Four Texts on Socrates: Euthyphro/Apology/Crito/Aristophanes' Clouds

by Plato, Aristophanes, Thomas G. West (Translator/Introduction)

Widely adopted for classroom use, this book offers translations of four major works of ancient Greek literature which treat the life and thought of Socrates, focusing particularly on his trial and defense (the platonic dialogues Euthyphro, Apology of Socrates, and Crito) and on the charges against Socrates (Aristophanes' comedy Clouds). This is the only collection of the three Platonic dialogues that also includes Clouds, a work that is fundamental for understanding the thought of Socrates in relation to the Athenian political community and to Greek poetry. Thomas G. West's introduction provides an overview of the principal themes and arguments of the four works. There are extensive explanatory notes to the translations. For this new edition, Thomas West has revised the introduction and updated the annotated bibliography, which includes the best of the secondary literature on Socrates and on the texts included in this book. In their translations, the Wests capture successfully the simplicity and vigor of straightforward Greek diction. They strive for as high a degree of accuracy as possible, subordinating concerns for elegance and smoothness to the goal of producing the most faithful and most reliable English versions of these texts.

Genres: Philosophy, Classics, Nonfiction, School, College, Politics, History

192 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1984

About the author

Plato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Reviews

[Joel · Rating 4 out of 5]

Good and challenging read, but I found it extremely difficult to masturbate to.

[Amy · Rating 4 out of 5]

Apology felt a bit over my head (hopefully we will go over it more in class) but I surprised myself with how much I enjoyed Crito. It was quite thought provoking. I was already familiar with Aristophanes but it was fun to go back. Euthyphro was also nice, but also hard to sink my teeth into.

[Luke Miller · Rating 4 out of 5]

Once I googled most of the cultural references and puns I actually found these works really entertaining. The Clouds in particular is basically the 2023 media industrial complex in a nutshell.

[Grace · Rating 4 out of 5]

Euthyphro is a mood //Socrates's last moments were haunting

[Rachel · Rating 2 out of 5]

Boring as fuck, never again.

[Alan Johnson]

These translations by Thomas G. West and Grace Starry West of Plato's Euthyphro, Apology of Socrates, and Crito and Aristophanes's The Clouds are excellent. Although I disagree with Thomas West's separately published views on American history, constitutional law, and current political issues, both of the Wests follow Straussian translation canons of being as literal as possible insofar as is consistent with standard English style, with frequent editorial notes regarding key Greek words and historical context. The result is an accurate English translation upon which one can rely.

I have commented on Plato's Euthyphro here (post 16, January 11, 2016).

I have commented on Plato's Apology of Socrates and Crito and Aristophanes's The Clouds here (post 230, June 23, 2018).

Alan E. Johnson
June 23, 2018

[Aissata Amadou]

Read for class:)
My favorite was definitely the Apology

[Anna Huener]

Don;t really want to rate this, was interesting but wouldn't have read it if not for class.

[adelaide · Rating 3 out of 5]

my thoughts on socrates are that he was a loser edgelord but also a funny dude

[aislinn · Rating 2 out of 5]

i can see why they wanted him dead

[Tara Fredenburg · Rating 3 out of 5]

This was a required reading for a (college) Freshman philosophy/Western history course. We originally only read Apology and Crito, but I came back to finish the whole book.

This is a good collection to read for those looking for more context on Socrates’ life and how the public received him. Although I found Plato’s Euthyphro, Apology, and Crito to be vastly more interesting than Aristophanes’ Clouds, I still appreciate the inclusion of Clouds because it helpfully illustrates what’s meant by the accusation that Socrates makes “the weaker speech the stronger.” Still, this play is taxing to read, and Aristophanes himself comes off as a ridiculous character when he chastises the audience for disliking his plays.

While Thomas G. West makes some insightful points in the introduction (which make the rest of the reading easier to understand), some of his comments unnecessarily glorify the past. In the process of arguing against kinds of moral relativism, he refers to the way that disregard for objective truth played a role in the emergence of the Holocaust. This is a legitimate and, frankly, scary point (what with the hack running my country); however, another consequence West warns against is the “most predatory passions” which are “celebrated in rap music and the nastier varieties of rock.” (p. 10-11) He’s pointing to stereotypical versions of certain genres of notably black music as a source of whatever “predatory passions” he’s referring to. Giving West the benefit of the doubt would lead me to hope he’s referring to misogyny, but that’s present in EVERY genre of music. West should try to be more aware of hypocrisy; one’s historically-supported warnings against racism are diluted when that person turns suddenly and says something that’s… racist.

West mentions, “We see a growing coarseness in the relations between men and women” (p. 11) as though these relations were somehow better in the past. Ask any woman with a bit of sense in her head, and you’ll find that this is a bad argument altogether. The “chivalry” of the past—which still exists today, by the way— involved treating women like objects to be placed on pedestals rather than like real, rounded people. It’s a totally unnecessary and inaccurate argument for West to make. Soon after, he states that the belief that “all men are created equal” is now “dismissed as the quaint ideology of eighteenth-century America.”(p. 11) The very founders who pretended to support this notion knew very well that they were treating anyone non-male, non-white, and non-land owning as inferior. Eighteenth-century America didn’t believe in the very philosophy for which West credits them.

All of this is just to say that I think West makes some good points about Socrates’ relevance to contemporary readers, but it's unwise to present this claim as a problem that only some of our ancestors struggled with. What a paradox it is to be both cynical about modern prejudices and celebratory of the ancestors who first put these unequal systems in place.

[Maria · Rating 4 out of 5]

Really enjoyed them all.

[Charis Wu]

I read Euthyphro and the Apology for class, but went ahead and finished the book because I wanted to mark it as read on Goodreads and it didn't feel valid if I only read half. Why do I care so much? Because I'm annoying. Anyways, some brief thoughts:

Plato - Euthyphro: I found this to be the most interesting and thought provoking dialogue out of this collection. It definitely requires burning some mental calories, but I was taken aback by its brilliance. This is the kind of philosophy I both love and hate - the kind that makes you contemplate the meaning of the meaning of life until you get a headache and want to pull a Euthyphro and ditch.

Plato - Apology: Socrates on trial. I enjoyed this dialogue and thought it was good. On one hand, I found myself agreeing with Socrates and fascinated by his pursuit of wisdom. On the other hand, I empathized with the people who were so annoyed with him that they sentenced him to death just to get him to shut up.

Plato - Crito: Socrates refuses his friend's offer of escape from prison and discusses basically social contract theory. People talk about whether cities do justice or injustice to their citizens, but what about a citizen doing justice or injustice to the city? I'm not sure I share the same perspective as Socrates, but I found this thought provoking and interesting.

Aristophanes - Clouds: LOL what the hell was this. I think this was the first Greek comedy that I've read and the difference between Greek comedy and tragedy is... very stark. Just one indicator of difference might be the number of times characters crap their pants or talk about crapping their pants. I honestly did not enjoy this and thought it was dumb. If this was really the main publicity that Socrates got in Athens during his day, then geez. That's rough.

Overall, I think the translators did a good job and I appreciated all the footnotes.

[Tibor · Rating 5 out of 5]

excerpts: Plato – "Eutyphro"
Plato – "Apology of Socrates"
Meletus – the main accuser
Anaxagoras, Socrates' teacher in his youth, accused of impiety, fleeing from the city
Battle of Arginusae, the Athenians are victorious, 8 generals sentenced to death for leaving the bodies of the fallen to escape a storm, Socrates the only one who voted for their innocence. The Peloponnesian War ends with the victory of Sparta and the establishment of the regime of the 30 tyrants
Plato – "Crito"
Theseus, the founder of Athens, went to Crete, where the Athenians were obliged to send tribute to 7 young men and 7 virgins each year, and defeated the minotaur. From then on, every year Athens sent a ship to Delos (the sacred island of Apollo). As long as the ship was gone, the city was "purified" and no executions took place. The ship left the day before Socrates' trial, hence the long period in prison.
Aristophanes – "Clouds"
Strepsiades and then the son seeks to learn the "art of speaking" at the Socratic school, in order to get rid of debtors.

[Robert Glover · Rating 4 out of 5]

These are four great classical texts. Was Socrates harmless to Athenian society or a menace? Aristophanes would choose the latter based on my reading of "The Clouds," which is a funny play.

The other three dialogues, Euthyphro, Apology, and Crito detail the trial of Socrates. His arguments are honest and consistent, but does he corrupt the youth of Athens? I'll have to read more of the dialogues.

[Audrey C · Rating 4 out of 5]

read for class. gave it a solid four stars bc it was lowkey funny i cant even lie. coming from the classic greek hero descriptions like achilles where they’re always talking about how brave and beautiful he was i find it really funny to now be reading socrates where essentially everyone thinks he’s a mean ugly bastard and he thinks he’s a gift from the gods to the city. also plato’s crito is essentially just socrates establishing the fact that he’s not like other girls🙏🤞😜

[Serge · Rating 5 out of 5]

Easily the best comparative treatment of Socrates in the dialogues and the comedies. The picture that emerges supports the thesis advanced by Jill Frank in Poetic Justice that for generations we have misread Plato’s intentions. The mimetic representation of non-persuasion for incisive comedic effect is the game that is afoot. Very happy to added this book to our summer seminar on The Republic

[Nanette · Rating 5 out of 5]

Very accessible translation of Plato & Aristophanes. I enjoyed these primary texts along with the introduction and insightful footnotes. I am intrigued by the big questions posed by Socrates (according to Plato) and how these questions remain central to humanity. Similarly it’s interesting to chart ideologies through time. Socrates is certainly worth reading as part of this genealogy.

[ren · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read the first two books in this book and I’ve enjoyed analyzing Socrates through Platos writing and how he plays into the ideals of democracy, the difference between the essence and the attribute of anything, and the power of a tyrannical majority. However, I am still way in over my head with these Antiquity books. Goodbye. I can’t wait for winter break and a fresh start.

[J. Tayler Smith · Rating 4 out of 5]

Similar to how I find other Ancient Greek works, this collection of texts are surprisingly relevant and enjoyable to read. They explore the Philosopher Socrates, particularly his trial and defense; which proves to be more insightful and entertaining than a contemporary casual reader may expect.

[Maggie · Rating 3 out of 5]

Finished Clouds and Crito. While Socrates is clever in some ways, his arguments are able to be easily criticized by the standards and knowledge of the modern day. Clouds was crude and I believe much reduced in value without as much of the recent context that would have been available at the time.

[Aiden · Rating 4 out of 5]

Great collection of greek texts. 3 Philosophical dialogues and a hilarious comedy. Definitely worth picking up for a read if you aren’t already familiar with the content. No regrets in reading it and the 4 texts together do build an interesting narrative on Socrates’ final days.

[peanutvendor · Rating 3 out of 5]

I bought this to study the three Plato texts. The introductions were illuminating, and the translation seemed fine with explanatory footnotes where necessary. I don't understand Greek and have only skimmed other translations, but it was understandable and what more can you really ask for?

[Janet · Rating 4 out of 5]

My "Western Political Theory" class.

[Christopher Hunt · Rating 3 out of 5]

I love the dialogues of Plato. The translations here were not to my taste. It is the third time I read the three books of the death of Socrates. It always hits me to the core. I strongly recommend the dialogues of Plato, but not this particular translation.

[Zach Powers · Rating 4 out of 5]

I enjoy reading plato. Iv read him every year of college, but the discussions get better each time. Read for my classical political theory class.

[Michael Greer · Rating 5 out of 5]

Study how Socrates justifies his activity. Is his defense of the life of examination convincing?

[Codingcougar · Rating 3 out of 5]

The book is written in an overly complicated way. This book was also just not my type.

In spite of this, I still think it is worth reading. The discussions of philosophy are 5/5.

[Cas]

Not a fan of the introduction but had fun otherwise! (read Apology/Clouds for class and Crito/Euthyphro on my own)

[Sami · Rating 5 out of 5]

Great translation. Thought-provoking text that still invokes relevance in the modern day.