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Rama #2
Rama II
Years ago, the enormous, enigmatic alien spacecraft called Rama sailed through our solar system as mind-boggling proof that life existed -- or had existed -- elsewhere in the universe. Now, at the dawn of the twenty-third century, another ship is discovered hurtling toward us. A crew of Earth's best and brightest minds is assembled to rendezvous with the massive vessel. They are armed with everything we know about Raman technology and culture. But nothing can prepare them for what they are about to encounter on board Rama II: cosmic secrets that are startling, sensational -- and perhaps even deadly.
466 pages, Paperback
First published November 1, 1989
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8981 people want to read
About the author
Arthur C. Clarke
1,652 books11.6k followersStories, works of noted British writer, scientist, and underwater explorer Sir Arthur Charles Clarke, include
2001: A Space Odyssey
(1968).
This most important and influential figure in 20th century fiction spent the first half of his life in England and served in World War II as a radar operator before migrating to Ceylon in 1956. He co-created his best known novel and movie with the assistance of Stanley Kubrick.
Clarke, a graduate of King's College, London, obtained first class honours in physics and mathematics. He served as past chairman of the interplanetary society and as a member of the academy of astronautics, the royal astronomical society, and many other organizations.
He authored more than fifty books and won his numerous awards: the Kalinga prize of 1961, the American association for the advancement Westinghouse prize, the Bradford Washburn award, and the John W. Campbell award for his novel Rendezvous with Rama. Clarke also won the nebula award of the fiction of America in 1972, 1974 and 1979, the Hugo award of the world fiction convention in 1974 and 1980. In 1986, he stood as grand master of the fiction of America. The queen knighted him as the commander of the British Empire in 1989.
This most important and influential figure in 20th century fiction spent the first half of his life in England and served in World War II as a radar operator before migrating to Ceylon in 1956. He co-created his best known novel and movie with the assistance of Stanley Kubrick.
Clarke, a graduate of King's College, London, obtained first class honours in physics and mathematics. He served as past chairman of the interplanetary society and as a member of the academy of astronautics, the royal astronomical society, and many other organizations.
He authored more than fifty books and won his numerous awards: the Kalinga prize of 1961, the American association for the advancement Westinghouse prize, the Bradford Washburn award, and the John W. Campbell award for his novel Rendezvous with Rama. Clarke also won the nebula award of the fiction of America in 1972, 1974 and 1979, the Hugo award of the world fiction convention in 1974 and 1980. In 1986, he stood as grand master of the fiction of America. The queen knighted him as the commander of the British Empire in 1989.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 1,068 reviews
January 23, 2016
So. Two stars. That’s a really low rating for me. Normally, if I really don’t like a book, I just move on with my life. But this one had elements that hit close to home for me.
Sorry, I realize that I was just speaking Midwestern Understatement. What I meant to say was that this book is a tangible manifestation of my nightmares.
Is this an awful book? No.
Did I enjoy it? No. It frustrated me from the first page. From *before* the first page, actually. More than that, even. This book made me angry.
But is it a bad book in itself? No. Which is why I’m writing a review of it. To explain this strange situation and to talk about the danger of sequels.
***
First and foremost, you need to know that this is a review of a sequel.
For those of you who haven't read my review of the first Rama book, here's a link. This review will probably make better sense if you’ve read that.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
For those of you who are too lazy to read and/or have a bizarre fear of clicking, I liked the first book. It's a very lean, tight piece of what I'd consider "Classical hard sci-fi" by which I mean there's a focus on the science, and an emphasis of plot over character.
This sequel was written more than 15 years later in collaboration with a different author: Gentry Lee. From what I've gathered, I think it's safe to say that Clarke provided some ideas for this sequel, while Lee is the one who actually wrote the book.
What went wrong:
Ultimately, everything that made me dislike this book stems from the fact that it’s a sequel to Rendezvous with Rama.
1. Enormous stylistic shift from the first book.
This book was much longer (more than twice as long) and much more descriptive than the first book. The structure itself was much more meandering, and non-linear.
Now I don't mean to say that Gentry's writing is unpleasant. Honestly, his style is much more like mine than Clarke's is. So I can't throw stones.
The problem is that it’s almost the opposite of everything Clarke did in the first book. Clarke’s description is lean to the point of austerity. And as I mentioned in my previous review, Clarke’s pacing and structure is so tight that it almost doesn’t allow room for tension. (Almost).
The result is that this sequel doesn’t just feel entirely different. (Which would be a big enough issue by itself) it’s that when held up against the first book, this one feels huge, loose, ponderous, and slow.
2. Huge shift in tone.
In the first book, Clark tells a story of humanity coming together and working against incredible odds to investigate a mystery. And by extension, improve the sum total of human knowledge.
It’s true that some people in the book react with fear, but wiser heads prevail. The story was optimistic and full of heroes. This makes it a book that’s hopeful about the future of humanity.
In the sequel, pretty much everyone is a bastard, by which I mean they’re motivated by self-interest. There are a few people that stand up to them… but that leads to an entirely different kind of story. A world where everyone’s a bastard except for 3 people isn’t an optimistic book.
The other huge change in character deals with the cleverness of the characters. In the first book, the characters are really clever. When investigating the alien ship, the Astronauts move with great deliberation and forethought. They’re painfully aware of the fact that they don’t know what’s going on. They treat the alien ship with reverence, and are careful… well… not to be total dickbags when interacting with the ship.
For example, when investigating the ship, they talk about cutting through walls so they can see the inner working of the ship or the contents of some of the structures…. But then they don’t, because they realize that that could be viewed as aggressive by the ship (Which has shown itself to be automated.) Also, when they encounter creatures on the ship, they decide *not* to try and capture and/or kill them. Because again, that would probably be seen as aggressive/destructive.
In the sequel, when they get onto the ship, almost the very *first* thing they do is try to attack/capture one of the creatures they see. And when it goes wrong a lot of the folks are like, “Holy shit, who ever thought it would come to this?!?”
Well, everyone who read the first book, I’m guessing. And probably anyone who wasn’t a total self-interested bastard, too.
3. Huge focal shift from the first book.
The first book of the series was focused primarily on the ship itself. There were was some backstory to the world, and there was some information on the characters, too. But all of that was in service to the center of the story, which was about the aliens and the mystery of their ship.
The sequel focuses on the characters themselves. There are twice as many, and nearly every character is a POV character at some point. And they all have backstories. And flashbacks. And ulterior motives that have nothing to do with unraveling the mystery of the ship.
The odd thing is that I actually *like* this kind of book more. Character stuff is my bread and butter. But that's not why I started reading this book. I started reading this book for answers to the mysteries that were brought up in the first book. But honestly? This book kinda didn't give a shit about the previously established mysteries at all.
And if you think I'm just being pissy, consider this:
The original Rama was 243 pages long. But in this second book, the crew doesn't even get to the ship until page 170 or so.
But ultimately, here's the real dealbreaker for me....
4. It turns out Clarke wrote Rendezvous with Rama as a stand-alone novel.
He mentioned this in his introduction. And when I read that piece of information, my initial reaction was genuine anger and disgust. As the opening to a three-part series that slowly unravels mysteries about a spaceship(s) and the alien race that created it, Rendezvous with Rama was a great book. But as a stand alone novel it has all the appeal of half a hand job. Half *dry* hand job. By a dumpster behind gas station.
Now this might seem a little harsh. But it really isn't. There's an enormous difference between a story that doesn't give you all the answers (either because of subtlety in the storytelling or because the answers will be coming in future books) and a story that has no answers to give. The main difference is that the latter story is utter bullshit.
This is what I mean when I said this book disappointed me from before the first page. What I found out in the introduction to this book actually made revise my opinion of the previous book, and lose respect for Clarke as an author. I’d assumed he was teasing us with a mystery. I’d assumed he had answers he was going to give us eventually.
But he didn't. And that is a betrayal of trust. It makes me go back and resent the book that I'd previously enjoyed. It actually makes me want to go back in and change my rating of the book here on goodreads. (And I may. I'm not sure...)
This is also what I was referring to when I mentioned that this book is my worst nightmare. It's proof that a sequel can be more than a disappointment. It can retroactively ruin a book you had previously enjoyed.
And yeah. That's a spooky thing to me. And it lets me know that I'm right to be careful with my own sequels.
I actually bought the third book of the series. But I'm not going to read it. It's a rare thing for me to give up on a series like this. But I feel ill-used by Clarke. And there are many other books to read....
Sorry, I realize that I was just speaking Midwestern Understatement. What I meant to say was that this book is a tangible manifestation of my nightmares.
Is this an awful book? No.
Did I enjoy it? No. It frustrated me from the first page. From *before* the first page, actually. More than that, even. This book made me angry.
But is it a bad book in itself? No. Which is why I’m writing a review of it. To explain this strange situation and to talk about the danger of sequels.
***
First and foremost, you need to know that this is a review of a sequel.
For those of you who haven't read my review of the first Rama book, here's a link. This review will probably make better sense if you’ve read that.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
For those of you who are too lazy to read and/or have a bizarre fear of clicking, I liked the first book. It's a very lean, tight piece of what I'd consider "Classical hard sci-fi" by which I mean there's a focus on the science, and an emphasis of plot over character.
This sequel was written more than 15 years later in collaboration with a different author: Gentry Lee. From what I've gathered, I think it's safe to say that Clarke provided some ideas for this sequel, while Lee is the one who actually wrote the book.
What went wrong:
Ultimately, everything that made me dislike this book stems from the fact that it’s a sequel to Rendezvous with Rama.
1. Enormous stylistic shift from the first book.
This book was much longer (more than twice as long) and much more descriptive than the first book. The structure itself was much more meandering, and non-linear.
Now I don't mean to say that Gentry's writing is unpleasant. Honestly, his style is much more like mine than Clarke's is. So I can't throw stones.
The problem is that it’s almost the opposite of everything Clarke did in the first book. Clarke’s description is lean to the point of austerity. And as I mentioned in my previous review, Clarke’s pacing and structure is so tight that it almost doesn’t allow room for tension. (Almost).
The result is that this sequel doesn’t just feel entirely different. (Which would be a big enough issue by itself) it’s that when held up against the first book, this one feels huge, loose, ponderous, and slow.
2. Huge shift in tone.
In the first book, Clark tells a story of humanity coming together and working against incredible odds to investigate a mystery. And by extension, improve the sum total of human knowledge.
It’s true that some people in the book react with fear, but wiser heads prevail. The story was optimistic and full of heroes. This makes it a book that’s hopeful about the future of humanity.
In the sequel, pretty much everyone is a bastard, by which I mean they’re motivated by self-interest. There are a few people that stand up to them… but that leads to an entirely different kind of story. A world where everyone’s a bastard except for 3 people isn’t an optimistic book.
The other huge change in character deals with the cleverness of the characters. In the first book, the characters are really clever. When investigating the alien ship, the Astronauts move with great deliberation and forethought. They’re painfully aware of the fact that they don’t know what’s going on. They treat the alien ship with reverence, and are careful… well… not to be total dickbags when interacting with the ship.
For example, when investigating the ship, they talk about cutting through walls so they can see the inner working of the ship or the contents of some of the structures…. But then they don’t, because they realize that that could be viewed as aggressive by the ship (Which has shown itself to be automated.) Also, when they encounter creatures on the ship, they decide *not* to try and capture and/or kill them. Because again, that would probably be seen as aggressive/destructive.
In the sequel, when they get onto the ship, almost the very *first* thing they do is try to attack/capture one of the creatures they see. And when it goes wrong a lot of the folks are like, “Holy shit, who ever thought it would come to this?!?”
Well, everyone who read the first book, I’m guessing. And probably anyone who wasn’t a total self-interested bastard, too.
3. Huge focal shift from the first book.
The first book of the series was focused primarily on the ship itself. There were was some backstory to the world, and there was some information on the characters, too. But all of that was in service to the center of the story, which was about the aliens and the mystery of their ship.
The sequel focuses on the characters themselves. There are twice as many, and nearly every character is a POV character at some point. And they all have backstories. And flashbacks. And ulterior motives that have nothing to do with unraveling the mystery of the ship.
The odd thing is that I actually *like* this kind of book more. Character stuff is my bread and butter. But that's not why I started reading this book. I started reading this book for answers to the mysteries that were brought up in the first book. But honestly? This book kinda didn't give a shit about the previously established mysteries at all.
And if you think I'm just being pissy, consider this:
The original Rama was 243 pages long. But in this second book, the crew doesn't even get to the ship until page 170 or so.
But ultimately, here's the real dealbreaker for me....
4. It turns out Clarke wrote Rendezvous with Rama as a stand-alone novel.
He mentioned this in his introduction. And when I read that piece of information, my initial reaction was genuine anger and disgust. As the opening to a three-part series that slowly unravels mysteries about a spaceship(s) and the alien race that created it, Rendezvous with Rama was a great book. But as a stand alone novel it has all the appeal of half a hand job. Half *dry* hand job. By a dumpster behind gas station.
Now this might seem a little harsh. But it really isn't. There's an enormous difference between a story that doesn't give you all the answers (either because of subtlety in the storytelling or because the answers will be coming in future books) and a story that has no answers to give. The main difference is that the latter story is utter bullshit.
This is what I mean when I said this book disappointed me from before the first page. What I found out in the introduction to this book actually made revise my opinion of the previous book, and lose respect for Clarke as an author. I’d assumed he was teasing us with a mystery. I’d assumed he had answers he was going to give us eventually.
But he didn't. And that is a betrayal of trust. It makes me go back and resent the book that I'd previously enjoyed. It actually makes me want to go back in and change my rating of the book here on goodreads. (And I may. I'm not sure...)
This is also what I was referring to when I mentioned that this book is my worst nightmare. It's proof that a sequel can be more than a disappointment. It can retroactively ruin a book you had previously enjoyed.
And yeah. That's a spooky thing to me. And it lets me know that I'm right to be careful with my own sequels.
I actually bought the third book of the series. But I'm not going to read it. It's a rare thing for me to give up on a series like this. But I feel ill-used by Clarke. And there are many other books to read....
June 3, 2014
Two men enter a curio shop and see a delightful object. "I made that!" exclaimed one man. "Now that I am long in years, perhaps I can improve upon it." Replied the second man, with some enthusiasm: "Indeed! I may be able to help with that project. I have certain new-fangled ideas that shall modernize your quaint antique!" Sadly, both men were quite mistaken.
why the urge to improve upon what was perfectly fine as is? this sequel adds absolutely nothing to the original - except a host of cheap soap opera shenanigans (including, good grief, a love triangle) that are all abandoned at about the halfway point, plus much eye-rolling, poorly thought-out spirituality to boot. the awesome mystery of the fantastic and eerie alien spaceship Rama is not expanded upon; instead, a sub-Alien narrative of explorers being killed off one by one is shoehorned into the plot. the characterization in the first book was warm and pleasingly straightforward; this novel replaces that with wearying dime store Freudianism and, most unpleasantly, some questionable 'liberalism' around race and gender that comes across as both dated and condescending. sigh.
fortunately, not all of the characterization fails. the protagonist and her eventual love interest (but really, why does there even need to be a 'love interest'?) are nice creations - at least when they are not being bogged down by their needlessly overwrought backstories. I just wish I had met those characters in a different novel because they certainly do not belong in this one.
my advice: stick with the highly enjoyable Rendezvous with Rama and don't bother with its sequel(s).
why the urge to improve upon what was perfectly fine as is? this sequel adds absolutely nothing to the original - except a host of cheap soap opera shenanigans (including, good grief, a love triangle) that are all abandoned at about the halfway point, plus much eye-rolling, poorly thought-out spirituality to boot. the awesome mystery of the fantastic and eerie alien spaceship Rama is not expanded upon; instead, a sub-Alien narrative of explorers being killed off one by one is shoehorned into the plot. the characterization in the first book was warm and pleasingly straightforward; this novel replaces that with wearying dime store Freudianism and, most unpleasantly, some questionable 'liberalism' around race and gender that comes across as both dated and condescending. sigh.
fortunately, not all of the characterization fails. the protagonist and her eventual love interest (but really, why does there even need to be a 'love interest'?) are nice creations - at least when they are not being bogged down by their needlessly overwrought backstories. I just wish I had met those characters in a different novel because they certainly do not belong in this one.
my advice: stick with the highly enjoyable Rendezvous with Rama and don't bother with its sequel(s).
May 27, 2009
I'm about 1/5 in and this book SUCKS. Nothing has happened, the pacing is at an absolute crawl, and all I'm getting in the way of story is far too much backstory on all the characters.
Oh, and some of the writing is bad. "She looked up at the lights and Francesca. The gold sequins on the front of the Italian journalist's dress had grouped into a pattern, or so it seemed to Nicole. She saw a head in the sequins, the head of a large cat, its eyes gleaming and its mouth with sharp teeth just beginning to open." JESUS CHRIST. I GET IT. The 'Italian journalist' (why do you need to constantly remind me she's an Italian journalist?) is like a cat getting ready to pounce on her prey. MOVE THE FUCK ON. Why do you need to be so literal? Really? Her sequined holiday dress looks like a cat to this other character?
And the heavy-handed visit with the pope, the visit to a saint's monument, all to show how uber-religious this character is. Where is the science fiction? Is there an Arthur C. Clarke book buried somewhere in all this drivel?
Oh, and some of the writing is bad. "She looked up at the lights and Francesca. The gold sequins on the front of the Italian journalist's dress had grouped into a pattern, or so it seemed to Nicole. She saw a head in the sequins, the head of a large cat, its eyes gleaming and its mouth with sharp teeth just beginning to open." JESUS CHRIST. I GET IT. The 'Italian journalist' (why do you need to constantly remind me she's an Italian journalist?) is like a cat getting ready to pounce on her prey. MOVE THE FUCK ON. Why do you need to be so literal? Really? Her sequined holiday dress looks like a cat to this other character?
And the heavy-handed visit with the pope, the visit to a saint's monument, all to show how uber-religious this character is. Where is the science fiction? Is there an Arthur C. Clarke book buried somewhere in all this drivel?
December 27, 2019
I was surprised that this book turned out to be so disappointing. I almost gave up a few times but forced myself to finish, expecting it to get better. Now I feel abashed, as if I sent a nigerian prince $10,000.00 because I believed his email about his terrible, urgent need.
Rendezvous with Rama (The book proceeding Rama II in the series) was a wonderful book. It was a classic example of "hard" sci fi, Arhur C. Clarke at his best. It had fascinating science, great atmosphere and tension, and built to a decent climax. Above all it was well thought out, Rendezvous avoided sensational story tactics and instead presented a logical, realistic resolution to the story.
Rama II apparently felt Rama I was too dull, and responds by tossing all the logic and realism out the window. In their place Rama II piles on huge helpings of fatiguing "character development" for uninteresting characters and opts for eye-rolling soap opera story in place of simple good sci fi.
Having enjoyed Rama I so much, I was determined to like Rama II. I kept reading thinking to myself, "Surely, this must get better at some point" A few hundred pages later I feel dirty. Like I fell for a clearly fraudulent pitch of some snake oil salesman. All the signs were there that Rama II was not a very good book, I deceived myself into not seeing them.
But I should give examples if I am to criticize the book so harshly, beware, spoilers ahead!
Reasons why this book just was not good:
-The Shakespear Robots. Yes, this one guy likes shakespear, and makes cute robots that recite shakespear. We get it already. MAKE THE ROBOTS SHUT UP!!! Why do they keep coming back?? They get more lines than half the crew.
-After the commander of the mission dies early on, there is NO clearly designated second in command. Seriously? The single most important event in human history, and the assembled world governments, military and space programs do not think it's important enough to have a clearly defined command structure? That is just idiotic. The only reason that there was no second in command was to provide a plot device for the crew to argue over who should lead, and then to have tension after someone is picked. Its like reality TV.....survivor in space.
-The crew. My god these people. I guess Arthur C. Clarke has received some criticism for having weaker than average characterization. But this book responds by just layering on long meandering pointless back stories of dull characters. It doesnt make you care about them, it makes you mad they are not focusing on more interesting matters. The Rama I crew made sense, it was an assembly of the space programs finest, which you would expect on such an important mission, and they completed their mission with professionalism. This crew has a ridiculously high percentage of untrained, borderline insane civilians along just for fun. TWO journalists, who are both wildly unbalanced. Really?? Well I guess it is the single most important mission in human history, that is why we sent Walter Cronkite to the moon with Neil Armstrong right?......right?
-The book introduces practically nothing new from Rama I. The crew gets to Rama II basically encounters the same things the Rama I crew did, and then spend all their time with terrible interpersonal conflicts. There were a few new encounters, but no big "WOW" moments that would have made this worth while.
- Rama II either ignores or just plain forgets about a number of Rama I facts. For example the Hermians, who played an interesting role in Rama I, are left out this time. The book details a huge economic collapse on Earth and briefly mentions most of the space colonies in the solar system had to return to Earth due to lack of supply or aid. However in Rama I it is clearly stated that the Hermians on Mercury are entirely self sufficient, and an incredibly hearty race of people. And Rama I makes a point that they could never return to earth anyway, having been born on the extremely low gravity of Mercury.
-Simple technology appears to have regressed hundreds of years. For example in Rama I the crew is able to communicate to each other from anywhere aboard the Rama ship, even when someone crashes in the southern hemisphere his equipment is strong enough to survive and he can still communicate to the far end of the Northern Hemisphere. In Rama II the crew cannot speak to each other for even half that distance once the Beta Relay is damaged.
There were a number of examples of this, the book does state there was a large economic collapse for a few decades between Rama I and II, but I simply cant believe technology went to crap as much as this book wants you to believe. It's like Micheal Bay's Armageddon, these changes only exist so that more things can go wrong to make it harder for the crew and provide some sort of conflict. Everything must go wrong at every step, unlike Rama I which was more logical and realistic.
- The ending. After putting up with all the contrived "things that go wrong", the endless slogging through characters generic backstories so we get to know them....none of it pays off! The bad guys get to go back to earth with no one who can incriminate them still alive (As far as they know), and presumably live out long lives making billions of dollars. The good guys quietly shuttle off into deep space, not having learned much at all from the long mission, just happy to be alive. The rest of the good guys die. I am only a quarter of the way through the third book, so maybe there is resolution still to come. But as of the end of Rama II your left asking yourself..."WHY was I forced to learn so much about these people, how aweful they are? It was completely irrelevant!"
-Also, who is the unidentified father of the main characters daughter? The freaking King of England. Because a Duke just wouldn't have been dramatic enough.
So anyway, first book good, second book bad. Thats the long and the short of it.
(P.S. Seriously, the crew still annoys me. David Brown the scientist who eventually conives his way into being in charge. What the hell? A middling scientist with modest acheivements and EVERYONE seems to know that he stole his only important work from a grad student...why is he on this mission? Why does anyone think he should be in charge?? And even when the doctor is virtualy certain the reporter witch killed the commander and is pulling a thousand other strings, the doctor just goes on refusing to tell anyone her suspicions, ug)
Rendezvous with Rama (The book proceeding Rama II in the series) was a wonderful book. It was a classic example of "hard" sci fi, Arhur C. Clarke at his best. It had fascinating science, great atmosphere and tension, and built to a decent climax. Above all it was well thought out, Rendezvous avoided sensational story tactics and instead presented a logical, realistic resolution to the story.
Rama II apparently felt Rama I was too dull, and responds by tossing all the logic and realism out the window. In their place Rama II piles on huge helpings of fatiguing "character development" for uninteresting characters and opts for eye-rolling soap opera story in place of simple good sci fi.
Having enjoyed Rama I so much, I was determined to like Rama II. I kept reading thinking to myself, "Surely, this must get better at some point" A few hundred pages later I feel dirty. Like I fell for a clearly fraudulent pitch of some snake oil salesman. All the signs were there that Rama II was not a very good book, I deceived myself into not seeing them.
But I should give examples if I am to criticize the book so harshly, beware, spoilers ahead!
Reasons why this book just was not good:
-The Shakespear Robots. Yes, this one guy likes shakespear, and makes cute robots that recite shakespear. We get it already. MAKE THE ROBOTS SHUT UP!!! Why do they keep coming back?? They get more lines than half the crew.
-After the commander of the mission dies early on, there is NO clearly designated second in command. Seriously? The single most important event in human history, and the assembled world governments, military and space programs do not think it's important enough to have a clearly defined command structure? That is just idiotic. The only reason that there was no second in command was to provide a plot device for the crew to argue over who should lead, and then to have tension after someone is picked. Its like reality TV.....survivor in space.
-The crew. My god these people. I guess Arthur C. Clarke has received some criticism for having weaker than average characterization. But this book responds by just layering on long meandering pointless back stories of dull characters. It doesnt make you care about them, it makes you mad they are not focusing on more interesting matters. The Rama I crew made sense, it was an assembly of the space programs finest, which you would expect on such an important mission, and they completed their mission with professionalism. This crew has a ridiculously high percentage of untrained, borderline insane civilians along just for fun. TWO journalists, who are both wildly unbalanced. Really?? Well I guess it is the single most important mission in human history, that is why we sent Walter Cronkite to the moon with Neil Armstrong right?......right?
-The book introduces practically nothing new from Rama I. The crew gets to Rama II basically encounters the same things the Rama I crew did, and then spend all their time with terrible interpersonal conflicts. There were a few new encounters, but no big "WOW" moments that would have made this worth while.
- Rama II either ignores or just plain forgets about a number of Rama I facts. For example the Hermians, who played an interesting role in Rama I, are left out this time. The book details a huge economic collapse on Earth and briefly mentions most of the space colonies in the solar system had to return to Earth due to lack of supply or aid. However in Rama I it is clearly stated that the Hermians on Mercury are entirely self sufficient, and an incredibly hearty race of people. And Rama I makes a point that they could never return to earth anyway, having been born on the extremely low gravity of Mercury.
-Simple technology appears to have regressed hundreds of years. For example in Rama I the crew is able to communicate to each other from anywhere aboard the Rama ship, even when someone crashes in the southern hemisphere his equipment is strong enough to survive and he can still communicate to the far end of the Northern Hemisphere. In Rama II the crew cannot speak to each other for even half that distance once the Beta Relay is damaged.
There were a number of examples of this, the book does state there was a large economic collapse for a few decades between Rama I and II, but I simply cant believe technology went to crap as much as this book wants you to believe. It's like Micheal Bay's Armageddon, these changes only exist so that more things can go wrong to make it harder for the crew and provide some sort of conflict. Everything must go wrong at every step, unlike Rama I which was more logical and realistic.
- The ending. After putting up with all the contrived "things that go wrong", the endless slogging through characters generic backstories so we get to know them....none of it pays off! The bad guys get to go back to earth with no one who can incriminate them still alive (As far as they know), and presumably live out long lives making billions of dollars. The good guys quietly shuttle off into deep space, not having learned much at all from the long mission, just happy to be alive. The rest of the good guys die. I am only a quarter of the way through the third book, so maybe there is resolution still to come. But as of the end of Rama II your left asking yourself..."WHY was I forced to learn so much about these people, how aweful they are? It was completely irrelevant!"
-Also, who is the unidentified father of the main characters daughter? The freaking King of England. Because a Duke just wouldn't have been dramatic enough.
So anyway, first book good, second book bad. Thats the long and the short of it.
(P.S. Seriously, the crew still annoys me. David Brown the scientist who eventually conives his way into being in charge. What the hell? A middling scientist with modest acheivements and EVERYONE seems to know that he stole his only important work from a grad student...why is he on this mission? Why does anyone think he should be in charge?? And even when the doctor is virtualy certain the reporter witch killed the commander and is pulling a thousand other strings, the doctor just goes on refusing to tell anyone her suspicions, ug)
January 14, 2018
I am obviously in the minority here but I enjoyed this novel... is it even safe to say that I enjoyed it more than the first one? Full review to come. Bought the last 2 books in the series too, even though I'm 100% certain that I will take a break from this series for a while.
November 27, 2023
Questo romanzo è stato una delusione.
A mio parere soffre del morbo del "sequel forzato" in cui appare evidente un notevole cambio di stile e finalità. Si limita a riproporre il canovaccio magistralmente intessuto nel primo romanzo ma lo elabora concentrandosi sui conflitti personali dei personaggi relegando l'elemento fantascientifico e portante del primo contatto a un semplice piano di sfondo.
Un equipaggio "scelto" che però non presenta nulla di professionale. Sembra di assistere ad un gruppo di dilettanti che agiscono solo allo scopo del prestigio personale con litigi che sfociano in atti criminali. Un cambio di tono abissale, dal positivismo di Clarke al pessimismo di Lee.
Dimenticate la tensione costante e il ritmo incalzante del primo romanzo e preparatevi ad un misto tra una soap opera da canale secondario ed una specie di investigativo senza mordente, flashback continui che spezzano la narrazione e situazioni buttate un po' a caso.
Si vede lontano un miglio che il buon Clarke si è limitato a suggerire questa volta, mentre la stesura è tutta a cura del sig. Lee.
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This novel was a disappointment. In my opinion it suffers from the "forced sequel" disease in which a notable change in style and purpose is evident. It limits itself to re-proposing the plot masterfully woven into the first novel but elaborates it by focusing on the personal conflicts of the characters, relegating the science fiction and supporting element of the first contact to a simple background plane.
A "chosen" crew which however presents nothing professional. It seems like we are witnessing a group of amateurs who act only for the purpose of personal prestige with arguments that lead to criminal acts. An abysmal change of tone, from Clarke's positivism to Lee's pessimism.
Forget the constant tension and fast-paced pace of the first novel and prepare yourself for a mix between a back-channel soap opera and a kind of detective story without bite, continuous flashbacks that break up the narrative and situations thrown in a bit at random.
You can see a mile away that the good Clarke limited himself to suggesting this time, while the drafting is entirely by Mr. Lee.
A mio parere soffre del morbo del "sequel forzato" in cui appare evidente un notevole cambio di stile e finalità. Si limita a riproporre il canovaccio magistralmente intessuto nel primo romanzo ma lo elabora concentrandosi sui conflitti personali dei personaggi relegando l'elemento fantascientifico e portante del primo contatto a un semplice piano di sfondo.
Un equipaggio "scelto" che però non presenta nulla di professionale. Sembra di assistere ad un gruppo di dilettanti che agiscono solo allo scopo del prestigio personale con litigi che sfociano in atti criminali. Un cambio di tono abissale, dal positivismo di Clarke al pessimismo di Lee.
Dimenticate la tensione costante e il ritmo incalzante del primo romanzo e preparatevi ad un misto tra una soap opera da canale secondario ed una specie di investigativo senza mordente, flashback continui che spezzano la narrazione e situazioni buttate un po' a caso.
Si vede lontano un miglio che il buon Clarke si è limitato a suggerire questa volta, mentre la stesura è tutta a cura del sig. Lee.
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This novel was a disappointment. In my opinion it suffers from the "forced sequel" disease in which a notable change in style and purpose is evident. It limits itself to re-proposing the plot masterfully woven into the first novel but elaborates it by focusing on the personal conflicts of the characters, relegating the science fiction and supporting element of the first contact to a simple background plane.
A "chosen" crew which however presents nothing professional. It seems like we are witnessing a group of amateurs who act only for the purpose of personal prestige with arguments that lead to criminal acts. An abysmal change of tone, from Clarke's positivism to Lee's pessimism.
Forget the constant tension and fast-paced pace of the first novel and prepare yourself for a mix between a back-channel soap opera and a kind of detective story without bite, continuous flashbacks that break up the narrative and situations thrown in a bit at random.
You can see a mile away that the good Clarke limited himself to suggesting this time, while the drafting is entirely by Mr. Lee.
February 28, 2011
Good: Anything not involving the characters. The history of the economic crisis, description of the saint.
Bad: Anything involving characters and character development. Minus the catholic guy who visits the pope and the saint's memorial.
I'm sorry, I just can't keep reading this. It's excruciating. I'm bailing at page 100. Parts of it are really good, like the 2 chapter history of the economic crisis. That was fun, detailed, well thought out.
But whenever this book interacts with a human being, I want to stab my myself (apart from the guy who visits the pope, I liked that description of the saint). I don't know how the author can go into such detail about these people. They're so mind numbingly 1 dimensional and boring. It's like reading a crappy soap opera. An illegitimate child with a european monarch who is also her long lost love? Kill me now. It's not even as interesting as one of those cheesy romance novels.
When I read the original book, I sort of thought that the characters were kind of bland and uninteresting. But now I know better, the contrast with Rama II, they were a blessing. Thank god Arthur C. Clarke didn't waste time developing them. Have you ever read an Asimov book for the original/exciting characters? God no. This is Sci-fi, personality is optional. Especially if personality means the cast of Rama II.
I could have enjoyed it if the characters didn't have so much pointless drama. I just wanted to yell at them: "You're going to a freaking alien spacecraft! Just obey your goddamn orders and shut the hell up!" Ok, I'm done venting.
Bad: Anything involving characters and character development. Minus the catholic guy who visits the pope and the saint's memorial.
I'm sorry, I just can't keep reading this. It's excruciating. I'm bailing at page 100. Parts of it are really good, like the 2 chapter history of the economic crisis. That was fun, detailed, well thought out.
But whenever this book interacts with a human being, I want to stab my myself (apart from the guy who visits the pope, I liked that description of the saint). I don't know how the author can go into such detail about these people. They're so mind numbingly 1 dimensional and boring. It's like reading a crappy soap opera. An illegitimate child with a european monarch who is also her long lost love? Kill me now. It's not even as interesting as one of those cheesy romance novels.
When I read the original book, I sort of thought that the characters were kind of bland and uninteresting. But now I know better, the contrast with Rama II, they were a blessing. Thank god Arthur C. Clarke didn't waste time developing them. Have you ever read an Asimov book for the original/exciting characters? God no. This is Sci-fi, personality is optional. Especially if personality means the cast of Rama II.
I could have enjoyed it if the characters didn't have so much pointless drama. I just wanted to yell at them: "You're going to a freaking alien spacecraft! Just obey your goddamn orders and shut the hell up!" Ok, I'm done venting.
March 5, 2013
I don't know if I can even be bothered to finish this one. Arthur C. Clarke was never very good at writing believable characters; his strengths were the amazingly inventive premises, attention to detail, and ability to make even the craziest technologies seem scientifically possible. So here we have a novel that Clarke apparently created the characters for (it shows) and outlined ideas, but is actually written by some other author. I absolutely loved the original book, Rendezvous with Rama, it was perfect. The mysterious alien ship that slowly reveals even greater mysteries the more they learn about it, how the alien technology is so alien yet still grounded in science, the way the astronauts behaved realistically, and the ambiguous ending were so satisfying.
Where Clarke recognized that the alien ship was the real main character and the humans ancillary, this author decided that what people REALLY care about are the wholly-unlikable and unrealistic characters. I've read 2/3 of the book and it is still primarily focused on the character's interactions. It's just insultingly stupid in some places, like for example the main female character (an impossibly attractive & educated person with a child by the King of England, ugh) has premonitions of bad things, and they come true. Seriously-- in a sci-fi book with Arthur C. Clarke's name on the jacket, there's magical bullshit.
We're also supposed to believe that for the most important space mission in human history, and perhaps the single most important moment in human history as a whole, they'd send up two guys who are fighting over the same woman who's ALSO on the mission (another impossibly attractive female with unbelievable levels of intellect, it's like this guy can't envision a woman who isn't Stephen Hawking's brain inside a super model's body). The only character that's competently written is the Russian commander, and to a lesser extent maybe the Japanese guys, although they're basically just furniture with a few lines.
Another thing that pisses me off is that this guy barely ever goes into any actual science behind anything. Clarke would have explained exactly how their mission ships operate, how gravity or the lack thereof affects things (this guy can't make up his mind, some scenes imply there's gravity but others imply that they're weightless), and everything else down to the smallest details. That's what makes his novels seem so real and plausible, the science works. Here you have some scientist guys creating insanely detailed little robots (seriously, they let him bring aboard all his toy robot making stuff? When every ounce of weight costs tens of thousands of dollars to get into space?) with no explanation of how they work, a mission ship that seems as spacious as the Enterprise (actually two equally badly thought out and terribly written mission ships), and a million other little things that make you go "WTF?"
Anyway, I have a feeling that any secrets revealed about the Raman ship will be highly disappointing and most likely so stupid I'll just get really angry, so I'm debating even finishing this book. I probably should, since maybe it suddenly gets awesome in the last 100 pages, but the thought isn't very exciting when I have other books to read.
Where Clarke recognized that the alien ship was the real main character and the humans ancillary, this author decided that what people REALLY care about are the wholly-unlikable and unrealistic characters. I've read 2/3 of the book and it is still primarily focused on the character's interactions. It's just insultingly stupid in some places, like for example the main female character (an impossibly attractive & educated person with a child by the King of England, ugh) has premonitions of bad things, and they come true. Seriously-- in a sci-fi book with Arthur C. Clarke's name on the jacket, there's magical bullshit.
We're also supposed to believe that for the most important space mission in human history, and perhaps the single most important moment in human history as a whole, they'd send up two guys who are fighting over the same woman who's ALSO on the mission (another impossibly attractive female with unbelievable levels of intellect, it's like this guy can't envision a woman who isn't Stephen Hawking's brain inside a super model's body). The only character that's competently written is the Russian commander, and to a lesser extent maybe the Japanese guys, although they're basically just furniture with a few lines.
Another thing that pisses me off is that this guy barely ever goes into any actual science behind anything. Clarke would have explained exactly how their mission ships operate, how gravity or the lack thereof affects things (this guy can't make up his mind, some scenes imply there's gravity but others imply that they're weightless), and everything else down to the smallest details. That's what makes his novels seem so real and plausible, the science works. Here you have some scientist guys creating insanely detailed little robots (seriously, they let him bring aboard all his toy robot making stuff? When every ounce of weight costs tens of thousands of dollars to get into space?) with no explanation of how they work, a mission ship that seems as spacious as the Enterprise (actually two equally badly thought out and terribly written mission ships), and a million other little things that make you go "WTF?"
Anyway, I have a feeling that any secrets revealed about the Raman ship will be highly disappointing and most likely so stupid I'll just get really angry, so I'm debating even finishing this book. I probably should, since maybe it suddenly gets awesome in the last 100 pages, but the thought isn't very exciting when I have other books to read.
September 10, 2015
What a pile of crap! Gentry Lee took over what was an amazing hardcore science fiction novel in Rama and turned it into some crappy drama, with novice style intrigue, a bunch of ridiculous characters that having you going from indifferent to totally hating them. This is a afternoon soap opera with the background of space. I loved Rama, I loved the ideas brought up by Arthur Clarke, and I was so excited to learn more about the Ramans and their ship that the second encounter should have brought, instead I learned about a bunch of pathetic characters that have a ton of personal problems, the chicks are sluts, and the dudes are retarded. This was one of the worst piles of refuse I have ever struggled through and it makes it all the more painful because I loved Rama so much. DO NOT READ THIS BOOK!!! It will destroy the good memories of the novel actually written by Clarke!
July 9, 2022
"Worst science fiction book ever" and "Arthur C. Clarke" -- in the same sentence? And the co-author, a super accomplished scientist in his own right? I just don't get it, but sadly the sequel to one of the best science fiction books of all time is really an awful book. It's difficult for me to say that, given the pedigree of the authors. I suppose the fact that Rama I was so good doesn't help since this book has to sit in its shadow.
Whatever it is just an awful book. As a confirmed science fiction fan, having read hundreds of scifi books in my 57 years of life, I have plenty to compare to.
I hesitate to provide specifics, since it means I have to actually think about it all over again. But I suppose I must... the characters are all either devious or criminally pompous and egotistical (or both), except for a few science-smart folks who are criminally lacking any common-sense. Sure, all of those kinds of people exist in the world and often rise to positions of power. But sending this train-wreck of a group off on such a critical mission - to meet the second RAMA ship to enter the solar system some years after the first - without any thought to their collective mental stability, obvious criminal intent, or ability to work together? It's just not credible. Sure, science-fiction requires suspension of disbelief to some degree. But to this extent -- I mean even if I could, I wouldn't want to. Think Prometheus and you'll get the idea.
And then there's the alien ship and its inhabitants which are, for some reason, much more malevolent than the first one. Why? I don't remember if or how this was explained in the book, but it feels like the scary aliens aspect was just thrown in to substitute for actual imagination on the part of the author(s). Which makes no sense -- I mean, the co-author was co-creator of Cosmos for god's sake!
Maybe it all has something to do with Pods...
Whatever it is just an awful book. As a confirmed science fiction fan, having read hundreds of scifi books in my 57 years of life, I have plenty to compare to.
I hesitate to provide specifics, since it means I have to actually think about it all over again. But I suppose I must... the characters are all either devious or criminally pompous and egotistical (or both), except for a few science-smart folks who are criminally lacking any common-sense. Sure, all of those kinds of people exist in the world and often rise to positions of power. But sending this train-wreck of a group off on such a critical mission - to meet the second RAMA ship to enter the solar system some years after the first - without any thought to their collective mental stability, obvious criminal intent, or ability to work together? It's just not credible. Sure, science-fiction requires suspension of disbelief to some degree. But to this extent -- I mean even if I could, I wouldn't want to. Think Prometheus and you'll get the idea.
And then there's the alien ship and its inhabitants which are, for some reason, much more malevolent than the first one. Why? I don't remember if or how this was explained in the book, but it feels like the scary aliens aspect was just thrown in to substitute for actual imagination on the part of the author(s). Which makes no sense -- I mean, the co-author was co-creator of Cosmos for god's sake!
Maybe it all has something to do with Pods...
August 18, 2008
Though not in the same league as Rendezvous with Rama, this was quite enjoyable. I was surprised that Lee, a scientist with JPL, made this a much more character focused novel. He didn't do a bad job at it or anything but that probably wasn't what most people wanted out of a Rama sequel.
March 18, 2017
II: This is the sequel to A. C. Clarke's Rama I, and I think it delivers. It has what the original novel did not have: Well developed characters and sub-plots, and I find that Gentry did a fine job at this. For example, this being published in 1989, well before reality TV became the expected norm, he had the idea that the world would be watching this historical event of a small crew exploring this new Rama in real time, assuming that in the twenty third century, we would still be into that sort of thing).
It was unclear to me what A.C. Clarke or Lee actually wrote here though I suspect we are mostly reading Lee's writing based on some plot ideas provided by A.C. Clarke or was it collective brainstorming, and I imagine drafts were approved by Clarke. What I would really like to read, is a companion book by Lee titled "How Clarke and I wrote Rama".
Over all, unlike many fine and respected Goodreads reviewers, I liked this novel much more than I expected. Based on the dreadful bits I read of their first collaboration, "Cradle", I had put this off for a decade believing it would certainly be rubbish. However, I can certainly see why it is a love it or hate it sort of thing. I liked it just fine.
It was unclear to me what A.C. Clarke or Lee actually wrote here though I suspect we are mostly reading Lee's writing based on some plot ideas provided by A.C. Clarke or was it collective brainstorming, and I imagine drafts were approved by Clarke. What I would really like to read, is a companion book by Lee titled "How Clarke and I wrote Rama".
Over all, unlike many fine and respected Goodreads reviewers, I liked this novel much more than I expected. Based on the dreadful bits I read of their first collaboration, "Cradle", I had put this off for a decade believing it would certainly be rubbish. However, I can certainly see why it is a love it or hate it sort of thing. I liked it just fine.
February 27, 2020
I was incredulous of the many 1- and 2-star ratings this book had. But now I've finished reading it, and I get it. In and of itself, it wasn't a terrible book. The writing and story were OK, but this just wasn't a classic Arthur C. Clarke novel. Clarke's stories were always about the science, the science fiction and the wonders and thrills that lay within which propelled the narrative forward. This book was obviously more Gentry Lee, because it was jam-packed with melodrama and soap opera-like subplots. Clarke always gave you just enough information about the characters to get a feel for them and understand how they related to the story. Rama II felt like the TV show "Lost" - every time the narrative changed to focus on a different character, you got too much and mostly unnecessary flashback stories of their past. The wonders and mystery of Rama took a backseat to backstabbing, sex and blind ambition. If that's your sort of bag, you may enjoy this book, but true Clarke fans most likely won't.
October 11, 2022
“Rama II” is the “gritty, Abrams-esque soft reboot” of “Rendezvous with Rama” that nobody asked for.
Content Warning: Rama II contains pederasty and doesn’t seem to feel too bad about it, nor paint it in a negative light. Also, there are several racial references to “Orientals,” “Asiatics,” and a negative view of “Blacks.”
Overall, this entire novel comes across as a tale set “in the not too distant future” (…way down in Deep 13…somewhere in time and space…) from a late 1980’s perspective, and not as someone writing about events occurring 200 year in the future. The morality of people, the ideas they have, the way that they act, their relationships, governmental bodies, etc., all act very 1990s science fiction.
I’m quite disappointed to say that “Rama II” has as much to do with “Rendezvous with Rama” as “Star Trek 2009” has to do with “The Original Series.” Yes, it takes place in the same universe, and yes, it acknowledges its own history in some way, but the two novels exist in their own little worlds. I call this a “soft reboot” rather than a full on reboot, because like most soft reboots, it functions as something of a sequel, even if it is essentially retelling the same story, but this time with blackjack and hookers.
It's been roughly 70 years since “Rendezvous with Rama” and everything sucks now. Unlike, “Rendezvous,” “Rama II” is chock full of exposition in an alternating chapter style format (i.e., here’s a character, here’s her backstory, or here’s a current even, here’s how we got there). Apparently, in the year or two following the initial encounter, the exuberance of finding out that we are not alone put humanity on a crazy spending spree (personal, business, and governmental) and so much was being bought and sold and traded that what we today essentially call a DDOS-style attack occurred (the term wasn’t around in the 1980s, I guess, and there wasn’t really a deliberate DDOS attack, the system was just so overwhelmed that data was strangulated). When people found out that their accounts weren’t being drained by their purchases due to the delay, they went out and spent more money that they technically didn’t have, to take advantage of the delay. How the system could still process purchases but was unable to process payments is not explained, nor do I think the author’s thought about it, seemingly convinced credit payments would occur like they did in the 80s with the whole carbon copy manual swiping devices – remember those?
This, of course, led to a tremendous economic crash called the “Great Chaos” and lasted for decades. All of the colonies on Mercury, Mars, the Moons of Jupiter, etc., were all either abandoned in a mass exodus back to Earth or the people there were left to starve as their resources ran out, since Earth was unable to provide. There is even mention of mass starvation on Earth, with over 100 million dead in a famine. Oddly, in “Rendezvous” we are told that Earth tried (and consistently fails) to keep its population under 1 billion, but not that it fails in the sense that there are billions and billions – I got the impression that maybe it was like somewhere between 1 and 2 billion – but, regardless, even with this mass starvation, there are over 1 billion Catholics and Earth and over 1 billion people tune in to watch the cosmonauts land on Rama II. Yes, cosmonauts…repeatedly, over and over, they are called cosmonauts.
We are even told that, because of this famine, and downturn, children became a precious commodity and were the subject of overprotective parents and policies. We, the readers, are specifically told to “keep this in mind” as we learn about the characters…and I have no idea why, as it’s never brought up – and with one of the characters essentially being raped at the age of 14 repeatedly and publicly, no less – it’s just not present.
Anyway, it appears that, in the ensuing decades, with everyone back living on Earth, and the Moon (even though we never visit a Moon base, or meet anyone from the Moon, or go to the Moon, or ever have the Moon mentioned again), engaged in “Disaster Socialism” and loads of dictators in order to keep the peace, as there is a mention of Japan being hit particularly hard “until recently” with the reopening of the Free Market, in which they have once again become an economic powerhouse. One of our characters, an Air Force General, also previously was a pilot in an operation the USA conducted against right-wing terrorists in Guatemala (nice to know in 200 years, we’re still engaging in “interventions”).
So, with all that, just like “Space Guard” from “Rendezvous” there is a new even deeper space monitoring system, “Excalibur” which detects another Rama-style spacecraft approaching in 2196 (which the book tells us, that after finally recovering from the “Great Chaos,” Humanity is at about the same technological level as we were in “Rendezvous”)…flash forward to 2199 and/or 2200 in which we’ve spent the ensuring three/four years prepping a crew and ships to intercept it…at about the orbit of Venus.
The crew makes perfect movie material, as well. Instead of the experienced space explorers of the first book of which there were about forty, most of whom remained nameless/faceless, we now have an ensemble cast of twelve, described perfectly and with backstories, so we can ensure that the casting directors can find the perfect actors and actresses. We have older male military officers for those distinguished older actors, we have sexy femme fatales for those up-and-coming starlets (all of whom are “exotic” since they are foreign – whip out those accents ladies), we have a few token “minorities” so we can ensure that we can cast 1990s Samuel Jackson and maybe 1990s Ken Watanabe and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, and we’ve got a couple of love interests so we can fill out the hunk quota.
Of these, our “main character,” if one can be called as such, is Nicole des Jardins, whose father was French and mother was from the Ivory Coast. She’s a former Olympian turned Doctor who had a fling with the future King of England after she won her gold, and then he cast her aside when she seemed to think they’d up together because, as Prince Henry VI states, “the people of England would never accept a half-black Queen”…in 2200. This is just one of many instances of racism peppered throughout this book. Another character, Francesca Sabatini, seeks out abortion meds because, as she states, “the world doesn’t need another half-black baby”…in 2200.
Speaking of, Francesca left home at the age of 14, seducing a rich, middle-aged Italian fashion mogul, of which we get ample descriptions of how sexy he finds this barely teenage girl, culminating in them having sex in a limo – to which we get a brief description – thank you for that…*fucking sigh* …and then said fashion designer begins to parade her around, dressed to the nines, making out with her in public, and leering at her, etc., so that EVERYONE knows what’s going on…and no one cares. Which, it’s fricking 2200…this would be front page news of every digital paper, splashed across every page of the future version of the internet, etc., etc. So much for that “extreme protection” all parents have towards their children which we were told to keep in mind earlier…lacking are also the descriptions of alternative relationships present in “Rendezvous.” Heteronormativity seems to have buried it’s claws deep into society yet again – but, on the bright side, it seems that the Big Bang Theory is back to mainstream acceptance.
Round out the cast we have Reggie Wilson – he’s the token black guy, in case you couldn’t tell from his name – and, as Francesca describes him after they bang, he’s very well-endowed…’cause you know. He’s also one of three of the crew that die, because this is the gritty reboot, and no one died in “Rendezvous,” so it was not exciting. Oh, guess what occupation both Francesco and Reggie share – something vitally important to aa scientific expedition to Rama, I hear you guess – well, you’d be wrong. They are both journalists. That super vital job required by all space exploration missions with limited crews…yep.
Then there’s Dr. Brown, whose first name escapes me, who is like the smartest person on the planet, but has also plagiarized his most important work from his ex-wife, and is described as having no interest in learning anything to do with mechanics or engineering…which seems highly useless on a space mission with a limited crew. Much like “Ever Man a Soldier” should this not be “Every Astronaut an Engineer”…it’s ever mentioned, after half the crew is dead and/or missing, that they don’t even know if they can’t pilot the ship back to Earth because no one knows all the tasks. Seems like the Selection Committee could have thought about that.
Speaking of the Selection Committee, I swear that instead of actually attempting to build a crew capable of completing the mission, they were actually casting for a reality TV show, where people are purposefully selected to have incompatible personalities for “pointless/needless drama.” Oh, but then it wouldn’t be exciting to read, I hear some say…funny, “Rendezvous” was just fine – 5 stars even – and had none of this.
Also, from a technical standpoint, I have no idea whether the ships Earth made (yes there were two, a “military ship” and a “science ship”…since every Human now lives on Earth – aside from the apparently invisible people on the Moon – I have no idea why there is a “military ship” – especially one that was purposefully built to go to Rama and only has a crew of four…??? Anyway, they brought along bottles and bottles and bottles of wine, vodka, etc., for some reason, and they pour it out of the bottles into glasses and cups, and one of the character’s put their hand over the cup to prevent the liquid from floating out as they pour…but, well, watch how liquid acts on the ISS. It doesn’t pour, without gravity, surface tension rules. There’s also an entire medical closet on the science ship. I really don’t think twelve people, who should be in amazingly good health, considering, really need an entire walk-in closet full of medications for a couple of months worth of journeying/exploring.
Speaking of health, one of our Japanese scientists has a heart condition that is kept concealed from the brass because he really wants to go to Rama, and he wrote a book about it and everything. I mean, not to be that person, but I’m sure there’s dozens of people just like him, if not hundreds, who don’t have heart conditions, but he’s a nice person, I guess, so he gets to go…and guess what he dies from whilst exploring Rama? As another character states “he got to live though, instead of just survive”…and yes, true…but, he’s one of twelve people on a highly dangerous exploration mission. Is not his presence important to the other eleven people, and could his death cause potentially undue hardships to the rest of the crew? But, yes, even though fulfilling his dream could potentially kill everyone else, at least he got to…*eyeroll*
Much like all other reboots, this one also suffers from internal inconsistencies, because when should details get in the way of story, I guess. So, on the first Rama, the Cylindrical Sea was a sort of quasi-organic-metallic soup and after it unfroze, all of the biots began appearing and doing all their various functions on Rama, leading to the speculation that various factories and machines must extract materials from the sea to build them, which is also why the biots seem to dump all of the trash and debris back into the Sea. Well, on the second Rama, there are biots running around all over the place while the Sea is still frozen because…as well as throwing scrap over the cliffs down onto the ice, I guess…because…also, where’s all the scrap coming from, since, presumably, as Rama leaves a system and refreezes, it’s inert and empty…????
And, in the finest of Human traditions, at one point, the people of Earth view Rama as a threat and launches dozens of nuclear missiles at it – which Rama deflects and/or cause to detonate prematurely at a safe distance with a metallic mesh netting. Oh, speaking of, at one point the President of these YOU-NIGH-TED States calls to convince a character to agree to activating the nukes they brought on board with them because his daughter is scared and think of all the other scared daughters. The President is an incredibly famous baseball player – in 2200 – because baseball apparently underwent a phenomenally, monumental comeback – and he’s from Texas, which we know because we get his accent typed into his dialogue – hence my YOU-NIGH-TED states reference. And he’s running for reelection against the Christian Conservative candidate…because this is the absolute worst timeline.
See what I mean, though? This is a 1990s science fiction drama, taking place in like 2015, ala “Escape From Los Angeles” or something like that.
Content Warning: Rama II contains pederasty and doesn’t seem to feel too bad about it, nor paint it in a negative light. Also, there are several racial references to “Orientals,” “Asiatics,” and a negative view of “Blacks.”
Overall, this entire novel comes across as a tale set “in the not too distant future” (…way down in Deep 13…somewhere in time and space…) from a late 1980’s perspective, and not as someone writing about events occurring 200 year in the future. The morality of people, the ideas they have, the way that they act, their relationships, governmental bodies, etc., all act very 1990s science fiction.
I’m quite disappointed to say that “Rama II” has as much to do with “Rendezvous with Rama” as “Star Trek 2009” has to do with “The Original Series.” Yes, it takes place in the same universe, and yes, it acknowledges its own history in some way, but the two novels exist in their own little worlds. I call this a “soft reboot” rather than a full on reboot, because like most soft reboots, it functions as something of a sequel, even if it is essentially retelling the same story, but this time with blackjack and hookers.
It's been roughly 70 years since “Rendezvous with Rama” and everything sucks now. Unlike, “Rendezvous,” “Rama II” is chock full of exposition in an alternating chapter style format (i.e., here’s a character, here’s her backstory, or here’s a current even, here’s how we got there). Apparently, in the year or two following the initial encounter, the exuberance of finding out that we are not alone put humanity on a crazy spending spree (personal, business, and governmental) and so much was being bought and sold and traded that what we today essentially call a DDOS-style attack occurred (the term wasn’t around in the 1980s, I guess, and there wasn’t really a deliberate DDOS attack, the system was just so overwhelmed that data was strangulated). When people found out that their accounts weren’t being drained by their purchases due to the delay, they went out and spent more money that they technically didn’t have, to take advantage of the delay. How the system could still process purchases but was unable to process payments is not explained, nor do I think the author’s thought about it, seemingly convinced credit payments would occur like they did in the 80s with the whole carbon copy manual swiping devices – remember those?
This, of course, led to a tremendous economic crash called the “Great Chaos” and lasted for decades. All of the colonies on Mercury, Mars, the Moons of Jupiter, etc., were all either abandoned in a mass exodus back to Earth or the people there were left to starve as their resources ran out, since Earth was unable to provide. There is even mention of mass starvation on Earth, with over 100 million dead in a famine. Oddly, in “Rendezvous” we are told that Earth tried (and consistently fails) to keep its population under 1 billion, but not that it fails in the sense that there are billions and billions – I got the impression that maybe it was like somewhere between 1 and 2 billion – but, regardless, even with this mass starvation, there are over 1 billion Catholics and Earth and over 1 billion people tune in to watch the cosmonauts land on Rama II. Yes, cosmonauts…repeatedly, over and over, they are called cosmonauts.
We are even told that, because of this famine, and downturn, children became a precious commodity and were the subject of overprotective parents and policies. We, the readers, are specifically told to “keep this in mind” as we learn about the characters…and I have no idea why, as it’s never brought up – and with one of the characters essentially being raped at the age of 14 repeatedly and publicly, no less – it’s just not present.
Anyway, it appears that, in the ensuing decades, with everyone back living on Earth, and the Moon (even though we never visit a Moon base, or meet anyone from the Moon, or go to the Moon, or ever have the Moon mentioned again), engaged in “Disaster Socialism” and loads of dictators in order to keep the peace, as there is a mention of Japan being hit particularly hard “until recently” with the reopening of the Free Market, in which they have once again become an economic powerhouse. One of our characters, an Air Force General, also previously was a pilot in an operation the USA conducted against right-wing terrorists in Guatemala (nice to know in 200 years, we’re still engaging in “interventions”).
So, with all that, just like “Space Guard” from “Rendezvous” there is a new even deeper space monitoring system, “Excalibur” which detects another Rama-style spacecraft approaching in 2196 (which the book tells us, that after finally recovering from the “Great Chaos,” Humanity is at about the same technological level as we were in “Rendezvous”)…flash forward to 2199 and/or 2200 in which we’ve spent the ensuring three/four years prepping a crew and ships to intercept it…at about the orbit of Venus.
The crew makes perfect movie material, as well. Instead of the experienced space explorers of the first book of which there were about forty, most of whom remained nameless/faceless, we now have an ensemble cast of twelve, described perfectly and with backstories, so we can ensure that the casting directors can find the perfect actors and actresses. We have older male military officers for those distinguished older actors, we have sexy femme fatales for those up-and-coming starlets (all of whom are “exotic” since they are foreign – whip out those accents ladies), we have a few token “minorities” so we can ensure that we can cast 1990s Samuel Jackson and maybe 1990s Ken Watanabe and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, and we’ve got a couple of love interests so we can fill out the hunk quota.
Of these, our “main character,” if one can be called as such, is Nicole des Jardins, whose father was French and mother was from the Ivory Coast. She’s a former Olympian turned Doctor who had a fling with the future King of England after she won her gold, and then he cast her aside when she seemed to think they’d up together because, as Prince Henry VI states, “the people of England would never accept a half-black Queen”…in 2200. This is just one of many instances of racism peppered throughout this book. Another character, Francesca Sabatini, seeks out abortion meds because, as she states, “the world doesn’t need another half-black baby”…in 2200.
Speaking of, Francesca left home at the age of 14, seducing a rich, middle-aged Italian fashion mogul, of which we get ample descriptions of how sexy he finds this barely teenage girl, culminating in them having sex in a limo – to which we get a brief description – thank you for that…*fucking sigh* …and then said fashion designer begins to parade her around, dressed to the nines, making out with her in public, and leering at her, etc., so that EVERYONE knows what’s going on…and no one cares. Which, it’s fricking 2200…this would be front page news of every digital paper, splashed across every page of the future version of the internet, etc., etc. So much for that “extreme protection” all parents have towards their children which we were told to keep in mind earlier…lacking are also the descriptions of alternative relationships present in “Rendezvous.” Heteronormativity seems to have buried it’s claws deep into society yet again – but, on the bright side, it seems that the Big Bang Theory is back to mainstream acceptance.
Round out the cast we have Reggie Wilson – he’s the token black guy, in case you couldn’t tell from his name – and, as Francesca describes him after they bang, he’s very well-endowed…’cause you know. He’s also one of three of the crew that die, because this is the gritty reboot, and no one died in “Rendezvous,” so it was not exciting. Oh, guess what occupation both Francesco and Reggie share – something vitally important to aa scientific expedition to Rama, I hear you guess – well, you’d be wrong. They are both journalists. That super vital job required by all space exploration missions with limited crews…yep.
Then there’s Dr. Brown, whose first name escapes me, who is like the smartest person on the planet, but has also plagiarized his most important work from his ex-wife, and is described as having no interest in learning anything to do with mechanics or engineering…which seems highly useless on a space mission with a limited crew. Much like “Ever Man a Soldier” should this not be “Every Astronaut an Engineer”…it’s ever mentioned, after half the crew is dead and/or missing, that they don’t even know if they can’t pilot the ship back to Earth because no one knows all the tasks. Seems like the Selection Committee could have thought about that.
Speaking of the Selection Committee, I swear that instead of actually attempting to build a crew capable of completing the mission, they were actually casting for a reality TV show, where people are purposefully selected to have incompatible personalities for “pointless/needless drama.” Oh, but then it wouldn’t be exciting to read, I hear some say…funny, “Rendezvous” was just fine – 5 stars even – and had none of this.
Also, from a technical standpoint, I have no idea whether the ships Earth made (yes there were two, a “military ship” and a “science ship”…since every Human now lives on Earth – aside from the apparently invisible people on the Moon – I have no idea why there is a “military ship” – especially one that was purposefully built to go to Rama and only has a crew of four…??? Anyway, they brought along bottles and bottles and bottles of wine, vodka, etc., for some reason, and they pour it out of the bottles into glasses and cups, and one of the character’s put their hand over the cup to prevent the liquid from floating out as they pour…but, well, watch how liquid acts on the ISS. It doesn’t pour, without gravity, surface tension rules. There’s also an entire medical closet on the science ship. I really don’t think twelve people, who should be in amazingly good health, considering, really need an entire walk-in closet full of medications for a couple of months worth of journeying/exploring.
Speaking of health, one of our Japanese scientists has a heart condition that is kept concealed from the brass because he really wants to go to Rama, and he wrote a book about it and everything. I mean, not to be that person, but I’m sure there’s dozens of people just like him, if not hundreds, who don’t have heart conditions, but he’s a nice person, I guess, so he gets to go…and guess what he dies from whilst exploring Rama? As another character states “he got to live though, instead of just survive”…and yes, true…but, he’s one of twelve people on a highly dangerous exploration mission. Is not his presence important to the other eleven people, and could his death cause potentially undue hardships to the rest of the crew? But, yes, even though fulfilling his dream could potentially kill everyone else, at least he got to…*eyeroll*
Much like all other reboots, this one also suffers from internal inconsistencies, because when should details get in the way of story, I guess. So, on the first Rama, the Cylindrical Sea was a sort of quasi-organic-metallic soup and after it unfroze, all of the biots began appearing and doing all their various functions on Rama, leading to the speculation that various factories and machines must extract materials from the sea to build them, which is also why the biots seem to dump all of the trash and debris back into the Sea. Well, on the second Rama, there are biots running around all over the place while the Sea is still frozen because…as well as throwing scrap over the cliffs down onto the ice, I guess…because…also, where’s all the scrap coming from, since, presumably, as Rama leaves a system and refreezes, it’s inert and empty…????
And, in the finest of Human traditions, at one point, the people of Earth view Rama as a threat and launches dozens of nuclear missiles at it – which Rama deflects and/or cause to detonate prematurely at a safe distance with a metallic mesh netting. Oh, speaking of, at one point the President of these YOU-NIGH-TED States calls to convince a character to agree to activating the nukes they brought on board with them because his daughter is scared and think of all the other scared daughters. The President is an incredibly famous baseball player – in 2200 – because baseball apparently underwent a phenomenally, monumental comeback – and he’s from Texas, which we know because we get his accent typed into his dialogue – hence my YOU-NIGH-TED states reference. And he’s running for reelection against the Christian Conservative candidate…because this is the absolute worst timeline.
See what I mean, though? This is a 1990s science fiction drama, taking place in like 2015, ala “Escape From Los Angeles” or something like that.
October 19, 2016
Definitely longer than the first book, "Rama II" is also much more character-centric and person driven than the first one. This installment is all about reminiscing over some lost childhood or getting entangled in relationships with unlikely people, in highly unlikely places. I still love the idea of a ship that resembles "Rama", an enclosed ecosystem so very different but so alike to our own Earth, where stages of evolutionary development are burned over the course of hours, instead of millions of years. I found that the second book didn't add much to the story of Rama, but rather introduced a whole new set of characters and tried to make the reader very very interested in them. Even if I'm still waiting for an explanation on the alien race, I couldn't give this book less than the four stars I gave the first because I still found it riveting, read it in about 6ish hours and was adamant that I absolutely hated one of the characters (which honestly, usually only happens if the character is well-written or well-constructed). I'm just now starting the third book in very high spirits.
self note: this is my 700th shelved book on GR.
self note: this is my 700th shelved book on GR.
May 16, 2019
8/10. Media de los 20 libros leídos del autor : 7/10
Hablar sobre Clarke da casi vergüenza. Porque, ¿Quién soy yo para hablar de uno de los mas grandes de la CF?. Pero bueno, aparte de todas las alabanzas decir qe de su muy extensa producción, incuidas sus sagas de Rama o 2001, siempre me quedaré como favorita con su colección de reñatos "Cuentos de la taberna del Ciervo Blanco", geniales. Y tal vez con sus "Cuentos de la lejana Tierra" (a la que incluso Mike Oldfield le ha dedicado un album entero).
Y aquí encontramos la segunda parte del clásico "Cita con Rama", donde se desvelan parte de los misterios que nos quedaron en el libro anterior. Parte, no todos, que quedan otras dos entregas.
Hablar sobre Clarke da casi vergüenza. Porque, ¿Quién soy yo para hablar de uno de los mas grandes de la CF?. Pero bueno, aparte de todas las alabanzas decir qe de su muy extensa producción, incuidas sus sagas de Rama o 2001, siempre me quedaré como favorita con su colección de reñatos "Cuentos de la taberna del Ciervo Blanco", geniales. Y tal vez con sus "Cuentos de la lejana Tierra" (a la que incluso Mike Oldfield le ha dedicado un album entero).
Y aquí encontramos la segunda parte del clásico "Cita con Rama", donde se desvelan parte de los misterios que nos quedaron en el libro anterior. Parte, no todos, que quedan otras dos entregas.
September 3, 2010
The measure of a good book for me is two fold. Is it as good now as it was when I was 12? Do I meet people in real life and compare them back to a book's characters? Or at least that is my measure of a good book right now.
This meets both. I could not stop reading this at every opportunity: lunch, breaks, at night. Just as good as when I was a kid. And many many times I have thought that someone reminded me of a person I had only sort of met. And then I remembered that every computer programmer I meet makes me think just a little bit of Richard Wakefield. The marketing woman at work is Francesca Sabatini to a tee. And on and on.
Incredible. I love Clarke.
This meets both. I could not stop reading this at every opportunity: lunch, breaks, at night. Just as good as when I was a kid. And many many times I have thought that someone reminded me of a person I had only sort of met. And then I remembered that every computer programmer I meet makes me think just a little bit of Richard Wakefield. The marketing woman at work is Francesca Sabatini to a tee. And on and on.
Incredible. I love Clarke.
December 8, 2017
"Don't read this one, it's boring!" is what everyone warned me. Did I listen? No. But I should have. Kicked it after reading for about 10 months and realizing I still had 200 pages to go. No one should have to suffer like that. I'll pass on the sequels too, along with everything else Gentry Lee has written.
July 10, 2011
My working theory is that by 1989, when Rama II was published, anything with Arthur C. Clarke's name on it was considered above editing. Though Clarke, being creator of the series and the more prominent name, gets top billing, Lee is said to be the main perpetrator of this work, a follow-up to Clarke's award-winning 1972 Rendezvous with Rama. Both novels deal with expeditions to mysterious alien spacecraft, fifty-kilometer-long spinning cylinders containing an entire world with plains, a sea, city-like constructions. After an uninspired introduction recounting a minor training accident and subsequent crew conference, the novel launches into two chapters of exposition describing seventy years of economic history leading up to 2200. Granted, those chapters comprise only ten pages or so, but they are almost entirely superfluous, possibly existing mainly to satisfy the author's vanity (Look! I'm a rocket scientist and I can talk about economics! And I've come up with this fascinating backstory!).
The inability to leave out unnecessary detail plagues Lee's awkward writing. Time and again, he seems to blurt out, in a stage whisper, "Hey! This is THE FUTURE! See? That's not just a bus, it's an ELECTRIC bus! Did I mention that all the planes are SUPERSONIC?" Gee-whizziness may be literary MSG for technophiles, but it has a short shelf life, and in this novel it's often clumsily presented. Lee might be attempting to depict something ordinary in this WORLD OF THE FUTURE, but his bumbling attempts to draw attention to it without drawing attention to it undermine that objective. When he doesn't even try to be subtle, he becomes long-winded. Consider the following:
"The video monitor in the back of the seat in front of Nicole automatically turned on and reminded her that in only fifteen minutes the plane would land at the Kansai Transportation Center. The lovely Japanese girl on the screen suggested that now would be an excellent time to make or confirm ground transportation and housing arrangements. Nicole activated the communication system in her seat and a thin rectangular tray with a keyboard and small video area slid in front of her. In less than a minute Nicole arranged both her train ride to Kyoto and her electric trolley passage from there to her hotel. She used her Universal Credit Card (UCC) to pay for all transactions, after first correctly identifying herself by indicating that her mother's maiden name was Anawi Tiasso. When she was finished a small printed schedule listing her train and trolley identifiers, along with the times of arrival and transit (she would reach her hotel at 11:14 a.m. Japanese time), popped out one end of the tray."
Would this have seemed impressive in the dark ages of 1989? Maybe? Even so, would that justify letting this passage, which has no impact on the story, escape wholesale deletion? A fine line may exist between flavor and verbosity, but I maintain that this is a good example of the latter. In a later episode, Lee describes with the same excruciating detail how Nicole orders soup (minestrone, to be specific) and bottled water from hotel room service using a computer that gives her a precise three-minute window during which to expect delivery. The curious thing is that this attention to detail is applied mainly to insignificant activities. Don't expect to learn anything about the Newton spacecraft or the reconnaissance drones, etc. Except for RobSur (Robot Surgeon): we get an earful about that device's funky interrupt-handling code.
In theory, Rama II moves from Rendezvous with Rama's strictly hard-science-fiction storytelling to a character-based narrative. Normally, I wouldn't object, but Lee relies heavily on cheap pop psychology. [In this respect, I was reminded of Robinson's [book: Red Mars]. Incidentally, the reader who enjoyed both Red Mars and Niven's awful Ringworld may well enjoy Rama II. The Rama spacecraft is reminiscent of the ringworld (although it is more interesting), and the scientific detail and characterization are similar to those found in Red Mars (although a tad weaker). Since both Red Mars and Ringworld are considered classics, finding fans of Rama II might not be terribly difficult.] Possibly in part because of a numerically limited sample, there are primarily two distinct types of women: the conniving kind and the incorruptible; the depiction of men, on the other hand, encompasses the full range of possibilities, from brooding buffoonish to jolly buffoonish. Well, since there a couple of quiet, humble, polite "orientals" (i.e., Japanese), perhaps there's more depth, after all.
The other result of the novel being more character-driven is that much of the drama must be derived from interpersonal relations and conflict, which apparently means sacrificing realism. Despite careful vetting, the crew ends up including psychopaths and other unstable personalities (in stark contrast to the professionals in the ad-hoc mission of the first novel). I still have no idea why a widely-disliked theoretical physicist who dismisses engineers as glorified plumbers and regards empirical scientists as little better (and who loathes machines) is the de facto science leader of a mission to an alien spaceship. Well, I do have an idea, and it has nothing to do with realism. And then there's the man child with his miniature Shakespearean robots. Forsooth!
When it comes down to it, this novel amounts in quality and character pretty much to 466 pages of fan fiction. At one point, we're offered this: "'The technology of an advanced extraterrestrial species,' she reminded Richard of one of his favorite quotes, 'will be indistinguishable from magic.'" This quotation, poorly paraphrased, is Clarke's own third law of prediction. It's a fine sentiment, but seems gratuitous. Sometimes it's references like this, sometimes it's the tortured sentence structures. Strangely, though, my feelings towards the novel grew more charitable as things went on. It's entirely possible that this is a manifestation of Stockholm syndrome, but I'm going to assert that the novel actually improves along the way. Still, I find it difficult to imagine willingly reading the sequels and especially any unrelated works by Gentry Lee.
The inability to leave out unnecessary detail plagues Lee's awkward writing. Time and again, he seems to blurt out, in a stage whisper, "Hey! This is THE FUTURE! See? That's not just a bus, it's an ELECTRIC bus! Did I mention that all the planes are SUPERSONIC?" Gee-whizziness may be literary MSG for technophiles, but it has a short shelf life, and in this novel it's often clumsily presented. Lee might be attempting to depict something ordinary in this WORLD OF THE FUTURE, but his bumbling attempts to draw attention to it without drawing attention to it undermine that objective. When he doesn't even try to be subtle, he becomes long-winded. Consider the following:
"The video monitor in the back of the seat in front of Nicole automatically turned on and reminded her that in only fifteen minutes the plane would land at the Kansai Transportation Center. The lovely Japanese girl on the screen suggested that now would be an excellent time to make or confirm ground transportation and housing arrangements. Nicole activated the communication system in her seat and a thin rectangular tray with a keyboard and small video area slid in front of her. In less than a minute Nicole arranged both her train ride to Kyoto and her electric trolley passage from there to her hotel. She used her Universal Credit Card (UCC) to pay for all transactions, after first correctly identifying herself by indicating that her mother's maiden name was Anawi Tiasso. When she was finished a small printed schedule listing her train and trolley identifiers, along with the times of arrival and transit (she would reach her hotel at 11:14 a.m. Japanese time), popped out one end of the tray."
Would this have seemed impressive in the dark ages of 1989? Maybe? Even so, would that justify letting this passage, which has no impact on the story, escape wholesale deletion? A fine line may exist between flavor and verbosity, but I maintain that this is a good example of the latter. In a later episode, Lee describes with the same excruciating detail how Nicole orders soup (minestrone, to be specific) and bottled water from hotel room service using a computer that gives her a precise three-minute window during which to expect delivery. The curious thing is that this attention to detail is applied mainly to insignificant activities. Don't expect to learn anything about the Newton spacecraft or the reconnaissance drones, etc. Except for RobSur (Robot Surgeon): we get an earful about that device's funky interrupt-handling code.
In theory, Rama II moves from Rendezvous with Rama's strictly hard-science-fiction storytelling to a character-based narrative. Normally, I wouldn't object, but Lee relies heavily on cheap pop psychology. [In this respect, I was reminded of Robinson's [book: Red Mars]. Incidentally, the reader who enjoyed both Red Mars and Niven's awful Ringworld may well enjoy Rama II. The Rama spacecraft is reminiscent of the ringworld (although it is more interesting), and the scientific detail and characterization are similar to those found in Red Mars (although a tad weaker). Since both Red Mars and Ringworld are considered classics, finding fans of Rama II might not be terribly difficult.] Possibly in part because of a numerically limited sample, there are primarily two distinct types of women: the conniving kind and the incorruptible; the depiction of men, on the other hand, encompasses the full range of possibilities, from brooding buffoonish to jolly buffoonish. Well, since there a couple of quiet, humble, polite "orientals" (i.e., Japanese), perhaps there's more depth, after all.
The other result of the novel being more character-driven is that much of the drama must be derived from interpersonal relations and conflict, which apparently means sacrificing realism. Despite careful vetting, the crew ends up including psychopaths and other unstable personalities (in stark contrast to the professionals in the ad-hoc mission of the first novel). I still have no idea why a widely-disliked theoretical physicist who dismisses engineers as glorified plumbers and regards empirical scientists as little better (and who loathes machines) is the de facto science leader of a mission to an alien spaceship. Well, I do have an idea, and it has nothing to do with realism. And then there's the man child with his miniature Shakespearean robots. Forsooth!
When it comes down to it, this novel amounts in quality and character pretty much to 466 pages of fan fiction. At one point, we're offered this: "'The technology of an advanced extraterrestrial species,' she reminded Richard of one of his favorite quotes, 'will be indistinguishable from magic.'" This quotation, poorly paraphrased, is Clarke's own third law of prediction. It's a fine sentiment, but seems gratuitous. Sometimes it's references like this, sometimes it's the tortured sentence structures. Strangely, though, my feelings towards the novel grew more charitable as things went on. It's entirely possible that this is a manifestation of Stockholm syndrome, but I'm going to assert that the novel actually improves along the way. Still, I find it difficult to imagine willingly reading the sequels and especially any unrelated works by Gentry Lee.
January 26, 2025
The original rendezvous with the mysterious machine known as Rama is the subject of one of Clarke's masterpieces in my opinion. Though not cosmic horror, the book effectively stirred similar feelings in myself and many readers over the decades. But it was meant to be a one-and-done experience, to evoke a feeling of wonder over who or what created Rama and for what purpose, and what consequences could this have for the human race. The reader was meant to be left lingering on these big question marks. Yet Gentry Lee convinced a late-career Clarke to revisit Rama as a series. For years I resisted reading the later entries for fear of demystifying my memories of the original book. For whatever reason, curiosity got the better of me, and so here I am reviewing the second of the Rama cycle.
Was this a concept that could support a sequel? Certainly--the first book almost begged for it. There were so many unanswered questions! But I'm not sure anyone wanted the questions answered. I certainly didn't. But if you are like me and have avoided this novel for similar reasons, don't worry. "Rama II" doesn't give you unwanted answers.
This book does add some significant "improvements" to the first novel, if you want to call it that. The main thing is that you get a lot more backstory to the main cast, more rounded personalities, and actual character arcs. You also get details of how the first Rama indirectly impacted human civilization over the course of seventy years. I enjoyed reading this pseudohistorical account of the 22nd Century, but this is also where readers may check out. The book does get quite dry despite being much richer in world-building. Even I found myself nodding off in the first 120 pages.
The hard science fiction elements are also more fully explored. Gentry Lee was an engineer who did a lot of work on Galileo and other space exploration projects, and even partnered with Carl Sagan on developing the COSMOS series. So Rama was really in Lee's wheelhouse, and according to Clarke's foreword to this book, the series really became Lee's passion project. And it seems Lee really was the main one writing here, while Clarke served as consultant with final approval. And perhaps this is where the problems lie.
Some of the content clearly has the stamp of the times. I guess the Soviet Union is a thing again in the 22nd Century. And the two female leads seem to be lifted straight from a James Bond film from this era, one being a hero, the other a sociopath. And that leads to the other dated part about this book--an ignorance of mental health.
Just like the first book, a crew of cosmonauts are sent to explore a Rama craft that passes into our solar system. It seems intelligence was the main factor for selecting the members of this Rama II expedition, but it was clear from the earliest pages, at least to the reader, that three of them, and one in particular, should never have been allowed on a spaceship. There are just way too many immature cosmonauts with severe personality disorders who would jeopardize the mission and the safety of the crew. Granted, we've seen sci-fi space crews consisting of all types of characters, savory and unsavory. Look at the Alien franchise. But in the context of this story, space travel was not commonplace, and this particular mission was of such importance that the crew had to be carefully vetted and selected. So the main reason for conflict or drama here doesn't feel organic or believable.
Lee tries to acknowledge this flaw by saying neuroscience technology had not yet developed to the point to detect psychiatric vulnerability. But the idea that this far into the future nobody would be able to screen for mental health issues is nonsense. Hell, even when this book was written we had some pretty sophisticated measures. We certainly look for these things today when hiring high profile and high risk jobs. Well, maybe not for our political leaders, though that's a debate for another time.
The point is that Gentry Lee was doubtless a brilliant engineer, but was probably a little green in the creative writing department to attempt such a long and detailed psychological drama. The result is a largely boring soap opera with ridiculously contrived conflict between comic book stereotypes.
When we eventually do get to Rama, it feels anticlimactic. Lee treats it like old hat. "Yep, there's Rama. Looks the same as last time. Now, let's get back to what the readers really came here for--jealous assholes fighting over a blonde floozie during a dangerous and critical space mission!"
I'm glad that somebody on the writing team decided to change direction by the halfway point, but it was almost too late, because I was about to not finish. We do eventually get to some of the good stuff that would attract fans of the original to visit the sequel.
But even here, I must warn you Rama fans that this is a very different story. We're dealing with a different Rama and a much more reckless exploration crew. So things go far from smooth. In fact, this goes into some gruesome territory that I didn't expect. In some ways, parts of the second act feel more like a sci-fi horror.
I just felt obliged to mention this aspect of the book because I think it would be a major factor in your decision to read this or not. For a horror fan like me, I actually enjoyed this part. I did initially feel this material strayed too far, but after further reflection, I do think it fits the overall theme of the original Rama. Humans fear what they don't understand, and through our own stupidity, we actually create the very horrors we want to avoid.
The third act is more intimate and will feel the most familiar to fans of the first book. Rama II proves to have lots of surprises that just keep piling on the mystery. Some readers get annoyed by the blossoming romance in this part, but I thought it was cute. A bit of an engineer's idea of a romance, but cute. But it is also in the third act where we get some serious philosophical and religious meat to chew. It comes across as heavy-handed, but the message is still an important one.
To end this review on the most positive aspect, I must say that the main character, Nicole des Gardins, is one of the most likeable figures in science fiction. She borders on being a bit too perfect--born from brilliant parents, a genius herself, drop dead gorgeous, an Olympic athlete, a doctor, a consort to the Prince of Wales, yadda yadda. But she's written with a lot of pathos, and nerds of all ages will enjoy sharing her company.
I can only assume this book did fairly well, so that Clarke consented to do this with Lee two more times, while Lee went on solo to write two other entries in the same universe. But there's also a reason why sci-fi fans only ever speak of the original book.
I'm not saying Rama II is a bad novel, and in fact, I did end up enjoying it a great deal. I also am not saying that I wanted this book to be exactly the same as the previous. That wouldn't have worked, and I appreciate that Clarke and Lee tried something different. But I can see why some fans of the original might conclude that what wasn't broken didn't need fixing.
Overall, I ended up having fun with Rama II, flaws and all. It did manage to keep me curious enough to read more entries in the series, though likely nothing will ever top my first experience of reading the original book.
SCORE: 3.5, rounded to 4 biots out of 5
WORD OF THE DAY: Plenipotentiaries
Was this a concept that could support a sequel? Certainly--the first book almost begged for it. There were so many unanswered questions! But I'm not sure anyone wanted the questions answered. I certainly didn't. But if you are like me and have avoided this novel for similar reasons, don't worry. "Rama II" doesn't give you unwanted answers.
This book does add some significant "improvements" to the first novel, if you want to call it that. The main thing is that you get a lot more backstory to the main cast, more rounded personalities, and actual character arcs. You also get details of how the first Rama indirectly impacted human civilization over the course of seventy years. I enjoyed reading this pseudohistorical account of the 22nd Century, but this is also where readers may check out. The book does get quite dry despite being much richer in world-building. Even I found myself nodding off in the first 120 pages.
The hard science fiction elements are also more fully explored. Gentry Lee was an engineer who did a lot of work on Galileo and other space exploration projects, and even partnered with Carl Sagan on developing the COSMOS series. So Rama was really in Lee's wheelhouse, and according to Clarke's foreword to this book, the series really became Lee's passion project. And it seems Lee really was the main one writing here, while Clarke served as consultant with final approval. And perhaps this is where the problems lie.
Some of the content clearly has the stamp of the times. I guess the Soviet Union is a thing again in the 22nd Century. And the two female leads seem to be lifted straight from a James Bond film from this era, one being a hero, the other a sociopath. And that leads to the other dated part about this book--an ignorance of mental health.
Just like the first book, a crew of cosmonauts are sent to explore a Rama craft that passes into our solar system. It seems intelligence was the main factor for selecting the members of this Rama II expedition, but it was clear from the earliest pages, at least to the reader, that three of them, and one in particular, should never have been allowed on a spaceship. There are just way too many immature cosmonauts with severe personality disorders who would jeopardize the mission and the safety of the crew. Granted, we've seen sci-fi space crews consisting of all types of characters, savory and unsavory. Look at the Alien franchise. But in the context of this story, space travel was not commonplace, and this particular mission was of such importance that the crew had to be carefully vetted and selected. So the main reason for conflict or drama here doesn't feel organic or believable.
Lee tries to acknowledge this flaw by saying neuroscience technology had not yet developed to the point to detect psychiatric vulnerability. But the idea that this far into the future nobody would be able to screen for mental health issues is nonsense. Hell, even when this book was written we had some pretty sophisticated measures. We certainly look for these things today when hiring high profile and high risk jobs. Well, maybe not for our political leaders, though that's a debate for another time.
The point is that Gentry Lee was doubtless a brilliant engineer, but was probably a little green in the creative writing department to attempt such a long and detailed psychological drama. The result is a largely boring soap opera with ridiculously contrived conflict between comic book stereotypes.
When we eventually do get to Rama, it feels anticlimactic. Lee treats it like old hat. "Yep, there's Rama. Looks the same as last time. Now, let's get back to what the readers really came here for--jealous assholes fighting over a blonde floozie during a dangerous and critical space mission!"
I'm glad that somebody on the writing team decided to change direction by the halfway point, but it was almost too late, because I was about to not finish. We do eventually get to some of the good stuff that would attract fans of the original to visit the sequel.
But even here, I must warn you Rama fans that this is a very different story. We're dealing with a different Rama and a much more reckless exploration crew. So things go far from smooth. In fact, this goes into some gruesome territory that I didn't expect. In some ways, parts of the second act feel more like a sci-fi horror.
I just felt obliged to mention this aspect of the book because I think it would be a major factor in your decision to read this or not. For a horror fan like me, I actually enjoyed this part. I did initially feel this material strayed too far, but after further reflection, I do think it fits the overall theme of the original Rama. Humans fear what they don't understand, and through our own stupidity, we actually create the very horrors we want to avoid.
The third act is more intimate and will feel the most familiar to fans of the first book. Rama II proves to have lots of surprises that just keep piling on the mystery. Some readers get annoyed by the blossoming romance in this part, but I thought it was cute. A bit of an engineer's idea of a romance, but cute. But it is also in the third act where we get some serious philosophical and religious meat to chew. It comes across as heavy-handed, but the message is still an important one.
To end this review on the most positive aspect, I must say that the main character, Nicole des Gardins, is one of the most likeable figures in science fiction. She borders on being a bit too perfect--born from brilliant parents, a genius herself, drop dead gorgeous, an Olympic athlete, a doctor, a consort to the Prince of Wales, yadda yadda. But she's written with a lot of pathos, and nerds of all ages will enjoy sharing her company.
I can only assume this book did fairly well, so that Clarke consented to do this with Lee two more times, while Lee went on solo to write two other entries in the same universe. But there's also a reason why sci-fi fans only ever speak of the original book.
I'm not saying Rama II is a bad novel, and in fact, I did end up enjoying it a great deal. I also am not saying that I wanted this book to be exactly the same as the previous. That wouldn't have worked, and I appreciate that Clarke and Lee tried something different. But I can see why some fans of the original might conclude that what wasn't broken didn't need fixing.
Overall, I ended up having fun with Rama II, flaws and all. It did manage to keep me curious enough to read more entries in the series, though likely nothing will ever top my first experience of reading the original book.
SCORE: 3.5, rounded to 4 biots out of 5
WORD OF THE DAY: Plenipotentiaries
September 11, 2019
Szögezzük le, hogy ez a könyv nem sci-fi. Ez egy szappanoperaszerűség sci-finek álcázva, de még az álcázás se sikerült. Önmagában, mint regény nem rossz, csak én nem azért olvastam, hogy megtudjam űrhajósok (milyen űrhajósok, könyörgöm, ezek nem azok) mocskos kis titkait, így elég nagyot csalódtam, annak ellenére, hogy olvastatta magát.
A misztikus szál kissé fura volt, a katolikus szál érdekes volt, mert olyan kérdéseket vet fel, ami bármelyik keresztény ember fejében megfordulhat, de túl volt tolva egy kissé.
Francesca az a fajta nő, akit szívből megvetek és gondolatban le is köpök. Nem érdekel a múltja, annyi nő van, aki így jár, mégse lesz egy ilyen ….. belőle. Undorító.
Eléggé sablonos emberek voltak a szereplők, mindegyikről kiderült vmi, de ha már bele lett szőve a sci-fi HELYETT, akkor jobban is ki lehetett volna bontani. A romantikus részeken látszik, hogy a szerzők nem szoktak romantikus könyveket írni, bár egy Romana füzet színvonalát azért üti.
Voltak benne hibák, nem tudom, hogy fordítási-e vagy eleve benne volt, a számomra legégbekiáltóbb a baseball labda nagyságú „dinnye”, amiben több liternyi folyadék van. Tán kosárlabda nagyságú lehetett inkább (bár, még az sem elég nagy ekkora mennyiséghez).
A misztikus szál kissé fura volt, a katolikus szál érdekes volt, mert olyan kérdéseket vet fel, ami bármelyik keresztény ember fejében megfordulhat, de túl volt tolva egy kissé.
Francesca az a fajta nő, akit szívből megvetek és gondolatban le is köpök. Nem érdekel a múltja, annyi nő van, aki így jár, mégse lesz egy ilyen ….. belőle. Undorító.
Eléggé sablonos emberek voltak a szereplők, mindegyikről kiderült vmi, de ha már bele lett szőve a sci-fi HELYETT, akkor jobban is ki lehetett volna bontani. A romantikus részeken látszik, hogy a szerzők nem szoktak romantikus könyveket írni, bár egy Romana füzet színvonalát azért üti.
Voltak benne hibák, nem tudom, hogy fordítási-e vagy eleve benne volt, a számomra legégbekiáltóbb a baseball labda nagyságú „dinnye”, amiben több liternyi folyadék van. Tán kosárlabda nagyságú lehetett inkább (bár, még az sem elég nagy ekkora mennyiséghez).
April 1, 2010
I honestly couldn't get very far into this book. I really enjoyed Rendezvous with Rama, but this novel failed to hold my attention for two reasons:
The worldbuilding was well-thought out, but was written like a well-written history textbook, or the sourcebook for a roleplaying game. I wanted to get into this world, not read its history texts.
The few characters I actually saw right away didn't have a "save the cat" moment. I had no reason to empathize with them, and didn't.
As a result, I got maybe 75 pages into this rather massive tome before putting it down. Maybe I set it down just before it got better; they hadn't even lifted off of Earth yet.
Which, I guess, is the problem. I wanted to read more about the artifact. In Rendevous with Rama, the rest of human society impacts what's going on - but the focus is still on the artifact and the humans exploring it. The artifact is what made me want to read the next book in the series - stalling so long to get to it really turned me off.
I'm still vaguely interested in the concept and idea - but not enough to slog through this huge tome in order to get there.
The worldbuilding was well-thought out, but was written like a well-written history textbook, or the sourcebook for a roleplaying game. I wanted to get into this world, not read its history texts.
The few characters I actually saw right away didn't have a "save the cat" moment. I had no reason to empathize with them, and didn't.
As a result, I got maybe 75 pages into this rather massive tome before putting it down. Maybe I set it down just before it got better; they hadn't even lifted off of Earth yet.
Which, I guess, is the problem. I wanted to read more about the artifact. In Rendevous with Rama, the rest of human society impacts what's going on - but the focus is still on the artifact and the humans exploring it. The artifact is what made me want to read the next book in the series - stalling so long to get to it really turned me off.
I'm still vaguely interested in the concept and idea - but not enough to slog through this huge tome in order to get there.
March 20, 2008
The first book in the series, Rendezvous with Rama, was a good read and I was excited about this sequel. No no no. The first was focused on exploration and discovery and the characters were imperfect but hard-working, decent people. Rama II is poorly written, bogged down by inane machinations by cliched and unlikeable characters, and worst of all, reduces the fascinating mysteries of the first book to an increasingly ridiculous premise. Like with the three new Star Wars movies, I wish I could cleanse this from my brain and remember just the original book.
February 3, 2018
Imagine being assigned to use as many pure tropes as possible and to push them as far as you can -- without getting to the point of parody or satire (cause that might be fun). Then you're told to stretch that project to cover as many pages as possible, with the minimum actual plot progression.
That project would be Rama II.
That project would be Rama II.
July 25, 2019
This is soap opera, not space opera! I skipped over 2/3rds of the book. Start at chapter 25 or so if you want to read about exploring Rama 2, even then, I skipped easily a third of the rest of the book.
January 30, 2008
When this first came out I thought, oh no, not a sequel! Leave well enough alone! Well, what a treat this one was. More Rama, and even creepier than the original.
June 17, 2017
Romanın sonlarında A. Klarkın necə olub C. Li ilə birlikdə Rama mövzusunu davam etdirdiyini açıqlayan hissə var. Anladığım qədəriylə S. Kubrikdən əvvəl Klark heç kimlə və heç bir vəchlə ortaq bir əsər yaratmaq istəməyib. Hətta ilk Rama romanının sonundakı "Rama' lılar hər şeyi üç dəfə edirlər." kimi davam kitablarına "açıq qapı" tərzindəki ifadəni işlədərkən Klark and içərək deyir ki, belə bir düşüncəm heç vaxt olmayıb :) S. Kubrik ilə "2001- Kosmik Odisseya" əməkdaşlığından sonra bu məsələlərə daha tolerant yanaşmağa başlayıb. C. Li ilə birgə yazdıqları ilk əsər Cradle (Beşik, 1989) romanıdır. C. Li o vaxtlar NASA' nın Qaliley layihəsinin baş mühəndisi, eləcə də 80- ci illərdə K. Saqanın məşhur "Kosmos" sənədli seriyasında Saqanla böyük əməkdaşlığı olan birisidir.
İlk romandan fərqli olaraq, elə ilk fəsillərdə romana qatılan ədəbilik hiss olunur. Klarkın səhifələrcə texnologiya təsvirləri azalmış, yerini obrazların daha çox dialoqları, bəzi intriqalar alıb. Bəzi yerlərdə xoşa gələn bir şey olsa da, bunlar romanı Klarkın ilk yazdığı Rama' dan daha üstün bir kitab etməyib, məncə. Mənim kimi böyük gözləntilər ilə oxusanız alacağınız zövq aşağı düşəcək :)
Qısa məzmun:
İlk Rama kosmik gəmisinin Günəş Sisteminə səyahətindən 66 il sonra (2197- ci ildə) astronomlar ikinci dəfə Rama bənzəri bir cismin sistemə girdiyini xəbər verirlər. Aradan keçən 66 illik dövrdə dünyada nə kimi dəyişikliklərin baş verdiyini yazar bir neçə fəsildə geniş izah edir. İlk Rama' nın gedişindən sonrakı dünya ciddi iqtisadi böhranların baş verdiyi (bunun Rama səbəbli olduğunu düşünən böyük bir kütlə də var), kosmik səyahətlərin, layihələrin dondurulduğu, bəzi yerlərdə yerli xalqların hökumət əleyhinə üsyanlarının və s. olduğu bir dünyadır. XXII əsrin son on illiyinə doğru iqtisadi vəziyyətin yaxşılaşması ilə orbitdəki axtarış aparatları yenidən istifadə olunmağa başlanılır. II Rama araşdırmaları üçün ilk kitabdakı heyətdən fərqli olaraq bu dəfə 12 nəfər üzvdən ibarət (Nyuton heyəti) və iki kosmik gəmi ilə (birisi elmi- tədqiqat, digəri hərbi) yad cismin səthinə enilir. Heyətə SSRİ' dən (bəli dağılmayıb :) ) Valeriy Borzov rəhbərlik edir. Heyət tərkibində müxtəlik millətlərdən ikili ixtisasa sahib insanlar var. Hərbi gəminin heyəti 4, elmi- tədqiqat gəmisinin heyəti 8 nəfərdir. Romanın ilk fəsillərində heyət üzvləri və onların simulyasiyada missiyalarına hazırlıqları geniş təsvir olunur. Buna baxmayaraq gəmilərin yerdən havalanması haqqında 1-2 səhifəlik təsvirin belə olmamasını gözləməzdim. Rama II ilk Rama' dan fərqli deyil deyən bir qrup heyət üzvü ilə fərqlidir deyənlər arasında tez- tez münaqişələr yaranır. Elə ilk günlərdən bəzi fərqli cəhətlərin olduğu müşahidə olunur. Bu isə hələ başlanğıcdır. Obrazların başına gözləmədikləri hadisələr gətirməkdə C. Li məharətlidir :)
7/10
İlk romandan fərqli olaraq, elə ilk fəsillərdə romana qatılan ədəbilik hiss olunur. Klarkın səhifələrcə texnologiya təsvirləri azalmış, yerini obrazların daha çox dialoqları, bəzi intriqalar alıb. Bəzi yerlərdə xoşa gələn bir şey olsa da, bunlar romanı Klarkın ilk yazdığı Rama' dan daha üstün bir kitab etməyib, məncə. Mənim kimi böyük gözləntilər ilə oxusanız alacağınız zövq aşağı düşəcək :)
Qısa məzmun:
İlk Rama kosmik gəmisinin Günəş Sisteminə səyahətindən 66 il sonra (2197- ci ildə) astronomlar ikinci dəfə Rama bənzəri bir cismin sistemə girdiyini xəbər verirlər. Aradan keçən 66 illik dövrdə dünyada nə kimi dəyişikliklərin baş verdiyini yazar bir neçə fəsildə geniş izah edir. İlk Rama' nın gedişindən sonrakı dünya ciddi iqtisadi böhranların baş verdiyi (bunun Rama səbəbli olduğunu düşünən böyük bir kütlə də var), kosmik səyahətlərin, layihələrin dondurulduğu, bəzi yerlərdə yerli xalqların hökumət əleyhinə üsyanlarının və s. olduğu bir dünyadır. XXII əsrin son on illiyinə doğru iqtisadi vəziyyətin yaxşılaşması ilə orbitdəki axtarış aparatları yenidən istifadə olunmağa başlanılır. II Rama araşdırmaları üçün ilk kitabdakı heyətdən fərqli olaraq bu dəfə 12 nəfər üzvdən ibarət (Nyuton heyəti) və iki kosmik gəmi ilə (birisi elmi- tədqiqat, digəri hərbi) yad cismin səthinə enilir. Heyətə SSRİ' dən (bəli dağılmayıb :) ) Valeriy Borzov rəhbərlik edir. Heyət tərkibində müxtəlik millətlərdən ikili ixtisasa sahib insanlar var. Hərbi gəminin heyəti 4, elmi- tədqiqat gəmisinin heyəti 8 nəfərdir. Romanın ilk fəsillərində heyət üzvləri və onların simulyasiyada missiyalarına hazırlıqları geniş təsvir olunur. Buna baxmayaraq gəmilərin yerdən havalanması haqqında 1-2 səhifəlik təsvirin belə olmamasını gözləməzdim. Rama II ilk Rama' dan fərqli deyil deyən bir qrup heyət üzvü ilə fərqlidir deyənlər arasında tez- tez münaqişələr yaranır. Elə ilk günlərdən bəzi fərqli cəhətlərin olduğu müşahidə olunur. Bu isə hələ başlanğıcdır. Obrazların başına gözləmədikləri hadisələr gətirməkdə C. Li məharətlidir :)
7/10
March 21, 2021
2.5
Wayyyyy too much about the characters. So much time spent away from Rama. It seemed to forget what the first book was about. There was a solid 100 pages that was 4 stars in the second half.
Wayyyyy too much about the characters. So much time spent away from Rama. It seemed to forget what the first book was about. There was a solid 100 pages that was 4 stars in the second half.
September 8, 2023
LE DOY UNA ESTRELLA PORQUE PALIDECE TOTALMENTE EN COMPARACIÓN CON LA PRIMERA. Y PORQUE ES LA CLASE DE HISTORIAS QUE TE IRRITA.
Voy a ser 100% sincero. No he disfrutado de este libro para nada.
Empecé a leer la segunda entrega de Rama con mucha ilusión. Esperando encontrar una digna continuación a la historia original que tanto me gustó. Esperando saber más sobre la misteriosa nave espacial que se describe en la primera entrega, sobre su propósito y sus misteriosos creadores. Habían literalmente decenas de preguntas a las que esperaba dar respuesta al leer este libro. Pero con lo que me encontré fue una especie de historia de intriga espacial protagonizada por algunos de los más detestables y exasperantes individuos con los que he tenido el disgusto de cruzarme en una novela.
No miento cuando digo que ningún personaje de esta entrega me ha gustado. NINGUNO.
De hecho, conforme avanzaba la historia me preguntaba cada vez más y más como es que Arthur C. Clarke pudo imaginar semejante repertorio de réprobos como personajes, cuando la primera entrega nos mostraba a individuos que eran totalmente opuestos e infinitamente mas admisibles como protagonistas de su historia.
Recordaran como en "Cita con Rama" la humanidad descubre la misteriosa nave espacial y tiene que comisionar con celeridad una expedición para explorar el objeto en cuestión, antes de que abandone nuestro sistema solar. Pues si han leído la novela sabrán que dicha tripulación (aunque improvisada) estaba conformada por individuos muy capaces y profesionales, que no solamente aceptaron el reto, sino que se alzaron por sobre el y lograron volver con lo que inequívocamente podría calificarse como un triunfo.
Pues en esta entrega, ubicada 70 años después que la anterior, la humanidad vuelve a detectar un objeto entrando al sistema solar, pero en esta oportunidad con suficiente antelación como para prepararse adecuadamente para una segunda expedición. Y aquí es donde empieza el despelote general en el que se convierte esta historia. Porque en lugar de elegir a individuos capacitados profesional y psicológicamente, los gobiernos del mundo eligen a una constelación de individuos que pertenecerían más a un "Estudió de Trastornos de la Personalidad", que a la segunda expedición mas importante en la historia del planeta.
Es decir, yo no soy un experto en el tema ni nada parecido, pero no me cabe en la cabeza como es que semejante grupo podría ser elegido como exploradores y embajadores de la humanidad en una situación semejante. Todos, y quiero decir TODOS, tienen alguna clase de trastorno, o idiosincrasia asocial, o simplemente son idiotas. Los "malos" están orates, y los "buenos"... pues... no se como decirlo... o son lentos o demasiado pasivos al momento de actuar como para hacer alguna diferencia. En especial Francesca Sabatini y David Brown, que personas con semejantes inclinaciones pudieran siquiera acercarse a 10 metros de una nave espacial es inverosímil. Y Nicole des Jardins (quien es la supuesta heroína de la historia creo yo) no hace más que quedarse allí, dejando que los demás hagan lo que les de la gana o que abusen de su posición en la expedición. Toda la situación es al mismo tiempo irritante y desesperante en mi opinión. Mientras leía, no sabía si gritar de rabia, maldecir por incredulidad, o simplemente quedarme allí, con cara de imbécil, tratando de entender como podía ser posible.
No puedo recomendar este libro. De hecho "Rama II" ha pasado a la categoría de secuelas que en mi opinión nunca debieron haber sido escritas. Hubiera sido sinceramente mucho más feliz si "Cita con Rama" hubiera sido una novela única, o si Arthur C. Clarke nos hubiera regalado una historia por completo diferente para su saga... cualquier cosa menos lo que he leído.
Con todo, esta es la clase de libro que le da ganas a uno de arrancarse el cabello de la cabeza.
Y si a alguno le gusta este tipo de historias pues... como dice el dicho: "Para gustos están los colores".
Personalmente a mí no me gusto. Y mi recomendación es que si han leído la primera se queden allí. Porque la secuela les va a arruinar el panorama, créanme.
Mírenme a mí, que ya me he desanimado de leer el resto.
Voy a ser 100% sincero. No he disfrutado de este libro para nada.
Empecé a leer la segunda entrega de Rama con mucha ilusión. Esperando encontrar una digna continuación a la historia original que tanto me gustó. Esperando saber más sobre la misteriosa nave espacial que se describe en la primera entrega, sobre su propósito y sus misteriosos creadores. Habían literalmente decenas de preguntas a las que esperaba dar respuesta al leer este libro. Pero con lo que me encontré fue una especie de historia de intriga espacial protagonizada por algunos de los más detestables y exasperantes individuos con los que he tenido el disgusto de cruzarme en una novela.
No miento cuando digo que ningún personaje de esta entrega me ha gustado. NINGUNO.
De hecho, conforme avanzaba la historia me preguntaba cada vez más y más como es que Arthur C. Clarke pudo imaginar semejante repertorio de réprobos como personajes, cuando la primera entrega nos mostraba a individuos que eran totalmente opuestos e infinitamente mas admisibles como protagonistas de su historia.
Recordaran como en "Cita con Rama" la humanidad descubre la misteriosa nave espacial y tiene que comisionar con celeridad una expedición para explorar el objeto en cuestión, antes de que abandone nuestro sistema solar. Pues si han leído la novela sabrán que dicha tripulación (aunque improvisada) estaba conformada por individuos muy capaces y profesionales, que no solamente aceptaron el reto, sino que se alzaron por sobre el y lograron volver con lo que inequívocamente podría calificarse como un triunfo.
Pues en esta entrega, ubicada 70 años después que la anterior, la humanidad vuelve a detectar un objeto entrando al sistema solar, pero en esta oportunidad con suficiente antelación como para prepararse adecuadamente para una segunda expedición. Y aquí es donde empieza el despelote general en el que se convierte esta historia. Porque en lugar de elegir a individuos capacitados profesional y psicológicamente, los gobiernos del mundo eligen a una constelación de individuos que pertenecerían más a un "Estudió de Trastornos de la Personalidad", que a la segunda expedición mas importante en la historia del planeta.
Es decir, yo no soy un experto en el tema ni nada parecido, pero no me cabe en la cabeza como es que semejante grupo podría ser elegido como exploradores y embajadores de la humanidad en una situación semejante. Todos, y quiero decir TODOS, tienen alguna clase de trastorno, o idiosincrasia asocial, o simplemente son idiotas. Los "malos" están orates, y los "buenos"... pues... no se como decirlo... o son lentos o demasiado pasivos al momento de actuar como para hacer alguna diferencia. En especial Francesca Sabatini y David Brown, que personas con semejantes inclinaciones pudieran siquiera acercarse a 10 metros de una nave espacial es inverosímil. Y Nicole des Jardins (quien es la supuesta heroína de la historia creo yo) no hace más que quedarse allí, dejando que los demás hagan lo que les de la gana o que abusen de su posición en la expedición. Toda la situación es al mismo tiempo irritante y desesperante en mi opinión. Mientras leía, no sabía si gritar de rabia, maldecir por incredulidad, o simplemente quedarme allí, con cara de imbécil, tratando de entender como podía ser posible.
No puedo recomendar este libro. De hecho "Rama II" ha pasado a la categoría de secuelas que en mi opinión nunca debieron haber sido escritas. Hubiera sido sinceramente mucho más feliz si "Cita con Rama" hubiera sido una novela única, o si Arthur C. Clarke nos hubiera regalado una historia por completo diferente para su saga... cualquier cosa menos lo que he leído.
Con todo, esta es la clase de libro que le da ganas a uno de arrancarse el cabello de la cabeza.
Y si a alguno le gusta este tipo de historias pues... como dice el dicho: "Para gustos están los colores".
Personalmente a mí no me gusto. Y mi recomendación es que si han leído la primera se queden allí. Porque la secuela les va a arruinar el panorama, créanme.
Mírenme a mí, que ya me he desanimado de leer el resto.
July 15, 2018
This is the worst sequel I've ever read.
Rama II takes the setting of the first book, tears it up, and replaces it with a stereotyped vision of the 1989 "present." The interesting politics of RWR's solar system are destroyed via an incredible financial panic that eradicates all non-Earth societies, despite the fact that most of the mineral and energy wealth of the solar system in RWR came from self-sufficient planetary colonies. There's no mention of the USSR in the first book, but in Rama II there are suddenly Soviets, who mysteriously drink bottles of Ukranian vodka that, by tradition, contain worms that are said to grant the lucky imbiber supernatural powers (I have no idea why this is transposed from mezcal to vodka, and I'm not sure the author does, either). The ship in the first book has a crew of genetically engineered chimps that speak a simplified sign language called Simplish, but in RII characters are amazed that dolphins show signs of intelligence. The first book has the free-wheeling sexuality of a lot of 60s/70s scifi--the captain has two wives on different planets, but that doesn't stop him from engaging in the post-mission orgy!--but in RII, sexual mores are exactly the same as the late 1980s, with institutional homophobia and ubiquitous monogamy. The societal transformation is utterly implausible.
You would think that giving the characters more personality than RWR's blankly competent spacemen would be a mark in RII's favor, but you would be wrong; the cast is uniformly awful. One of the main characters, an Italian journalist, is a misogynistic caricature of ambitious women so egregious that I almost quit the book before the characters even got to Rama (the first TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT of the book is spent on Earth, which is totally overrun with RDA [Really Dumb Acronyms]). This Awful Woman uses her sexual wiles to seduce multiple men (including a black man, canonically defined as one of the least intelligent members of the expedition, who dies first, but don't worry--he's got a big dick)! She drugs them to control their actions! She preys upon their ambition so that she can achieve power! She is literally compared to Lady Macbeth in the text by other characters (the author seems worried that this book won't be taken seriously, so he makes sure to include inane references to Shakespeare and Dunne so you can know this is Adult Literature)! She feels like a too-revealing window into the author's psyche!
To be fair, the main character is also a woman: the daughter of an African queen who became an Olympic athlete/doctor and had a brief affair with the king of England. So the book is full of realistic human depictions.
Things get marginally more interesting once the book's focus switches from the politics of Stupid Future 1989 to exploring the alien ark, and the shift from the first book's optimism to semi-horror is kind of interesting, but on the whole this section of the book, too, is much weaker than RWR, and at times totally technically infeasible; I don't care if Richard Wakefield is one of the smartest dudes on Earth, he is not going to hack a seemingly-magical alien computer system in a matter of days.
RWR had excellent physics--waterfalls bending due to the Coriolis effect!--but in RII, amongst other snafus, robots in zero gravity are described as 'skipping'; HTF does that work, Gentry Lee? There's also a hard break towards mysticism, with magical dreams and religious visions granting supernatural awareness of far-off events. A surprisingly large portion of the book is dedicated to exploring the life of a fictional saint; this literal hagiography again feels like a weird peek into the author's subconscious.
The prose sucks.
Anyway, I wasn't really a fan of Rama II.
Rama II takes the setting of the first book, tears it up, and replaces it with a stereotyped vision of the 1989 "present." The interesting politics of RWR's solar system are destroyed via an incredible financial panic that eradicates all non-Earth societies, despite the fact that most of the mineral and energy wealth of the solar system in RWR came from self-sufficient planetary colonies. There's no mention of the USSR in the first book, but in Rama II there are suddenly Soviets, who mysteriously drink bottles of Ukranian vodka that, by tradition, contain worms that are said to grant the lucky imbiber supernatural powers (I have no idea why this is transposed from mezcal to vodka, and I'm not sure the author does, either). The ship in the first book has a crew of genetically engineered chimps that speak a simplified sign language called Simplish, but in RII characters are amazed that dolphins show signs of intelligence. The first book has the free-wheeling sexuality of a lot of 60s/70s scifi--the captain has two wives on different planets, but that doesn't stop him from engaging in the post-mission orgy!--but in RII, sexual mores are exactly the same as the late 1980s, with institutional homophobia and ubiquitous monogamy. The societal transformation is utterly implausible.
You would think that giving the characters more personality than RWR's blankly competent spacemen would be a mark in RII's favor, but you would be wrong; the cast is uniformly awful. One of the main characters, an Italian journalist, is a misogynistic caricature of ambitious women so egregious that I almost quit the book before the characters even got to Rama (the first TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT of the book is spent on Earth, which is totally overrun with RDA [Really Dumb Acronyms]). This Awful Woman uses her sexual wiles to seduce multiple men (including a black man, canonically defined as one of the least intelligent members of the expedition, who dies first, but don't worry--he's got a big dick)! She drugs them to control their actions! She preys upon their ambition so that she can achieve power! She is literally compared to Lady Macbeth in the text by other characters (the author seems worried that this book won't be taken seriously, so he makes sure to include inane references to Shakespeare and Dunne so you can know this is Adult Literature)! She feels like a too-revealing window into the author's psyche!
To be fair, the main character is also a woman: the daughter of an African queen who became an Olympic athlete/doctor and had a brief affair with the king of England. So the book is full of realistic human depictions.
Things get marginally more interesting once the book's focus switches from the politics of Stupid Future 1989 to exploring the alien ark, and the shift from the first book's optimism to semi-horror is kind of interesting, but on the whole this section of the book, too, is much weaker than RWR, and at times totally technically infeasible; I don't care if Richard Wakefield is one of the smartest dudes on Earth, he is not going to hack a seemingly-magical alien computer system in a matter of days.
RWR had excellent physics--waterfalls bending due to the Coriolis effect!--but in RII, amongst other snafus, robots in zero gravity are described as 'skipping'; HTF does that work, Gentry Lee? There's also a hard break towards mysticism, with magical dreams and religious visions granting supernatural awareness of far-off events. A surprisingly large portion of the book is dedicated to exploring the life of a fictional saint; this literal hagiography again feels like a weird peek into the author's subconscious.
The prose sucks.
Anyway, I wasn't really a fan of Rama II.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
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