The United States of Atlantis

Atlantis #2

by Harry Turtledove, Todd McLaren (Narrator)

England has driven the French from Atlantis, giving King George leave to tighten his control over the colonies. The Redcoats have seized the continent's eastern coastal towns, depriving the Atlanteans of the markets where they sell their goods as part of a strategy to bend the colonists to their will. Instead, England's tactics have only strengthened the Atlanteans' resolve to be free. As leader of the revolutionaries, Victor Radcliff will make the English pay for each and every piece of land they dare to occupy, and will stop at nothing to preserve the liberty of his people as a new nation is born-a nation that will change the face of the world.

Genres: Alternate History, Fiction, Fantasy, Science Fiction, Historical Fiction, Speculative Fiction, Science Fiction Fantasy

Audio CD

First published January 1, 2008

About the author

Dr Harry Norman Turtledove is an American novelist, who has produced a sizeable number of works in several genres including alternate history, historical fiction, fantasy and science fiction.

Harry Turtledove attended UCLA, where he received a Ph.D. in Byzantine history in 1977.

Turtledove has been dubbed "The Master of Alternate History". Within this genre he is known both for creating original scenarios: such as survival of the Byzantine Empire; an alien invasion in the middle of the World War II; and for giving a fresh and original treatment to themes previously dealt with by other authors, such as the victory of the South in the American Civil War; and of Nazi Germany in the Second World War.

His novels have been credited with bringing alternate history into the mainstream. His style of alternate history has a strong military theme.

Reviews

[Tim · Rating 1 out of 5]

I "read" this by listening to the audiobook during my commutes this summer. At first I was excited by the idea of alternate history, thinking that there would be many thought-provoking ideas and what-ifs to ponder. Instead, we got a rewrite of the American Revolution with different names for people and characters and a few minor plot twists.
Had the characters been more engaging and more than just a little bit deeper than cardboard, the book would have been more worth it. Had this had a truly interesting twist like the redcoats winning, it could have been an opportunity to ponder the implications of winners writing history. Alas, no such interesting element was present.
I found myself continually suppressing irritation with the writing style, too. Turtledove seems not to have kept track of when and where he introduced a new idea. On no fewer than six (I lost count) separate occasions we are told, for the first time apparently, that honkers and oil thrushes used to be more plentiful in the eastern settlements but were now increasing rare. There were a similar number of grade school-biology level discussions of the relationships among the various birds and of the curious lack of fur covered viviparous quadrupeds (excepting bats). It was the same story with explaining how the Atlantean soldiers sketched their salutes, and this would never have been tolerated by the European general, but the Atlanteans were an independent lot, blah, blah, blah... (Tell us once or twice, but then move on, please!)
Finally, there was a decided lack of realism in the relationships: between Victor Radcliff and Blaise and between Radcliff as a general and his soldiers in particular. They reminded me of my own attempts at novel writing during high-school. Victor was a great man in Atlantean history, but his greatness does not show in his person which felt to me like an over-grown adolescent. It recalls to mind reading The Sword of Shannara, which when I read it as a 12 year old was the best book ever, but when I reread it in my 30's I could barely finish. I would probably have enjoyed reading the United States of Atlantis in Jr. High, but I could hardly recommend it to anyone who is looking for great, or even good, literature.

[Marla · Rating 3 out of 5]

The name Atlantis and alternate history, what's not to like. Add in that the east coast of the US is a separate continent between the rest of North America and Europe and of course I was going to read this series. =) I'm not sure plate tectonics would allow for something like to happen, but that's just nitpicking. =P

I like that it's not just about the new continent and how things might have gone differently, but it's also the Radcliffe/Radcliff family. I liked the first one, Opening Atlantis, a bit more because it was three different time periods and three different members of the Radcliffe family in one book while this one just follows Victor Radcliff, who was in the first book too, in their version of the Revolutionary War.

I'm not a Revolutionary War buff so I don't know if some of the battles were the same, but with different names. Though I did realize that Custis Cawthorne was the Benjamin Franklin equivalent and that Habakkuk Biddiscombe was the Benedict Arnold equivalent.

[Nadienne Williams · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is less a re-telling of the American Revolution as much as it is the personal Revolutionary War campaign history of one General Victor Radcliff, a sort of George Washington analogue for the setting. I'm not used to a Harry Turtledove story in which the entire story is told from the point of view of one, and only one, character, but here it is.

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that the Atlanteans win, the Assembly becomes a Senate, and two Consuls now lead the United States of Atlantis, of which Radcliff is one.

[Joe · Rating 1 out of 5]

Turtledove literally just took the American Revolution and changed some names. Why write that book? What is the point? I mean, it's Atlantis! You couldn't think of anything interesting to do with Atlantis!

[Krishna Shah · Rating 3 out of 5]

An interesting tale that blends a new tale based on some history. I liked it and the characters are well written and not perfect.

[Nathan Miller · Rating 3 out of 5]

It should be no surprise that this book is a stand-in for the American Revolution and the conditions and events that lead up to it. As such, I found it somewhat less than whelming. I'm aware that the precursors to the real-world American Revolution were complicated. Yet Turtledove more or less distills this down to a continent populated with anarchists--Atlantis rebelled because they didn't want to be told what to do, basically, "We don't wanna!" which is hardly compelling in fiction and even less so in real life. I found the battle scenes to be realistic enough. Some of the characters are clearly based on better-known figures in real history, but I'd have to brush up on my history to be more aware of what else Turtledove put in there. And, well, I found his writing style in this one to be intermittently grating.

[Clare · Rating 3 out of 5]

For someone who really enjoys military strategies and campaigns this would make an intriguing read. I, however, was not enamored of sloughing through a long military campaign entailing all the ploys, diversions, training, politics, battles and sieges. I found myself putting the novel down often and finding other books to read.
That said, as an alternative history tale it was done well and I appreciated that Mr. Turtledove chose to keep his language clean, using phrases to hint at vulgar swearing but never coming right out with the words in print. Also, even though it took me a long time to get to the end the story was interesting enough to get me to finish.

[Walt Crawford · Rating 4 out of 5]

Since the spoiler's in the title... I read this (the second book in Turtledove's Atlantis trilogy) after the third one, and that worked just fine. I found this one a little more detailed than I might have liked, but it was still a good story, well told. Not much more to say.

[Pam · Rating 1 out of 5]

I picked this up at a little book kiosk because the summary sounded interesting. About 100 pages in, I gave up. So while I've marked this as 'read.' I did not finish it. Couldn't. All due respect to the author and those who liked it.

[Darin · Rating 2 out of 5]

I just couldn't get it to it. blah. Trudge trudge. wasted my time even finishing it.

[Fred · Rating 4 out of 5]

Very good sequel

[M. Blakelylaw · Rating 5 out of 5]

To my mind, Harry Turtledove is the pre-eminent author of alternate history stories, and this book is no exception.

[Ray · Rating 5 out of 5]

Thorougly enjoyed this book. Entertaining alternative history. So good I will be hunting the prequel and and any sequels.

[Michael Toleno · Rating 3 out of 5]

Book 2 of the trilogy, mailed to me through a "books for soldiers" program when I was in Djibouti 2011–2012. Very enjoyable alternate history, but a slower read than the other Turtledove books that I had read previously. (See my earlier books, which I will eventually enter.) I have nothing negative to say about the series except that for some reason I was slower to get through this series than others. I'm saving the four- and five-star rating for weightier material.

[Aaron · Rating 5 out of 5]

Turtledove continues this alternate history series, which kicked off with Opening Atlantis, that places everything east of the Mississippi River as a separate continent in this volume. The Radcliffe/Radcliff family that has played such a major role in settling the large island since the 1500s continues to have a big influence as the colonist feel a need to throw off the yoke of British oppression because they are feeling as if they are being unfairly taxed.

Victor Radcliff, who has some previous military experience along sign the Brits in the form of General Howe during their battles with the southern French colonies years earlier. Now, he has been asked by the colonial leadership to command the armies of Atlantis in their fight. The British army is to be led by General Howe (and later General Cornwallis). It creates and interesting relationship between the leaderships, which was probably not all that different as those during our own Revolution in which our military leaders probably had experience with the British commanders during the French and Indian Wars.

This book is different than its predecessor in that rather than spanning hundreds of years, the whole book focuses on just the Revolutionary period. This allows the readers to get to know the primary characters as being more than historical "greats." Victor is joined by the African American former slave and his good friend Blaise.

Turtledove does a wonderful job of presenting the complexities of war during the time period as well as highlighting the horrible results of the weaponry. Thomas Paine, the Marquis de la Fayette, Baron de Stael, and a number of other real historical personages make appearances as well as a number of people that could recall Benjamin Franklin and Benedict Arnold can be seen.

As with most of Turtledove's books, it is fun to see how history could have been different, but it really excels by presenting the events from the perspectives of his protagonists. Readers get to experience the history through these characters.

[Angus · Rating 3 out of 5]

Harry Turtledove's writing is not impressive. In fact, I would not read his novels if they were not so original - so unique. There is very little other alternate history on the market, so one must make do with what one has.
For one thing, Turtledove repeats himself endlessly. He gets one theme - say, the weather in Atlantis - and latches on to this theme like a leach, hashing it out endlessly. The Atlantean weather was described in great detail at least five or six separate times throughout the book - and each repetition told us literally nothing that we did not already know. Turtledove has many of these themes that get very old very quickly.
Apart from this, Turtledove's writing is just full of little amateurish mistakes, stuff that really should have been edited out. If one added up all the times he used useless and unnecessary phrases in the book, you would have a number of words probably equaling the word count of the complete works of Shakespeare, plus "War and Peace." (Maybe a slight exaggeration).
Writing and style aside, Turtledove seems to be an accomplished historian; I say this because he has the historian's knack of looking at a scenario and being able to accurately predict what would have happened in that scenario, based on history's hindsight and experience.
The story of the Atlantean Revolution mirrored the story of the American Revolution a little to closely for my taste, however. Not to give too much away, but Turtledove, in places, could have been copying an American history textbook.
Overall, this book contained entertainment, annoyingly amateur writing, and interesting alternate history in equal parts. As Abraham Lincoln once brilliantly said: "For those who like this kind of thing, this is the kind of thing they like." In the face of such witty rhetoric, I have nothing more to add.

[Lianne Burwell · Rating 2 out of 5]

You don't read Harry Turtledove for the plots, and you certainly don't read them for the characters, since both are cardboard. You read him for the ideas. What if aliens invaded during WWII? What if a second Civil War divided the States in two. What if WWI was fought with dragons?

In this series, what if the east coast of North America, from Florida to Nova Scotia, were a separate landmass, between Europe and the rest of North America? Close enough to be found and settled by fishermen.

In Opening Atlantis, it basically followed the finding and settling of Atlantis, up to a battle between the English and the French over control.

This book is basically a retelling of the American Revolution, with thinly disguised versions of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and other historical figures. And when the third book, Liberating Atlantis, comes out, I'd guess that it would be the Civil War over freeing the slaves redone.

I was disappointed with this volume, though. It picks up some years after book one, with the same Radcliff character (descendant of the first settlers) and his best buddy, Blaise, an escaped slave. Almost immediately, Radcliff is recruited to lead the Atlantis army when the English king starts imposing taxes that people aren't willing to pay.

From there, we get battle after battle, conversations over slavery, a dalliance with a slave that gets pregnant and almost destroys his marriage, a version of Benedict Arnold.

But really, there's no *novel*. Just a string of battles.

Hopefully book three will be better.

[Brad McKenna · Rating 3 out of 5]

This was my first foray into Mr. Turtledove and his alternative history.

In the stead of America, Atlantis rebels against Britain. Instead of George Washington, there's Victor Radcliff. Some historical figures do appear such as General Cornwallis, Thomas Paine, and The Marquis de Lafayette. Perhaps because Atlantis is smaller than America, the combating armies fought fewer battles and there was only one contingent, Radcliff's. There was no Nathaniel Green (or anyone else) to lead another division of troops.

Oil thrushes and honkers, both birds, were really the only two mentions of something that doesn't exist. I wasn't expecting mermaids or magic but I was a wee be disappointed by how easily it would be to pass the story off as simply a lesser known colonial revolt in history. The one very interesting part was the emphasis on the problem of slavery. Radcliff has a black second-in-command who he freed from slavery, Blaise. They get into some interesting debates about the ramifications of slavery.

I'd probably read another one, because the writing style was good and it was a quick read. Plus, it wasn't until after I started that I realized this was book #2 in the series. Perhaps, I'll try a different period-in-time and start with book #1.

[Carl · Rating 5 out of 5]

United States of Atlantis answers the mysteries of the History of America through an alternate time line due to a change in the current state of the globe. How the discovery of the New world, this time around being Atlantis, the Eastern coast of America broken off and sitting in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Told through the eyes of Victor Radcliff, descendent of the founders of Atlantis, and due to British rule over the new land, the colonists grew tired of tax and rule from another country, began a rebellion. The rebellion evolved into a state of war with Victor leading the front. All memorable battles of the American civil war are told through the new perspective of the Atlanteans.

I enjoyed the Book thanks to its fast paced action and almost familiar story. The stories of Atlantis fight for freedom against British rule. The perspective told about the General Victor Radcliff who led the Atlanteans to victory.

I recommend this story to those who like Action stories about war and strategy, and to also those who like history and want to delve deeper into the alternate paths our world could have gone in.

[Monique · Rating 4 out of 5]

I thought The United States of Atlantis was an interesting alternate history of the American Revolution. I thought it was interesting that Turtledove chose to retain the names of the places and people that lived in Europe during the time, but created names for the Atlantean patriots and based them upon American Revolution figures. For example, Victor Radcliff(e) (the main character) is the Atlantean George Washington whereas Custis Cawthorne is that universe's version of Ben Franklin. One thing I disliked was a lack of maps; it would have been nice to have some sort of guide to how the geography in Atlantis is laid out, esp. for the battle scenes and the different cities and towns visited by the characters. Despite this issue, Atlantis was a good book and I look forward to reading other books in this series.

[Amaranth · Rating 3 out of 5]

I thought that the world was pretty planned out and the concept interesting. I liked reading about the Washington-like character in Voctor Radcliff and all the changes that came from having America Atlantis. It was also interesting to read about the thoughts of Victor during the battles and his conversations with other people that reveal the man, and not just the historical figure that he would later become. However the book was a bit droll at times describing battle after battle until the British are eventually weathered down, which stuck closely with real-life events. The brief dialogue between characters were interesting, but a bot digressive sometimes, making me feel like there would be a sequel. It was a good read, though not one I might read again and again.

[Joel Flank · Rating 4 out of 5]

Turtledove returns to the continent of Atlantis, a mere decades after the previous book in the series. This second book is a single story about the revolution of the colonies against King George of England. After excessive burdens on the Atlantians without representation in the English government, Atlantis declares independence, and chooses Victor Radcliffe as their general. The book describes in wonderful deal an alternate revolutionary war, with Victor in the role of Washington, and events that roughly parallel those in the American colonies. Along the way, there are challenges in assembling an army that can stand against the professional forces of the Redcoats, as well as dealing with issues of supply and logistics against a foe that not only is well supplied, but controls the sea.

[Karl Schaeffer · Rating 3 out of 5]

OK, lots of folks don't like this series, saying that Turtledove is coasting in this series, making too many direct references to the America Revolution. Given the fact that the World War and Civil War series blew my mind, this one seems a bit pedestrian, but I still enjoyed it. The thing about this book that tickled me was the discussion between Victor Radcliff and Lafayette had their discussion about french men's belief that they can take any women they want. I was reading this when Dominique Strauss-Kahn was being arrested for improper advances on the hotel maid. Turtledove captured the french concept of noblesse oblige perfectly. On to the third book!

[Nichole · Rating 2 out of 5]

I could barely get through this, the premise is interesting, that's why I made it this far in the series. But the writing is just so repetitive and bland that I just can not see myself being able to finish the other books. There is only so many time I can read about this guy thinking about the same five animals and plants and ideas over and over and over in the exact same way before I want to rip my own hair out.

[Hilary · Rating 1 out of 5]

What exactly is the point of an alternate history if you're mostly just going to change the names of the places and major players from actual history? Oh, I know, so you can spend an inordinate amount of time on George Washington knocking up a slave without upsetting people who worship the Founding Fathers.

I don't think actual Revolutionary War soldiers were more relieved than I was when this fake war ended.

[Jack · Rating 3 out of 5]

It would have been nice to have a map of Atlantis. He mentions tons of places and we have nothing to go on.
This is actually retelling of the American Revolution with a couple of twists - Turtledove style.
But to be honest I'm getting a little tired of his re-working history - - it just doesn't have the zip to it like other books.

[Baron Greystone · Rating 2 out of 5]

Picked it up because I'm a fan of Atlantis stories. I saw it was more like a US revolutionary war novel instead, but thought it might contain some surprises that might be more along my line. Nope. It was pretty shallow and dry going. Much of it was just going over the same ground again and again. Not my cup of tea.

[Dale · Rating 5 out of 5]

It was a pretty fantastic book, if you like alternative history novels. It wasn't as good as the first book in the series, but it was still amazing. I would recommend it to anyone who like alternative histories. Reading the first book in the series isn't "necessary," but it will give you some background on some of the characters.

[David · Rating 5 out of 5]

With the War between Britain and the United States of Atlantis over the Government of the United States of Atlantis decided to rule using the Roman Republic as a model. They elect Victor Radcliff the hero of the War with Britain one of the first two Consuls of the Republic servicing a term of two years unlike the one year that a Roman Consul serviced.

[Thomas · Rating 2 out of 5]

I think Turtledove is getting worse as he ages. Reading this was such a chore, it was almost painful. If the ideas behind it weren't so interesting, it would have been chucked around page 20. And why would you publish a series like this without a map?