Discourses of the Elders: The Aztec Huehuetlatolli A First English Translation

by Sebastian Purcell (translator)

A philosophy grounded not in a transcendent divinity, afterlife, or individualism, but in a rooted communal life.


Western philosophers have long claimed that God, if such a being exists, is a personal force capable of reason, and that the path to a good human life is also the path to a happy one. But what if these claims prove false, or at least deeply misleading? The Aztecs of central Mexico had a rich philosophical tradition, recorded in Latin script by Spanish clergymen and passed down for centuries in the native Nahuatl language—one of the earliest transcripts being the Huehuetlatolli, or Discourses of the Elders, compiled by Friar Andrés de Olmos circa 1535.


Novel in its form, the Discourses consists of short conversations between elders and young people on how to achieve a meaningful and morally sound life. The Aztecs had a metaphysical tradition but no concept of “being.” They considered the mind an embodied force, present not just in the brain but throughout the body. Their core values relied on collective responsibility and group wisdom, not individual thought and action, orienting life around one’s actions in this realm rather than an afterlife, distinctly opposed to the Christian beliefs that permeate Europe and America.


Sebastian Purcell’s fluency in his grandmother’s native Nahuatl brings to light the Aztec ethical landscape in brilliant clarity. Never before translated into English in its entirety, and one of the earliest post-contact texts ever recorded, Discourses of the Elders reflects the wisdom communicated by oral tradition and proves that philosophy can be active, communal, and grounded not in a “pursuit of happiness” but rather the pursuit of a meaningful life.

Genres: Philosophy, Nonfiction, History, Indigenous, Spirituality, Religion, Psychology

214 pages, Kindle Edition

Published August 29, 2023

Reviews

[Aung Sett Kyaw Min · Rating 2 out of 5]

If a philosopher, according to Nahuatl, is someone who "illuminates the world" and has genuine knowledge of "things above and below the earth" (Florentine Codex, vol. 10, ch. 8, pp. 29–30), then the Discourses are not, strictly speaking, a contemplative philosophical text, though it contains much practical wisdom in the vein of what we might call virtue ethics, such as answers to the questions "How do we live a Good life?". The Discourses are very much an earth-bound text. "It is sufficient for virtue", says the elders, that one does not stray from the well-trodden path traversed by those that came before you. For Aztecs as for pretty much the rest of us, responses to such questions will doubtlessly be colored by our conception--and sometimes 'acute' awareness of-- our own place in the cosmos (or all the realms in their totality). However, very little cosmology can be gleaned from the Discourses. To eke out an austere existence at all stages of one's life, suffused by humility before Dios or the "Lord by Whom We Live"; thus is the good life.

[Charity]

I loved the translator's introduction. Very interesting information. I read that part twice. I will say, it's a thick, dense read, much like a challenging college textbook. (For context, I haven't studied much philosophy and have never studied Mesoamerican philosophy before.)

I found this part of the philosophy comforting:

"These points bring us to the primary way in which the Nahuas understand a virtuous life. Rather than justify our existence through an eternal afterlife, the Nahuas seem to hold that the immutability of our existence, the fact that it is in a certain way, will be enough, if we live it well....The good life isn't a product, like the pot that a potter makes, but a performance, like a dancer's dance....And just as an improvisational piece does not lose its value if it is not recorded, neither do our lives lose value for not being eternal. Just as a poem is not more beautiful for being longer, so are lives are not more valuable for lasting a century. Our lives, our relationships, our earth, then, are all fragile and evanescent arrangements. None of that counts against their worth, at least not if they are good ones. It is in this sense, in the beauty of a struggle against entropic forces that we cannot win, that Nahuas hold that what is beautiful and what is good coincide." Pg. xxxvii-xxxviii

Ah! That's a beautiful idea. 

The other thing I found beautifu was the use of difrasismos-where Nahua poetry would express one idea using two key terms. For example, one's child was "the jewel, the quetzal feather". The poetry was full of difrasimos and I loved reading them, learning why they picked the items to represent the metaphor, and reading a new form of poetry (to me). 

The book became less interesting as it went on, so I just skimmed the last half. The Catholic insertions, which made it hard to know what was Aztec philosophy and what was Catholic ideas, were particularly frustrating and jarring and less interesting. As far as the conquistadors go, ruining poetry and philosophy isnt anywhere close to the worst thing they did, but man, it still sucks. 

Some quotes I liked: 

"Now my little girl, little lovebird, little woman, you have life, you have been born, you have come out, you have fallen from my breast, from my bosom." pg. 27 (It's just so tender). 

"O my daughter, my child, hear well: the earth [tlalticpac] is not a good place. It is not a place of happiness [pacoaia] or satisfaction. "It can only be said that the earth is a place of joy-fatigue, joy-pain," so the elders often say." Pg. xxv

"The Nahuas put it in a memorable expression: "Slippery, slick is the earth. *** This means, in part, that we will "slip up" in our lives, but also that others will fail us too. The Nahuas reason that all our actions are subject to an impressive degree of luck, so that whether those actions go well or poorly is often beyond our individual control. Finally, the Nahuas think that even our cosmos is fragile and that our age will pass just as all the others have. As a result, the Nahuas think the good life to consist of learning to take a stand on the slippery earth." Pg. xxxiv

[Nate Goldstein · Rating 5 out of 5]

Just won the giveaway!! Can’t wait to read!

[Dianna Soule · Rating 2 out of 5]

I feel misled by this book description. The introduction did a good job explaining the differences between Western and Aztec ways of life or thinking but the actual disclosures themselves were so full of awkward references to Christianity shoved in I feel like my time would have been better spent reading the actual Bible (if that was a thing I did). No fault to the author though since the awkward inclusion of Christianity was the fault of the priests who originally transcribed the discourses. I'm coming away from the book mad about colonialism and regretful that whatever the original discourses were is lost to history.

[Natalie T. · Rating 4 out of 5]

Unfriendly to laypeople.

[Angelica]

I'm really torn on how I feel about this book. It's interesting but it's also incredibly disappointing to see how much nuance and how many deities were wiped out and replaced by Christians with God. I got this book to learn more about Aztec culture and unfortunately I feel like I just got the classic dose of forced upon Christianity. All of that to say, this author did a great job of translating and the introduction was really informative on why and how those losses occurred in history but it was still hard to enjoy the reading and the overt Christian influences on this once-rich culture.

[Sebastian Beltran · Rating 4 out of 5]

Such heady philisophocal jargon of the Nahua as well as the early convictions of early Christian converts. The character of the tlacatecolotl is pretty interesting - the owl man sounds pretty insane

[M A · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a very unique read. It made me more interested in Aztec history and culture. If you need a lecture on how to conduct yourself well (with stark gender, class, and seniority roles) then this book has plenty.

[Rena Bransky · Rating 3 out of 5]

I love learning about the Aztecs and their beliefs and history, but I think this book might have been a little bit beyond my intellectual capacity! I had fun reading it still.

[Lauren Oertel · Rating 3 out of 5]

I’m sad to say that I struggled with this. I loved the idea, the cover image, and there was plenty to appreciate in the introduction, but once it got into the discourses section, it was much more religious and Christian-based than I was expecting. I should have paid more attention to the “recorded by Spanish clergymen” part of the description.

I have never read the Bible, and I don’t think someone could pay me to. So this reminded me of the extreme boredom I experienced as a kid the two times I went to Sunday school where my grandparents attended church services, and thankfully my parents were not religious and didn’t make me go back.

While this wasn’t for me, I am grateful to see exploration of Aztec history, and keeping Nahuatl alive.

[Margaret Elam · Rating 5 out of 5]

READ THIS !!!! FUCKS SO HARD!!!

[Heather Salonga · Rating 5 out of 5]

I help to facilitate a non-Western great books reading group and this book is so interesting. As others have written the introduction is not to be missed or skipped over. The translator gives a lot of background in Aztec aesthetics and a certain type of order that they liked and how it plays out in city and societal organization and their sentence writing structure.

We recently read the works of Mencius and a couple of years ago read the Analects of Confucius and it helps to compare their virtue ethics because this book isn't structured like Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. It reads like a lot of advice. I come from a fourth generation Japanese family in Hawaii -- how are the concepts of shame and honor the same different from the Aztecs.

He also explains his choices in translation. Our group always spends a lot of time discussing translations and choices and having an extensive explanation and footnoting helps us to understand what exactly they might have meant to say.

[Sarah Z · Rating 5 out of 5]

Absolutely fascinating, a must-read for anyone interested in philosophy.

I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of work and study that went into producing this book. While I wouldn’t consider it “entry-level” for people looking to read more philosophical texts, it is truly impressive how accessible this book is for the layperson. As long as one pays attention to the introduction, they’ll certainly have enough background to understand the broad-strokes of the Discourses.

I don’t have a deep curiosity for philosophy, Mexica history or language, anthropology, or any other field that should drive my interest in this book, but I still found it fascinating. I would recommend this for anyone looking for a new perspective or new modality of thinking and would recommend it twice as much for anyone who has a deep interest in the subject matter.

[Reader · Rating 4 out of 5]

Going into this expecting it to be an Aztec philosophy book will leave you disappointed, but after reading the introduction you are introduced to a very interesting book that takes you through a firsthand source of native voices literally being spoken over by colonial powers. I understand the catholic missionaries thought they were doing good, but it is very ironic to see them interject every once in a while to take what was a deep conversation between Nahuas of different social standing and turn it into them speaking at people instead of with people.
Idk I thought it was informative as to the nuances of language and the influences of conquering cultures on the thought and philosophy of the conquered people. Big props to the author for translating all that, he seems like a very smart guy.

[Marvin Fender · Rating 1 out of 5]

I received this book from Goodreads giveaway program on July 15, 2024. I have real issues with this book. I have tried very hard to understand this narrative but with little success. The problem is not the subject, I get that, but instead it is the presentation it just doesn't flow. Philosophy is generally a dry subject to begin with and this writers prose create a desert to wallow in. Reading is made even more difficult by footnotes that reference who knows what and instead of chapter notes which might have helped we get a dictionary (useless) and a index? which does not help. Maybe a scholar could make something of this but not me. Sorry I just did not like this book.

[Jojo Crowchild · Rating 4 out of 5]

okay, so I gave it a four stars because translating from Nahuatl to Spanish to English is a hard job and I think the author did a good job.

I wish there was a writing before Christianity. I dont want to read about colonization taking over the world again, I get enough of that in my own life as a First Nations person.

It was good to read the parts where the author said the Christians version is wrong or different than the Nahuatl.

I think its an interesting read to learn the influence of Christianity on an Indigenous nation in central America.

[Meg · Rating 5 out of 5]

fascinating, exciting stuff. my sole complaint is that the translation feels VERY literal at times, to the text's own detriment (part of translation is interpretation, no?) (i say, as if i know anything about this) but i don't know that that's a flaw so much as a choice the translator made, to explain the context via footnotes rather than work with the text itself. extremely cool, badass book either way.

[Isabella · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book provides an interesting perspective on the Aztex culture that I have never seen before. The introduction is roughly 50 pages, though it is important to read the introduction to understand the book better. For example, the introduction mentions how parents refer to their children as jewels, which is really sweet and important to know or else you could interpret the parents as very materialistic.

[Rowan Sully Sully · Rating 2 out of 5]

Found this text as dry as Hagakure and Confucius. I guess virtue ethics is not my department. There was very little that differentiated this text from Christian virtue ethics from Europe, apart from the Owlman social role description at the back of the book.

The translators introductory note was perhaps the most interesting part of the book, however, I wish he would have not literally translated the difrasismos to English to make it a smoother read.

[Rachel · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is not for everyone but if you think it’s for you, be sure to read the introduction which explains the format and choices the translator made which provide a rich context. Also worth considering reading this through multiple lenses — how these teachings were used to rule, the influence of conquistadors, and of course the philosophy itself.

[Bobby Desmond · Rating 1 out of 5]

This book is a complete waste of time. Anyone who thinks the translated text is a bona fide “discourse of the elders” that provides reliable insights on native philosophies is a blabbering idiot. It would be more accurately called Propaganda of Priests considering it merely logs the religious rules imposed by colonizing Christians.

[Chloe · Rating 3 out of 5]

Very interesting preface/ authors note, but the actual translations aren’t very sensible, so i mostly skimmed. I liked reading the footnotes and descriptions from the translator, it’s a really impressive project and opened my eyes to a culture I knew nothing about.

[Omar Al-Zaman]

Review of ARC (Goodreads giveaway)

[Nathalia · Rating 3 out of 5]

DNF. What I did get through was interesting.

[Alan Nicoll · Rating 4 out of 5]

Text me at 661-314-0174 for review if interested.

[HopeF · Rating 3 out of 5]

While this aesthetic and philosophical translation was interesting, I'll be keeping an eye out for a more direct or literal translation.

[Erica · Rating 3 out of 5]

Virtue ethics with a lot more Christianity than I expected

[Justin · Rating 5 out of 5]

An excellent & worthy addition to the philosophy canon, with some fascinating differences from "classic" "Western" patterns.

A damned shame, though, that the source material had some of the original Nahua terms excised and replaced with Christian concepts. It would be so much more without that nonsense muddying it.

[Yamil Hernández · Rating 3 out of 5]

TLDR: A rare, insightful translation of Aztec moral philosophy—offering timeless guidance on ethics, community, and living well.

[LanDroid · Rating 1 out of 5]

"And wherever you pass in front of the image of our Lord, or of His beloved ones, or of the Cross, you will honor them very much; you will bow down before Him or bend the knee.
...And you will honor the name of our Lord Jesus Christ very much..."
Paragraph 5

Obviously the Priest who collected these native American stories 500 years ago modified them significantly. Therefore it is difficult to determine what information is authentic and what is dogma & indoctrination. Imagine you order a porterhouse at a high end steak restaurant and find they thoroughly marinaded and seasoned it with peppermint, then used ketchup for sauce. Well...the steak may indeed be there, but you cannot taste it...