Facing the Dragon: Confronting Personal and Spiritual Grandiosity

by Robert L. Moore, Max J. Havlick Jr. (Editor)

Structured around a series of lectures presented at the Jung Institute of Chicago in a program entitled "Jungian Psychology and Human Spirituality: Liberation from Tribalism in Religious Life," this book-length essay attacks the related problems of human evil, spiritual narcissism, secularism and ritual, and grandiosity. Moore dares to insist that we stop ignoring these issues and provides clear-sighted guidance for where to start and what to expect. Along the way, he pulls together many important threads from recent findings in theology, spirituality, and psychology and brings us to a point where we can conceive of embarking on a corrective course.

Genres: Psychology, Philosophy, Nonfiction, Spirituality, Self Help, Personal Development, Religion

248 pages, Paperback

First published March 2, 2003

About the author

Robert L. Moore (August 13, 1942 - June 18, 2016) was an American Jungian analyst and consultant in private practice in Chicago, Illinois. He was the Distinguished Service Professor of Psychology, Psychoanalysis and Spirituality at the Chicago Theological Seminary; a training analyst at the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago; and director of research for the Institute for the Science of Psychoanalysis. Author and editor of numerous books in psychology and spirituality, he lectured internationally on his formulation of a Neo-Jungian paradigm for psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. He was working on Structural Psychoanalysis and Integrative Psychotherapy: A Neo-Jungian Paradigm at the time of his death.

Dr Robert Moore was an internationally recognized psychotherapist and consultant in private practice in Chicago. Although he worked with both men and women, and was considered one of the leading therapists specializing in psychotherapy with men because of his discovery of the Archetypal Dynamics of the Masculine Self (King, Warrior, Magician, Lover). He served as Distinguished Service Professor of Psychology, Psychoanalysis and Spirituality at the Graduate Center of the Chicago Theological Seminary, and has served as a Training Analyst at the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago. He is Co-founder of the Chicago Center for Integrative Psychotherapy.

Reviews

[Morgan Blackledge · Rating 5 out of 5]

SUPERB!

GROUNDING!

SANE!

HEALING!

For those of you that are unfamiliar with Moore’s work. He was a theologian and Neo-Jungian (however HIGHLY diverse in his training and open minded in his perspective) psychoanalyst.

I’m reading Robert L. Moore’s work after a FEVERISH BINGE of James Hillman’s work.

MOORE/HILLMAN are like YEN/YANG to the other.

While they are DEFINITELY in a similar library. MOORE is CHRISTIAN and MUCH more GROUNDED/PRAGMATIC/CONSERVATIVE than HILLMAN, who is NEARLY PSYCHOTIC (in the best way) in his RADICAL commitment to OVERTURNING CONCRETE LITERALISM.

This book is a series of transcripts lecture/workshops on the subject of Moore’s thinking/research on the role of GRANDIOSITY (what he refers to as the DRAGON archetype) in human psychology and spirituality.

Moore argues that every individual harbors an inherent GRANDIOSITY/DRAGON. What some rations refer to as IMAGO DEI (the IMAGE of the GOD/GODDESS within, or alternately, the reflection of the DIVINE within).

MOORE argues that that, if left unchecked (unknown/unintegrated), the DRAGON archetype can lead to HIGHLY destructive, TOXIC AS FUCK behaviors and attitudes (as with ALL dogmatic KNOW BRO FUNDAMENTALISTS, PURITANICAL CANCEL KID SJW’s, BUZZ KILLER KARENS, TIGER MOMS, and HOLYER THAN THOU TYPES of EVERY STRIPE.

Conversely, MOORE suggests that TRUE HUMILITY entails WIDE AWAKE exploration and integration of the DRAGON WITHIN EACH of us.

So that we can find what Jung referred to as the GOLDEN FLOWER, or the GOLD WITHIN ourselves, within each other, within all beings, and permeating ALL OF CREATION.

As previously mentioned.

MOORE is the mooring line and anchor, for HILLMANS BURNING SHIP. These two are like LENNON and McCARTNY. Either one alone are GREAT. But TOGETHER, they are LEGENDARY.

IF I had to pick JUST ONE.

I’m going HILLMAN all day.

But GRATEFULLY, I can have BOTH/AND.

Take a Magical Mystery Tour down Abby Road and Let It Be!

5/5 STARS ⭐️ (Read Hillman First).

[Amy Fox · Rating 3 out of 5]

IN SHORT:
Fascinating material badly in need of an edit and a fresh draft.

PROS:
I have learned much from examining how an inflated sense of self importance sinuously undercuts our selves and endeavors. There is much wisdom in this text.

CONS:
This book needs chapters that build on and around a thesis. Instead it's a loosely connected series of lecture transcriptions. It's like someone took the notes that a cogent book was based on, and decided to publish those instead of the final text.

WTF:
The authour, otherwise very forward-minded, goes off on a screed against gender-variance as a sign of psychic imbalance on page 145. It's not just a weird and unwarranted stab against a group of people who already face enough unwarranted hostility, it's also a non-sequitur. One of the failings of transcribing lecture live verbatim one supposes.

[Zeppo · Rating 5 out of 5]

, I just finished 'Facing the dragon: confronting personal and spiritual grandiosity.'

This was actually the last published work by this writer before his murder suicide (!!!) in 2016.

Some key insights:
'You are most vulnerable to it (evil) when you are most disconnected from your relationships and trying to cope with your life and problems alone.'

Although this book is discussing evil from a Jungian perspective, he ultimately comes to the same conclusions many Christians would - that Satan gets to us when we are alone and disconnected. Grandiosity (the theme of the book) is really another word for the sin of pride (known to be the worst of all sins). He goes into more depth here:
'grandiosity' means you have larger fantasies and wishes for yourself than your real life can support, so they either make you manic, running around trying to keep up with their demands, or they make you depressed because your desires are so high and unachievable that it soon seems useless to try to do anything at all.'

'Humans beings have an enormous desire not to know. It is very painful to know. If we did a popularity contest among all defense mechanisms, the defense mechanism of denial would win hands down.'

This struck me in particular when considering the willful ignorance of masses during the coronavirus pandemic. People will do anything to avoid knowing the truth, including harming their own children with dodgy injections.

'When you relate adequately to your archetypal warrior within, whether you are male or female, you will be more effective and have less trouble with depression.'

The idea of those with warrior issues is they are just a mess. Depressed. Self-defeating. Avoidant. This is not the warrior. The warrior gets things done and focuses on the correct things which need to be done.

'Evil is very much antilife. It is full of hate. It tries to destroy relatedness. It uses deceit, lying and illusion. In fact, almost all folklore presents evil as deceit and lying and a master of illusion...evil hates cannot stand to be exposed, and it hates human community for that reason. Evil wants to get you alone and isolate you.'

Reading this passage haunted me a little. I couldn't help but think about the pandemic again and how truly evil the results of it have been (as planned of course). Community gatherings made illegal. Many people sat alone in rooms. The use of deceit to manipulate people into the desired course of action. Reading this section solidified for me the fact that those involved in orchestrating this pandemic are acting under the influence of satan and spreading his influence through isolating and deceiving the masses.

There is a warning for Christians here:
'Spiritual practice, then, can often be a clever disguise for someone possessed by infantile grandiosity and related delusional humility.'
A little cynical maybe, but often someone can turn to religion but be overwhelmed with the pride of being a good Christian, and even humility can be a kind of arrogance as well!

What is true humility?
'(a) knowing your limitations and (b) getting the help you need.'

This section made me think about recent YouTube vids I'd seen by John Doyle:
'Culturally modern people who retreat into secular individualism have fewer places to contain their grandiosity, so they tend toward self-medication excesses like consumerism, the cults of beauty, celebrity, or addiction, or some other king of addictive pseudo spirituality. Prophetic voices from all the world's religious rightfully criticize these forms of malignant narcissism.'

Even though he recommends some secular solutions to this problem of grandiosity, he also suggests a need for religious community and discusses the importance of prayer.

There is so much in this book and I think you can look at all of his advice through a Christian lens even though this guy is a hardcore Jungian. When he talks about 'king, warrior, magician, lover' being 4 archetypes you could arguably see all of these within the figure of Christ, so it still works for me it read this work through that lens as a reminder I need to be Christlike in multiple areas. Being a good Christian is of course not just about turning the cheek.

I'm looking forward to reading other books in the series!

[Rod Endacott · Rating 5 out of 5]

If you've read this book I bow to you, you clearly get the critical nature of his words . . . YOU are a danger to humanity. Now, you like me, are beginning to understand what that means and have tools to save the one precious life you have. If you haven't read this book, I highly recommend it, it will change your life . . . no it will save you from wasting your life.

[Louis · Rating 4 out of 5]

Explains the innate drive towards grandiosity, if unchecked, is the cause of many problems at the level of the individual and state.

[Rachel · Rating 3 out of 5]

Good

An interesting read. I find these things fascinating, maybe it is getting a bit outdated and it wild be great to read a new book on this subject.

[Jennifer Cornelius · Rating 5 out of 5]

Possibly the most important book I’ve ever read.

[Muhamed · Rating 5 out of 5]

Robert Moore is perhaps the deepest psychologist I have read. I just wish I had learned about him prior to his death. What a great thinker. I cannot recommend this book enough.

[Tobias Kotz · Rating 5 out of 5]

Off to how to train your dragon then… 😅

[Christopher Porzenheim · Rating 3 out of 5]

Moore is trying to help the reader recognize when people project divinity onto themselves or others. There is just as great a danger in projecting divinity where it doesn't belong, as there is not finding a way to manage some kind of connection with divinity. This book seeks the middle ground.

A basic familiarity with Jungian thought is assumed. "The Dragon," is what Moore calls "the Great Self within" or "God." For Moore, we have to enter into a personal relationship with the Dragon.

"The dragon guards the treasures of life. Those who avoid it find their lives drained of energy and creativity. Those who encounter it without conscious intention and goodwill must know its terrible, horrific face. As Jung suggested, the unconscious meets us in the same spirit we bring to it." P224

Reader beware: this book doesn't stand on its own, it assumes ideas from another of Moore's works: King, Warrior, Magician, Lover. This book is a collection of essays, some of them constructed from lectures or discussions, so the tone is conversational. Despite the conversational tone, the writing tends to dip into abstractions.

Moore is a Jungian by trade, but reads from other psychoanalytic schools and generally shows respect for them. His approach calls to mind the good and bad of Plato, in that he tries to map the highest truth, the Self, or "the Great God within" into perfect and imaginary geometric shapes.

[Andrew Marshall · Rating 4 out of 5]

We live in a culture that says 'you can be anything that you want to be'. So how we deal with grandiosity - feeling that we are better than everyone else, above common mortals, god like?
In a society that is uncomfortable with the term evil - how we deal with our darker, destructive and unsociable parts of our character. Worse still, denying these qualities means that we are not prepared to deal with them.

Moore's book is a series of lectures which evil, the failures of secularism and narcissism. There are questions from the audience which takes Moore off in other directions. So this is not a coherent or easy read. However, he deals with topics I have not seen covered before.

There is a discussion about how previous generations contained and channeled what Moore calls dragon energies. I loved this image and found it incredibly powerful. The final two chapters are particularly useful and explain how grandiosity can show up in our lives and practical techniques for how to combat them.

To be honest, I would not suggest this book to my clients (as I think it is too specialist and requires either a deep interest in world religions or a comprehensive knowledge of Jungian thought, but I would recommend it to any therapist

[Ruben Mes · Rating 4 out of 5]

Crucial in understanding the depravity of the world and extremely relevant for today.

Work with this and you'll become a better human for it.

This book has to be read in conjunction with KWML and preferably a men's group to study with. The book is concise but loaded with concepts and insights that you may miss when reading solitary.

This work is foundation for my work with men and continues to remind me of the urgency with which we, collectively, must transform our outdated ways if we are to survive.

Robert Moore believed, until his confusing, shocking and tragic murder-suicide, that we can still turn the tide - but only when we face the dragon collectively with courage and dedication.

I wish he had the time to write the sequel Riding the Dragon.

Rest in peace, Robert Moore.

I miss you

[Ozzie Gooen · Rating 4 out of 5]

Very interesting, not incredibly scientific. Definitely a well written and academic overview of the topic.

[Rose · Rating 5 out of 5]

Description: This book is a collection of lectures by Robert Moore with some of his original writing included as well. Each of the chapters dives into a new topic discussing spirituality, psychology, grandiosity, and individuality.

Quotation: "Audience: What do you think about the feminist theory that every woman should raise her consciousness and discover 'the goddess within'? / Moore: Absolutely, I think that is true. Every woman, and every man, needs to discover 'the goddess within,' but it is also important for them not to mistake themselves for it, or project it onto another human being."

Surprising Fact: Another quotation fits here honestly "Remember, there is no such thing as a person who has completely transformed his or her own narcissism. There are only people who acknowledge the existence of their grandiose energies and try to learn how to relate to them consciously and regulate and optimize their contacts with them intelligently."

Takeaway: Before reading this book, due to personal events, I had a lot of negative feelings towards religion as a whole. I do still follow similar beliefs to those I held before reading this book, but it has opened my eyes to the fact that certain people in certain religions are problematic just as certain people not associated with any religion. It is unfair to hate on religion just because religious people have oppressed the world an erased cultures. There is still value to religion and spirituality on an individualistic level and it is how you interpret that and incorporate that in your life that is important.

[Bohdan Pechenyak · Rating 5 out of 5]

An absolutely brilliant explication of the Dragon Energy that underlies both our personal grandiosity and spiritual hubris, arrogance. This grandiosity manifests itself as much at the individual as at the group/organization/tribe/nation level, affecting the politics, religion, business, and all other human social activity.

While the Western tradition have always envisioned the dragon or “the serpent” to be evil, as something to be slayed and vanquished, the Eastern non-dual traditions tend to also emphasize the positive aspect of the Dragon archetype - as the creativity, passion, inspired leadership, etc.

Robert Moore focuses mostly on analyzing the Western notions, as a way of preparation and warning for humanity to address the shadow side of the Dragon. But the book ends with the challenge to befriend the inner dragon, because, in truth, it never goes away and can only be channeled or redirected elsewhere.

Disconnection from that inner Dragon drains any person of life and cuts off any access to creative energies as such. Too close a connection, bordering on identification with that energy, may lead to psychosis, destructive grandiosity, and chaotic, seemingly antisocial behavior. The challenge is to find and apply that middle road in between alienation from and identification with the dragon energy.

[Cody Robinson · Rating 5 out of 5]

I rated this book pretty highly although there were a few things I didn’t necessarily agree with. I feel like he was a bit biased in areas and danced around certain topics without clarifying.
Understanding where he comes from in his psychoanalytic background and the era he was published is important for understanding his work objectively.
I was blown away by his insight of grandiosity and depth of the great self within. The need for a respectful relationship with out inner God is necessary while also having strict boundaries as to not be overtaken by identification with that energy.
He goes into great depth on how an individual deals with overstimulated grandiosity from psychotic outbreaks to minor anxieties. He also discusses tactics for dealing with these grandiose energies.
His work is heavily influenced by his own personal personifications of 4 major archetypes. The royal couple, the warrior, the magician, and the lover. I enjoyed his representations personally. They were solid and easy to understand and relate to.
All in all it’s a great book as long as you take it objectively (as you should with any book really)

[Bosco Raj · Rating 5 out of 5]

It is a brilliant book in Jungian psychology. The book is not structured but a collection of lectures and conversations with the audience. Primarily the author put forth how unconscious grandiosity negatively affects the human psyche. This book helps to understand the inner working of the human subconscious and how it relates to the shadow self and its evil potentials.

His use of mythological interpretations as a basis for understanding the psyche is not detailed in this book. But if you read other books regarding archetypes will help to understand this book with more clarity.

I read Robert L. Moore's other book, (King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine). This book is linear progression of the previous book I mentioned, with more clarity on integrating the shadow into our conscious ego.

[Alex Schuster · Rating 4 out of 5]

What an interesting "philosophical" read and definitely something I needed in my late twenties.
The book boils down to how Narcissism and Grandiosity are powerful forces all of us have to battle - and have battled since the dawn of times. We need to continuously find and design individual and social mechanisms to keep it at bay.

Unfortunately, while his ability to connect interesting dots and create a powerful thesis are strong, he fails to give practical and pragmatic depth that I was hoping for. It is more philosophy than psychology due to this reason.

Would still recommend to anyone who is interested and wants unusual perspectives on narcissism, (especially masculine) drive and to face the limits of ones own grandiosity.

[Ernesta · Rating 5 out of 5]

Profesorius, psichoanalitikas kalba apie bene nepadoriausią XXI amžiaus žodį - dvasingumą. Na dar ir apie didybės maniją, apie psichikos vientisumą ir kas nutinka, jei ši sąlyga nepatenkinama. Kalba per neo-junginistinę perspektyvą (kurią iš esmės pats ir išplėtojo), per archetipus ir akademiškai.

Siūlomas idėjas gali atmesti, gali priimti, gali įtikėti.
Bet kokiu atveju, gausi įdomių požiūrio taškų.

O turinys, atveriantis naujas perspektyvas, yra mano silpnybė, tad be menkiausios dvejonės sakau, kad 5*.

Tiesa, patarčiau knygos imtis jau gerai suvokus archetipų fenomeną, nes ją sudaro autoriaus sakytos kalbos/paskaitos, tad sąvokos čia apibrėžiamos konkrečiai, einama iškart prie įžvalgų.

[Victor Gavrila · Rating 5 out of 5]

An incredible guide into the depth of the unconscious energies of the human mind, Robert Moore defines so concretely and simply such complicated concepts discovered by Jung, Adler, Freud & Kohut, furtherly draws a map connecting all the dots towards a more mature and holistic framing of the mental and spiritual training anyone can take to befriend and control his destructive, yet powerful energies, into creative abilities.

It's so much like a spiritual alchemy, working with the lead that weighs us down and turning it into gold that can enrich the world around us.

[Derek Gann · Rating 4 out of 5]

4/5 stars. The only thing that really made this book a 4 rather than 5 is the fact that it was arguably a little more advanced than my intelligence so it helped me learn a whole bunch of new words and meanings. Great book for any young man or lady that feels lost or like something pulls at them within.

[Joshua Yates · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book has been excellent. Moore dedicated so much of his life by packaging up content from Jung, Freud, Adler, and others then expressed what he thought was a grandiosity energy we all have within us. This energy can destroy Self or the energy can be maintained, used, to benefit Self. Moore calls this approach: Facing the Dragon.

[Chris Benning · Rating 5 out of 5]

A somewhat technical revealing book on how grandiosity contributes to not only personal crises in ones life but the other group dynamics / elements of this phenom contribute to the expression in the larger whole in war, prejudice and other wider social expressions.. If you are looking "inside" and are familiar with archetypal images its good.

[Helle · Rating 4 out of 5]

Necessary understand for the psychological basis of hatred, dogma, and revolution. Understanding our capacity for greatness intertwined with terror is crucial for moving forward in modern culture. Moore only lacks nuance in neurology.

[Simona · Rating 5 out of 5]

Becoming manic from having bigger dreams that real life can support or depressed because would be useless to jump that high? "Facing the dragon" proved to be a great book covering these aspects and others such as grandiosity, archetypes, evil, and so much more.

[Ana Plaiseanu · Rating 5 out of 5]

This might be the most important book I've ever laid hands upon and read.

[Fernando Suarezserna · Rating 5 out of 5]

Amazing. One of the most important books I've read.

[Pin · Rating 5 out of 5]

Only bothered to read this to make fun of my friend

[Mick D · Rating 5 out of 5]

Relevant.

[Allen · Rating 5 out of 5]

Pt. PTL

Finally a treasure map that shows both the perils and useful apps along the road. The road to genius leads through the dragon's den.