Man and Citizen

by Thomas Hobbes, Bernard Gert (Editor)

English, Latin (translation)

Genres: Philosophy, Politics, Nonfiction, School

394 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1972

About the author

Thomas Hobbes was a British philosopher and a seminal thinker of modern political philosophy. His ideas were marked by a mechanistic materialist foundation, a characterization of human nature based on greed and fear of death, and support for an absolute monarchical form of government. His 1651 book Leviathan established the foundation for most of Western political philosophy from the perspective of social contract theory.

He was also a scholar of classical Greek history and literature, and produced English translation of Illiad, Odyssey and History of Peloponnesian War.

Reviews

[Belén · Rating 3 out of 5]

Cansada de leer estos libros ahora solo pido una novelita básica que no me haga pensar. Le doy 3 estrellas como mucho la verdad, cómo que me tengo que tragar la palabras de un señor que dice que el poder de la autoridad ha de ser absoluto??? Que tengo derechos pero estos están subordinados a las decisiones de alguien que supuestamente es un elegido??? Para él la anarquía, su pesadilla, para mi, una utopía.

[Atrona Grizel (Sov8840)]

I think my mind is much closer to the mind of an imprisoned criminal than to the mind of an ordinary citizen outside. I suppose that, in a prison, I could survive my entire life because I was evolved precisely for such an existence. A human might go insane under such inhumane conditions, yet I am no longer a human. I am an otherworldly being instead, having completely abandoned humanity within me back in my adolescence. A person who has spent long years under torture—whether physical, mental, existential, or otherwise—undergoes a mutation; they become sharp, hardened, independent, strategic, and essentialist, capable of sacrificing everyone and dismantling everything in order to preserve their self and ensure the survival of their body. A war machine in flesh. The only thing that will attract society’s attention, on the other hand, is the question: “Why are you so ruthless?” A person shaped by long torment is inevitably transformed, just as metal is tempered in fire. That transformation, however, looks “monstrous” to those who never had to endure the furnace.

[Mary · Rating 4 out of 5]

Hobbes seems to defining eloquence into two camps: that of philosophy and that of passions. "The one is an elegant and clear expression of the conceptions of the mind and riseth partly from the contemplation of the things themselves, partly from an understanding of words taken in their own proper and definite signification. The other is a commotion of the passions of the mind [...] and derives from a metaphorical use of words fitted to the passions." Both exist, but "that is never disjoined from wisdom, but this almost never. But that this kind of powerful eloquence separated from the true knowledge of things, that is to say, from wisdom, is the true character of them who solicit and stir up the people to innovations" ("Dominion" 138). Whew! That's a lot of Hobbes quoting, but it seems to at least create a space for eloquence in the weak sense of communication philosophical principles truly.

(Jeremy: There might be an interesting parallel here to make with Campbell in terms of words' "own proper and definite signification" and your own description of the transient nature of signs and attendant signifiers.)

The question for me is what political assemblies might look like if operating under Hobbes' first group. Obviously he's not in favor of the affective power of language, because this is what "them who solicit and stir up the people" use, but the stolidly philosophical eloquence seems to be important, even if only in "clear expression." (We talked about philosopher kings last time, and I wonder if this might tie into that conversation.)

wickedness is a sensible response to wicked conditions (12)

state of nature is thought experiment, unfound in real life (24-5) Maybe in America (29)

"there must be as many promises [...] as men" (71)

division of labor by moral standing "the commands are shamedful to be done by some, and not by others" (79)

"supreme poweris indivisible" (105)
"if [the soverign] raise no more than is sufficient for the due administration of his power, that is abenefit equal to himself and his subjects" (115)

"in a democracy, look how many demogogyes, that is, how many powerful orators there are with the people" (118) and "in a popular dominion, there may be as many Neros as there are orators who soothe the people" (119).

"Another reason why a great assembleis not so fit for consultation is, because everyone who delivers his opinion holds it necessary to make a long-toninued speech; and to gain the more esteem from his auditors, he polishes and adorns it with the best and smoothest language. Now the nature of eloquene is to make good and evil, profitable and unprofitable, honest and dishonest, appear to be more or less than indeed they are; and to make that seem just which is unjust according as it shall best suit with his end that speaketh. For this is to persaude; and though they reason, yet take they not their rise from true principles, but from vulgar received opinions" (123)

"there is no reason why every man should not naurally mind his own praice, than the public business, but that here he sees a means to declare his eloquence, whereby he may gain the reputation of being ingenious and wise [...] rejoice and triumph in the applause of his dexterous behavior" (125)

"the subjects are the multitude and (how ever it seem a paradox) the king is the people" (135).

"Now eleoquense is two-fold. The one is an elegant and clear expression of the conceptions of the mind, and risethpartly from the contemplation of the things themselves, partly from an understanding of words taken in their own proper and definite signification. The other is a commotion of the passions of the mind (such as are hope, fear, anger, pity) and derives from a matphorical use of words fitted to the passions. That forms a speech from true principles; this from opinions already received" (138) those who practice the later "can turn their auditors out of fools into madmen [...] this they have from that sort of eloquence, not which explains things as they are, but from that other, which by moving their minds, makes all things to appear to be such as they in their minds prepared before, had already conceived them" (139)

At the beginning of chapter XIV, "Of Laws and Trespass," Hobbes makes a somewhat passing remark about counsel. He says that those who confuse law and counsel are like those "who think it is the duty of monarch not only to give ear to their counselors, but also to obey them, as though it were in vain to take counsel, unless it were also followed" (155). Phwat? Hobbes, did you just say that the monarch can be influenced by something outside of the sovereign, but politically impactful? Let me take a look at that page again: "Counsel is directed to his end that receives it [...] Counsel is given to none but the willing." Counsel, then, doesn't necessarily persuade the sovereign as we might understand rhetoric, but provides another pillar of reasoning for the monarch to consider. In fact, such counsel probably looks a lot like that philosophical eloquence that Hobbes describes above: clear, grounded in rationalist contemplation and divorced from emotional appeals. This kind of reminds me of Tacitus (who was similarly enamored of the principatus)and his concerns about demagogues' rhetorical sway, but who was, nonetheless, willing to admit that the sovereign could benefit from hearing what advisers had to say.

[铭烨 · Rating 5 out of 5]

There is a review in the comment section claiming that Thomas Hobbes' On Man and Citizen is "the same as Theological-Political Treatise of Spinoza" and based on this he gave the book a three-star review. If I remember it clearly, the Theological-Political Treatise of Spinoza was published in 1670 anonymously while De Homine by Thomas Hobbes was published in 1658 and De Cive was even earlier. How can you say the father is the same as his son? Such an unbelievable anachronism to make.

[Michael Scroggins · Rating 5 out of 5]

Super dank, I feel like these people rating it 3.9 stars cannot read.

[melograno · Rating 5 out of 5]

hobbes si legge sempre benissimo, comunque praise 🙏🏻

[Mahmoud Haggui]

How gifted Thomas Hobbes was! I'm not exaggerating but that what comes into my mind when remembering some ideas and quotes from this book. Hobbes stood up against the materialistic philosophy and its interpretation of life, world and human history and society. Unlike Thomas More, Plato and Al Faraby, Hobbes can be defined as a realistic philosopher whose thoughts perfectly affected the Post-Modernity age, He attacked the Idealism, the idea that we can achieve perfection by exert ceaseless effort, and by being more organized and committed. he asserted "Man is not sociable by nature" there is kind of people who hate commitment. He criticized society for putting Soldiers and officers in a higher rank above poets and writers.

[Danielle Lott · Rating 5 out of 5]

Another must read for IR!

[Michel · Rating 3 out of 5]

Almost same as "Theological-Political Treatise" of Spinoza.