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Dollanganger #3-4
If There Be Thorns / Seeds of Yesterday
Two books in one: If There Be Thorns and Seeds of Yesterday, from V.C. Andrews's classic series that begins with Flowers in the Attic.
816 pages, Paperback
First published June 22, 2010
61 people are currently reading
1146 people want to read
About the author
V.C. Andrews
370 books9,016 followersBooks published under the following names - Virginia Andrews, V. Andrews, Virginia C. Andrews & V.C. Endrius. Books since her death ghost written by Andrew Neiderman, but still attributed to the V.C. Andrews name
Virginia Cleo Andrews (born Cleo Virginia Andrews) was born June 6, 1923 in Portsmouth, Virginia. The youngest child and the only daughter of William Henry Andrews, a career navy man who opened a tool-and-die business after retirement, and Lillian Lilnora Parker Andrews, a telephone operator. She spent her happy childhood years in Portsmouth, Virginia, living briefly in Rochester, New York. The Andrews family returned to Portsmouth while Virginia was in high school.
While a teenager, Virginia suffered a tragic accident, falling down the stairs at her school and incurred severe back injuries. Arthritis and a failed spinal surgical procedure forced her to spend most of her life on crutches or in a wheelchair.
Virginia excelled in school and, at fifteen, won a scholarship for writing a parody of Tennyson's Idylls of the King. She proudly earned her diploma from Woodrow Wilson High School in Portsmouth. After graduation, she nurtured her artistic talent by completing a four-year correspondence art course while living at home with her family.
After William Andrews died in the late 1960s, Virginia helped to support herself and her mother through her extremely successful career as a commercial artist, portrait painter, and fashion illustrator.
Frustrated with the lack of creative satisfaction that her work provided, Virginia sought creative release through writing, which she did in secret. In 1972, she completed her first novel, The Gods of the Green Mountain [sic], a science-fantasy story. It was never published. Between 1972 and 1979, she wrote nine novels and twenty short stories, of which only one was published. "I Slept with My Uncle on My Wedding Night", a short fiction piece, was published in a pulp confession magazine.
Promise gleamed over the horizon for Virginia when she submitted a 290,000-word novel, The Obsessed, to a publishing company. She was told that the story had potential, but needed to be trimmed and spiced up a bit. She drafted a new outline in a single night and added "unspeakable things my mother didn't want me to write about." The ninety-eight-page revision was re-titled Flowers in the Attic and she was paid a $7,500 advance. Her new-generation Gothic novel reached the bestseller lists a mere two weeks after its 1979 paperback publication by Pocket Books.
Petals on the Wind, her sequel to Flowers, was published the next year, earning Virginia a $35,000 advance. The second book remained on the New York Times bestseller list for an unbelievable nineteen weeks (Flowers also returned to the list). These first two novels alone sold over seven million copies in only two years. The third novel of the Dollanganger series, If There Be Thorns, was released in 1981, bringing Virginia a $75,000 advance. It reached No. 2 on many bestseller lists within its first two weeks.
Taking a break from the chronicles of Chris and Cathy Dollanganger, Virginia published her one, and only, stand-alone novel, My Sweet Audrina, in 1982. The book welcomed an immediate success, topping the sales figures of her previous novels. Two years later, a fourth Dollanganger novel was released, Seeds of Yesterday. According to the New York Times, Seeds was the best-selling fiction paperback novel of 1984. Also in 1984, V.C. Andrews was named "Professional Woman of the Year" by the city of Norfolk, Virginia.
Upon Andrews's death in 1986, two final novels—Garden of Shadows and Fallen Hearts—were published. These two novels are considered the last to bear the "V.C. Andrews" name and to be almost completely written by
Virginia Cleo Andrews (born Cleo Virginia Andrews) was born June 6, 1923 in Portsmouth, Virginia. The youngest child and the only daughter of William Henry Andrews, a career navy man who opened a tool-and-die business after retirement, and Lillian Lilnora Parker Andrews, a telephone operator. She spent her happy childhood years in Portsmouth, Virginia, living briefly in Rochester, New York. The Andrews family returned to Portsmouth while Virginia was in high school.
While a teenager, Virginia suffered a tragic accident, falling down the stairs at her school and incurred severe back injuries. Arthritis and a failed spinal surgical procedure forced her to spend most of her life on crutches or in a wheelchair.
Virginia excelled in school and, at fifteen, won a scholarship for writing a parody of Tennyson's Idylls of the King. She proudly earned her diploma from Woodrow Wilson High School in Portsmouth. After graduation, she nurtured her artistic talent by completing a four-year correspondence art course while living at home with her family.
After William Andrews died in the late 1960s, Virginia helped to support herself and her mother through her extremely successful career as a commercial artist, portrait painter, and fashion illustrator.
Frustrated with the lack of creative satisfaction that her work provided, Virginia sought creative release through writing, which she did in secret. In 1972, she completed her first novel, The Gods of the Green Mountain [sic], a science-fantasy story. It was never published. Between 1972 and 1979, she wrote nine novels and twenty short stories, of which only one was published. "I Slept with My Uncle on My Wedding Night", a short fiction piece, was published in a pulp confession magazine.
Promise gleamed over the horizon for Virginia when she submitted a 290,000-word novel, The Obsessed, to a publishing company. She was told that the story had potential, but needed to be trimmed and spiced up a bit. She drafted a new outline in a single night and added "unspeakable things my mother didn't want me to write about." The ninety-eight-page revision was re-titled Flowers in the Attic and she was paid a $7,500 advance. Her new-generation Gothic novel reached the bestseller lists a mere two weeks after its 1979 paperback publication by Pocket Books.
Petals on the Wind, her sequel to Flowers, was published the next year, earning Virginia a $35,000 advance. The second book remained on the New York Times bestseller list for an unbelievable nineteen weeks (Flowers also returned to the list). These first two novels alone sold over seven million copies in only two years. The third novel of the Dollanganger series, If There Be Thorns, was released in 1981, bringing Virginia a $75,000 advance. It reached No. 2 on many bestseller lists within its first two weeks.
Taking a break from the chronicles of Chris and Cathy Dollanganger, Virginia published her one, and only, stand-alone novel, My Sweet Audrina, in 1982. The book welcomed an immediate success, topping the sales figures of her previous novels. Two years later, a fourth Dollanganger novel was released, Seeds of Yesterday. According to the New York Times, Seeds was the best-selling fiction paperback novel of 1984. Also in 1984, V.C. Andrews was named "Professional Woman of the Year" by the city of Norfolk, Virginia.
Upon Andrews's death in 1986, two final novels—Garden of Shadows and Fallen Hearts—were published. These two novels are considered the last to bear the "V.C. Andrews" name and to be almost completely written by
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 61 reviews
February 12, 2011
These two books were ok. I started to get really disgusted with the family. I mean how nasty can one person be before family members totally write them off? Bart is a disgusting human being in both books, but as an adult in Seeds of Yesterday he truly is deplorable. How many times can a person say/yell relationship damaging statements in the morning and by dinner it's as if all is forgiven? Bart at one point basically tells Jory on Christmas morning, that he hates him, oh and by the way I was banging your wife because you are a cripple. Really? And Jory dismisses this as Bart being Bart? Unfortunately there are hundreds of these types of situations in this book involving all characters and it's disappointing how an entire family tolerates it. Then suddenly at the end, Chris dies in a tragic accident and Bart is a preacher and all is wonderful with the world. I just don't get it...I know Barts salvation is based on his mother ending her relationship with Chris, her brother. But instead of leaving the house, the insanity, and abuse, Cathy puts up with it and continuously thinks, Bart will eventually come around. It's aggrivating to no end. Just my opinion.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
April 10, 2023
'If there be thorns' is the darkest, most troubling book in the series so far. The story is told alternately by Jory and Bart, and there is no need to label the chapters as Bart has a very distinct voice. I may have been confused by some of the plot, but I was never in doubt as to who was speaking.
It's a bit of a confusing read, as Bart is deeply troubled, often his memories of events change and his motivation is often hard to understand, but it makes him a fascinating character rather than inconsistent.
There are few other weaknesses in the plot, characters seem to forget what they've heard, or rely on weak lies that wouldn't hold up for years in real life. But other than that the plot is so disturbingly compelling that I was more concerned with seeing it through to the end rather than worrying about smaller issues.
'Seeds of Yesterday' is a good mix between the domestic dramas of the second book and the Gothic elements of the series, so it's a satisfying read but the character of Bart becomes even more unlikable and honestly it's quite frustrating to read through so many examples of religious hypocrisy, especially when other characters don't seem to understand the seriousness of some actions.
I know it's not a books job to make moral judgements, but I find the most disturbing parts of these books to be the bits of casual sexism and abuse that the characters just shrug off as if they're no big deal. The ending is sweet in a way, but there are a few plot elements that don't get a satisfactory resolution in my view, such as Bart's 'redemption'.
It's a bit of a confusing read, as Bart is deeply troubled, often his memories of events change and his motivation is often hard to understand, but it makes him a fascinating character rather than inconsistent.
There are few other weaknesses in the plot, characters seem to forget what they've heard, or rely on weak lies that wouldn't hold up for years in real life. But other than that the plot is so disturbingly compelling that I was more concerned with seeing it through to the end rather than worrying about smaller issues.
'Seeds of Yesterday' is a good mix between the domestic dramas of the second book and the Gothic elements of the series, so it's a satisfying read but the character of Bart becomes even more unlikable and honestly it's quite frustrating to read through so many examples of religious hypocrisy, especially when other characters don't seem to understand the seriousness of some actions.
I know it's not a books job to make moral judgements, but I find the most disturbing parts of these books to be the bits of casual sexism and abuse that the characters just shrug off as if they're no big deal. The ending is sweet in a way, but there are a few plot elements that don't get a satisfactory resolution in my view, such as Bart's 'redemption'.
December 17, 2010
This series is disturbingly addictive
October 1, 2016
And so ends the tale of the Dresden Dolls....
This book was very good and had such a variety of moments ranging from heartbreaking sadness to white hot rage. The ending had me shedding a few tears for Cathy.
One thing that annoyed me throughout this book/bind-up is the fact that Chris and Cathy never truly did anything to get Bart away from the terrible influences of John Amos in his (Bart's) childhood or Joel in his adulthood. They (mainly only Cathy) were suspicious of the two men, and at times hated them, but they never took any action to save Bart from their evilness, choosing instead to only sit by and occasionally argue about doing something. I, in part, blame them for Bart turning out the way he did.
I always found Cathy's relationship with her brother to be on the disturbing side, but that being said, I did shed a few tears when Chris died in the same way that their father did. The ending, and indeed the lives, of the Dresden Dolls was so incredibly sad and heartbreaking. Nothing ever seemed to go completely their way. First it was their mother's actions and her parents, then in their adulthood, it was Bart and his ability to be so easily influenced by evil, religious men.
The shining spot in this story was Jory. He had his own tragedies, but with help of his loving parents, he was able to overcome them and find new love in Toni along with his little twins.
The ending chapter and epilogue was so bittersweet. With Cathy constantly mentioning her past, I knew something had to happen in the attic again. Though it was never explicitly stated, I believe she ended her life with arsenic to be with Chris and her twin siblings where the grass grows purple. The details of the attic revealed in her suicide note were heartbreaking in and of themselves. I knew she talked about the attic frequently, but I didn't suspect that she had been going up there to decorate it, snail and worm thing and all. It's beautiful in a tragic kind of way.
This book was very good and had such a variety of moments ranging from heartbreaking sadness to white hot rage. The ending had me shedding a few tears for Cathy.
One thing that annoyed me throughout this book/bind-up is the fact that Chris and Cathy never truly did anything to get Bart away from the terrible influences of John Amos in his (Bart's) childhood or Joel in his adulthood. They (mainly only Cathy) were suspicious of the two men, and at times hated them, but they never took any action to save Bart from their evilness, choosing instead to only sit by and occasionally argue about doing something. I, in part, blame them for Bart turning out the way he did.
I always found Cathy's relationship with her brother to be on the disturbing side, but that being said, I did shed a few tears when Chris died in the same way that their father did. The ending, and indeed the lives, of the Dresden Dolls was so incredibly sad and heartbreaking. Nothing ever seemed to go completely their way. First it was their mother's actions and her parents, then in their adulthood, it was Bart and his ability to be so easily influenced by evil, religious men.
The shining spot in this story was Jory. He had his own tragedies, but with help of his loving parents, he was able to overcome them and find new love in Toni along with his little twins.
The ending chapter and epilogue was so bittersweet. With Cathy constantly mentioning her past, I knew something had to happen in the attic again. Though it was never explicitly stated, I believe she ended her life with arsenic to be with Chris and her twin siblings where the grass grows purple. The details of the attic revealed in her suicide note were heartbreaking in and of themselves. I knew she talked about the attic frequently, but I didn't suspect that she had been going up there to decorate it, snail and worm thing and all. It's beautiful in a tragic kind of way.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
May 21, 2016
I was actually surprised in some way, by how the story turned out. The last story, Seeds of Yesterday is a little less a stand alone novel, although the first story If there be Thorns, while more cohesive, takes a lot longer to develop into a story. What we have here is a recycling of themes from the first two novels: excessive Christianity, incest, love, sex and so on. What is difficult about the story is that while V.C. Andrews has a good sense of how characters work: they blurt out their motivations and reactions. In that sense dialogue is more about exposition than it is about actual people. The characters remain less actual personalities that have independent will than principles that are twisted within a context of ideas. What is surprising is the twist towards the end of the last story. Although the Dollanganger family children were victimized, they hide their self righteousness behind victimhood; the revelation Cathy has at the end, that victimhood does not excuse doing something wrong is meant to reverse the logic of the last trauma and undo the personality of the antagonist, Bart. Although this seems heavy handed because of the other character's acceptance, relative to Bart, the point is taken. Overall, the stories feel to me more like sketches than an actual fleshed out story. V.C. Andrews has a good sense of personal motivation but without actual personalities, the characters are more like different wills-incarnated than people.
April 13, 2022
These two books in the series were very enjoyable. When compared to the first two, however, they simply weren't as good. They were a bit predictable and Seeds of Yesterday's ending was disappointing. I was getting all geared up for an intense ending of the series, but it let me down. The ending was fine and enjoyable, just not the intense page turning I had anticipated. All in all I have loved this series and Andrews' writing style. I will miss the characters, even if they did get on my nerves off and on throughout the book lol but I think that's part of what makes a great author. I am exciting to now read the prequel!
June 22, 2014
*3.5 star rating*
These two books kept slapping me the whole way through. (gif from the new movie, by the way.)
I felt like V.C. Andrews was trying to create the luxury and amazingness that she did with the first two books in the Dollanganger series, but these two didn't really cut it. I was trying to remind myself of the feelings and love I had for the first two fantastic books, but I didn't feel a craze and adoration for these books. I feel like it has been dragged on for too long.
V.C. Andrews is an amazing author. Although she confuses us like hell (which all of us can understand once we read one of her books), her writing is like munching into your most favourite food. She can make things rough, sad and everything else in between with just the snap of her fingers. It's just the perfect effect she creates. So don't think I hated this book or anything, although I can't deny that it's my favourite novel, either.
After the craziness in the first two books and after we were left off with a pretty big cliffhanger in the end of the sequel, we jump straight into the future of Cathy and Chris's lives, where they are all grown up and are pure adults, and they are married. Yes, Andrews has absolutely gone CRAZY with this, but it's okay, I support it. This is written in the perspectives of their children, Jory and Bart. Well of course, Andrews mixes everything around and messes our minds up with many POVs. More drama, more messed up romance, but the same family is behind it all.
So I guess you could say that these two books weren't really needed at all, but since the rave for this series, V.C. Andrews came up with more ideas and cliffhangers and decided to write two more large books that deal with this family. But behind it all, these weren't really needed. It's all extra. The first two books are perfect for a duelogy. Just letting you know, there's one final book after this that takes place in the past in Olivia's POV. (And probably 5 more people's too.)
Andrews is an author who doesn't care about time and length. She just skips, skips and skips through everyone's lives, and leaves out the miniature details and just gives us the big plot twists and reveals a lot of shocking secrets that the characters are hiding. If There Be Thorns was when Jory was 14 and Bart was 10, and Seeds of Yesterday occurred when they were in their twenties and thirties and Cathy and Chris were in their fifties. So there must've been a decade where nothing big happened. Between the two books, the characters, including Cindy, all grew up and came to be someone. Ta da... But of course,
'Cause you all know, Mrs. Andrews adores to make us upset and cranky. But hey, she's a master at it. WARNING: You will get frustrated with this book, but it somewhat ends up all okay in the end. This is kind of the end of the series, anyway.
These two books didn't bore me at all. It was all fast-paced and moving. You're addicted because there's plot twists every page. The major problem was the confusion.
I just wish that Andrews just gave us a little more background information. I didn't know who was who, who's dad was who, what was the secret behind something, et cetera et cetera. It was just unbelievably confusing, and the most confused I was with a book for a long time. Okay, I'm not saying I want everything to be crystal clear, but I just wish we could've been told some things, instead of having to guess and find out that we were wrong the whole time.
Reading is part of understanding, and that affects a lot of the rating in a book and has to do with the plot as well. And I deducted a 1.5 out of 5 because of that, and of course a little because of the characters and imperfection as well.
This book wasn't perfect and neither were the characters. Bart just got on my nerves for stupidity and the way he believed that the whole world revolved around him and would do anything to have his mommy on his side 24/7. Jory was an absolute pleasure in the first book, but of course after the incident in Seeds of Yesterday, he was a wreck. Chris was "meh," and Cathy and Cindy were okay. It was a love-hate relationship with basically everyone.
"Sin is what women use to make a man weak. You've got to face up to certain facts. Inside of every man there is a weak, spineless streak, and woman know how to find it by taking off their clothes and using earthly pleasures to sap a man's strength by desire."
Oh, and did I mention that this WHOLE SERIES is utterly strange and completely weird? That was just the beginning of some weird quotes and statements that a grown man tells to a little boy (Bart) who actually ends up crazy in the end.
All in all, this is a spectacular, moving series that every master of YA should pick up to read. It's truly a classic and these two books are just adding to the greatness. Recommended but beware of the confusion.
These two books kept slapping me the whole way through. (gif from the new movie, by the way.)
I felt like V.C. Andrews was trying to create the luxury and amazingness that she did with the first two books in the Dollanganger series, but these two didn't really cut it. I was trying to remind myself of the feelings and love I had for the first two fantastic books, but I didn't feel a craze and adoration for these books. I feel like it has been dragged on for too long.
V.C. Andrews is an amazing author. Although she confuses us like hell (which all of us can understand once we read one of her books), her writing is like munching into your most favourite food. She can make things rough, sad and everything else in between with just the snap of her fingers. It's just the perfect effect she creates. So don't think I hated this book or anything, although I can't deny that it's my favourite novel, either.
After the craziness in the first two books and after we were left off with a pretty big cliffhanger in the end of the sequel, we jump straight into the future of Cathy and Chris's lives, where they are all grown up and are pure adults, and they are married. Yes, Andrews has absolutely gone CRAZY with this, but it's okay, I support it. This is written in the perspectives of their children, Jory and Bart. Well of course, Andrews mixes everything around and messes our minds up with many POVs. More drama, more messed up romance, but the same family is behind it all.
So I guess you could say that these two books weren't really needed at all, but since the rave for this series, V.C. Andrews came up with more ideas and cliffhangers and decided to write two more large books that deal with this family. But behind it all, these weren't really needed. It's all extra. The first two books are perfect for a duelogy. Just letting you know, there's one final book after this that takes place in the past in Olivia's POV. (And probably 5 more people's too.)
Andrews is an author who doesn't care about time and length. She just skips, skips and skips through everyone's lives, and leaves out the miniature details and just gives us the big plot twists and reveals a lot of shocking secrets that the characters are hiding. If There Be Thorns was when Jory was 14 and Bart was 10, and Seeds of Yesterday occurred when they were in their twenties and thirties and Cathy and Chris were in their fifties. So there must've been a decade where nothing big happened. Between the two books, the characters, including Cindy, all grew up and came to be someone. Ta da... But of course,
'Cause you all know, Mrs. Andrews adores to make us upset and cranky. But hey, she's a master at it. WARNING: You will get frustrated with this book, but it somewhat ends up all okay in the end. This is kind of the end of the series, anyway.
These two books didn't bore me at all. It was all fast-paced and moving. You're addicted because there's plot twists every page. The major problem was the confusion.
I just wish that Andrews just gave us a little more background information. I didn't know who was who, who's dad was who, what was the secret behind something, et cetera et cetera. It was just unbelievably confusing, and the most confused I was with a book for a long time. Okay, I'm not saying I want everything to be crystal clear, but I just wish we could've been told some things, instead of having to guess and find out that we were wrong the whole time.
Reading is part of understanding, and that affects a lot of the rating in a book and has to do with the plot as well. And I deducted a 1.5 out of 5 because of that, and of course a little because of the characters and imperfection as well.
This book wasn't perfect and neither were the characters. Bart just got on my nerves for stupidity and the way he believed that the whole world revolved around him and would do anything to have his mommy on his side 24/7. Jory was an absolute pleasure in the first book, but of course after the incident in Seeds of Yesterday, he was a wreck. Chris was "meh," and Cathy and Cindy were okay. It was a love-hate relationship with basically everyone.
"Sin is what women use to make a man weak. You've got to face up to certain facts. Inside of every man there is a weak, spineless streak, and woman know how to find it by taking off their clothes and using earthly pleasures to sap a man's strength by desire."
Oh, and did I mention that this WHOLE SERIES is utterly strange and completely weird? That was just the beginning of some weird quotes and statements that a grown man tells to a little boy (Bart) who actually ends up crazy in the end.
All in all, this is a spectacular, moving series that every master of YA should pick up to read. It's truly a classic and these two books are just adding to the greatness. Recommended but beware of the confusion.
September 23, 2023
Bart is NOT valid.
I cannot believe I stuck around for 5 generations of Foxworths and this crappy (and repetitive) plot! Curse the box set! Curse this crappy series!
I cannot believe I stuck around for 5 generations of Foxworths and this crappy (and repetitive) plot! Curse the box set! Curse this crappy series!
December 15, 2010
What to say about the third book in the addictive Dollanganger series. Well, first of all, as much as I tried to ignore it, there were a TON of typos in this novel; I get that some of the typos in Bart's narrative might have been intentional, and it wasn't so much that it was illegible by any means, but eventually I got tired of seeing typos in Jory's narrative too. Moving along, another complaint was Bart's overactive imagination; I know he was schizophrenic or something, and I know he really believed he was hunting tigers, not killing his childhood pet, but it got annoying that it was never clarified whether he did the terrible things Cathy and Chris believed him to have done. And also, after the first 30 pages, Andrews seemed to prove her point about the children over and over and over and over. Maybe she was trying to show us how ridiculously long Chris and Cathy ignored Bart's serious mental problems, but geez, we're not idiots, and I didn't appreciate having to hear the same old thing over and over. To complete my rant, I'll just say, the fact that their neighbor is who she is was not a surprise at all, and it was kind of annoying how the author tried to play it off as some big shocker and all. Okay, rant done. To highlight some great parts: I loved Chris's behavior toward Cathy, how he stopped acting like she was some saint. She had a bitch-slap coming for some time, and it was great to hear him give it to her. I loved when her past caught up with her; Cathy's insane past love life was ridiculous, and i was glad to see how finally someone noticed their huge, obvious web of lies. And finally, I love, love, loved the ending. How great it felt to see an end to their horrible pasts. It wasn't a great book, and it seemed like a few hundred pages were wasted on proving a point we could've gotten in a quarter of the pages used, but it definitely kept me hooked, and the ending once again left me craving more.
2.5 stars and a recommendation to fans of the series.
--
Just when I thought the Dollanganger family tree couldn't get any more twisted, Seeds of Yesterday comes around. When I realized Cathy wrote this book too, I was torn between groaning and falling asleep. I love Cathy, don't get me wrong, but jeez, it didn't seem right to give her another book, when the main focus was clearly her children, Bart and Jory. Okay, so here's where If There Be Thorns left off: Bart was a pain in the butt and went psycho, killing animals and pissing off John Amos, causing Foxworth Hall to finally burn down. Okay, so maybe it was asking too much of the author to expect Foxworth Hall to remain burned down, because this fourth book in the series opens with Cathy and Chris arriving at Foxworth Hall. That ticked me off a little; how much backtracking can you do, Andrews? Moving right along, I absolutely loved Jory in this novel; in the first he was a little too peppy for me, Bart's insanity-laced rants more my style. But in Seeds of Yesterday, he's married and, of course, pursued his mother's dream of him becoming a ballet dancer. He's married to Melodie, who was trouble, I just knew it. Bart was some sort of billionaire, though the author didn't really elaborate as to how he got his money. One of the main focuses was the conflict between Bart and Jory and CIndy, and I loved that aspect; Bart was a character who screwed everything up, in a great, interesting way. Another main focus of this novel was Bart's obsession with getting his grandmother's money, seeing as she burned to death in the book before. One thing that really, really bugged me about this book: at the end of the last book, Cathy screamed to their mother's grave that she forgave her; about five pages into this book, Cathy says how she could never forgive her. WTF? Anyways, this book was the second best in the series in my opinion. The main improvement had to be more of a shifted focus, to Bart and Jory. Their story was only slightly less disturbing than Cathy and Chris', but it was still lighter. While Bart was a man-ho, he slowly turned into my favorite character. While Jory remained static much like Chris and Cathy, Bart was constantly changing, morphing my view of him. He was evil, insane, and a genius at first; then he was a lost, child-like adult who just needed help. No matter what else was happening, you didn't really know what Bart was going to do. My final complaint: the ending was so dang happily-ever-after I wanted to scream. I got that after tragedy struck, everyone realized their mistakes and moved on with their lives. But, really, was it necessary to make Bart and Cindy sing hymns together? It just seemed like a cheesy wrap-up to a dark, despairing series. Maybe she was going for the whole Chris was an optimist, so let's end his story optimistically spin, but I was disappointed. In a non-sadistic way. (Sorry for the long review).
4 stars and a recommendation to fans of the series. I recommend the series to fans of dark tragedies. I'll admit to having cried at the end of this one, before the cheesiness set in.
2.5 stars and a recommendation to fans of the series.
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Just when I thought the Dollanganger family tree couldn't get any more twisted, Seeds of Yesterday comes around. When I realized Cathy wrote this book too, I was torn between groaning and falling asleep. I love Cathy, don't get me wrong, but jeez, it didn't seem right to give her another book, when the main focus was clearly her children, Bart and Jory. Okay, so here's where If There Be Thorns left off: Bart was a pain in the butt and went psycho, killing animals and pissing off John Amos, causing Foxworth Hall to finally burn down. Okay, so maybe it was asking too much of the author to expect Foxworth Hall to remain burned down, because this fourth book in the series opens with Cathy and Chris arriving at Foxworth Hall. That ticked me off a little; how much backtracking can you do, Andrews? Moving right along, I absolutely loved Jory in this novel; in the first he was a little too peppy for me, Bart's insanity-laced rants more my style. But in Seeds of Yesterday, he's married and, of course, pursued his mother's dream of him becoming a ballet dancer. He's married to Melodie, who was trouble, I just knew it. Bart was some sort of billionaire, though the author didn't really elaborate as to how he got his money. One of the main focuses was the conflict between Bart and Jory and CIndy, and I loved that aspect; Bart was a character who screwed everything up, in a great, interesting way. Another main focus of this novel was Bart's obsession with getting his grandmother's money, seeing as she burned to death in the book before. One thing that really, really bugged me about this book: at the end of the last book, Cathy screamed to their mother's grave that she forgave her; about five pages into this book, Cathy says how she could never forgive her. WTF? Anyways, this book was the second best in the series in my opinion. The main improvement had to be more of a shifted focus, to Bart and Jory. Their story was only slightly less disturbing than Cathy and Chris', but it was still lighter. While Bart was a man-ho, he slowly turned into my favorite character. While Jory remained static much like Chris and Cathy, Bart was constantly changing, morphing my view of him. He was evil, insane, and a genius at first; then he was a lost, child-like adult who just needed help. No matter what else was happening, you didn't really know what Bart was going to do. My final complaint: the ending was so dang happily-ever-after I wanted to scream. I got that after tragedy struck, everyone realized their mistakes and moved on with their lives. But, really, was it necessary to make Bart and Cindy sing hymns together? It just seemed like a cheesy wrap-up to a dark, despairing series. Maybe she was going for the whole Chris was an optimist, so let's end his story optimistically spin, but I was disappointed. In a non-sadistic way. (Sorry for the long review).
4 stars and a recommendation to fans of the series. I recommend the series to fans of dark tragedies. I'll admit to having cried at the end of this one, before the cheesiness set in.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
March 21, 2020
This book took me a while to finish, mostly because I wasn't a huge fan on who the main character was. The ending for some reason wasn't as shocking as I thought if would be....
March 14, 2013
So I picked up this book because I was looking for a book that would last me awhile, ( I usually finish other books within a day or two) At first I was a little disturbed at the book, but when everything rolled together in the end and started to make sense, it all became very real for me. In fact, as I was finishing the book I was sitting in the living room with my father who questioned my tears when Christopher died... it took me an hour to explain the whole plot to him but it was well worth it. The ending of this book left me feeling torn apart and broken. I don't know about you guys but, did anyone else have questions? Like who paralysed Jory and wanted him dead? What about Joel? Did Bart ever find anyone? Or become a decent person?
Overall I really enjoyed reading and living this book.
Overall I really enjoyed reading and living this book.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
March 3, 2014
So sad that I've finished this series. It was addicting and very difficult to put down. I grew to love the characters like they were old friends. Imagining their hair grey and their wrinkles appear as Cathy went from a little 12 year old girl to an middle aged women in her fifties. This is a series I will always love and connect with. It allows you to paint the pictures of the story and recreate the scenes of the character you think you know so well. It's never boring or dry you never know what will happen as tragedy happen behind every page turned. This is definitely a series all should check out.
October 26, 2011
These books are amazing sequels to Flowers In The Attic, and Petals On The Wind. If you haven't read any of those 4 books, I demand you pick them up today! Beautiful story that would make one feel the pain of the 4 Dollanganger Children!
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July 10, 2019I would give this book a five out of five star rating. I would give this rating because this book is one of the longest books I have ever read but it has also been one of the best. this book is totally up my alley and the definition of a great romance book.
The most engaging parts of the book to me is when the characters are going through some kind of dilemma and I want to see how it ended. In specific my favorite dilemma they had was when Jory was doing a dance and a pillar of wet sand fell on him and he broke his back, because of that his wife left him for his brother and he could not dance anymore.
This book related to my hero's journey because it taught me that being consumed by wealth can cloud your judgment and make you do very bad things, and hurt the people you love. This is a lesson that I will remember for the rest of my life.
This book changed me as a reader because it taught me that even if you see that a book is very long or that it has complicated language, you should still challenge yourself to read it.
I would recommend this book to anyone who like me, enjoys an intriguing romance novel. I would do this because even if the book has a lot of really dark parts and teachings it says a beautiful but misunderstood romance between two of our favorite characters.
The most engaging parts of the book to me is when the characters are going through some kind of dilemma and I want to see how it ended. In specific my favorite dilemma they had was when Jory was doing a dance and a pillar of wet sand fell on him and he broke his back, because of that his wife left him for his brother and he could not dance anymore.
This book related to my hero's journey because it taught me that being consumed by wealth can cloud your judgment and make you do very bad things, and hurt the people you love. This is a lesson that I will remember for the rest of my life.
This book changed me as a reader because it taught me that even if you see that a book is very long or that it has complicated language, you should still challenge yourself to read it.
I would recommend this book to anyone who like me, enjoys an intriguing romance novel. I would do this because even if the book has a lot of really dark parts and teachings it says a beautiful but misunderstood romance between two of our favorite characters.
May 23, 2020
Just finished reading “IF THERE BE THORNS” by V.C. ANDREWS .. Book Three of the Dollanganger Family series. I read this book while listening to the audible version narrated by COREY BRILL & JOY OSMANSKI. Three of the Dollanganger series that began with FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC—the novel of forbidden love that captured the world’s imagination and earned V.C. ANDREWS a fiercely devoted fanbase. They hide the shocking truth to protect their children. But someone who knows their dark secret is watching. Christopher and Cathy have made a loving home for their handsome and talented teenager Jory, their imaginative nine-year-old Bart, and a sweet baby daughter. Then an elderly woman and her strange butler move in next door. The Old Woman in Black watches from her window, lures lonely Bart inside with cookies and ice cream, and asks him to call her “grandmother.” Slowly Bart transforms, each visit pushing him closer to the edge of madness and violence, while his anguished parents can only watch. For Cathy and Chris, the horrors of the past have come home…and everything they love may soon be torn from them. These books grab you from the first page and won’t let you go! Un-put-downable! And the movies do the same!
September 7, 2023
Books Three and Four of the Dollanganger series are definitely not my favorite. Although, I think it does a decent job at tying up the series. If There Be Thorns switches in between Cathy’s children Jory and Bart’s perspective and then Seeds of Yesterday bounces back to Cathy. Out of these two, If There Be Thorns was more of a page turner for me. The story line was interesting and showed the progression and affects of Cathy and Chris’s relationship through the children’s perspective. Whereas Seeds of Yesterday kinda left me unimpressed. There was a lot going on for not much to actually happen. There was a few omg points in it but overall I did not love it as much as the others. I feel like the build up was a let down in the end. :( I still loved the series though it did not change my overall opinion on it as a whole.
December 7, 2018
The unrelenting ugliness of this saga has a surprising ending that's fittingly haunting. I liked Seeds better than Thorns, but by that point there are several complaints I have about the characters: Bart is supposed to be first in his class at Harvard Law yet he's stupider than a lump of sh*t, hypocrisy and foolish blindness aside, and like victims in a bad horror movie, you think that family would have ditched Bart and moved out of that haunted house by the end of chapter 3... yet, unlike those stories, the ending, which doesn't really answer the questions one might have about Joel's involvement in the tragedy, does come unexpectedly. Plenty of bad parenting and weakness of character, but of course, that's what the author was going for to get across the morals at the center of the story.
February 1, 2021
The third and fourth installments of the Dollanganger series were very intriguing. I could NOT put it down. I just absolutely HAD to know what happened next! Chris and Cathy are the dreamiest form of sin that nobody would ever wish for.
April 22, 2021
I technically did not finish this book but it was due back at the library and they wouldn’t let me check it out again so my sister-in-law will have to let me read the series because she has the whole thing and one day I hope to on the whole series
June 23, 2022
If there be thorns: ⭐️⭐️⭐️
Seeds of yesterday: ⭐️⭐️⭐️
Torn on whether to give seeds of yesterday 3 or 4 stars.. think I’ll just stick with 3 because of all the women shaming.. These two books just dragged out too much and the asshat character Bart didn’t help that at all..
Seeds of yesterday: ⭐️⭐️⭐️
Torn on whether to give seeds of yesterday 3 or 4 stars.. think I’ll just stick with 3 because of all the women shaming.. These two books just dragged out too much and the asshat character Bart didn’t help that at all..
August 11, 2017
Excellent book!!! I did not expect that ending at all, but then again, you can never tell what twist V.C will throw at you. I can't wait to read the next one.
June 24, 2020
These are some of my all time favorite books! I will definitely be rereading in the future. A little sick and twisted but in the best way! Highly recommend. My favorite author.
February 9, 2021
The best way to end the series for sure :)
May 2, 2021
didnt finish it maybe soon
November 15, 2021
Ugh hated that it ended..If there Be Thorns was amazing as well as Seeds of Yesterday...hard to put down for sure.
November 10, 2024
I really enjoyed seeds of yesterday, even if at times I wanted to scream at the Cathy to get her shit together and be a grownup.
July 19, 2025
Oh Bart!!! He frustrated me so, but I love this saga.
October 21, 2025
Mainly cause I really didn’t expect that ending.
June 4, 2020
Just finished reading “SEEDS OF YESTERDAY” by V.C. ANDREWS .. Book Four of the Dollanganger Family series. I read this book while listening to the audible version narrated by COREY BRILL & JOY OSMANSKI. Now a major Lifetime movie event—Book Four of the Dollanganger series that began with FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC—the novel of forbidden love that captured the world’s imagination and earned V.C. ANDREWS a fiercely devoted fanbase. They escaped their mother’s hellish trap years ago, but a cruel history of lies and deceit has come full circle…The forbidden love that blossomed when Cathy and Christopher were held captive in Foxworth Hall is one the Dollanganger family’s darkest secrets. Now, with three grown children and even a new last name, the pair seem to have outlived a twisted legacy. But on their son Bart’s twenty-fifth birthday, when the spiteful and disturbed young man claims his rightful inheritance, the full, shattering truth of their tainted past will be revealed at Foxworth Hall—the place where the nightmare began, and where Christopher and Cathy were once just innocent flowers in the attic…I love this series and the movies as well!
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