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When They Severed Earth from Sky: How the Human Mind Shapes Myth
Why were Prometheus and Loki envisioned as chained to rocks? What was the Golden Calf? Why are mirrors believed to carry bad luck? How could anyone think that mortals like Perseus, Beowulf, and St. George actually fought dragons, since dragons don't exist? Strange though they sound, however, these "myths" did not begin as fiction.
This absorbing book shows that myths originally transmitted real information about real events and observations, preserving the information sometimes for millennia within nonliterate societies. Geologists' interpretations of how a volcanic cataclysm long ago created Oregon's Crater Lake, for example, is echoed point for point in the local myth of its origin. The Klamath tribe saw it happen and passed down the story--for nearly 8,000 years.
We, however, have been literate so long that we've forgotten how myths encode reality. Recent studies of how our brains work, applied to a wide range of data from the Pacific Northwest to ancient Egypt to modern stories reported in newspapers, have helped the Barbers deduce the characteristic principles by which such tales both develop and degrade through time. Myth is in fact a quite reasonable way to convey important messages orally over many generations--although reasoning back to the original events is possible only under rather specific conditions.
Our oldest written records date to 5,200 years ago, but we have been speaking and mythmaking for perhaps 100,000. This groundbreaking book points the way to restoring some of that lost history and teaching us about human storytelling.
This absorbing book shows that myths originally transmitted real information about real events and observations, preserving the information sometimes for millennia within nonliterate societies. Geologists' interpretations of how a volcanic cataclysm long ago created Oregon's Crater Lake, for example, is echoed point for point in the local myth of its origin. The Klamath tribe saw it happen and passed down the story--for nearly 8,000 years.
We, however, have been literate so long that we've forgotten how myths encode reality. Recent studies of how our brains work, applied to a wide range of data from the Pacific Northwest to ancient Egypt to modern stories reported in newspapers, have helped the Barbers deduce the characteristic principles by which such tales both develop and degrade through time. Myth is in fact a quite reasonable way to convey important messages orally over many generations--although reasoning back to the original events is possible only under rather specific conditions.
Our oldest written records date to 5,200 years ago, but we have been speaking and mythmaking for perhaps 100,000. This groundbreaking book points the way to restoring some of that lost history and teaching us about human storytelling.
312 pages, Paperback
First published December 28, 2004
42 people are currently reading
1320 people want to read
About the author
Elizabeth Wayland Barber
10 books102 followersAmerican scholar and expert on archaeology, linguistics, textiles, and folk dance as well as Professor emerita of archaeology and linguistics at Occidental College
Barber received her PhD university from Yale in 1968.
Barber received her PhD university from Yale in 1968.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 67 reviews
October 17, 2008
This is an enthralling exploration of mythmaking and how pre-literate human minds made sense of their world. As an avid history nerd, I have had innumerable occasions to lament the way present day lack of understanding consistently maligns past cultures and eras. We are so beguiled by our own cleverness, by the gadgets we've created, by our modern conveniences we now cannot imagine living without, that we consider humans of past times (when we even bother to consider them) as primitive, fairly stupid versions of ourselves. We impose some imagined progress, a general getting-better, on the march through time so that we don't have to cope with the disturbing and distinct possibility that we are not the end and goal of all creation and perhaps, just perhaps, we have lost knowledge (or at best rediscovered things) that peoples in past periods understood quite well. Because we no longer speak the same language as they - and I mean conceptual as well as literal language - we misunderstand them and attribute our misunderstandings to their ignorance, not our own. This prejudice against past times grows all the more pronounced when it comes to preliterate societies. Though humans (with our same mental and creative capabilities) have lived far longer as non-literate creatures than as literate ones, we commonly ignore those millennia of non-literate human history largely because it is difficult to study. Pre-literate people left behind material detritus, but obviously no writing, and in relying on the spoken word, developed epistemological frameworks that bore little or no resemblance to ours, we who rely so completely on the written word. How are we to make sense of the stories they told? Are they just stories or do they contain some truths? If they ever contained truths, would they not have been erased by time and innumerable retellings?
The Barbers go a long way in restoring the integrity to these "stories", the myths we so often dismiss as flat fictions. Through what must have been years and years of research, these two scholars have assembled an extensive set of "rules" or patterns of behavior to which myths from a multitude of cultures (Native American, Greek, Norse, Indic, etc.) conform and through which we can often guess at the original events that inspired them. The basic principle of this study is that oral cultures are not written ones and their myths cannot be treated as immediately legible to us moderns who privilege the written. When all you have is the spoken word to convey information down generations, you (a) choose only certain very important types of information to convey; (b) tend to imbue the entire world around you - rocks, trees, volcanoes, and so forth - with will; and (c) necessarily cannot spend too much time noting cause and effect in any sort of way we would deem "scientific" because you cannot accumulate detailed knowledge over generations and you assume the cause of any given event is that it was willed by a sentient entity (i.e., the volcano erupted because it was angry, that is, because it wanted to).
The Barbers spend a great deal of time dissecting volcano-related myths (volcanic eruptions comprise events worthy of being recorded in a people's myths and also leave evidence of their eruptions that we can still study today). The other body of information that gave most to oral mythmaking, and an area in which we moderns are profoundly ignorant, is astronomy and the Barbers devote an entire chapter exclusively to the complex movements in the heavens which ancient peoples noted and passed down for generations. In fact, ancient societies had such sophisticated knowledge of the movements of the cosmos, including precession, an cycle that takes 26,000 years to complete, that the Barbers conclude these cultures had been watching the skies and accumulating data which they successfully passed on for millennia. Not so primitive after all.
The Barbers go a long way in restoring the integrity to these "stories", the myths we so often dismiss as flat fictions. Through what must have been years and years of research, these two scholars have assembled an extensive set of "rules" or patterns of behavior to which myths from a multitude of cultures (Native American, Greek, Norse, Indic, etc.) conform and through which we can often guess at the original events that inspired them. The basic principle of this study is that oral cultures are not written ones and their myths cannot be treated as immediately legible to us moderns who privilege the written. When all you have is the spoken word to convey information down generations, you (a) choose only certain very important types of information to convey; (b) tend to imbue the entire world around you - rocks, trees, volcanoes, and so forth - with will; and (c) necessarily cannot spend too much time noting cause and effect in any sort of way we would deem "scientific" because you cannot accumulate detailed knowledge over generations and you assume the cause of any given event is that it was willed by a sentient entity (i.e., the volcano erupted because it was angry, that is, because it wanted to).
The Barbers spend a great deal of time dissecting volcano-related myths (volcanic eruptions comprise events worthy of being recorded in a people's myths and also leave evidence of their eruptions that we can still study today). The other body of information that gave most to oral mythmaking, and an area in which we moderns are profoundly ignorant, is astronomy and the Barbers devote an entire chapter exclusively to the complex movements in the heavens which ancient peoples noted and passed down for generations. In fact, ancient societies had such sophisticated knowledge of the movements of the cosmos, including precession, an cycle that takes 26,000 years to complete, that the Barbers conclude these cultures had been watching the skies and accumulating data which they successfully passed on for millennia. Not so primitive after all.
November 11, 2010
I really enjoyed this book, although the basic thesis (people encode events into stories, and assuming that lets us get at the events a bit by trying to crack the code) wasn't too revolutionary.
What WAS great fun was watching the authors roll up their sleeves and dig at the "how" of it. They come up with a list of 50 or more principles by which the human mind encodes the information, and they go through relevant examples. My own poor Christian heart skipped a beat when they explained the cultural utility of virgin narratives in astrology at the time of Jesus' allegedly-star-announced birth (I guess I have a bit more fondness for some of the literalism than I realized), but I was otherwise impressed at their fearless sifting of fact from fiction, and the rich and detailed explanations they offered for how subtle some of the mistakes we can make are if we miss this or that.
I'm sure this is a great resource for certain kinds of academic work or anthropology, but I had a blast just skimming it and thinking through different stories friends or I have told over the years too. 5 stars.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
July 12, 2017
Oh my good god this is boring!
It begins with the entirety of the book in simple, and then proceeds to bore the hell out of you to exaggerate the importance of their particular focus on what myths are.
"Myths encode meaningful information" Yes, they kinda do.
"Myths exist to convey important information" Ehh. . .that's not wrong, but's misleading.
Bunch of stories with painfully extracted basic fable lessons to prove these statements.
I don't know if anyone ever doubted the various myths tell some kind of important information, but to pretend they are a deliberate technology to encode information in a cynical way, with the assumption that just saying "Dude, there's a volcano here" wouldn't have done the trick, even if they had the word. Maybe I'm taking their argument further than they intended, but repetition like this kinda forces you to, I don't necessarily think they intended that argument, but they wrote that argument. I say things I don't mean all the time, I get it, but this is a book man, you can do better.
But yeah, mostly it's just fucking booooring. You want to learn their point without reading their work? Just take those first two sentences as your guide and go read the Odyssey. Just, try not to get too focused on literalism, because thousands of historians have spent WAY too much time and money trying to find the 'real Trojan war'. I suspect something like Troy existed, I suspect there was a war because there were loads of wars -- but you can't treat Homer as a historian. You can get history from Shakespeare too -- but only by ignoring the actual plot, and being aware there will be anachronisms. And the Homer literalists are probably why I really have a problem with this book beyond it just being boring. I have spent hundreds, possibly thousands, of hours trying to convince colleagues they're just being damn ridiculous >.>
Oh and token nod to the obvious "You really think people don't just believe myths because they're credulous? Go interview an American Christian, and make a note to find out exactly how much of the Bible they have read, and what myths they believe." The greatest overstatement of myth as information carrier is the assumption that almost anyone will be aware of the information rather than credulous belief in the literal myth itself.
It begins with the entirety of the book in simple, and then proceeds to bore the hell out of you to exaggerate the importance of their particular focus on what myths are.
"Myths encode meaningful information" Yes, they kinda do.
"Myths exist to convey important information" Ehh. . .that's not wrong, but's misleading.
Bunch of stories with painfully extracted basic fable lessons to prove these statements.
I don't know if anyone ever doubted the various myths tell some kind of important information, but to pretend they are a deliberate technology to encode information in a cynical way, with the assumption that just saying "Dude, there's a volcano here" wouldn't have done the trick, even if they had the word. Maybe I'm taking their argument further than they intended, but repetition like this kinda forces you to, I don't necessarily think they intended that argument, but they wrote that argument. I say things I don't mean all the time, I get it, but this is a book man, you can do better.
But yeah, mostly it's just fucking booooring. You want to learn their point without reading their work? Just take those first two sentences as your guide and go read the Odyssey. Just, try not to get too focused on literalism, because thousands of historians have spent WAY too much time and money trying to find the 'real Trojan war'. I suspect something like Troy existed, I suspect there was a war because there were loads of wars -- but you can't treat Homer as a historian. You can get history from Shakespeare too -- but only by ignoring the actual plot, and being aware there will be anachronisms. And the Homer literalists are probably why I really have a problem with this book beyond it just being boring. I have spent hundreds, possibly thousands, of hours trying to convince colleagues they're just being damn ridiculous >.>
Oh and token nod to the obvious "You really think people don't just believe myths because they're credulous? Go interview an American Christian, and make a note to find out exactly how much of the Bible they have read, and what myths they believe." The greatest overstatement of myth as information carrier is the assumption that almost anyone will be aware of the information rather than credulous belief in the literal myth itself.
January 10, 2020
This is an example of how the popular science books should not be written. The topic and hypothesis are important, but this book is a waste of time. I should have know it from the beginning, when the authors wrote "how could all the people of the past believe in such a nonsense as Sigurd fighting the dragon." Authors seem to assume that clear and accurate rational worldview is a common sense, and when we hear an incredible story we have to find a rational, down-to-earth explanation of it. According to authors all the myths convey coded information about past events. They are just cryptic messages and play no other important function. There is a simple alternative, either they are coded messages or just irrational giberish.
When the statement is moderate (some myths carry some information about the past) it's uncontroversial (even banal), but in a radical version (as presented here) it's simply wrong.
Authors do not argument or give any reasons for their opinions, they just present a simple rounded-up narrative, based on how language and memory works. In some cases it is plausible, in many other the story seems as good as any other.
When the statement is moderate (some myths carry some information about the past) it's uncontroversial (even banal), but in a radical version (as presented here) it's simply wrong.
Authors do not argument or give any reasons for their opinions, they just present a simple rounded-up narrative, based on how language and memory works. In some cases it is plausible, in many other the story seems as good as any other.
March 30, 2018
Certainly a vindicating book but I'll try not to allow my egoistic pleasure in being proven right cloud my judgment of its objective merits. This book is a neurolinguistic and cross-disciplinary approach to the assessment of mythology and folklore, building up from first principles and simple rules to demonstrate howe we arrive at complex outputs. Their work seems consistent with Kahneman's work regarding biases and heuristics pervasive throughout the species, though the book doesn't reference his work that I can recall. In particular, the idea that causes have causers seems to be consistent with the idea that what you see is allt here is (WYSIATI) and touches on the availability bias. It also connects to the work I've read about memory enhancement techniques (such as the memory palace) in the sense that mythology are couched in colorful and compelling narratives which boost retention of information to a point where they have relatively stability over many hundreds or thousands of years. Further, this book touches on a theme that has been growing on me for several years now. One of the root assumptions here, which is less assumption than fact given that we know we have over 200k years of anatomical modernity and 100+k years of cognitive modernity, is that ancient humans weren't stupid, fearful, superstitious savages. Rather, they were people, roughly as smart as us, in different circumstances and with different tools available to them to ease life in the environments they existed in. Though this text explicitly deals with mythology, and more specifically greek mythology, the basic patterns, heuristics, biases or rules of human cognition that it exposes gives us cause to speculate about what other information our modern society had disregarded as native nonsense. A strong connection I see to that application is the work of Graham Hancock, similar to the discussions had in Carlos Castaneda's series on Don Juan's teachings. The idea that we have tons of information that is useful, if not essential, to human quality of life and the most basic variables which define our day to day experiences, but which modern society leaves unaddressed or inadequately so, such as mental illness, justice, purpose, and community. All in all, great work. I absolutely would love someone to chunk this into a much more accessible form for mass consumption.
November 10, 2017
I always thought that myths were great stories coming from deep within the human psyche to show us what it is to be human. What an exciting revelation to read about the linguistic and cognitive factors that the authors claim shaped the passing on (and distortion) of historical events in preliterate societies -- and in urban legends today. These tales became myth. I was blown away by much of this: the story of Prometheus makes so much more sense now! The chapter "Of Sky and Time" gave me a sense of just how long humans have been, well, "human," and how much they understood.
This is academic reading, not literature, so be prepared -- it's a bit of work to read, but I thought it was well worth it.
This is academic reading, not literature, so be prepared -- it's a bit of work to read, but I thought it was well worth it.
August 22, 2022
This book starts with a simple fact: A preliterate society only knows what its people can remember, so important information has to be made as memorable as possible. And that, say the Barbers, is what mythology is for. They demonstrate how famous stories from around the world encode information about volcanoes, the precession of the stars, and countless other details. If mythology and related phenomenon are of interest to you, you need to read this book.
8/22/22
Not changing my old review.
8/22/22
Not changing my old review.
April 29, 2022
Actually reasonably good. Just suffers from the standard pop non-fiction writing issues which while grating to me, might actually make it more enjoyable for a wider audience.
August 10, 2011
Barber and Barber, in this fascinating theoretical analysis of myth, cogently argue that there are kernels of truth at the heart of many of the mythical narratives that are often dismissed without critical reflection.
With great balance, the authors lay out the cognitive principles that have constrained the myth-making process in all human culture while at the same time giving arresting examples from cultures around the world and from antiquity. The examples are most heavily drawn from ancient Greek and Egyptian sources but there is also a good helping of Native American, Hawaiian, Mesopotamian, Caucasian, and early English myths.
The core thrust of the theoretical analysis is stated in the authors’ “myth principles.” While there are many “sub-principles” that are elaborated upon in depth, I will just list the main ones I found to be central:
1. Memory Crunch
2. Silence Principle
3. Socialization Antidote
4. Rationalization Syndrome
5. Analogy Principle
6. Willfulness Principle
7. Multiple-Aspects Principle
8. Compressive/ Conflationary Principles
9. Principle of Metaphoric Reality
10. Principle of Attraction
11. Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc
12. Restructuring Principle
13. Vividness Principle
(Note--this is not how the authors list these principles. I have abridged and somewhat re-ordered their list.)
As my main interest in this subject comes from the area of cognitive science of religion, I was naturally drawn to the “Willfulness Principle” in that this deals with how the concept of agency is utilized by human beings in their construction of gods and supernatural explanations. The principle, simply defined is this: a force or an event observed is often assumed to having been done by “somebody” (scientific explanations in antiquity being undeveloped) so when an event—such a volcanic eruption is witnessed--the principles of myth-making are not satisfied unless there is a “who” named. Indeed, stories without agents are not as engaging to human beings.
The Barbers weave this principle (along with of course the other elements of their rich framework) to explicate many of the myths that still are with us today. While I won’t name the details, their explanations for the parallels seen in flood-myths is the most satisfying that I have ever read. Reading that section in the book induced one of those “Ahah!” moments. Their treatment of the Promethean legend was also extraordinarily thought-provoking and convincing. The last chapter concerning dragon myths was equally absorbing and original (although I found it to be the least convincing argument in the book).
The only possible weakness that I found in the book is its somewhat superficial treatment of the cognitive sciences. While this may be a plus for the general reader unaccustomed to the field, I would have liked to see a much more in-depth treatment.
Overall, the book is a must read for anyone interested in mythology and religion. Even if you are not interested in the cognitive aspects, there are enough novel insights from narrative theory, archaeology, and mythology to provide an absorbing read.
With great balance, the authors lay out the cognitive principles that have constrained the myth-making process in all human culture while at the same time giving arresting examples from cultures around the world and from antiquity. The examples are most heavily drawn from ancient Greek and Egyptian sources but there is also a good helping of Native American, Hawaiian, Mesopotamian, Caucasian, and early English myths.
The core thrust of the theoretical analysis is stated in the authors’ “myth principles.” While there are many “sub-principles” that are elaborated upon in depth, I will just list the main ones I found to be central:
1. Memory Crunch
2. Silence Principle
3. Socialization Antidote
4. Rationalization Syndrome
5. Analogy Principle
6. Willfulness Principle
7. Multiple-Aspects Principle
8. Compressive/ Conflationary Principles
9. Principle of Metaphoric Reality
10. Principle of Attraction
11. Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc
12. Restructuring Principle
13. Vividness Principle
(Note--this is not how the authors list these principles. I have abridged and somewhat re-ordered their list.)
As my main interest in this subject comes from the area of cognitive science of religion, I was naturally drawn to the “Willfulness Principle” in that this deals with how the concept of agency is utilized by human beings in their construction of gods and supernatural explanations. The principle, simply defined is this: a force or an event observed is often assumed to having been done by “somebody” (scientific explanations in antiquity being undeveloped) so when an event—such a volcanic eruption is witnessed--the principles of myth-making are not satisfied unless there is a “who” named. Indeed, stories without agents are not as engaging to human beings.
The Barbers weave this principle (along with of course the other elements of their rich framework) to explicate many of the myths that still are with us today. While I won’t name the details, their explanations for the parallels seen in flood-myths is the most satisfying that I have ever read. Reading that section in the book induced one of those “Ahah!” moments. Their treatment of the Promethean legend was also extraordinarily thought-provoking and convincing. The last chapter concerning dragon myths was equally absorbing and original (although I found it to be the least convincing argument in the book).
The only possible weakness that I found in the book is its somewhat superficial treatment of the cognitive sciences. While this may be a plus for the general reader unaccustomed to the field, I would have liked to see a much more in-depth treatment.
Overall, the book is a must read for anyone interested in mythology and religion. Even if you are not interested in the cognitive aspects, there are enough novel insights from narrative theory, archaeology, and mythology to provide an absorbing read.
July 23, 2023
I like the idea of explaining myths by biology and experience rather than psychology and archetypes.
April 13, 2011
Fascinating from beginning to end, though I agree with the other reviewer who mentions the astronomy chapter kind of going off the rails. Otherwise, I found all the speculation and connections to be a compelling argument of the authors' premise, that myths should not be equated with fictions but understood as documentations of actual events, often extended as oral "history" across time to us. Among the topics discussed are the Great Flood in the mythologies of cultures the world over, demystifying the origins of dragons and vampires, explaining bizarre elements of Greek mythology (why is there an eagle pecking at Prometheus' liver while he's chained to a mountain?), and others. Along the way various details you may have heard of in stories are explained in the context of the times (e.g. Why is it that when Moses comes down the mountain it's a golden calf and not some other animal that the people are worshipping?). Much is made of the fact that mythology can be better understood when first we put ourselves in the mindset of the knowledge accumulated up to the point when a mythology was created. If you had no knowledge of plate tectonics, how would you describe the event of an earthquake and warn people ever after you if you had no written communication? A lot of great food for thought here.
August 19, 2010
Fascinating exploration into the neuro-linguistic origins of myth by using linguistic constructs and the way the human brain functions. The authors have been able to theorize that most myths are oral interpretations of geological and astrological events. Over time, the stories move further away from the observed event, pass on to other cultures become embellished to keep the "story" interesting and, as a result, lose context and often meaning.
This book offers some wonderful evidence into the ways to look at the origins of myth. It really changes how one sees contemporary religion and how we have wrongly interpreted many religious texts as historical fact. The section discussing the astrological understandings of myth was eye-opening. It really changes how one sees the role of the Virgin and The Child.
I do think the authors stay a little too focused on the intellectual aspects, ignoring psychological interpretations that likely have some validity into the nature of myth as well. I believe the truth is somewhere between this book and Campbell's overly simplified mono-myth theory.
This book offers some wonderful evidence into the ways to look at the origins of myth. It really changes how one sees contemporary religion and how we have wrongly interpreted many religious texts as historical fact. The section discussing the astrological understandings of myth was eye-opening. It really changes how one sees the role of the Virgin and The Child.
I do think the authors stay a little too focused on the intellectual aspects, ignoring psychological interpretations that likely have some validity into the nature of myth as well. I believe the truth is somewhere between this book and Campbell's overly simplified mono-myth theory.
January 9, 2020
Absolutely PHENOMENAL. One of those books that everyone should have to read before they leave school. A lot of people have commented on the book being a boring/dry read?? I honestly finished it in a day and could NOT put it down. Follow this one with Earth and Sky: Visions of the Cosmos in Native American Folklore - you won't be disappointed.
September 28, 2024
Honestly, great premise but I'm not enamored with the one-to-one equation of myth and fact. Sure, Titans might have represented Volcanos, and maybe Dragons were possibly just an explanation of the dangers facing grave robbers. That seems a little over-simplistic though, and of course, there's no way to prove the theory. Maybe it's my own personal bias, but I have to believe that SOME part of why myths last might be that they are compelling stories, not simply explanations of natural phenomena.
September 17, 2015
Did not finish. I listened to the audio book and while it wasn't entirely uninteresting I felt like the same point was being made over and over. Plus the narrator's voice was odd. The way she read made it sound like she wasn't a real person, like Siri was reading to me. Maybe I'd have enjoyed it more if I'd actually been reading it.
January 25, 2013
DREAM BREAKER ...
July 11, 2017
My childhood is in ruins now.
March 8, 2024
Interesting proposals for the origins of myths, plus some new angles on human memory and storytelling. I enjoyed reading it alongside Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology and linking the two.
Though a new topic for me, I didn't find it mad fun. I'm somewhat unconvinced of the usefulness of the techniques described as a wand to uncover the truth behind myths. It seems like the methods are easy to apply once you have an explanation, but less so as a place to start from to gain new understanding. Having said that, I'm not a historian yaknow.
Though a new topic for me, I didn't find it mad fun. I'm somewhat unconvinced of the usefulness of the techniques described as a wand to uncover the truth behind myths. It seems like the methods are easy to apply once you have an explanation, but less so as a place to start from to gain new understanding. Having said that, I'm not a historian yaknow.
partially-read
June 27, 2025Cool premise and very deep analysis. Got a bit too nitty-gritty for me to enjoy reading start-to-finish, but I suppose that's to be expected for a serious academic work. Definitely recommend checking it out if you're into the topic.
suspended
July 27, 2020Paused at beginning of Ch 9.
September 21, 2017
* * * * * - five star amazing for an aspiring mythopoetist.
The two Barbers have written a wonderful book about mythology - what myth is, what it was used for and how myths were (and are) influenced by our minds. While I found this book highly interesting, I have to warn you from the start it is bone dry. The few attempts at whit are dryer than the sands of Sahara on a particularly warm day. But that does not detract from the book's genius, or the wisdom of the Barbers on this subject.
According to the Barbers, myths were never intended as fiction in the sense we see it today. But as carriers of information about real events and observations. And the information contained in myths has been shown to be able to survive intact for thousands of years. Myths were the only way to make knowledge "travel" to distant generations in the absence of writing. In fact, the Barbers argue that the absence of written documentation is the main (only?) limiting factor in ancient people's perceptions, as compared to ours. The inability to reference written sources limits the amount of information a person (and a society) can keep alive, hence the importance that the chosen myths carry worthwhile messages to the following generations.
Nonetheless, the information in myths may become changed with retelling and changing cultural outlooks. So the book described various quirks of the human mind which influence myths and mythopoeia. Mental processes which subject myth to “mutations”; for instance the silence principle (what is obvious is not stated), compression (of time scale) or restructuring etc. Practical examples were then used and analysed to show each of these principles at work.
Another characteristic of myth/folklore is that it does not distinguish between observation and interpretation. Interpretation in its turn, is influenced by rationalisation and the point-of-view of the story-teller (myth-telling always occurs in the setting of a particular tradition/culture). Another factor influencing the interpretation of events, is a misconception which may occur when empiric scientific tradition is not established: if something happens, it must be willed.
Highly recommendable book for anyone interested in dissecting myths. For me, I am in search of worthwhile children stories (myths) to tell my 1-year old twin children once they grow up. And therefore I am reading everything I can find about myths, in addition to the myths and stories themselves. A good companion book to this one is A Short History of Myth by Karen Armstrong, also a highly recommendable book which analyses the function of Myth in comparison to Logos and aptly argues our continued need for Myth in our modern society.
The two Barbers have written a wonderful book about mythology - what myth is, what it was used for and how myths were (and are) influenced by our minds. While I found this book highly interesting, I have to warn you from the start it is bone dry. The few attempts at whit are dryer than the sands of Sahara on a particularly warm day. But that does not detract from the book's genius, or the wisdom of the Barbers on this subject.
According to the Barbers, myths were never intended as fiction in the sense we see it today. But as carriers of information about real events and observations. And the information contained in myths has been shown to be able to survive intact for thousands of years. Myths were the only way to make knowledge "travel" to distant generations in the absence of writing. In fact, the Barbers argue that the absence of written documentation is the main (only?) limiting factor in ancient people's perceptions, as compared to ours. The inability to reference written sources limits the amount of information a person (and a society) can keep alive, hence the importance that the chosen myths carry worthwhile messages to the following generations.
Nonetheless, the information in myths may become changed with retelling and changing cultural outlooks. So the book described various quirks of the human mind which influence myths and mythopoeia. Mental processes which subject myth to “mutations”; for instance the silence principle (what is obvious is not stated), compression (of time scale) or restructuring etc. Practical examples were then used and analysed to show each of these principles at work.
Another characteristic of myth/folklore is that it does not distinguish between observation and interpretation. Interpretation in its turn, is influenced by rationalisation and the point-of-view of the story-teller (myth-telling always occurs in the setting of a particular tradition/culture). Another factor influencing the interpretation of events, is a misconception which may occur when empiric scientific tradition is not established: if something happens, it must be willed.
Highly recommendable book for anyone interested in dissecting myths. For me, I am in search of worthwhile children stories (myths) to tell my 1-year old twin children once they grow up. And therefore I am reading everything I can find about myths, in addition to the myths and stories themselves. A good companion book to this one is A Short History of Myth by Karen Armstrong, also a highly recommendable book which analyses the function of Myth in comparison to Logos and aptly argues our continued need for Myth in our modern society.
June 8, 2021
This book advances a provocative theory of myth, one that builds on an earlier case study by one of the authors (Paul Barber) of European vampire myths. The general theory, in a nutshell, is that many myths and legends, even those that are supernatural or highly improbable, have their origins in real observable events. But these events have been transformed in systematic ways that reflect the limits of human cognition in non-literate societies, and that help to ensure that the resulting mythic story will become a stable part of the oral culture and will be remembered and transmitted within and across generations.
The authors build their case first with myths whose interpretation can be triangulated against other sources of data. For instance, the Oregon Klamath story of a mountaintop battle between gods that sent red-hot rocks tumbling down is reinterpreted as referencing a volcanic eruption, and this interpretation is validated with geological data. Cases of this sort are relatively convincing. Other cases are less grounded and much more conjectural, but the underlying theory is sure to guide research by folklorists, anthropologists, and other social scientists. It's not the smoothest narrative from a writerly point of view, but nonetheless an accessible and compelling read for anyone with an interest in myths and legends.
The authors build their case first with myths whose interpretation can be triangulated against other sources of data. For instance, the Oregon Klamath story of a mountaintop battle between gods that sent red-hot rocks tumbling down is reinterpreted as referencing a volcanic eruption, and this interpretation is validated with geological data. Cases of this sort are relatively convincing. Other cases are less grounded and much more conjectural, but the underlying theory is sure to guide research by folklorists, anthropologists, and other social scientists. It's not the smoothest narrative from a writerly point of view, but nonetheless an accessible and compelling read for anyone with an interest in myths and legends.
December 24, 2012
The productive intersections between myth and cognition, storytelling and neuroscience, have probably never been more thoughtfully explored than in this great book. Taking many of the core myths of ancient cultures, the authors unpack the ways in which these myths encode critical information in such a way that they can be transmitted generation to generation before writing. If the local mountain is actually a potentially deadly volcano and you'd better remember this, even if volcanos can be dormant for centuries...well, the authors show how ancient cultures used myths to ensure that that information made its way forward. Their first example shows how a story recorded in the late 1800s transmitted the dangers of a volcano that had previously erupted 7,600 years ago. There's so much good stuff in this book (why do Western dragons behave the way that they do? Why are all of our time numbers in base 6?), it's hard to point to just one place.
The greatest take-away for me is their conception of the "camera-angle problem." Namely, that what a story is encoding might be understandable only from a highly particular camera angle. View the story from the wrong angle, and it won't make sense. But if you can get the angle right, you can't help but understand.
The greatest take-away for me is their conception of the "camera-angle problem." Namely, that what a story is encoding might be understandable only from a highly particular camera angle. View the story from the wrong angle, and it won't make sense. But if you can get the angle right, you can't help but understand.
August 11, 2022
The subtitle of the book, "How the Human Mind Shapes Myth", says it all. This book posits a framework for grounding the form and content of myths as explanations of natural phenomena, for example an active volcano, whether seen closeup or seen from far away. The framework consists of dynamics or strategies for ancient peoples to remember things, in mythical form, that could be vital to their survival, but also addresses changes that occur to these myths as volcanoes go quiescent, or as the culture moves away from the phenomena reflected in the myth.
Some of the chapters (e.g., "The Spirit World") felt somewhat unsupported to me, but many of chapters felt as though they offered credible explanations for mythological origins.
One particular chapter, "Of Sky and Time", is a tour de force. It explores the movements of the sun, planets, stars and constellations as seen by ancient eyes, and indicates that the ancients somehow perceived changes in the orientation and presentation of these objects (solstices, equinoxes, precession, etc.) even though some these changes would occur over many lifetimes. The book posits ideas as to how some of these changes get reflected in myths. This chapter will require more than one reading (eventually) to comprehend in full.
Some of the chapters (e.g., "The Spirit World") felt somewhat unsupported to me, but many of chapters felt as though they offered credible explanations for mythological origins.
One particular chapter, "Of Sky and Time", is a tour de force. It explores the movements of the sun, planets, stars and constellations as seen by ancient eyes, and indicates that the ancients somehow perceived changes in the orientation and presentation of these objects (solstices, equinoxes, precession, etc.) even though some these changes would occur over many lifetimes. The book posits ideas as to how some of these changes get reflected in myths. This chapter will require more than one reading (eventually) to comprehend in full.
December 24, 2018
[4½ stars] This book takes a completely different approach to mythology than any I've read before, studying it through cognitive science rather than as literature or archetypal psychology. The Barbers' theory is that many myths describe real events and phenomena, such as volcanic eruptions, the precession of the equinoxes, or the dangers of flammable methane gas trapped in burial mounds. Myths happen when non-literate people pass a description of an event down for generations via an oral tradition, subject to the limitations of human memory, how well the witnesses understood the original event, if the people stayed in the area where the event happened or migrated to somewhere where the myth no longer fit, and so on.
The Barbers came up with about 40 "myth principles" that explain what processes have affected the development of these myths. The sheer number of the principles overwhelmed me, and I lost track of which one was which, but happily they're all summarized in an appendix at the end for further study. Aside from that, I thought the authors' argument was convincing and the book was fascinating.
The Barbers came up with about 40 "myth principles" that explain what processes have affected the development of these myths. The sheer number of the principles overwhelmed me, and I lost track of which one was which, but happily they're all summarized in an appendix at the end for further study. Aside from that, I thought the authors' argument was convincing and the book was fascinating.
May 9, 2015
An amazing book about genesis of myths, and how to detect possible kernel of truth within them. I like to call this "Folklore Analysis for Dummies" -- but that may be just me. :P
In this book authors Elizabeth and Paul Barber explain how mythologies are, in a way, ancient people's way to communicate something in their history. Obviously after many generations fact and fiction become blurred, giving rise to what we call "legend". However even inside legends there is grain of truth... and this point is hammered home.
From Native Americans to the Greeks, even Norse Epics and Biblical stories aren't exempt from that. The authors provide examples when geological facts match up with events told in epics and folklores. Somehow the clues were always there; to borrow from the cliche, hiding in the plain sight.
There's also discussion about folk psychology. Concerning myth, what kind of information tends to be preserved? What kind of conflation usually happens? Also not least of all: how do we "get" to understand myth from the teller's cultural perspective?
A book about mythology that is also about science, skepticism, and weighing evidence. Highly recommended.
In this book authors Elizabeth and Paul Barber explain how mythologies are, in a way, ancient people's way to communicate something in their history. Obviously after many generations fact and fiction become blurred, giving rise to what we call "legend". However even inside legends there is grain of truth... and this point is hammered home.
From Native Americans to the Greeks, even Norse Epics and Biblical stories aren't exempt from that. The authors provide examples when geological facts match up with events told in epics and folklores. Somehow the clues were always there; to borrow from the cliche, hiding in the plain sight.
There's also discussion about folk psychology. Concerning myth, what kind of information tends to be preserved? What kind of conflation usually happens? Also not least of all: how do we "get" to understand myth from the teller's cultural perspective?
A book about mythology that is also about science, skepticism, and weighing evidence. Highly recommended.
January 28, 2009
Not quite what I expected, but very educational nonetheless. I wish I had learned this angle of myth interpretation back in my college Classical Mythology course - would have made it much more interesting. The authors have developed quite a detailed system for explaining HOW and why myths were originally formed and HOW they have morphed over the years into what we think of today as nonsensical literary stories. Most of their examples involve volcano-based myths and they have one confusingly detailed chapter toward then end about celestial (star, planet, sun)-based myths. I would have liked to see more chapters that were set up as "here's the myth and this is how it was created and evolved and here's what it means." And fewer chapters about their theories on myth evolution. It was a fairly quick read that ends somewhat abruptly (no closure chapter). But you'll come away with a whole new appreciation for ancient peoples and the knowledge base of nonliterate societies.
June 7, 2011
I had picked up this book from a local library book sale and it's an advanced copy, so some of the pictures didn't come out very well, which was rather disappointing.
Overall, however, this was a really fascinating read about what if the myths were descriptions of events happening like volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. The stories were mythologized because people didn't know how to scientifically describe things back then. Also discussed birthlines, heroes, and how it might seem like someone lived 900 years (using the Bible as one example), but in actuality may have been different people, within the same family, with the same name, especially since it was common to name the baby after the grandparent or great-grandparent.
Very interesting book, and not to dry.
Overall, however, this was a really fascinating read about what if the myths were descriptions of events happening like volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. The stories were mythologized because people didn't know how to scientifically describe things back then. Also discussed birthlines, heroes, and how it might seem like someone lived 900 years (using the Bible as one example), but in actuality may have been different people, within the same family, with the same name, especially since it was common to name the baby after the grandparent or great-grandparent.
Very interesting book, and not to dry.
April 25, 2021
The authors make a strong case for interpreting myths as stories about real events and experiences. Drawing on geology, astronomy, linguistics, archaeology, and literature, they find kernels of truth in various widespread myths (for instance, flood stories and versions of the Prometheus story) and propose a set of principles for understanding how and why a story that begins as factual narrative becomes myth.
Elizabeth Wayland Barber (half of the husband-wife author team) has written three other books, all of which I've found fascinating, which focus on the history of textiles). Her husband is best known for a book on the European vampire traditions--will have to find that next.
Elizabeth Wayland Barber (half of the husband-wife author team) has written three other books, all of which I've found fascinating, which focus on the history of textiles). Her husband is best known for a book on the European vampire traditions--will have to find that next.
July 30, 2012
Wonderful. Why didn't anyone teach me this? A completely readable and understandable explanation, with documentation, about why so many cultures have similar myths; why characters have similar names; why we get confused about the duplication of responsibilities among gods and goddesses; how and why new mythological characters were imagined; how we derived some English words from mythological characters; and, what happens when someone or some group tries to eliminate a cultural myth. A great explanation of cultural assimilation and religious myth.
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