esta obra estilísticamente está más cercana a la Ilíada; de hecho, en la Ilíada aparecen como guerreros en el asedio a Troya los hijos de tres de los siete contra Tebas, uno de ellos, Diomedes, el más célebre, quien fuera hijo de Tideo.
Esta obra, a diferencia de las de Sófocles, tiene un estilo más lírico y simbólico, su fuerte es el verso y el lenguaje, y los símbolos que sugieren cada parte de las siete puertas de Tebas que son atacadas por siete capitanes que comandan un ejército de argivos, uno de ellos, Polinices, quien organizó el ataque. Esto porque Eteocles no quiso dejar el trono y su hermano consideraba que al ser el mayor, éste le pertenecía. Así que es una especie de capítulo por cada puerta, hasta que se llega a la última, cuyo ataque está comandado por el mismo Polinices. Eteocles decide enfrentarlo.
Lo siguiente es un mensajero anunciando la muerte de ambos hermanos atravesados uno por la espada del otro, con lo que hay una elipsis que salta el combate entre los hermanos. Según algunos expertos, aquí terminaría la tragedia, pero hay otro final que podría haber sido añadido después para empatarla con la obra de Sófocles. Y es ahí en donde entra Antígona y su hermana que pronuncian lo que hoy es un célebre refrán: "quien a hierro mata a hierro muere".
Por haber sido rey en funciones, Eteocles debe ser enterrado con honores, mientras que Polinices, por el asedio a Tebas, deberá ser dejado a las fieras y aves de rapiña. Antígona se opone y decide que enterrará a su hermano a pesar de todas las advertencias. Y así da pie a la próxima tragedia de Sófocles.
Cabe decir que Esquilo era el dramaturgo más laureado de Atenas hasta que llegó Sófocles y ganó todos los premios. Tienen dos estilos muy diferentes. Esta obra estilísticamente está más cercana a la Ilíada; de hecho, en la Ilíada aparecen como guerreros en el asedio a Troya los hijos de tres de los siete contra Tebas, uno de ellos, Diomedes, el más célebre, quien fuera hijo de Tideo.
May 29, 2021
Esta peça é a terceira e única que chegou até nossos dias da Tetralogia que incluía também Laio, Édipo, e A Esfinge (temos Édipo Rei, mas de Sófocles)
Toda a tetralogia gira em torno da maldição da família dos Labdácias que governavam Tebas, segundo a qual somente a morte de seus descendentes poderia salvar a cidade da destruição.
O óraculo aconselha o rei Laio a não ter filhos com sua mulher Jocasta, pois o filho o mataria e casaria com a sua mãe.
Eles têm um filho mesmo assim, Édipo, que ao nascer é afastado de Tebas para evitar a profecia. Já adulto e sem saber quem eram seus pais, Édipo mata Laio, livra Tebas da ameaça da Esfinge e se casa com sua mãe Jocasta virando assim rei de Tebas. Eles têm dois filhos e duas filhas.
Quando descobre a verdade, Jocasta se mata. Édipo por sua vez cega os próprios olhos e lança uma maldição sobre os filhos: eles lutariam até a morte pelo trono.
Aqui começa nosso livro, os dois irmãos brigam, Éteocles assume o governo de Tebas e Polinices foge para Argos de onde volta com mais seis grandes guerreiros para atacar Tebas em cada uma de suas 7 portas.
Toda a tetralogia gira em torno da maldição da família dos Labdácias que governavam Tebas, segundo a qual somente a morte de seus descendentes poderia salvar a cidade da destruição.
O óraculo aconselha o rei Laio a não ter filhos com sua mulher Jocasta, pois o filho o mataria e casaria com a sua mãe.
Eles têm um filho mesmo assim, Édipo, que ao nascer é afastado de Tebas para evitar a profecia. Já adulto e sem saber quem eram seus pais, Édipo mata Laio, livra Tebas da ameaça da Esfinge e se casa com sua mãe Jocasta virando assim rei de Tebas. Eles têm dois filhos e duas filhas.
Quando descobre a verdade, Jocasta se mata. Édipo por sua vez cega os próprios olhos e lança uma maldição sobre os filhos: eles lutariam até a morte pelo trono.
Aqui começa nosso livro, os dois irmãos brigam, Éteocles assume o governo de Tebas e Polinices foge para Argos de onde volta com mais seis grandes guerreiros para atacar Tebas em cada uma de suas 7 portas.
July 24, 2024
تراژدی های یونانی سده ۵ ق.م همیشه من رو شگفت زده میکنن.هر نمایشنامه ای که میخونم رو تا حالا دوست داشتم به نحوی.
فقط سه تا نمایشنامه مونده که تموم بشه این تراژدی ها.
این نمایشنامه رو با ترجمه آقای کوثری میتونید بخونید .
خیلی کوتاهه به نسبت بقیه ی نمایشنامه های اشیل ولی من دوسش داشتم.راجع به پهلوانی حرف میزنه و ۷ دروازه وجود داره که ۷ نفر نگهبان اون هستن .
اگه این نمایشنامه رو خوندید بعدش میتونید نمایشنامه آنتیگونه سوفوکل رو بخونید. (آنتیگونه خیلی خفنه.)
اولین اجرا اون برای سال ۴۶۷ بوده و تریلوژی بوده ولی خب دو قسمتِ همه ی تریلوژی ها از بین رفته جز اورستیا.
به نظرم اول باید اودیپ شهریارِ سوفوکل رو بخونید تا بدونید داستان دراماتیک اودیپ چیه ، که بعد بتونید ببینید قضیه نفرین در مخالفان هفتگانه تب چیه.
فقط سه تا نمایشنامه مونده که تموم بشه این تراژدی ها.
این نمایشنامه رو با ترجمه آقای کوثری میتونید بخونید .
خیلی کوتاهه به نسبت بقیه ی نمایشنامه های اشیل ولی من دوسش داشتم.راجع به پهلوانی حرف میزنه و ۷ دروازه وجود داره که ۷ نفر نگهبان اون هستن .
اگه این نمایشنامه رو خوندید بعدش میتونید نمایشنامه آنتیگونه سوفوکل رو بخونید. (آنتیگونه خیلی خفنه.)
اولین اجرا اون برای سال ۴۶۷ بوده و تریلوژی بوده ولی خب دو قسمتِ همه ی تریلوژی ها از بین رفته جز اورستیا.
به نظرم اول باید اودیپ شهریارِ سوفوکل رو بخونید تا بدونید داستان دراماتیک اودیپ چیه ، که بعد بتونید ببینید قضیه نفرین در مخالفان هفتگانه تب چیه.
February 2, 2024
I'm dying for the Theban Cicle (Sofocles+ Aeschylus=💫Masterpiece💫)
October 10, 2014
The Seven Against Thebes is a play centered around the prelude to the attack on Thebes by seven warlords, including one of Oedipus' sons. I like to think of it as a prequel to Antigone; in fact, I think I could throw this play in with the Theban plays of Sophocles even though it was a different playwright who wrote it. That being said, if this play is read before the Theban plays, it ties in very, very well.
I didn't think that this was Aeschylus' best play ever- in fact, it is one of the weaker ones that I have read by him in comparison to the brilliant Oresteia trilogy. However, it is still a very clever play that is about one of the most famous stories of Greek mythology. Having read Antigone before, I was very fascinated to actually be able to tell what kind of people the brothers of Antigone are and what the drive is for them to kill each other so brutally. By the end of this play, I was very surprised at the clean tie-in the conclusion would make to the beginning of Antigone. I would highly recommend reading this after Oedipus at Colonus and before Antigone.
I didn't think that this was Aeschylus' best play ever- in fact, it is one of the weaker ones that I have read by him in comparison to the brilliant Oresteia trilogy. However, it is still a very clever play that is about one of the most famous stories of Greek mythology. Having read Antigone before, I was very fascinated to actually be able to tell what kind of people the brothers of Antigone are and what the drive is for them to kill each other so brutally. By the end of this play, I was very surprised at the clean tie-in the conclusion would make to the beginning of Antigone. I would highly recommend reading this after Oedipus at Colonus and before Antigone.
May 25, 2020
FRATELLI COLTELLI
Alcuni dicono che questi qua sopra siano proprio Eteocle, il vecchio, e Polinice il giovanotto. Comunque sia una meraviglia, una sindrome di Stendhal assicurata.
La tragedia non ha nel titolo il nome di Eteocle, famosissimo personaggio della saga dei Labdacidi, che avrebbe richiamato in massa gli spettatori: una storia truculenta di “fratelli /coltelli”, miti fondatori immancabili delle grandi civiltà mediterranee, di cui è il principale protagonista.
Perché Eschilo sceglie il titolo più difficile da comprendere, “I sette contro Tebe”?
Sette eroi non certo sconosciuti al grande pubblico di allora, navigati cultori di racconti mitici, ma non di grande appeal.
Ma basta riflettere: nel titolo c’è il tema senza il quale la storia non sarebbe andata nella direzione che conosciamo: la Hybris di Eteocle e del suo gemello Polinice come quella esibita dai sei eroi argivi che la sorte assegnerà all'assalto delle porte di Tebe. Gli eroi del pantheon greco sono giovani e belli ma parecchio menefreghisti delle regole gerarchiche. Loro agli dei maggiori gli danno del tu e dei loro anatemi non si curano.
Non solo il titolo ma anche la messa in scena è particolare. Immagino la meraviglia degli spettatori alla prima, quando degli strombazzati Sette non si vede nemmeno l’ombra: solo nomi, scudi, destinazione alle porte quando la battaglia inizierà, elencate dal messaggero e da Eteocle.
Dietro le quinte passi di marcia, grida di guerra, canglore di lance battute sugli scudi arrivano alle orecchie degli spettatori come a quelle di Eteocle e delle fanciulle del coro sulla scena.
L’espediente non è da poco: gli argivi rimangono sì sullo sfondo ma come un'ombra inquietante e minacciosa fuori le mura di Tebe come nella fortezza Bastiani.
Le fanciulle tebane, quelle che affollano il coro, sentono e scorgono da lontano l’esercito invasore e vanno in tilt: la paura scatena isteria di massa, diremmo noi moderni.
Eschilo uomo pio e, come avrebbero detto i romani, un ottimate (non so se per ceto ma sicuramente per vocazione) e noi un cattolico illuminato, era evidentemente attratto da personaggi difficilissimi da piegare ai suoi principi, dio, patria e famiglia che, naturalmente, nella stesura gli sfuggivano di mano: un Dostoevskij del V sec. a.C.?
Il mito di Eteocle l’avrebbe, infatti, dovuto mettere in allarme: il giovanotto non era poi quell'acqua di rocca necessaria a costruire un eroe senza macchia e senza paura, salvatore della Patria in nome della giustizia quella che lui stesso aveva calpestato negando al fratello Polinice l’avvicendamento al regno di Tebe, come convenuto.
Così come, all'inverso, l’avrebbe dovuto frenare l’impresa impossibile di trasformare Agamennone, un gran pezzo di m…a, nella povera vittima dell’invasata Clitennestra, in realtà vera vittima (a cui va la mia più grande solidarietà). Come Eteocle anche Clitennestra porta a discolpa del suo uxoricidio il destino fatale che perseguita le loro famiglie: non sono stati che lo strumento delle maledizioni divine e del fato. La profezia che si avvera.
Più della colpa, però, è la predestinazione che interessa Eschilo: dove inizia la “profezia divina” che preme per avverarsi e dove finisce la responsabilità personale che le si oppone. Così il benpensante, un po’ baciapile e destrorso Eschilo, nonché genio assoluto, è costretto a fare i conti con il groviglio di bene e male che è l’uomo costretto ad appellarsi al destino quando il caso o la mancanza di volontà non possono spiegare l’inimmaginabile di cui è stato vittima prima che carnefice.
Dice P.P.Pasolini: «i personaggi di Eschilo sono figure umanamente piene, contraddittorie, ricche, perennemente indefinite… ».
Eteocle è un eroe positivo quando entra in scena. Deve gestire ciò che anche lui ha provocato prima, ma nell’ora fatale non si può andare per il sottile.
È padrone della parola che deve guidare alla vittoria i tebani pena la perdita della città e dei suoi altari, i preferiti dagli dei su tutti quelli dell’Ellade. È il “conducator” che opporrà a gigante acheo eroe tebano alle sei porte riservandosi la settima per affrontare il gemello. È lui che terrà la barra a dritta nel mare in tempesta. Su di lui ricadranno tutte le colpe della disfatta mentre in caso di vittoria gli onori, giustamente, andranno agli dei. Saranno loro a guidarlo nell’estrema punizione al fratello che ha giurato di radere al suolo la città e devastarne i sacri altari. Grandioso, megalomane e sappiamo come andrà a finire.
Ma Eteocle non è da solo in scena: con lui c’è il coro di fanciulle in preda all'angoscia per ciò che le attende in caso di sconfitta: lo stupro e la schiavitù se non la pietosa morte.
Lo disturbano molto con i loro strepiti di donnette isteriche e con il loro correre qua e là come mosche impazzite gettandosi ai piedi degli dei anziché pregare in silenzio. Le zittisce, si scaglia contro di loro: “- ...genia intollerabile…che con l’affanno e l’urla diffondeste in città scorata viltà… nella sventura come in dolce fortuna mai io viva con razza femminile sotto il medesimo tetto…questi guadagni trai dal vivere con donne...È affare dell’uomo quanto avviene fuori casa; la donna non vi abbia a deliberare: chiusa all'interno, non provochi danni. Inteso o parlo a sorde? O Zeus, quale compagnia ci desti creando le donne!
Fa impressione sentire sempre le stesse parole che da millenni si ripetono uguali: alle donne il silenzio, agli uomini la parola. Alla donna la cura, all'uomo l’agorà.
Si può pensare che Eschilo non fosse misogino perché era così che andava allora la vita tra uomo e donna? Un fatto naturale?
Nutro i miei dubbi: il nostro genio (perché lo è) non avrebbe messo in scena una donna scatenata come Clitennestra, di tutt’altra pasta delle corifere: l’una aggressiva e volitiva usa le armi degli uomini per difendere le sue ragioni di donna tradita e offesa e le altre, giustamente spaventate, difendono la loro sensibilità e il loro rifiuto della violenza da donne diverse e uguali ai maschi.
E allora penso che Eschilo fosse coscientemente misogino, perché stretta non gli va e larga nemmeno.
Alcuni dicono che questi qua sopra siano proprio Eteocle, il vecchio, e Polinice il giovanotto. Comunque sia una meraviglia, una sindrome di Stendhal assicurata.
La tragedia non ha nel titolo il nome di Eteocle, famosissimo personaggio della saga dei Labdacidi, che avrebbe richiamato in massa gli spettatori: una storia truculenta di “fratelli /coltelli”, miti fondatori immancabili delle grandi civiltà mediterranee, di cui è il principale protagonista.
Perché Eschilo sceglie il titolo più difficile da comprendere, “I sette contro Tebe”?
Sette eroi non certo sconosciuti al grande pubblico di allora, navigati cultori di racconti mitici, ma non di grande appeal.
Ma basta riflettere: nel titolo c’è il tema senza il quale la storia non sarebbe andata nella direzione che conosciamo: la Hybris di Eteocle e del suo gemello Polinice come quella esibita dai sei eroi argivi che la sorte assegnerà all'assalto delle porte di Tebe. Gli eroi del pantheon greco sono giovani e belli ma parecchio menefreghisti delle regole gerarchiche. Loro agli dei maggiori gli danno del tu e dei loro anatemi non si curano.
Non solo il titolo ma anche la messa in scena è particolare. Immagino la meraviglia degli spettatori alla prima, quando degli strombazzati Sette non si vede nemmeno l’ombra: solo nomi, scudi, destinazione alle porte quando la battaglia inizierà, elencate dal messaggero e da Eteocle.
Dietro le quinte passi di marcia, grida di guerra, canglore di lance battute sugli scudi arrivano alle orecchie degli spettatori come a quelle di Eteocle e delle fanciulle del coro sulla scena.
L’espediente non è da poco: gli argivi rimangono sì sullo sfondo ma come un'ombra inquietante e minacciosa fuori le mura di Tebe come nella fortezza Bastiani.
Le fanciulle tebane, quelle che affollano il coro, sentono e scorgono da lontano l’esercito invasore e vanno in tilt: la paura scatena isteria di massa, diremmo noi moderni.
Eschilo uomo pio e, come avrebbero detto i romani, un ottimate (non so se per ceto ma sicuramente per vocazione) e noi un cattolico illuminato, era evidentemente attratto da personaggi difficilissimi da piegare ai suoi principi, dio, patria e famiglia che, naturalmente, nella stesura gli sfuggivano di mano: un Dostoevskij del V sec. a.C.?
Il mito di Eteocle l’avrebbe, infatti, dovuto mettere in allarme: il giovanotto non era poi quell'acqua di rocca necessaria a costruire un eroe senza macchia e senza paura, salvatore della Patria in nome della giustizia quella che lui stesso aveva calpestato negando al fratello Polinice l’avvicendamento al regno di Tebe, come convenuto.
Così come, all'inverso, l’avrebbe dovuto frenare l’impresa impossibile di trasformare Agamennone, un gran pezzo di m…a, nella povera vittima dell’invasata Clitennestra, in realtà vera vittima (a cui va la mia più grande solidarietà). Come Eteocle anche Clitennestra porta a discolpa del suo uxoricidio il destino fatale che perseguita le loro famiglie: non sono stati che lo strumento delle maledizioni divine e del fato. La profezia che si avvera.
Più della colpa, però, è la predestinazione che interessa Eschilo: dove inizia la “profezia divina” che preme per avverarsi e dove finisce la responsabilità personale che le si oppone. Così il benpensante, un po’ baciapile e destrorso Eschilo, nonché genio assoluto, è costretto a fare i conti con il groviglio di bene e male che è l’uomo costretto ad appellarsi al destino quando il caso o la mancanza di volontà non possono spiegare l’inimmaginabile di cui è stato vittima prima che carnefice.
Dice P.P.Pasolini: «i personaggi di Eschilo sono figure umanamente piene, contraddittorie, ricche, perennemente indefinite… ».
Eteocle è un eroe positivo quando entra in scena. Deve gestire ciò che anche lui ha provocato prima, ma nell’ora fatale non si può andare per il sottile.
È padrone della parola che deve guidare alla vittoria i tebani pena la perdita della città e dei suoi altari, i preferiti dagli dei su tutti quelli dell’Ellade. È il “conducator” che opporrà a gigante acheo eroe tebano alle sei porte riservandosi la settima per affrontare il gemello. È lui che terrà la barra a dritta nel mare in tempesta. Su di lui ricadranno tutte le colpe della disfatta mentre in caso di vittoria gli onori, giustamente, andranno agli dei. Saranno loro a guidarlo nell’estrema punizione al fratello che ha giurato di radere al suolo la città e devastarne i sacri altari. Grandioso, megalomane e sappiamo come andrà a finire.
Ma Eteocle non è da solo in scena: con lui c’è il coro di fanciulle in preda all'angoscia per ciò che le attende in caso di sconfitta: lo stupro e la schiavitù se non la pietosa morte.
Lo disturbano molto con i loro strepiti di donnette isteriche e con il loro correre qua e là come mosche impazzite gettandosi ai piedi degli dei anziché pregare in silenzio. Le zittisce, si scaglia contro di loro: “- ...genia intollerabile…che con l’affanno e l’urla diffondeste in città scorata viltà… nella sventura come in dolce fortuna mai io viva con razza femminile sotto il medesimo tetto…questi guadagni trai dal vivere con donne...È affare dell’uomo quanto avviene fuori casa; la donna non vi abbia a deliberare: chiusa all'interno, non provochi danni. Inteso o parlo a sorde? O Zeus, quale compagnia ci desti creando le donne!
Fa impressione sentire sempre le stesse parole che da millenni si ripetono uguali: alle donne il silenzio, agli uomini la parola. Alla donna la cura, all'uomo l’agorà.
Si può pensare che Eschilo non fosse misogino perché era così che andava allora la vita tra uomo e donna? Un fatto naturale?
Nutro i miei dubbi: il nostro genio (perché lo è) non avrebbe messo in scena una donna scatenata come Clitennestra, di tutt’altra pasta delle corifere: l’una aggressiva e volitiva usa le armi degli uomini per difendere le sue ragioni di donna tradita e offesa e le altre, giustamente spaventate, difendono la loro sensibilità e il loro rifiuto della violenza da donne diverse e uguali ai maschi.
E allora penso che Eschilo fosse coscientemente misogino, perché stretta non gli va e larga nemmeno.
January 28, 2026
Esquilo retoma los hilos del destino de la estirpe de Layo, una alcurnia condenada a las mayores miserias que el hombre puede conocer. Polinices, hijo de Edipo, llega a las puertas de Tebas acompañado de seis grandes guerreros que, como él, se regocijan en la cólera y anhelan destruir la polis. ¿El motivo? El trato injusto e indigno que Etéocles, su hermano, le dispensó al engañarlo respecto a la forma de repartirse el poder del Estado. Así ambos hermanos se enfrentan y mueren a manos del otro, cumpliendo la profecía que su padre les había vaticinado.
Lo que Esquilo sostiene aquí es que la polis debe crear mecanismos de mediación para casos como este, pues una disputa dentro del oikos —la unidad primigenia que genera obligaciones de restitución— puede poner en peligro la seguridad del Estado y oponerse al nomos o a la eunomía (conjunto de procedimientos y símbolos que constituyen la autoridad pública), escalando hasta consecuencias catastróficas. Sin un dispositivo legítimo que prevenga y contrarreste este tipo de sedición, el Estado es susceptible de desmoronarse. Hay mucho más que extraer de la obra; sin embargo, no me extenderé sobre ello: el tema no acabó de cautivarme.
Interesante y grata lectura; ha sido un gozo leer esto tras haberme familiarizado con el Edipo de Sófocles. Una genialidad.
Lo que Esquilo sostiene aquí es que la polis debe crear mecanismos de mediación para casos como este, pues una disputa dentro del oikos —la unidad primigenia que genera obligaciones de restitución— puede poner en peligro la seguridad del Estado y oponerse al nomos o a la eunomía (conjunto de procedimientos y símbolos que constituyen la autoridad pública), escalando hasta consecuencias catastróficas. Sin un dispositivo legítimo que prevenga y contrarreste este tipo de sedición, el Estado es susceptible de desmoronarse. Hay mucho más que extraer de la obra; sin embargo, no me extenderé sobre ello: el tema no acabó de cautivarme.
Interesante y grata lectura; ha sido un gozo leer esto tras haberme familiarizado con el Edipo de Sófocles. Una genialidad.
August 31, 2014
Structurally this play reminded me a bit of The Suppliants--a lot of action is crammed into the pages of this tiny play (dealing with themes such as war, the curse of Oedipus [determinism/fate as they relate to this] and brotherly conflict, with Eteocles and Polyneices the Cain and Abel of this little work), but as with The Suppliants, we are told about the action before it unfolds and after it has been unfolded. Whereas Shakespeare often shows us the action in the process of unfolding, Aeschylus' characters simply recount the great events that occur in the pages of this play (much like a historian). And there is nothing wrong with this (Tolstoy -- one of my favorites -- does this many times throughout War & Peace), even if I prefer seeing the plot unfold. It is also a very interesting play for its philosophical inquiries, as it raises interesting questions about things like fate/determinism, war and relative perception. But I think the merits of the work over all pale in comparison with Prometheus Bound, which I am now considering the centerpiece of Aeschylus' great tragedies.
August 23, 2014
SPOILER ALERT: One of the worlds oldest plays but it nonetheless is a read worthwhile. It is an interesting exploration of the human condition: a king is forced to fight his own brother in order to protect his own city and is doomed in the process. As is usual the case with Greek tragedies the element of hubris lies at the center of this play; instead of listening to the advice of the choir, Eteokles continues on the path to his own doom.
Comments on the form: being a director I am interested in new ways of performing theater. This Greek tragedy mixes elements of poetry with traditional dialogue which makes for an interested contrast to the more modern dialogue driven pieces one is used to. I would recommend this play to anyone interested in the origin of theater as well as those who want to delve into a culture different from our own.
Comments on the form: being a director I am interested in new ways of performing theater. This Greek tragedy mixes elements of poetry with traditional dialogue which makes for an interested contrast to the more modern dialogue driven pieces one is used to. I would recommend this play to anyone interested in the origin of theater as well as those who want to delve into a culture different from our own.
Read
February 23, 2020Kiedy wyrocznia mówi ci, że twój syn zabije cię i poślubi własną matkę, więc próbujesz pozbyć się problemu, lepiej upewnij się, czy skutecznie go zgładziłeś, w przeciwnym razie czekają cię kłopoty. Dużo kłopotów.
Cofnijmy się do przyczyn całego zamieszania. Na pewno wiecie kim jest Edyp, to syn króla Teb, Lajosa, i to właśnie jego dotyczyła przepowiednia delficka. Jak to już z przeznaczeniem bywa, proroctwo spełniło się. Tak oto powstała klątwa ciążąca nad rodem (ewentualnie może mieć to związek z homoseksualnym czynem Lajosa, za który został on przeklęty, ciekawe), dziedziczona przez następne pokolenia.
Wracając do Teb. Edyp miał dwóch synów - Eteoklesa i Polinejkesa (oraz dwie córki Ismenę i Antygonę, tę ostatnią również wszyscy dobrze znają). Bracia poróżnili się i Eteokles wygnał Polinejkesa, który powrócił do Teb z wyprawą zbrojną. Właśnie to wydarzenie opisuje Ajschylos w swojej tragedii.
"W to wierzę - i do walki w siódmej bramie grodu
sam stanę: komuż bowiem bardziej to przystoi
niźli mnie? Pójdę. Wódz się niechaj zmierzy z wodzem,
brat z bratem i wróg z wrogiem".
Eteokles jest boleśnie świadomy losu, który go czeka ze względu na odziedziczoną ojcowską klątwę, mimo to staje do walki. W końcu dochodzi do bratobójczego pojedynku, spełnia się mroczne przekleństwo ciążące nad całym rodem Lajosa. Dla mnie to jednak nie koniec, jeszcze do tej sprawy wrócimy.
Cofnijmy się do przyczyn całego zamieszania. Na pewno wiecie kim jest Edyp, to syn króla Teb, Lajosa, i to właśnie jego dotyczyła przepowiednia delficka. Jak to już z przeznaczeniem bywa, proroctwo spełniło się. Tak oto powstała klątwa ciążąca nad rodem (ewentualnie może mieć to związek z homoseksualnym czynem Lajosa, za który został on przeklęty, ciekawe), dziedziczona przez następne pokolenia.
Wracając do Teb. Edyp miał dwóch synów - Eteoklesa i Polinejkesa (oraz dwie córki Ismenę i Antygonę, tę ostatnią również wszyscy dobrze znają). Bracia poróżnili się i Eteokles wygnał Polinejkesa, który powrócił do Teb z wyprawą zbrojną. Właśnie to wydarzenie opisuje Ajschylos w swojej tragedii.
"W to wierzę - i do walki w siódmej bramie grodu
sam stanę: komuż bowiem bardziej to przystoi
niźli mnie? Pójdę. Wódz się niechaj zmierzy z wodzem,
brat z bratem i wróg z wrogiem".
Eteokles jest boleśnie świadomy losu, który go czeka ze względu na odziedziczoną ojcowską klątwę, mimo to staje do walki. W końcu dochodzi do bratobójczego pojedynku, spełnia się mroczne przekleństwo ciążące nad całym rodem Lajosa. Dla mnie to jednak nie koniec, jeszcze do tej sprawy wrócimy.
October 29, 2014
The jealous rivalry of two brothers
12 March 2012
When we come to Aeschylus we must remember that this is drama at its most primitive. This is because the works of Aeschylus are the oldest form of drama that remains extant. It appears that Aeschylus wrote most of his plays as trilogies, and unfortunately we only have one play of this trilogy available. It is difficult to know what exactly was the reason why only seven plays of Aeschylus were chosen to be preserved, and why these particular plays were chosen. The only complete trilogy we have is the Orestea, however it is clear, of the other four plays that we have, at least three of them are parts of a trilogy.
It is suggested that this one is the final part of a trilogy most likely dealing with the story of Oedipus. I am not quite convinced that this is the final play because it appears that the end of this play will then follow on to the despite between Antigone and Creon (as the king is named in the Sophoclean play) over whether it is lawful or unlawful for Antigone to bury her brother. I suspect that the first play dealt with Oedipus returning to Thebes and discovering that he has inadvertently fulfilled the prophecy by killing his father and marrying his mother, and then gouging his eyes out and sending himself into exile. This would be the second: it begins rather abruptly and ends rather abruptly. Unlike other plays, there is not much detail of what happened before, and there is a flagging reference at the end that things have not necessarily been solved.
The play begins with the city of Thebes under siege. Oedipus had two sons: one of them is Etocles, who remained in the city and became king; the other is Polyneices, who after having a dispute with Etocles, went into exile, and returned with six heroes to attempt to depose his brother. A bulk of the play deals with Etocles conversing with either the chorus or soldiers, though the end has Antigone come in with Ismene. However, while there are at times three actors on the stage, only two of them ever converse. It does not appear that proper dialogue between multiple characters had at this stage been developed.
Some have criticised this play for having nothing happen, and then refer to Shakespeare and say 'look at how much better he is'. This, in my opinion, is a very bad method of comparing plays. First of all, this is not Shakespeare, this is Aeschylus, and secondly, the two playwrights live at least 1000 years apart. By the time we arrive at Shakespeare a lot had changed and drama had developed significantly. Back here in the days of Aeschylus, drama was very much still an advanced form of storytelling, and we can see that in this play. Basically there is no action occurring on stage, it is all dialogue, but the dialogue is painting a picture of what is occurring off stage. There is no battle on stage: this is not what Greek drama was about. There was dancing, and that was the role of the chorus, and I also believe that most of the story was sung, not spoken.
We do see a form of character interaction a couple of times in the play. Etocles is attempting to calm the chorus of Theban woman down so as not to cause a panic, and later Antigone is debating with the chorus about giving proper rights for Polyneices. The play also ends with a city divided. The chorus splits in two, and half go off to join the side that agrees that Polyneices should be exposed and left for the birds, while the other half agree with Antigone that Polyneices should be buried. However this dispute is not resolved at the end of the play, which is why I suspect that this is not the end but the middle.
Still I found it more difficult to get into this play than I do with Euripides, but this is most likely because Euripides is the next generation of dramatist, where there are well developed character interactions and more debate among characters of ideas of woman's rights, human suffering, forgiveness, and repentance. While the three unities remain important, and the chorus is still present, we see that drama has made a step forward. Unfortunately we have very little else to assist us analysing how drama developed. Along with the three great tragedians, we also have the old comedy of Aristophanes, however after that we jump to a collection of fragments by Menander, and then to the farce of Terrence and Plautus. As for drama, there is a substantial gap of at least five-hundred years until we come to the writings of Seneca. After Seneca, we pretty much have nothing until the appearance of the mystery plays of the Middle Ages. However we know from the ruins that drama was incredibly popular: pretty much every ancient city in Roman times had a theatre. It is a shame that we have very little indication of what was actually performed in them.
12 March 2012
When we come to Aeschylus we must remember that this is drama at its most primitive. This is because the works of Aeschylus are the oldest form of drama that remains extant. It appears that Aeschylus wrote most of his plays as trilogies, and unfortunately we only have one play of this trilogy available. It is difficult to know what exactly was the reason why only seven plays of Aeschylus were chosen to be preserved, and why these particular plays were chosen. The only complete trilogy we have is the Orestea, however it is clear, of the other four plays that we have, at least three of them are parts of a trilogy.
It is suggested that this one is the final part of a trilogy most likely dealing with the story of Oedipus. I am not quite convinced that this is the final play because it appears that the end of this play will then follow on to the despite between Antigone and Creon (as the king is named in the Sophoclean play) over whether it is lawful or unlawful for Antigone to bury her brother. I suspect that the first play dealt with Oedipus returning to Thebes and discovering that he has inadvertently fulfilled the prophecy by killing his father and marrying his mother, and then gouging his eyes out and sending himself into exile. This would be the second: it begins rather abruptly and ends rather abruptly. Unlike other plays, there is not much detail of what happened before, and there is a flagging reference at the end that things have not necessarily been solved.
The play begins with the city of Thebes under siege. Oedipus had two sons: one of them is Etocles, who remained in the city and became king; the other is Polyneices, who after having a dispute with Etocles, went into exile, and returned with six heroes to attempt to depose his brother. A bulk of the play deals with Etocles conversing with either the chorus or soldiers, though the end has Antigone come in with Ismene. However, while there are at times three actors on the stage, only two of them ever converse. It does not appear that proper dialogue between multiple characters had at this stage been developed.
Some have criticised this play for having nothing happen, and then refer to Shakespeare and say 'look at how much better he is'. This, in my opinion, is a very bad method of comparing plays. First of all, this is not Shakespeare, this is Aeschylus, and secondly, the two playwrights live at least 1000 years apart. By the time we arrive at Shakespeare a lot had changed and drama had developed significantly. Back here in the days of Aeschylus, drama was very much still an advanced form of storytelling, and we can see that in this play. Basically there is no action occurring on stage, it is all dialogue, but the dialogue is painting a picture of what is occurring off stage. There is no battle on stage: this is not what Greek drama was about. There was dancing, and that was the role of the chorus, and I also believe that most of the story was sung, not spoken.
We do see a form of character interaction a couple of times in the play. Etocles is attempting to calm the chorus of Theban woman down so as not to cause a panic, and later Antigone is debating with the chorus about giving proper rights for Polyneices. The play also ends with a city divided. The chorus splits in two, and half go off to join the side that agrees that Polyneices should be exposed and left for the birds, while the other half agree with Antigone that Polyneices should be buried. However this dispute is not resolved at the end of the play, which is why I suspect that this is not the end but the middle.
Still I found it more difficult to get into this play than I do with Euripides, but this is most likely because Euripides is the next generation of dramatist, where there are well developed character interactions and more debate among characters of ideas of woman's rights, human suffering, forgiveness, and repentance. While the three unities remain important, and the chorus is still present, we see that drama has made a step forward. Unfortunately we have very little else to assist us analysing how drama developed. Along with the three great tragedians, we also have the old comedy of Aristophanes, however after that we jump to a collection of fragments by Menander, and then to the farce of Terrence and Plautus. As for drama, there is a substantial gap of at least five-hundred years until we come to the writings of Seneca. After Seneca, we pretty much have nothing until the appearance of the mystery plays of the Middle Ages. However we know from the ruins that drama was incredibly popular: pretty much every ancient city in Roman times had a theatre. It is a shame that we have very little indication of what was actually performed in them.
June 16, 2009
In Shakespeare's Richard the Second, the entire first act is spent preparing for a duel between two characters. Then, just as the blade to blade action is ready to begin, the duel is called off by the king, denying the audience of any momentary climax. Imagine that Act as an entire play and you've got Seven Against Thebes. It's like a boxing match in which all we hear is the opening ring announcer and then the post fight commentary. Seriously, the majority of the play is spent proclaiming who will fight who. This comes without any satisfying outcome for all the build up. The only satisfaction can come from an audience eagerly anticipating the answer to the question "I wonder who's at the next gate?" Don't get me wrong, there is some great poetry and I fully understand that there was no possibility, given the stage conventions of Greek Tragedy, of a Mortal Kombat style throw-down between each gate's defender and attacker. However, the best Greek Tragedies focus on some fiercely debated dilemma that often prove captivating or a character with a fascinating downfall. This play has neither of these two things. As a result, this tragedy is difficult to perform and therefore rarely performed.
I was part of a production of this play that did, at least I felt, prove moderately entertaining. Two things helped. First, having a very good chorus that, through their intensity, added some urgency to the upcoming battle. Second, paring it with Sophocles Antigone, which helped give a satisfying conclusion to the story. (I played the Herald, by the way.)
I recommend reading Seven Against Thebes only to those really interested in Greek theatre.
I was part of a production of this play that did, at least I felt, prove moderately entertaining. Two things helped. First, having a very good chorus that, through their intensity, added some urgency to the upcoming battle. Second, paring it with Sophocles Antigone, which helped give a satisfying conclusion to the story. (I played the Herald, by the way.)
I recommend reading Seven Against Thebes only to those really interested in Greek theatre.
March 9, 2022
Muy buena obra. La estructura está muy equilibrada para desarrollarse con naturalidad (para una tragedia esquilea). Las descripciones son muy vívidas. No sé griego, pero seguramente en el original (y en la representación que se preparara en la época de su producción) los coros consigan el impacto no sólo a través del lenguaje sino también de otros efectos sonoros y métricos.
Como advertencia, esta obra probablemente requiera un conocimiento sólido de la mitología para poder valorarla en el detalle.
Como advertencia, esta obra probablemente requiera un conocimiento sólido de la mitología para poder valorarla en el detalle.
December 14, 2021
Powerful, albeit with less interpersonal drama than Sophocles's Antigone. I don't think this is Aeschylus's best, but its still quite good.
May 19, 2022
Különös, roppant különös egy darab.
Mielőtt belekezdenék a cselekménybe, azért nem árt néhány dolgot tisztázni: Théba védője Eteoklész, akinek a neve jelentése "Igazán híres", az ostromló sereg vezetője pedig Polüneikész, a Sokviszályú, ezekkel a nevekkel egyébként a darab során sokat játszik Aiszkhülosz. Nos, ez a két ipse testvér, mindketten Oidipusz királynak a fiai, ezen kívül van még két lánytestvérük, Antigoné és Iszméné. Mint ismeretes, Oidipusz véletlenül kinyírta az apját, összefeküdt az anyjával, Iokasztéval és aztán jól megvakította magát és megátkozta a fiait, hogy egymás kezétől essenek el. Ezért aztán a két jómadár elhatározta, hogy felváltva uralkodik, Eteoklész kezdte, de annyira megtetszett neki a királykodás, hogy amikor váltani kellett volna, diszkréten száműzte Polüneikészt, aki összeszedett egy sereget és jött megostromolni szülővárosát.
Ott kezdődik a sztori, hogy a thébai asszonyok jajgatnak, hogy az ellen körülvette a várost, Eteoklész pedig letorkollja őket, hogy mi lenne, ha hasznossá tennék magukat ahelyett, hogy itt sopánkodnak. Ezt követően érkezik meg az ellenséges táborból kémük, aki elmondja, melyik kapunál ki várható.
A Proitosz-kapunál Tűdeusz van, aki valami rokongyilkosságba keveredett, és amikor a Thébát ostromló Polüneikész felkérte, még jól is jött neki, hogy elmenekülhetett. Namármost Aiszkhülosz mindegyik ellenségnek megadja, hogy mi van a pajzsán, akárcsak a homéroszi hagyomány Akhilleusz pajzsával. Ennek a Tűdeisznak a pajzsán ég, csillagok, középen pedig a telihold kerekedik fenyegetően, ellene Melanipposzt vezényli ki Eteoklész.
Az Elektra-kaput Kapáneusz ostromolja, akinek a pajzsán egy meztelen, fáklyás férfi látható, nem titkoltan azzal a szándékkal, hogy tűzbe borítsa vele a várost, vele Polüphontész viaskodik.
A Neitai-kapunál Eteoklosz hetvenkedik, ő egy létrán mászó fegyverest mutogat a pajzsán, a Neitai-kapunál pedig Megareusz várja.
Az Athéna-Onka kapu Hippomedón és Hüperbiosz küzdelmének volt tanúja, egyébként ez az a remek kapu, ahol annak az Amphiónnak a sírja van, aki történetesen Zeusz és Antiopé fia, és a lantjával olyan szépen berzenkedett annak idején, hogy a kövek maguktól másztak össze Thébává. Hippomedónnak a pajzsán Tüphosz volt, az a kevéssé kedves százfejű szörny, akit Zeusz diszkréten az Etna alá záratott, Hüperbiosznak pedig direkte Zeusz volt a pajzsán, ugye mind a kapu, mind az ellenség pajzsán megformált szörny némiképp kapcsolódott hozzá, ez olyan jól sikerült, hogy végül Hippomedónt Zeusz villáma sújtotta agyon, zárójelben megjegyzem, hogy Hüperbiosz pajzsáról tudunk csak valamit a thébai vezérek közül.
A Boreasz-kaput Parthenopaiosz Arkasz támadta, aki egy Szfinxszel a pajzsán heveskedett, ugye ez a kellemetlen alak zargatta a thébaiakat mindaddig, amíg Oidipusz meg nem oldotta a találóskérdést. (Mi az, ami reggel négy, délben kettő, este három lábon jár, és akkor a leggyengébb, mikor a legtöbb a lába? A válasz: az ember, aki csecsemőként négykézláb mászik, majd két lábon kezd járni, időskorában pedig mankó(k)ra támaszkodik.) Szóval visszatérve Théba ostromára a Boreasz-kaput Aktór védte, aki hát nagyon ööö... Ügyi volt. Aiszkhülosz nem igazán ad a védők jellemzésére, mindegyik ragyogó, meg csodás, meg sárkányfogvetemény, de az ellenség azért sokkal ördögibben van kidomborítva.
A Homoloisz-kapunál Amphiáraosz (kelletlenül ostromolgatott, mert jós lévén látta, hogy ha odamegy, meg fog halni, el is bújt idejekorán, de aztán a feleségét valami csillogó nyaklánccal lefizették, és lebuktatta a hites urát, vele szemben Lászthenész harcolt, aki ifjú volt, de gondolkodása érett.
A hetedik kapunál volt Polüneikész, Eteoklész öccse, akinek pajzsán egy fegyverest vezetett Diké valami olyasmi szándékkal, hogy gyere, pihenjünk meg apáid csarnokaiban, vele pedig Eteoklész szállt szembe. A Kar nagyon pánikolt, hogy nem lesz ez így jó, nehogy beteljesedjen a jóslat, de a jóslatoknak az a makacs tulajdonságuk van a görög mitológiában, hogy beteljesednek, úgyhogy a két fivér egymás kezétől halt meg, de Thébát megvédték, az ellenség halott (hogy miként vagy mikor vagy úgy egyáltalán, az nem kerül kifejtésre, először még Eteoklész megy a kapuhoz, aztán hipp-hopp nem meghalt az ebadta?).
Eddig tart kb. Aiszkhülosz drámája, innentől kezdve gyaníthatóan valaki belekontárkodott a művébe, valaki, aki Szophoklész után létezett, mert hirtelen feltűnik a színen Antigoné meg Iszméné és elkezdenek jajgatni. Ez még nem is lenne akkor baj, mert valószínűleg ugyanígy akart jajgattatni Aiszkhülosz is, csak ő a kettéosztott karral. Aztán onnantól kezdve, hogy abbahagyták a jajgatást, és Antigoné elkezd monologizálni, hótziher, hogy az már nem Aiszkhülosz. Innentől kezdve a szophoklészi sztori játszódik le, csak rövidítve, döntött a tanács, Eteoklészt tisztességesen eltemetik, de Polüneikészt temetetlenül hagyják a vadállatoknak, erre Antigoné jön és erősködik, hogy ő úgy eltemeti a bátyját, mint annak a rendje. Itt aztán gyorsan lezavarja a dolgot a kontár, mert a Kar kijelenti, hogy akármi is lesz, ezek eltemetik Polüneikészt, ne is próbálja őket megállítani senki, a többiek meg így hümmögtek, hogy oké, hát végülis közös gyász, meg rokonok, meg miegyéb... Szintén nem volt életem drámája, de remek kis mondatok vannak benne, mint hogy:
1-3 (Eteoklész)
Polgárok, az időkhöz illőn szóljon az,
ki ügyünk őre, városunk fedélzetén
kormányoz - álom ne szálljon pilláira!
10-13 (Eteoklész)
S ti, kik teljes virágnyitást nem értetek,
s ti, sok élemedettkorú, az izmotok
sarjadzását nőttön-növelve, legyetek
vigyázással, megtéve, mi tőletek telik!
21-23 (Eteoklész)
Isten kegye idáig még felénk hajolt,
idáig ránk, ostromlottakra kedvezőn
kormányozták a háborút az Églakók.
76 (Eteoklész)
Segítsetek! Hiszem, hogy érdekünk közös.
264 (Karvezető)
Jó, hallgatok. S türöm, mint más, a sorsomat.
287-289 (Kar)
Vigyáz szivem, félve nem alszik el.
Riadalmat gyújt belém
a sok gond: szívem ismerőse.
291-294 (Kar)
Így félti fészkén buvó,
pihés fiókáit a
reszkető gerle rossz
kigyó-hálótárstól.
353-354 (Kar)
Üres kéz üres kezet
húz magának cinkosúl.
452 (Kar)
Pusztuljon, ki ránk gonoszat esküszik!
507 (Eteoklész)
Alakja, lelke, kardja: tiszta, gáncstalan.
550-551 (Eteoklész)
Bár azt nyernék az égiektől, mit maguk
forralnak, ez istentelen hetvenkedők!
592-594 (Hírnök)
Nem jónak látszani, az lenni vágyik ő;
lelkének mély barázdájából szedve jó
gyümölcsöt, melyből jósugallat sarjadoz.
599-604 (Eteoklész)
Kezdj bárminő dologba, rosszabb nincs a rossz
barátoknál - ilyen gyümölcsöt le ne tépj!
Az átok szántóföldje csak halált terem.
625 (Eteoklész)
A halandónak isten adja a sikert.
702-703 (Eteoklész)
Minket már elfeledtek rég az istenek,
csak vesztünkön gyönyörködnek csodálkozón.
705-708 (Kar)
Most, hogy a torkodon űl itt... De határozatát
megszelídítheti változatával a Sors,
s simogató szellővel jöhet el, noha
forr, zuborog ma még.
719 (Eteoklész)
Nincs menekvés a végzetből, mit isten ád.
1041 (Antigoné)
Talál a bátorság a tettre száz utat!
Mielőtt belekezdenék a cselekménybe, azért nem árt néhány dolgot tisztázni: Théba védője Eteoklész, akinek a neve jelentése "Igazán híres", az ostromló sereg vezetője pedig Polüneikész, a Sokviszályú, ezekkel a nevekkel egyébként a darab során sokat játszik Aiszkhülosz. Nos, ez a két ipse testvér, mindketten Oidipusz királynak a fiai, ezen kívül van még két lánytestvérük, Antigoné és Iszméné. Mint ismeretes, Oidipusz véletlenül kinyírta az apját, összefeküdt az anyjával, Iokasztéval és aztán jól megvakította magát és megátkozta a fiait, hogy egymás kezétől essenek el. Ezért aztán a két jómadár elhatározta, hogy felváltva uralkodik, Eteoklész kezdte, de annyira megtetszett neki a királykodás, hogy amikor váltani kellett volna, diszkréten száműzte Polüneikészt, aki összeszedett egy sereget és jött megostromolni szülővárosát.
Ott kezdődik a sztori, hogy a thébai asszonyok jajgatnak, hogy az ellen körülvette a várost, Eteoklész pedig letorkollja őket, hogy mi lenne, ha hasznossá tennék magukat ahelyett, hogy itt sopánkodnak. Ezt követően érkezik meg az ellenséges táborból kémük, aki elmondja, melyik kapunál ki várható.
A Proitosz-kapunál Tűdeusz van, aki valami rokongyilkosságba keveredett, és amikor a Thébát ostromló Polüneikész felkérte, még jól is jött neki, hogy elmenekülhetett. Namármost Aiszkhülosz mindegyik ellenségnek megadja, hogy mi van a pajzsán, akárcsak a homéroszi hagyomány Akhilleusz pajzsával. Ennek a Tűdeisznak a pajzsán ég, csillagok, középen pedig a telihold kerekedik fenyegetően, ellene Melanipposzt vezényli ki Eteoklész.
Az Elektra-kaput Kapáneusz ostromolja, akinek a pajzsán egy meztelen, fáklyás férfi látható, nem titkoltan azzal a szándékkal, hogy tűzbe borítsa vele a várost, vele Polüphontész viaskodik.
A Neitai-kapunál Eteoklosz hetvenkedik, ő egy létrán mászó fegyverest mutogat a pajzsán, a Neitai-kapunál pedig Megareusz várja.
Az Athéna-Onka kapu Hippomedón és Hüperbiosz küzdelmének volt tanúja, egyébként ez az a remek kapu, ahol annak az Amphiónnak a sírja van, aki történetesen Zeusz és Antiopé fia, és a lantjával olyan szépen berzenkedett annak idején, hogy a kövek maguktól másztak össze Thébává. Hippomedónnak a pajzsán Tüphosz volt, az a kevéssé kedves százfejű szörny, akit Zeusz diszkréten az Etna alá záratott, Hüperbiosznak pedig direkte Zeusz volt a pajzsán, ugye mind a kapu, mind az ellenség pajzsán megformált szörny némiképp kapcsolódott hozzá, ez olyan jól sikerült, hogy végül Hippomedónt Zeusz villáma sújtotta agyon, zárójelben megjegyzem, hogy Hüperbiosz pajzsáról tudunk csak valamit a thébai vezérek közül.
A Boreasz-kaput Parthenopaiosz Arkasz támadta, aki egy Szfinxszel a pajzsán heveskedett, ugye ez a kellemetlen alak zargatta a thébaiakat mindaddig, amíg Oidipusz meg nem oldotta a találóskérdést. (Mi az, ami reggel négy, délben kettő, este három lábon jár, és akkor a leggyengébb, mikor a legtöbb a lába? A válasz: az ember, aki csecsemőként négykézláb mászik, majd két lábon kezd járni, időskorában pedig mankó(k)ra támaszkodik.) Szóval visszatérve Théba ostromára a Boreasz-kaput Aktór védte, aki hát nagyon ööö... Ügyi volt. Aiszkhülosz nem igazán ad a védők jellemzésére, mindegyik ragyogó, meg csodás, meg sárkányfogvetemény, de az ellenség azért sokkal ördögibben van kidomborítva.
A Homoloisz-kapunál Amphiáraosz (kelletlenül ostromolgatott, mert jós lévén látta, hogy ha odamegy, meg fog halni, el is bújt idejekorán, de aztán a feleségét valami csillogó nyaklánccal lefizették, és lebuktatta a hites urát, vele szemben Lászthenész harcolt, aki ifjú volt, de gondolkodása érett.
A hetedik kapunál volt Polüneikész, Eteoklész öccse, akinek pajzsán egy fegyverest vezetett Diké valami olyasmi szándékkal, hogy gyere, pihenjünk meg apáid csarnokaiban, vele pedig Eteoklész szállt szembe. A Kar nagyon pánikolt, hogy nem lesz ez így jó, nehogy beteljesedjen a jóslat, de a jóslatoknak az a makacs tulajdonságuk van a görög mitológiában, hogy beteljesednek, úgyhogy a két fivér egymás kezétől halt meg, de Thébát megvédték, az ellenség halott (hogy miként vagy mikor vagy úgy egyáltalán, az nem kerül kifejtésre, először még Eteoklész megy a kapuhoz, aztán hipp-hopp nem meghalt az ebadta?).
Eddig tart kb. Aiszkhülosz drámája, innentől kezdve gyaníthatóan valaki belekontárkodott a művébe, valaki, aki Szophoklész után létezett, mert hirtelen feltűnik a színen Antigoné meg Iszméné és elkezdenek jajgatni. Ez még nem is lenne akkor baj, mert valószínűleg ugyanígy akart jajgattatni Aiszkhülosz is, csak ő a kettéosztott karral. Aztán onnantól kezdve, hogy abbahagyták a jajgatást, és Antigoné elkezd monologizálni, hótziher, hogy az már nem Aiszkhülosz. Innentől kezdve a szophoklészi sztori játszódik le, csak rövidítve, döntött a tanács, Eteoklészt tisztességesen eltemetik, de Polüneikészt temetetlenül hagyják a vadállatoknak, erre Antigoné jön és erősködik, hogy ő úgy eltemeti a bátyját, mint annak a rendje. Itt aztán gyorsan lezavarja a dolgot a kontár, mert a Kar kijelenti, hogy akármi is lesz, ezek eltemetik Polüneikészt, ne is próbálja őket megállítani senki, a többiek meg így hümmögtek, hogy oké, hát végülis közös gyász, meg rokonok, meg miegyéb... Szintén nem volt életem drámája, de remek kis mondatok vannak benne, mint hogy:
1-3 (Eteoklész)
Polgárok, az időkhöz illőn szóljon az,
ki ügyünk őre, városunk fedélzetén
kormányoz - álom ne szálljon pilláira!
10-13 (Eteoklész)
S ti, kik teljes virágnyitást nem értetek,
s ti, sok élemedettkorú, az izmotok
sarjadzását nőttön-növelve, legyetek
vigyázással, megtéve, mi tőletek telik!
21-23 (Eteoklész)
Isten kegye idáig még felénk hajolt,
idáig ránk, ostromlottakra kedvezőn
kormányozták a háborút az Églakók.
76 (Eteoklész)
Segítsetek! Hiszem, hogy érdekünk közös.
264 (Karvezető)
Jó, hallgatok. S türöm, mint más, a sorsomat.
287-289 (Kar)
Vigyáz szivem, félve nem alszik el.
Riadalmat gyújt belém
a sok gond: szívem ismerőse.
291-294 (Kar)
Így félti fészkén buvó,
pihés fiókáit a
reszkető gerle rossz
kigyó-hálótárstól.
353-354 (Kar)
Üres kéz üres kezet
húz magának cinkosúl.
452 (Kar)
Pusztuljon, ki ránk gonoszat esküszik!
507 (Eteoklész)
Alakja, lelke, kardja: tiszta, gáncstalan.
550-551 (Eteoklész)
Bár azt nyernék az égiektől, mit maguk
forralnak, ez istentelen hetvenkedők!
592-594 (Hírnök)
Nem jónak látszani, az lenni vágyik ő;
lelkének mély barázdájából szedve jó
gyümölcsöt, melyből jósugallat sarjadoz.
599-604 (Eteoklész)
Kezdj bárminő dologba, rosszabb nincs a rossz
barátoknál - ilyen gyümölcsöt le ne tépj!
Az átok szántóföldje csak halált terem.
625 (Eteoklész)
A halandónak isten adja a sikert.
702-703 (Eteoklész)
Minket már elfeledtek rég az istenek,
csak vesztünkön gyönyörködnek csodálkozón.
705-708 (Kar)
Most, hogy a torkodon űl itt... De határozatát
megszelídítheti változatával a Sors,
s simogató szellővel jöhet el, noha
forr, zuborog ma még.
719 (Eteoklész)
Nincs menekvés a végzetből, mit isten ád.
1041 (Antigoné)
Talál a bátorság a tettre száz utat!
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February 20, 2025Τον περασμένο Ιούλιο θα παρακολουθούσα τις Φοίνισσαι από τον ΘΟΚ (Θεατρικός Οργανισμός Κύπρου) και είπα (όπως συνήθως) να πάρω και το κείμενο να το διαβάσω για να έχω μια καλύτερη εικόνα του τι παρακολούθησα.
Και μιας και θα έπαιρνα τις Φοίνισσαι του Ευρυπίδη λέω γιατί να μην πάρω και το Επτά Επί Θήβας του Αισχύλου.
Και μιας και θα έπαιρνα Αισχύλο και Ευρυπίδη λέω γιατί να μην πάρω και το σίκουελ τους, την Αντιγονη του Σοφοκλή.
Έτσι κατέληξα να διαβάζω και τα τρία έργα αφού παρακολούθησα το ένα στο θέατρο.
Παρόλο που μελέτησα την Αντιγόνη φοιτητής με τις Φοίνισσαι και τους Επτά θα ήξερα τι έγινε αμέσως πριν τα γεγονότα της Αντιγόνης.
Η Αντιγόνη είναι η μόνη που εμφανίζεται και στα τρία έργα ενώ άλλα πρόσωπα εμφανίζονται σε δύο ή μόνο ένα έργο.
Ο Κρέοντας κι ο Τειρεσίας εμφανίζονται και στην Αντιγονη και στις Φοίνισσαι, ο Ετεοκλής στους Επτά και στις Φοίνισσαι, η Ισμήνη στους Επτά και στην Αντιγόνη.
Παρόλα αυτά η Ιοκάστη ο Οιδίποδας ο Πολυνείκης και ο Μενοικέας εμφανίζονται μόνο στις Φοίνισσαι ενώ ο Αίμονας κι η Ευριδίκη μόνο στην Αντιγόνη.
Η αισχύλεια εκδοχή των Φοινισσών κλασικά είναι πιο λιτή με μόλις 6 πρόσωπα συμπεριλαμβανομένου και του χορού ενώ η Αντιγόνη έχει 10 και οι Φοίνισσαι 12 πρόσωπα.
Με άλλα λόγια κλασικός Ευρυπίδης με περισσότερους υποκριτές και περισσότερη πλοκή.
Διαβάζοντας την Αντιγόνη ανακάλυψα και τρύπα στο σενάριο του Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης. Η έκδοση του Κάκτου που έχω είναι η ίδια με αυτή του Κωνσταντίνου και της Ελένης. Κι οι σελίδες ακόμη συμφωνούν. Παρόλα αυτά ο Κωνσταντίνος ζητά από την Ελένη να κάνει μετάφραση αλλά αυτή είτε δεν έχει ιδέα είτε κάνει σκονάκι. Ενώ τώρα ξέροντας ότι το κείμενο είναι αντικριστό με την μετάφραση οι σκηνές με την τάξη μπάζουν από παντού.
Τελείωσα αυτή την κριτική με μια άχρηστη πληροφορία. Τι να κάνουμε είμαι νερντ και στο αρχαίο δράμα και στα ελληνικά σιτκομς
Και μιας και θα έπαιρνα τις Φοίνισσαι του Ευρυπίδη λέω γιατί να μην πάρω και το Επτά Επί Θήβας του Αισχύλου.
Και μιας και θα έπαιρνα Αισχύλο και Ευρυπίδη λέω γιατί να μην πάρω και το σίκουελ τους, την Αντιγονη του Σοφοκλή.
Έτσι κατέληξα να διαβάζω και τα τρία έργα αφού παρακολούθησα το ένα στο θέατρο.
Παρόλο που μελέτησα την Αντιγόνη φοιτητής με τις Φοίνισσαι και τους Επτά θα ήξερα τι έγινε αμέσως πριν τα γεγονότα της Αντιγόνης.
Η Αντιγόνη είναι η μόνη που εμφανίζεται και στα τρία έργα ενώ άλλα πρόσωπα εμφανίζονται σε δύο ή μόνο ένα έργο.
Ο Κρέοντας κι ο Τειρεσίας εμφανίζονται και στην Αντιγονη και στις Φοίνισσαι, ο Ετεοκλής στους Επτά και στις Φοίνισσαι, η Ισμήνη στους Επτά και στην Αντιγόνη.
Παρόλα αυτά η Ιοκάστη ο Οιδίποδας ο Πολυνείκης και ο Μενοικέας εμφανίζονται μόνο στις Φοίνισσαι ενώ ο Αίμονας κι η Ευριδίκη μόνο στην Αντιγόνη.
Η αισχύλεια εκδοχή των Φοινισσών κλασικά είναι πιο λιτή με μόλις 6 πρόσωπα συμπεριλαμβανομένου και του χορού ενώ η Αντιγόνη έχει 10 και οι Φοίνισσαι 12 πρόσωπα.
Με άλλα λόγια κλασικός Ευρυπίδης με περισσότερους υποκριτές και περισσότερη πλοκή.
Διαβάζοντας την Αντιγόνη ανακάλυψα και τρύπα στο σενάριο του Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης. Η έκδοση του Κάκτου που έχω είναι η ίδια με αυτή του Κωνσταντίνου και της Ελένης. Κι οι σελίδες ακόμη συμφωνούν. Παρόλα αυτά ο Κωνσταντίνος ζητά από την Ελένη να κάνει μετάφραση αλλά αυτή είτε δεν έχει ιδέα είτε κάνει σκονάκι. Ενώ τώρα ξέροντας ότι το κείμενο είναι αντικριστό με την μετάφραση οι σκηνές με την τάξη μπάζουν από παντού.
Τελείωσα αυτή την κριτική με μια άχρηστη πληροφορία. Τι να κάνουμε είμαι νερντ και στο αρχαίο δράμα και στα ελληνικά σιτκομς
March 27, 2025
Another Theban tragedy under my belt. Having read Antigone and Oedipus Rex I appreciate the extra lore provided by this play. Before, I never really connected the dots, but the events of Antigone make sense now that I have the Seven Against Thebes as a frame of reference. Now I'm compelled by Cadmus to read the rest of his ruinous entourage.
'Unknowingly, her son she wed
The children of that marriage-bed,
Each in the self-same womb, were bred —
Each by a brother’s hand lies dead!'
'Unknowingly, her son she wed
The children of that marriage-bed,
Each in the self-same womb, were bred —
Each by a brother’s hand lies dead!'
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July 12, 2021Everyone say thanku Sophocles for introducing a third character to a conversation because man this felt like nothing happened at all
March 9, 2025
m'és igual q el final sigui falso, antígona teamo
i esque èsquil q just la part mes interessant d la obra es digui q no es teva...uau
i esque èsquil q just la part mes interessant d la obra es digui q no es teva...uau
September 29, 2022
Aeschylus is pretty brilliant because he can make you cheer for Thebes but hate, hate the arrogant jerk king.
June 19, 2021
Mas la muerte de hermanos,
bajo sus mutuos golpes abatidos...
No, no existe vejez para esta mancha.
bajo sus mutuos golpes abatidos...
No, no existe vejez para esta mancha.
Read
June 16, 201633. Seven Against Thebes by Aeschylus
translated from Ancient Greek by George Theodoridis, 2010
performed: 467 bce
format: 50 page length webpage: https://bacchicstage.wordpress.com/ae...
read: Jun 7-8
rating: ?? stars
A more complex play than the Persians. Still all the action happens off stage. This was the third in a trilogy on Oedipus, but the first two plays are lost. The first, Laius, would have covered the story of Laius, King of Thebes, receiving the curse that this son would kill him. He ordered Oedipus killed, but Oedipus was saved and raised not knowing who his parents were. He would later kill Laius and marry his mother. The second play, Oedipus, would have covered Oedipus's discovery of his accidental crime after having four children. He placed a curse on his sons, Eteocles & Polyneices, saying they would kill each other.
In the legend, the brother's agree to trade the kingship. First Eteocles, and then Polyneices. But Eteocles refuses to step down, so Polyneices gathers an army of heroes an attacks Thebes. And that gets us here.
What was most interesting to me is that Aeschylus uses a lot of humor in an otherwise formulaic tragedy. As the attacks mount, the woman inside Thebes panic and start bewailing to their gods, dreading their treatment once conquered. Eteocles tries to be respectful, while pleading for sanity.
But there are lots of curiosities here. The seven heroic attackers are all described, with great attention given to their shields. One, Amphiaraus, was a seer and foresaw his own death in the battle, and carries an blank shield.
The ending of the play is not original. It was reworked so that Antigone, a daughter of Oedipus, would remain consistent her character in a later play by Sophocles.
translated from Ancient Greek by George Theodoridis, 2010
performed: 467 bce
format: 50 page length webpage: https://bacchicstage.wordpress.com/ae...
read: Jun 7-8
rating: ?? stars
A more complex play than the Persians. Still all the action happens off stage. This was the third in a trilogy on Oedipus, but the first two plays are lost. The first, Laius, would have covered the story of Laius, King of Thebes, receiving the curse that this son would kill him. He ordered Oedipus killed, but Oedipus was saved and raised not knowing who his parents were. He would later kill Laius and marry his mother. The second play, Oedipus, would have covered Oedipus's discovery of his accidental crime after having four children. He placed a curse on his sons, Eteocles & Polyneices, saying they would kill each other.
In the legend, the brother's agree to trade the kingship. First Eteocles, and then Polyneices. But Eteocles refuses to step down, so Polyneices gathers an army of heroes an attacks Thebes. And that gets us here.
What was most interesting to me is that Aeschylus uses a lot of humor in an otherwise formulaic tragedy. As the attacks mount, the woman inside Thebes panic and start bewailing to their gods, dreading their treatment once conquered. Eteocles tries to be respectful, while pleading for sanity.
But there are lots of curiosities here. The seven heroic attackers are all described, with great attention given to their shields. One, Amphiaraus, was a seer and foresaw his own death in the battle, and carries an blank shield.
The ending of the play is not original. It was reworked so that Antigone, a daughter of Oedipus, would remain consistent her character in a later play by Sophocles.
May 31, 2021
Ausgleichende Gerechtigkeit mit Stil - Ödipus' Söhne Eteokles und Polyneikes haben nicht gerade das beste Verhältnis zueinander. In einem gewaltigen Vergeltungsschlag gegen seinen Bruder belagert Polyneikes mit sechs Gefährten die Stadt Theben. Das Ende dieser Tragödie erfüllt jedes Klischee des Genres.
Bemerkenswert ist die besondere Aufmerksamkeit, die Aischylos jedem der Krieger zukommen lässt. Im finalen Showdown vor den Toren Thebens wird jedes Kämpferpaar einzeln von Eteokles und dem Chor thebanischer Mädchen in Szene gesetzt (wohl der erste kommerziell präsentierte Schaukampf der griechischen Literatur, der sogar mit individuellen Symbolen aufwarten kann). Am Ende prallen die beiden Brüder selbst aufeinander ...
Der Sterneabzug bezieht sich vor allem auf den Beginn der Belagerung. Der Chor der Mädchen lamentiert herzerreißend vor den Altären der Götter, bis Eteokles trotz der Gefahr durch den Feind nichts besseres zu tun hat, als eine Diskussion über den Wert der Frau vom Zaun zu brechen. Während also vor den Toren die Fetzen fliegen, führen Eteokles und Chor die wohl sinnloseste Debatte der Weltliteratur, die außer Beleidigungen keine neuen Erkenntnisse bringt. Ich wäre beinahe versucht, einen Vergleich mit dem Rap-Battle "Mädchen gegen Jungs" aus Bibi und Tina zu ziehen ...
Im Endeffekt bildet aber auch diese Tragödie ein fulminantes Epos, das überraschend viel Wert auf die Gruppenstärke der Hauptcharaktere legt und damit sogar fast asiatische Züge annimmt. Das Ende liefert den traurigen Abschluss zu Ödipus' entsetzlicher Familiengeschichte.
Bemerkenswert ist die besondere Aufmerksamkeit, die Aischylos jedem der Krieger zukommen lässt. Im finalen Showdown vor den Toren Thebens wird jedes Kämpferpaar einzeln von Eteokles und dem Chor thebanischer Mädchen in Szene gesetzt (wohl der erste kommerziell präsentierte Schaukampf der griechischen Literatur, der sogar mit individuellen Symbolen aufwarten kann). Am Ende prallen die beiden Brüder selbst aufeinander ...
Der Sterneabzug bezieht sich vor allem auf den Beginn der Belagerung. Der Chor der Mädchen lamentiert herzerreißend vor den Altären der Götter, bis Eteokles trotz der Gefahr durch den Feind nichts besseres zu tun hat, als eine Diskussion über den Wert der Frau vom Zaun zu brechen. Während also vor den Toren die Fetzen fliegen, führen Eteokles und Chor die wohl sinnloseste Debatte der Weltliteratur, die außer Beleidigungen keine neuen Erkenntnisse bringt. Ich wäre beinahe versucht, einen Vergleich mit dem Rap-Battle "Mädchen gegen Jungs" aus Bibi und Tina zu ziehen ...
Im Endeffekt bildet aber auch diese Tragödie ein fulminantes Epos, das überraschend viel Wert auf die Gruppenstärke der Hauptcharaktere legt und damit sogar fast asiatische Züge annimmt. Das Ende liefert den traurigen Abschluss zu Ödipus' entsetzlicher Familiengeschichte.
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