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Theogony and Works and Days / Elegies
Together the poetry of Hesiod and Theognis offers a superb introduction to the life and thought of ancient Greece. Hesiod's Theogoney (c. 725 BCE) is a powerful creation myth: an epic, bloody tale of dark forces, sex and violence, tracing the history of the world from primeval Chaos to the establishment of Zeus as supreme king of the gods. In contrast, Hesiod's Works and Days, written to advise his indolent brother Perseus, is an intriguing, sophisticated combination of ethical maxims, social and political comment and superstitious law. Elegiac rather than epic, the works of Theognis - written some two centuries after Hesiod - include theological speculations, love lyrics and moral advice for his protégé Kurnos, reflecting the moods and themes of an aristocratic poet who mourned a changing Greek society.
176 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 801
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1208 people want to read
About the author
Hesiod
281 books415 followersHesiod (Greek: Ησίοδος) was an ancient Greek poet generally thought to have been active between 750 and 650 BC, around the same time as Homer.
Several of Hesiod's works have survived in their entirety. Among these are Theogony, which tells the origins of the gods, their lineages, and the events that led to Zeus's rise to power, and Works and Days, a poem that describes the five Ages of Man, offers advice and wisdom, and includes myths such as Pandora's box.
Hesiod is generally regarded by Western authors as 'the first written poet in the Western tradition to regard himself as an individual persona with an active role to play in his subject.' Ancient authors credited Hesiod and Homer with establishing Greek religious customs. Modern scholars refer to him as a major source on Greek mythology, farming techniques, early economic thought, Archaic Greek astronomy, cosmology, and ancient time-keeping.
Several of Hesiod's works have survived in their entirety. Among these are Theogony, which tells the origins of the gods, their lineages, and the events that led to Zeus's rise to power, and Works and Days, a poem that describes the five Ages of Man, offers advice and wisdom, and includes myths such as Pandora's box.
Hesiod is generally regarded by Western authors as 'the first written poet in the Western tradition to regard himself as an individual persona with an active role to play in his subject.' Ancient authors credited Hesiod and Homer with establishing Greek religious customs. Modern scholars refer to him as a major source on Greek mythology, farming techniques, early economic thought, Archaic Greek astronomy, cosmology, and ancient time-keeping.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 103 reviews
January 26, 2016
Hesiod's works are classics among classics (and will teach you the detailed rules for taking a piss in ancient Greece!) but Theognis was a big surprise. He writes a number of brilliantly whiny and almost hilariously cynical sayings and short pieces, and his voice is really something different than my (meager) experience with the ancient Greeks thus far. I'd compare it more to Job in the Bible, or possibly even the bleakest classical Chinese poets. The obvious inspiration he had on Nietzsche is also only too clear. His alien place in the context of Greek poets seems to be exactly how he would have wanted it, given the many isolationist and antagonistic sentiments like this one from lines 415-418:
Searching, I've found no comrade like myself,
A faithful friend, in whom there's no deceit.
Put to the test, like gold beside mere lead,
I will be found superior every time.
Searching, I've found no comrade like myself,
A faithful friend, in whom there's no deceit.
Put to the test, like gold beside mere lead,
I will be found superior every time.
March 16, 2022
According to the introduction to this book, not many details are known about Hesiod's life. He was a famous poet and a contemporary of Homer.
Hesiod's Theogeny is a detailed poem about the gods and their genealogy. A good read if you want to get a feel of how the ancient Greeks viewed their cosmos and the gods that made it so interesting.
Hesiod's Works and Days is a series of opinions and guidance - such as a father might give to a son, or an uncle to a nephew. How to live with honor and how to avoid scandal and bad deeds.
The third poem, Elegies, is by Thoegonis, who lived a few centuries after Hesiod. Actually, it's a mish-mash of Theogonis, Solon, Mimnermus, and Eunos - and probably others. As such, it's a challenge to find any flow in this work. At the core, Theogonis, a fallen aristocrat, is trying to impart his "wisdom" to his unfaithful lover, Kurnos. Apparently, Kurnos is a bed hopper, taking it from any guy willing to get into bed with him. And so, we have the jilted, jaded, and dreadfully boring Theognis pissing and moaning about how the world and its people have failed him. Interesting as history, but otherwise, a real snooze of a read. I would have skipped this poem if I'd known.
Hesiod's Theogeny is a detailed poem about the gods and their genealogy. A good read if you want to get a feel of how the ancient Greeks viewed their cosmos and the gods that made it so interesting.
Hesiod's Works and Days is a series of opinions and guidance - such as a father might give to a son, or an uncle to a nephew. How to live with honor and how to avoid scandal and bad deeds.
The third poem, Elegies, is by Thoegonis, who lived a few centuries after Hesiod. Actually, it's a mish-mash of Theogonis, Solon, Mimnermus, and Eunos - and probably others. As such, it's a challenge to find any flow in this work. At the core, Theogonis, a fallen aristocrat, is trying to impart his "wisdom" to his unfaithful lover, Kurnos. Apparently, Kurnos is a bed hopper, taking it from any guy willing to get into bed with him. And so, we have the jilted, jaded, and dreadfully boring Theognis pissing and moaning about how the world and its people have failed him. Interesting as history, but otherwise, a real snooze of a read. I would have skipped this poem if I'd known.
September 21, 2021
Aconselho a sua leitura para os amantes da Ilíada e da Odisseia. Um poema épico extraordinário sobre os principais mitos gregos.
November 29, 2025
This three-in-one of Ancient Greek myth and poetry and philosophy makes for pleasant bursts of reading and reflecting. The two works attributed to Hesiod are, as the translator points out, possibly written by different men, different Hesiods. Their styles are so different that many modern scholars take them to be the products of different minds. I’m not sure I can buy that based only on the arguments given here, since stylistic differences like these are common in the same author’s works years apart.
Theogeny is a tiny epic, origin myth, and pantheon analysis full of dramatic scenes, violence, power, intense imagery, magic, impossibilities manifested regularly, morbid transformations and conceptions. The geneologies of the Greek gods are laid out here as is their ultimate victory and control of the universe. The whole of the Ancient Greek mythical view of reality is exhibited clearly, vividly. This piece, like both the others in the collection, was composed to be sung in the accompaniment of music. I can barely imagine the experience of watching this performance, having such a primal epic hammered musically into your head. The stories of Kronos and Zeus make up what might be the most captivating section of the myth, taking us through a comprehensive and almost encyclopedic tour of prophecies and wars and deaths and cataclysms and the formations of new beings and the demise of other beings, whose parts will become new, beautiful entities. It is musical, surreal, adventurous, unrelenting, dense with mythology.
Works and Days, possibly by the same poet, possibly by a different, more mature poet, shifts away from such overt mythological forcefulness and explores philosophical matters in the form of advice and wisdom passed down. Many of the best passages and examples of strongest writing appear here. Mythology remains and becomes weaved into the ethical and superstitious components of the work, highlighting beliefs about how to be and how to live, while recognizing the forces underlying all that existed in this world.
Translator Dorothea Wender finds this work to have superior poetic style, although in translation it is hard for me to discern its superior qualities from the Theogeny, which I thought had plenty of power and passion and artistic chops. Different, certainly. But it is a matter of taste to say which is a better poem. Works and Days succeeds as a competing piece of poetic-philosophical-myth-telling. We see themes repeated over and over, indicating some of the concerns Hesiod must have been preoccupied with. It is reasonable to assume these are things most others of his time and place must have worried about, to which this work could owe part of its popularity. Even as pure art it is fantastic, but its ethical angle is worth contemplating as well. It attempts to build a model of how a person should be, how they can recognize their purpose and their impact, and how they might cultivate themselves over a life, with proper homage to the gods and thankfulness for their aid.
Theognis’s poetic work in Elegies explores theological and moral questions while anchoring them to the mythical divinities of the time. We see here too topics that its author obviously became obsessed with, evident through repetition or through common threads tying together separate ideas. Zeus and the other gods make recurring appearances, and are given the praise and adoration necessary to gain their favor. Loving and drinking and working and suffering and singing and becoming poor, becoming rich, and learning to reflect instead of reflexively speak, and avoiding violence except when necessary and forging good character… these make up many of the elegies. A hint of Theognis comes through in his writing, a shade of who he was and what he had experienced. But he uses his personal failures and triumphs as the skeleton of a fully formed poetic life coach.
These were an absolute delight to read and to study. I got more than I expected and particularly the works of Hesiod I may return to in the future.
Theogeny is a tiny epic, origin myth, and pantheon analysis full of dramatic scenes, violence, power, intense imagery, magic, impossibilities manifested regularly, morbid transformations and conceptions. The geneologies of the Greek gods are laid out here as is their ultimate victory and control of the universe. The whole of the Ancient Greek mythical view of reality is exhibited clearly, vividly. This piece, like both the others in the collection, was composed to be sung in the accompaniment of music. I can barely imagine the experience of watching this performance, having such a primal epic hammered musically into your head. The stories of Kronos and Zeus make up what might be the most captivating section of the myth, taking us through a comprehensive and almost encyclopedic tour of prophecies and wars and deaths and cataclysms and the formations of new beings and the demise of other beings, whose parts will become new, beautiful entities. It is musical, surreal, adventurous, unrelenting, dense with mythology.
Works and Days, possibly by the same poet, possibly by a different, more mature poet, shifts away from such overt mythological forcefulness and explores philosophical matters in the form of advice and wisdom passed down. Many of the best passages and examples of strongest writing appear here. Mythology remains and becomes weaved into the ethical and superstitious components of the work, highlighting beliefs about how to be and how to live, while recognizing the forces underlying all that existed in this world.
Translator Dorothea Wender finds this work to have superior poetic style, although in translation it is hard for me to discern its superior qualities from the Theogeny, which I thought had plenty of power and passion and artistic chops. Different, certainly. But it is a matter of taste to say which is a better poem. Works and Days succeeds as a competing piece of poetic-philosophical-myth-telling. We see themes repeated over and over, indicating some of the concerns Hesiod must have been preoccupied with. It is reasonable to assume these are things most others of his time and place must have worried about, to which this work could owe part of its popularity. Even as pure art it is fantastic, but its ethical angle is worth contemplating as well. It attempts to build a model of how a person should be, how they can recognize their purpose and their impact, and how they might cultivate themselves over a life, with proper homage to the gods and thankfulness for their aid.
Theognis’s poetic work in Elegies explores theological and moral questions while anchoring them to the mythical divinities of the time. We see here too topics that its author obviously became obsessed with, evident through repetition or through common threads tying together separate ideas. Zeus and the other gods make recurring appearances, and are given the praise and adoration necessary to gain their favor. Loving and drinking and working and suffering and singing and becoming poor, becoming rich, and learning to reflect instead of reflexively speak, and avoiding violence except when necessary and forging good character… these make up many of the elegies. A hint of Theognis comes through in his writing, a shade of who he was and what he had experienced. But he uses his personal failures and triumphs as the skeleton of a fully formed poetic life coach.
These were an absolute delight to read and to study. I got more than I expected and particularly the works of Hesiod I may return to in the future.
March 18, 2016
Not the translation I needed for my Ancient Greek course but a great translation just the same. I love Hesiod's "Theogony". His "Works and Days" is also included in this volume and while not as superior as the Theogony, is still a delight to read.
These are followed by Theognis' Elegies, which is mainly focused on the changes in the Greek society of the day and was written approximately 200 years after Hesiod's works.
Theogony charts the Greek Creation myths, about the beginning of the reign of almighty Zeus and the violent yet entertaining stories of how the other gods, Titans and mortals came to be.
The course I am doing is about the philosophical nature of the epic poem.
Although I didn't like the introduction to this edition, written by Dorothea Wender, I found the Notes section at the back to be helpful and informative.
Three stars for Wender's translation with an extra star for Hesiod's drama-telling abilities.
These are followed by Theognis' Elegies, which is mainly focused on the changes in the Greek society of the day and was written approximately 200 years after Hesiod's works.
Theogony charts the Greek Creation myths, about the beginning of the reign of almighty Zeus and the violent yet entertaining stories of how the other gods, Titans and mortals came to be.
The course I am doing is about the philosophical nature of the epic poem.
Although I didn't like the introduction to this edition, written by Dorothea Wender, I found the Notes section at the back to be helpful and informative.
Three stars for Wender's translation with an extra star for Hesiod's drama-telling abilities.
February 4, 2023
An odd read.
The Theogony is a little bit more than a sequence of name-droppings in the first half and some also in the second half, if we're being honest. It could have used some more breaks to dwell into the myths it was usually referring to, but who am I to criticize a thousands of years old poem?
I happened to enjoy Works and Days a bit more, which came as a surprise to me, as it seemed like the "boring" one. The first half and it's allusions to the Myth of the Five Ages and the Myth of Pandora were great, even better than the one to Prometheus in the Theogony. The second half is a collection of life hacks Hesiod is willing to give to his brother (?) on how to handle his lands better... okay.
Anyway, I don't regret reading it.
The Theogony is a little bit more than a sequence of name-droppings in the first half and some also in the second half, if we're being honest. It could have used some more breaks to dwell into the myths it was usually referring to, but who am I to criticize a thousands of years old poem?
I happened to enjoy Works and Days a bit more, which came as a surprise to me, as it seemed like the "boring" one. The first half and it's allusions to the Myth of the Five Ages and the Myth of Pandora were great, even better than the one to Prometheus in the Theogony. The second half is a collection of life hacks Hesiod is willing to give to his brother (?) on how to handle his lands better... okay.
Anyway, I don't regret reading it.
July 11, 2023
Theognony and Works and Days are two works by the sixth century B.C. Beotian poet Hesiod. In Theogony Hesiod describes an account of how humanity arose as a creation of the gods, being in fact the fifth generation of creations (after the earlier generations of respectively golden, silver, bronze and demi-god like people). His account is full of gods begetting children with both other gods and humans; godlike vengeance and punishment for bad morals; pessimism about human fate and life in general; the badness and corruption of women (- this work probably won't get past the sensitivy readers at universities...), etc.
"But there are some who till the fields of pride
And work at evil deeds; Zeus marks them out,
And often, all the city suffers for
Their wicked schemes, and on these men, from heaven
The son of Kronos sends great punishments,
Both plague and famine, and the people die.
Their wives are barren, and their villages,
Dwindle, according to the plan of Zeus." (p. 60)
In general, Hesiod's Theogony is a tale of the necessity of a culture of shame, to check men's evil dispositions - men, for Hesiod's poetry is centred on men, masculinity and typical male virtues (according to his culture). Gods and men alike have to suffer all sorts of bad events and vengeance and courage are cardinal values:
"When Ouranos was angry with his sons
Kottos, Gyges, and Briareus,
At first he bound them up in cruel bonds
Because he envied them their looks and size
And overwhelming masculinity." (p. 43)
Women have a side role in all this, and not a positive one at that: ordered by Zeus to corrupt men, to make their existence a toil and to lead parasitical lifes:
From her [Athene] comes all the race of womankind,
The deadly female race and tribe of wives
Who live with mortal men and bring them harm,
No help to them in dreadful poverty
But ready enough to share with them in wealth.
As in the covered hive the honey-bees
Keep feeding drones, conspirators in wrong,
And daily, all day long, until the sun
Goes down, the workers hurry about their work
And buld white honeycombs, while those inside
In the sheltered storeroom, fill their bellies up
With products of the toil of others, thus,
Women are bad for men, and they conspire
In wrong, and Zeus the Thunderer made it so." (p. 42)
Hesiod's tale is typical for Ancient Greece, where landed nobility were masters over the rest (particularly women, slaves and men without property) and found this to be the natural order of things. The overly heralded masculine way of life as the highest good and the glorification of hard agricultural life as the pure life are two key patterns which are interwoven throughout all of Hesiod's work.
In his Works and Days he describes how a man should lead his life: work hard, be thrifty and frugal, make rational decisions, cultivate (male) friendships, do good to your neighbours out of prudential motives, etc. etc.
One of the more remarkable things I got from these two works was the relationship between man and nature: back then people were fundamentally bound to the seasons, to natural phenomena (like winds) and had to live in harmony with the world. This is something which is very hard to fathom for modern day, industrial city-dwellers. Another remarkable things is the etiquette Hesiod describes in Works and Days (how to pee, when to have sex, how to pass a river, etc.): superficially this seems to be pure etiquette, rules of thumb about how to do things the right way, but underlying this is Hesiod's view on the gods and their punishments and rewards: washing and thus purifying yourself before crossing a river is good and should be done because the gods order this and it is a sign of respect to them to behave this way. (Plato's Eutyphro was heavily on my mind while reading about all these prescriptions.)
In all, this is a funny read and its outdated and seemingly bizarre claims and radical ideas about the good life can feel alienating to modern day readers, but in my opinion one should approach these old texts as time capsules, offering fascinating glimpses in the ways of life of people thousands of years ago, and leave modern ethics out of it.
"But there are some who till the fields of pride
And work at evil deeds; Zeus marks them out,
And often, all the city suffers for
Their wicked schemes, and on these men, from heaven
The son of Kronos sends great punishments,
Both plague and famine, and the people die.
Their wives are barren, and their villages,
Dwindle, according to the plan of Zeus." (p. 60)
In general, Hesiod's Theogony is a tale of the necessity of a culture of shame, to check men's evil dispositions - men, for Hesiod's poetry is centred on men, masculinity and typical male virtues (according to his culture). Gods and men alike have to suffer all sorts of bad events and vengeance and courage are cardinal values:
"When Ouranos was angry with his sons
Kottos, Gyges, and Briareus,
At first he bound them up in cruel bonds
Because he envied them their looks and size
And overwhelming masculinity." (p. 43)
Women have a side role in all this, and not a positive one at that: ordered by Zeus to corrupt men, to make their existence a toil and to lead parasitical lifes:
From her [Athene] comes all the race of womankind,
The deadly female race and tribe of wives
Who live with mortal men and bring them harm,
No help to them in dreadful poverty
But ready enough to share with them in wealth.
As in the covered hive the honey-bees
Keep feeding drones, conspirators in wrong,
And daily, all day long, until the sun
Goes down, the workers hurry about their work
And buld white honeycombs, while those inside
In the sheltered storeroom, fill their bellies up
With products of the toil of others, thus,
Women are bad for men, and they conspire
In wrong, and Zeus the Thunderer made it so." (p. 42)
Hesiod's tale is typical for Ancient Greece, where landed nobility were masters over the rest (particularly women, slaves and men without property) and found this to be the natural order of things. The overly heralded masculine way of life as the highest good and the glorification of hard agricultural life as the pure life are two key patterns which are interwoven throughout all of Hesiod's work.
In his Works and Days he describes how a man should lead his life: work hard, be thrifty and frugal, make rational decisions, cultivate (male) friendships, do good to your neighbours out of prudential motives, etc. etc.
One of the more remarkable things I got from these two works was the relationship between man and nature: back then people were fundamentally bound to the seasons, to natural phenomena (like winds) and had to live in harmony with the world. This is something which is very hard to fathom for modern day, industrial city-dwellers. Another remarkable things is the etiquette Hesiod describes in Works and Days (how to pee, when to have sex, how to pass a river, etc.): superficially this seems to be pure etiquette, rules of thumb about how to do things the right way, but underlying this is Hesiod's view on the gods and their punishments and rewards: washing and thus purifying yourself before crossing a river is good and should be done because the gods order this and it is a sign of respect to them to behave this way. (Plato's Eutyphro was heavily on my mind while reading about all these prescriptions.)
In all, this is a funny read and its outdated and seemingly bizarre claims and radical ideas about the good life can feel alienating to modern day readers, but in my opinion one should approach these old texts as time capsules, offering fascinating glimpses in the ways of life of people thousands of years ago, and leave modern ethics out of it.
February 11, 2024
I really enjoyed the works of Hesiod and The Elegies of Theognis! The Wender translation was very beautiful and accessible! I highly recommend this edition!
March 3, 2016
It seems that Hesiod was appreciated by Alexandrian critics over Homer for his peaceful tone in Works and Days. The didactic tone in Works and Days and many mythical aspects seem to be influenced by Near East (Mesopotamia, Hebrew prophets) according to Martin Litchfield West and many others. Below I comment on the similarity between the poem and Islam (Abrahamic religion that descended from Hebrew and Christianity), I wrote it mostly in Arabic for quoting from Quran and Muhammad’s (pbuh) teachings.
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Theogony (2 stars)
The poem is amateur quality, he is nothing compared to Homer! Yet it is an important work for Myth historical origin and gods Genealogy. I wonder what the poet's sources for these details are, did he receive them from the Muses, and thus he is technically a prophet? Did the Greeks have prophets in the Abrahamic religions sense where they come with holy books and anyone who differs from them is a heretic? The poem is so hard to follow and didn't make sense, and really random and all over.
This is the only poetic part of the poem:
Then Pallas slept with Ocean's daughter, Styx || Who bore him shapely-ankled Victory || And Glory, in his house, and famous sons: || Power and Force. They have no house apart || From Zeus, nor any seat, nor any path || Except where God commands them, and they sit || Forever at the side of thundering Zeus
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Works and Days (5 stars)
They say the poet is either another Hesiod than Theogony's Hesiod, or that he is the same but matured. This poem is naive, in the good sense. Picture yourself in the countryside, lying on the field under the summer's sun, poor and heavy on debt because of your continuous bad judgment, your older farmer brother sharing you his trivial wisdom in life and work (farming).
After calling of muses, the poem starts thus (notice how poetic this is, unlike Theogony):
“Strife is no only child. Upon the earth || Two Strifes exist; the one is praised by those || Who come to know her, and the other blamed. || Their natures differ: for the cruel one || Makes battles thrive, and war; she wins no love || But men are forced, by the immortals' will, || To pay the grievous goddess due respect. || The other, first-born child of blackest Night, || Was set by Zeus, who lives in air, on high, || Set in the roots of earth, an aid to men. || She urges even lazy men to work: || A man grows eager, seeing another rich || From ploughing, planting, ordering his house; || So neighbor vies with neighbor in the rush || For wealth: this Strife is good for mortal men - || Potter hates potter, carpenters compete, || And beggar strives with beggar, bard with bard. || O Perses (Hesiod's younger brother), store this in your heart; do not || Let Wicked Strife persuade you, skipping work, || To gape at politicians and give eat || To all the quarrels of the market place. || He has no time for courts and public life || Who has not stored up one full year's supply || Of corn, Demeter's gift, got from the earth. || When you have grain piled high, you may dispute || And fight about the goods of other men. || But you will never get this chance again: || Come, let us settle our dispute at once, || And let our judge be Zeus, whose laws are just. || We split our property in half, but you || Grabbed at the larger part and praised to heaven || The lords who love to try a case like that, || Eaters of bribes. The fool! They do not know || That half may be worth more far than whole, || Nor how much profit lies in poor man's bread.”
The poem also has Myth, how Pandora came to being, the story flows smoothly and is not rigid like those in Theogony.
He speaks of many mortal races before humans, and he tells that one day even this race will end:
“Zeus will destroy this race of mortal men || When babies shall be born with grey hair.”
"يوماً يجعل الولدان شيبا"، الآية تدلل على هول يوم القيامة. هنا هيسيود يقول أن ولادة الأطفال بشيب هي من علامات الساعة، و يقال أن أفلاطون قد اقتبس هذا البيت من هيسيود. "أتجعل فيها من يفسد فيها و يسفك الدماء و نحن نسبّح بحمدك و نقدّس لك"، يقال أن الملائكة قالتها من تجربة، أنه كان هناك أناس خلقهم الله سبحانه قبل آدم هلكوا بسبب فسادهم. هل الأساطير اليونانية الوثنية هذه تحريف لرسالة نبي بعثه الله سبحانه لهم؟ لأن القرآن لا يتكلم مباشرةً عن أناس آخرين قبلنا لكن يُستشفّ ذلك من كلام الملائكة، أي أن هؤلاء الناس كانوا موجودين بالفعل و أخبر النبي اليوناني قصتهم لقومه لكن قصتهم لم تُكشف لرسولنا عليه الصلاة و السلام أو ربما كُشفت له لكن لم تذكر لنا نحن المسلمين بالقرآن.
“But there are some who till the fields of pride || And work at evil deeds; Zeus marks them out, || And often, all the city suffers for || Their wicked schemes, and on these men, from heaven || The son of Kronos sends great punishments, || Both plaque and famine, and the people die. || Their wives are barren, and their villages || Dwindle, according to the plan of Zeus. |||| The deathless gods are never far away; || They mark the crooked judges who grind down || Their fellow-men and do not fear the gods. || Three times ten thousand watchers-over-men, || Immortal, roam the fertile earth for Zeus. || Clothed in a mist, they visit every land || And keep a watch on law-suits and on crimes.”
الشر يعم و الخير يخص، أرى في ذلك أنه على المجتمع أن يحرص على الأمر بالمعروف و النهي عن المنكر لتهذيب المجتمع فرداً فرداً، و إلا هم أنفسهم سيتضررون، لأنهم أخلّوا بالأمانة و لم يُصلحوا الضائعين. الجزئية الثانية تتحدث عن ملائكة الذين يسجلون أعمال الشخص.
“He who harms a guest or suppliant, or acts || Unseemly, sleeping with his brother's wife, || Or in his folly, hurts an orphan child, || Or he who picks rough quarrels, and attacks || His father at the threshold of old age, || He angers Zeus himself, and in the end || He pays harsh penalties for all his sins.”
تعاليم جميلة: لا تؤذي لا الضيف ولا المتوسِّل (المُناجي؟)، لا تزني بزوجة أخيك (الزنا من الكبائر، فكيف بالزنا بزوجة الأخ)، لا تؤذي اليتيم (أكل مال اليتيم إثم عظيم فكيف بإيذائه جسدياً)، المشاجرة، ضرب الوالدين عند كِبرهم (من أشد درجات العقوق، و هي كبيرة).
“It is a curse to have a worthless neighbor; equally, || A good one is a blessing; he who is || So blest possesses something of a great worth. || No cow of yours will stray away if you || Have watchful neighbors. Measure carefully || When you must borrow from your neighbor, then, || Pay back the same, or more, if possible, || And you will have a friend in time of need.”
الجار قبل الدار! إذا استلفت من جارك، قس جيداً ما أخذت منه، ثم رد إليه مثل ما أخذت أو أكثر لتكسب صداقته. في المقابل ليس علينا فقط أن ننتظر من الجار مساعدتنا وقت الحاجة، بل علينا نحن أن نحرص على مساعدته دوماً كما يوصينا الدين حتى بسابع جار.
“Let wages promised to a friend be fixed || Beforehand; even with your brother, smile || And have a witness, for too much mistrust || And too much trust can both be ruinous.”
اتفق على الأجر حتى مع أخيك و أجعل عليكم شاهداً، عدم الثقة الزائد ة و الثقة الزائدة كلاهما قد يكونا خراباً. "أعطوا الأجير أجره قبل أن يجف عرقه" كما أمرنا المصطفى.
“Don't let a woman, wiggling her behind, || And flattering and coaxing, you in; || She wants your barn: woman is just a cheat.”
Hahahahahaha gold diggers??
“An only son preserves his father's name || And keeps the fortune growing in one house; || If you have two, you'll need to have more wealth || And live a longer time. But Zeus can find || Ways to enrich a larger family: || More children mean more help and greater gains.”
لا تخشى إعالة الأبناء، "نحن نرزقكم و إياهم" كما قال سبحانه.
“If you proceed as I have described, your corn will nod and bow || With fatness, to the ground"
I never thought corn farming can get this poetic!
"The animals || Shudder, with tails between their legs; they find || No help in furry hides, the cold goes through || Even the shaggy- breasted"
الصدر المِشْعِر ما يدفِّي؟ هاردلك تامر حسني..
"He (Boreas, god of winter) does not pierce the soft-skinned girl who stays || Indoors at home with mother, innocent || Of golden Aphrodite's works. She bathes || Her tender skin, anoints herself with oil, || And going to an inner room at home, || She takes a nap upon a winter day, || When, in his fireless house and dismal place || The Boneless One (the octopus) is gnawing on his foot. || For him, the sun no longer lights the way || To better feeding grounds: the sun has gone || To make his circuit with the dark-skinned men (Ethiopians or Egyptians); || He shines upon the Greeks a shorter time. || The horned and hornless creatures of the wood || In pain, with chattering teeth, flee through the brush, || On care in all their minds, to find a cave || Or thickly covered shelter. Like the man, || Three-legged with his staff, with shattered spine, || Whose head looks to the ground, like him they go || Wandering, looking for shelter from the snow."
Wow, this paragraph took the poem to another level. The soft-skinned girl scene is so charming and warm, though it's consistent with Hesiod contempt for women and their carefree workless lives. Then he takes out of the village (finally) and the world out there, octopus in the sea chewing his own arms out of hunger, wild animals in the wild looking for shelter, this dramatizes Winter beautifully. He tops that with his allegory of the helpless three-legged head-down old man, this is Homer quality!
"If you should turn your foolish mind to trade, || Longing to flee from debts and painful want, || I'll teach the measures of the sounding sea, || Unlearned though I am in sea-faring || And ship. For I have sailed upon the sea || Just to Euboea, once, from Aulis, where || There gathered the Achaians, long ago, || From holy Hellas, waiting the storm, || So they might sail with many men to Troy,"
Ah, if he only specified how many years earlier the Trojan War broke..
"Bring home a wife when you are ripe for it; || When you are thirty, not much more nor less, || That is the proper age for marrying. || And your wife should have matured four years before, || And marry in the fifth year. She should be || A virgin; you must teach her sober ways. || Particularly good is one who lives || Nearby, but look around you carefully, || Lest all neighbors chuckle at your choice. || A prize is no better than a worthy wife; || A bad one makes you shiver with the cold; || The greedy wife will roast her man alive || Without the aid of fire, and though he is || Quite tough, she'll bring him to a raw old age."
يا ساتر ههههههههههههه
"Never omit to wash your hands before || You pour to Zeus and to the other gods || The morning offering of sparkling wine; || They will not hear your prayers, but spit them back."
وضوء. غسيل اليدين قبل التضحية للآلهة مذكور في الأوديسة أيضاً.
"Don't leave a house half-built, for then a crow || Croaking, might sit on it, and caw bad luck."
التَطَيُّر، وهو منهي عنه في الإسلام.
"Nor should a man use water for his bath || With which a woman bathed herself before; || The punishment is awful, for a time."
Even if she was Scarlett Johansson? You are no fun, Hesiod!
At the end on the poem he talks about the days in month, how lucky a man (and at the same time how unlucky a woman) can be to be born in the 21st day, the twelfth is better for the labouring mules, and so on. Is this a primitive days-based (vs month-based) Horoscope system?
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Theognis' Elegies (3.5 stars)
الشاعر مهايطي كبير و بس يمدح نفسه، أول مرة أشوف شاعر يوناني كذا.
Theognis sure uses metaphors more than Hesiod, but Hesiod is better in quality. The wise old aristocratic man teaching is similar to Works and Days (without the farming of course), yet it is not similar, I can't pinpoint why! This anthological work (it's compiled this way since ancient times) is a collection of short poems (mostly 2 to 7 lines) on wine, human nature, war and politics, love, and trivial wisdom.
The translator provides very helpful footnotes. She also took liberty in translating, but she also provides a literal translation in the footnotes, so we get the best of both worlds. Here is an example of musical rhyming lines that she took liberty in translating:
"He won't refuse a commoner || If lots of money goes with her. || And vulgar oafs with brutish ways || Can marry noble girls, these days."
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"I don't please all men of Megara; || So what: not even Zeus is praised by all, || Whether he holds his rain or lets it fall."
"I'll blame no enemy who's honorable || Nor praise a friend who acts in a low way. || The city's pregnant, Kurnos, and I fear || She'll bear a violent leader of civil war;"
He tells his boy-lover (common in Ancient Greek) that he made him famous for all people with his poems and that even in death, people will still lip his name. All for what? The boy-lover cheated and lied to him, he is heartbroken now.
"The heaviest burden for a talky man || Is silence; everywhere he goes he talks || And is a bore, disliked by all. To sit || With him at dinner is like being jailed."
Hahahaha tell me about it!
"The bad did not spring evil from the womb: || Rather, in company with evil men"
أصدقاء السوء ذولي من آلاف السنين و هم يدّهرون، ما تابوا للحين؟؟
"Ah Poverty, you slut! Why do you stay? Why love me when I hate you? Please betray || Me for another man, and be his wife; || Why must you always share my wretched life?"
"I am surprised at you, dear Zeus! You're lord || Everywhere, hold all honor and great power; || You know the mind and heart of every man; || Your rule is supreme, my king, in all the world. || How then, O son of Kronos, can your mind || Bear to see criminals and honest men - || Both thoughtful men whose minds are moderate, || And sinful weaklings - share the same fate? || No divine rules are fixed for men, no road || To travel which will surly please the gods."
Good ol' "why bad things happen to good people?"
"A young wife is no prize for an old man. || She's like a ship whose rudder does not work; || Her anchors never hold. At night she breaks || Her moorings, and drifts to another port."
"Dam youth; damn miserable age! The one || For coming, and the other, for leaving me."
"Slave heads don't ever stand up straight, they grow || Tipped down in servitude, their necks bent low; || No rose or hyacinth comes from the wild || Squill, nor does a slave bear a free child."
(Insert Founding Fathers freedom quotes)
"Reputation's an evil, trial is best. || Many have good repute that are untried."
"Do good and you'll receive it. Why send out || Announcements? News of good work travels fast."
"Don't ever swear, 'That thing will never be!' || The gods might take offense, and they have power || Over the end. For good may come from bad || And bad from good..."
قل إن شاء الله، و عسى أن تكره شيئاً و هو خير لك، أو أن تحب شيئًا و هو شر لك!
"The criminal, who acts intentionally || And disregards the gods, would pay, himself, || The penalty for crime - not that the sins || Of fathers should bring sorrow to their sons || In later days. The evil father's sons || Who practice justice, son of Kronos, they || Who fear your anger, loving from the first || The right among fellow-citizens, || Should not be punished for their father's crimes. || I wish the gods agreed. But as things are, || Bad men escape, and others bear the brunt. || And this, king of the gods: how is it just || That he who keeps himself from unjust acts || And never violates a law or oath, || This just man finds no justice from the gods? || What other mortal, looking on this man, || Learns honor for the gods? How should he feel || Seeing the wicked, reckless man who has || No fear of god or man, glutted with gold || Won violently, while honorable men || Wear out their lives in wretched poverty?"
نقد لعدالة الآلهة، بس معه حق، لا تزر وازرة وزر أخرى!
"An ox stamps hard with his foot upon my tongue, || And I can't babble, even though I know."
Proverbial for forced silence, as noted by the translator, how poetic!
"Stamp on the empty-headed people! Jab || With your pointed goad, and lay the heavy yoke || Around their necks! You won't find, under the sun, || A people who love slavery so much."
"May Peace and Wealth prevail, so I can feast || With friends. I'm not in love with evil war."
So unhomeric!
"If Zeus took mortal actions seriously, || Since he knows the inward thoughts of every man || And all the deeds of just and unjust men || It would be devastating for mankind."
أول إشارة أراها (من الإليادة و الأوديسة و هيسيود) إلى أن زيوس يعلم ما تخفي الصدور، لأن في مواضع كثير زيوس يُخدع (من الآلهة الأخرين أقلها).
"Not if they put Mount Tmolus on my head || Would I bow my neck to my enemies' heavy yoke"
"When he's young, a man can sleep the whole night long || With a friend of his own age, and have his fill || Of making love, and he can join the flute || And sing, and go to parties. Nothing else || Is so delightful to a boy or girl. || What do I care for honor or for wealth? || Pleasure and happiness beat everything."
"Don't lay me out, when I'm dead, on a royal couch, || I'd like some good things while I'm still alive. || Boughs are as good as carpets for a corpse || To lie on: wood's not hard or soft to him."
"You're like a horse, boy, who has had his fill || Of barley elsewhere, then comes back to me, || Wanting a gentle rider, a cool spring, || Soft meadows to run in, and some shady woods."
In other words, who's your daddy??
"That man is never happy who does not || Love dogs and smooth-hooved horses and young men. || My boy, you're just like a wandering water-bird || Flying now here, now there, in search of love. || You're lovely to look at, boy, but on your head || There lies a heavy crown of silliness. || You're like a kite, you wheel around so fast || Persuaded by the words of other men."
"I once thought you, of all my friends, could be || Faithful, but now you love another man. || I, who did well by you, am tossed aside: I hope men see, and quit the love of boys!"
Quit love of boys? They can't think of quitting marriage, so is boy loving for these aristocrats just a kind of entertainment?
"As long as your cheek's so smooth, my boy, I won't || Stop kissing you, you wouldn't even stop || If the punishment for doing so were death."
"The love of boys is sweet. Even the king || Of gods, the son of Kronos, loved a boy || Ganymede, and he took him to his home || Olympus, and he gave divinity || To him, because he had the lovely bloom || Of youth. Don't be surprised, Simonides, || To see me love and serve a handsome boy."
على ما يبدو سايمونديس هذا قاعد ينتقد ثيوقنيس على حبه للأولاد فيبرر ثيوقنيس فعلته بأن زيوس قد أحب ولداً مرة. يعني مو كل المجتمع اليوناني كان متقبل للموضوع المقزز هذا مثل ما يُصوّر لنا!
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Theogony (2 stars)
The poem is amateur quality, he is nothing compared to Homer! Yet it is an important work for Myth historical origin and gods Genealogy. I wonder what the poet's sources for these details are, did he receive them from the Muses, and thus he is technically a prophet? Did the Greeks have prophets in the Abrahamic religions sense where they come with holy books and anyone who differs from them is a heretic? The poem is so hard to follow and didn't make sense, and really random and all over.
This is the only poetic part of the poem:
Then Pallas slept with Ocean's daughter, Styx || Who bore him shapely-ankled Victory || And Glory, in his house, and famous sons: || Power and Force. They have no house apart || From Zeus, nor any seat, nor any path || Except where God commands them, and they sit || Forever at the side of thundering Zeus
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Works and Days (5 stars)
They say the poet is either another Hesiod than Theogony's Hesiod, or that he is the same but matured. This poem is naive, in the good sense. Picture yourself in the countryside, lying on the field under the summer's sun, poor and heavy on debt because of your continuous bad judgment, your older farmer brother sharing you his trivial wisdom in life and work (farming).
After calling of muses, the poem starts thus (notice how poetic this is, unlike Theogony):
“Strife is no only child. Upon the earth || Two Strifes exist; the one is praised by those || Who come to know her, and the other blamed. || Their natures differ: for the cruel one || Makes battles thrive, and war; she wins no love || But men are forced, by the immortals' will, || To pay the grievous goddess due respect. || The other, first-born child of blackest Night, || Was set by Zeus, who lives in air, on high, || Set in the roots of earth, an aid to men. || She urges even lazy men to work: || A man grows eager, seeing another rich || From ploughing, planting, ordering his house; || So neighbor vies with neighbor in the rush || For wealth: this Strife is good for mortal men - || Potter hates potter, carpenters compete, || And beggar strives with beggar, bard with bard. || O Perses (Hesiod's younger brother), store this in your heart; do not || Let Wicked Strife persuade you, skipping work, || To gape at politicians and give eat || To all the quarrels of the market place. || He has no time for courts and public life || Who has not stored up one full year's supply || Of corn, Demeter's gift, got from the earth. || When you have grain piled high, you may dispute || And fight about the goods of other men. || But you will never get this chance again: || Come, let us settle our dispute at once, || And let our judge be Zeus, whose laws are just. || We split our property in half, but you || Grabbed at the larger part and praised to heaven || The lords who love to try a case like that, || Eaters of bribes. The fool! They do not know || That half may be worth more far than whole, || Nor how much profit lies in poor man's bread.”
The poem also has Myth, how Pandora came to being, the story flows smoothly and is not rigid like those in Theogony.
He speaks of many mortal races before humans, and he tells that one day even this race will end:
“Zeus will destroy this race of mortal men || When babies shall be born with grey hair.”
"يوماً يجعل الولدان شيبا"، الآية تدلل على هول يوم القيامة. هنا هيسيود يقول أن ولادة الأطفال بشيب هي من علامات الساعة، و يقال أن أفلاطون قد اقتبس هذا البيت من هيسيود. "أتجعل فيها من يفسد فيها و يسفك الدماء و نحن نسبّح بحمدك و نقدّس لك"، يقال أن الملائكة قالتها من تجربة، أنه كان هناك أناس خلقهم الله سبحانه قبل آدم هلكوا بسبب فسادهم. هل الأساطير اليونانية الوثنية هذه تحريف لرسالة نبي بعثه الله سبحانه لهم؟ لأن القرآن لا يتكلم مباشرةً عن أناس آخرين قبلنا لكن يُستشفّ ذلك من كلام الملائكة، أي أن هؤلاء الناس كانوا موجودين بالفعل و أخبر النبي اليوناني قصتهم لقومه لكن قصتهم لم تُكشف لرسولنا عليه الصلاة و السلام أو ربما كُشفت له لكن لم تذكر لنا نحن المسلمين بالقرآن.
“But there are some who till the fields of pride || And work at evil deeds; Zeus marks them out, || And often, all the city suffers for || Their wicked schemes, and on these men, from heaven || The son of Kronos sends great punishments, || Both plaque and famine, and the people die. || Their wives are barren, and their villages || Dwindle, according to the plan of Zeus. |||| The deathless gods are never far away; || They mark the crooked judges who grind down || Their fellow-men and do not fear the gods. || Three times ten thousand watchers-over-men, || Immortal, roam the fertile earth for Zeus. || Clothed in a mist, they visit every land || And keep a watch on law-suits and on crimes.”
الشر يعم و الخير يخص، أرى في ذلك أنه على المجتمع أن يحرص على الأمر بالمعروف و النهي عن المنكر لتهذيب المجتمع فرداً فرداً، و إلا هم أنفسهم سيتضررون، لأنهم أخلّوا بالأمانة و لم يُصلحوا الضائعين. الجزئية الثانية تتحدث عن ملائكة الذين يسجلون أعمال الشخص.
“He who harms a guest or suppliant, or acts || Unseemly, sleeping with his brother's wife, || Or in his folly, hurts an orphan child, || Or he who picks rough quarrels, and attacks || His father at the threshold of old age, || He angers Zeus himself, and in the end || He pays harsh penalties for all his sins.”
تعاليم جميلة: لا تؤذي لا الضيف ولا المتوسِّل (المُناجي؟)، لا تزني بزوجة أخيك (الزنا من الكبائر، فكيف بالزنا بزوجة الأخ)، لا تؤذي اليتيم (أكل مال اليتيم إثم عظيم فكيف بإيذائه جسدياً)، المشاجرة، ضرب الوالدين عند كِبرهم (من أشد درجات العقوق، و هي كبيرة).
“It is a curse to have a worthless neighbor; equally, || A good one is a blessing; he who is || So blest possesses something of a great worth. || No cow of yours will stray away if you || Have watchful neighbors. Measure carefully || When you must borrow from your neighbor, then, || Pay back the same, or more, if possible, || And you will have a friend in time of need.”
الجار قبل الدار! إذا استلفت من جارك، قس جيداً ما أخذت منه، ثم رد إليه مثل ما أخذت أو أكثر لتكسب صداقته. في المقابل ليس علينا فقط أن ننتظر من الجار مساعدتنا وقت الحاجة، بل علينا نحن أن نحرص على مساعدته دوماً كما يوصينا الدين حتى بسابع جار.
“Let wages promised to a friend be fixed || Beforehand; even with your brother, smile || And have a witness, for too much mistrust || And too much trust can both be ruinous.”
اتفق على الأجر حتى مع أخيك و أجعل عليكم شاهداً، عدم الثقة الزائد ة و الثقة الزائدة كلاهما قد يكونا خراباً. "أعطوا الأجير أجره قبل أن يجف عرقه" كما أمرنا المصطفى.
“Don't let a woman, wiggling her behind, || And flattering and coaxing, you in; || She wants your barn: woman is just a cheat.”
Hahahahahaha gold diggers??
“An only son preserves his father's name || And keeps the fortune growing in one house; || If you have two, you'll need to have more wealth || And live a longer time. But Zeus can find || Ways to enrich a larger family: || More children mean more help and greater gains.”
لا تخشى إعالة الأبناء، "نحن نرزقكم و إياهم" كما قال سبحانه.
“If you proceed as I have described, your corn will nod and bow || With fatness, to the ground"
I never thought corn farming can get this poetic!
"The animals || Shudder, with tails between their legs; they find || No help in furry hides, the cold goes through || Even the shaggy- breasted"
الصدر المِشْعِر ما يدفِّي؟ هاردلك تامر حسني..
"He (Boreas, god of winter) does not pierce the soft-skinned girl who stays || Indoors at home with mother, innocent || Of golden Aphrodite's works. She bathes || Her tender skin, anoints herself with oil, || And going to an inner room at home, || She takes a nap upon a winter day, || When, in his fireless house and dismal place || The Boneless One (the octopus) is gnawing on his foot. || For him, the sun no longer lights the way || To better feeding grounds: the sun has gone || To make his circuit with the dark-skinned men (Ethiopians or Egyptians); || He shines upon the Greeks a shorter time. || The horned and hornless creatures of the wood || In pain, with chattering teeth, flee through the brush, || On care in all their minds, to find a cave || Or thickly covered shelter. Like the man, || Three-legged with his staff, with shattered spine, || Whose head looks to the ground, like him they go || Wandering, looking for shelter from the snow."
Wow, this paragraph took the poem to another level. The soft-skinned girl scene is so charming and warm, though it's consistent with Hesiod contempt for women and their carefree workless lives. Then he takes out of the village (finally) and the world out there, octopus in the sea chewing his own arms out of hunger, wild animals in the wild looking for shelter, this dramatizes Winter beautifully. He tops that with his allegory of the helpless three-legged head-down old man, this is Homer quality!
"If you should turn your foolish mind to trade, || Longing to flee from debts and painful want, || I'll teach the measures of the sounding sea, || Unlearned though I am in sea-faring || And ship. For I have sailed upon the sea || Just to Euboea, once, from Aulis, where || There gathered the Achaians, long ago, || From holy Hellas, waiting the storm, || So they might sail with many men to Troy,"
Ah, if he only specified how many years earlier the Trojan War broke..
"Bring home a wife when you are ripe for it; || When you are thirty, not much more nor less, || That is the proper age for marrying. || And your wife should have matured four years before, || And marry in the fifth year. She should be || A virgin; you must teach her sober ways. || Particularly good is one who lives || Nearby, but look around you carefully, || Lest all neighbors chuckle at your choice. || A prize is no better than a worthy wife; || A bad one makes you shiver with the cold; || The greedy wife will roast her man alive || Without the aid of fire, and though he is || Quite tough, she'll bring him to a raw old age."
يا ساتر ههههههههههههه
"Never omit to wash your hands before || You pour to Zeus and to the other gods || The morning offering of sparkling wine; || They will not hear your prayers, but spit them back."
وضوء. غسيل اليدين قبل التضحية للآلهة مذكور في الأوديسة أيضاً.
"Don't leave a house half-built, for then a crow || Croaking, might sit on it, and caw bad luck."
التَطَيُّر، وهو منهي عنه في الإسلام.
"Nor should a man use water for his bath || With which a woman bathed herself before; || The punishment is awful, for a time."
Even if she was Scarlett Johansson? You are no fun, Hesiod!
At the end on the poem he talks about the days in month, how lucky a man (and at the same time how unlucky a woman) can be to be born in the 21st day, the twelfth is better for the labouring mules, and so on. Is this a primitive days-based (vs month-based) Horoscope system?
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Theognis' Elegies (3.5 stars)
الشاعر مهايطي كبير و بس يمدح نفسه، أول مرة أشوف شاعر يوناني كذا.
Theognis sure uses metaphors more than Hesiod, but Hesiod is better in quality. The wise old aristocratic man teaching is similar to Works and Days (without the farming of course), yet it is not similar, I can't pinpoint why! This anthological work (it's compiled this way since ancient times) is a collection of short poems (mostly 2 to 7 lines) on wine, human nature, war and politics, love, and trivial wisdom.
The translator provides very helpful footnotes. She also took liberty in translating, but she also provides a literal translation in the footnotes, so we get the best of both worlds. Here is an example of musical rhyming lines that she took liberty in translating:
"He won't refuse a commoner || If lots of money goes with her. || And vulgar oafs with brutish ways || Can marry noble girls, these days."
-----
"I don't please all men of Megara; || So what: not even Zeus is praised by all, || Whether he holds his rain or lets it fall."
"I'll blame no enemy who's honorable || Nor praise a friend who acts in a low way. || The city's pregnant, Kurnos, and I fear || She'll bear a violent leader of civil war;"
He tells his boy-lover (common in Ancient Greek) that he made him famous for all people with his poems and that even in death, people will still lip his name. All for what? The boy-lover cheated and lied to him, he is heartbroken now.
"The heaviest burden for a talky man || Is silence; everywhere he goes he talks || And is a bore, disliked by all. To sit || With him at dinner is like being jailed."
Hahahaha tell me about it!
"The bad did not spring evil from the womb: || Rather, in company with evil men"
أصدقاء السوء ذولي من آلاف السنين و هم يدّهرون، ما تابوا للحين؟؟
"Ah Poverty, you slut! Why do you stay? Why love me when I hate you? Please betray || Me for another man, and be his wife; || Why must you always share my wretched life?"
"I am surprised at you, dear Zeus! You're lord || Everywhere, hold all honor and great power; || You know the mind and heart of every man; || Your rule is supreme, my king, in all the world. || How then, O son of Kronos, can your mind || Bear to see criminals and honest men - || Both thoughtful men whose minds are moderate, || And sinful weaklings - share the same fate? || No divine rules are fixed for men, no road || To travel which will surly please the gods."
Good ol' "why bad things happen to good people?"
"A young wife is no prize for an old man. || She's like a ship whose rudder does not work; || Her anchors never hold. At night she breaks || Her moorings, and drifts to another port."
"Dam youth; damn miserable age! The one || For coming, and the other, for leaving me."
"Slave heads don't ever stand up straight, they grow || Tipped down in servitude, their necks bent low; || No rose or hyacinth comes from the wild || Squill, nor does a slave bear a free child."
(Insert Founding Fathers freedom quotes)
"Reputation's an evil, trial is best. || Many have good repute that are untried."
"Do good and you'll receive it. Why send out || Announcements? News of good work travels fast."
"Don't ever swear, 'That thing will never be!' || The gods might take offense, and they have power || Over the end. For good may come from bad || And bad from good..."
قل إن شاء الله، و عسى أن تكره شيئاً و هو خير لك، أو أن تحب شيئًا و هو شر لك!
"The criminal, who acts intentionally || And disregards the gods, would pay, himself, || The penalty for crime - not that the sins || Of fathers should bring sorrow to their sons || In later days. The evil father's sons || Who practice justice, son of Kronos, they || Who fear your anger, loving from the first || The right among fellow-citizens, || Should not be punished for their father's crimes. || I wish the gods agreed. But as things are, || Bad men escape, and others bear the brunt. || And this, king of the gods: how is it just || That he who keeps himself from unjust acts || And never violates a law or oath, || This just man finds no justice from the gods? || What other mortal, looking on this man, || Learns honor for the gods? How should he feel || Seeing the wicked, reckless man who has || No fear of god or man, glutted with gold || Won violently, while honorable men || Wear out their lives in wretched poverty?"
نقد لعدالة الآلهة، بس معه حق، لا تزر وازرة وزر أخرى!
"An ox stamps hard with his foot upon my tongue, || And I can't babble, even though I know."
Proverbial for forced silence, as noted by the translator, how poetic!
"Stamp on the empty-headed people! Jab || With your pointed goad, and lay the heavy yoke || Around their necks! You won't find, under the sun, || A people who love slavery so much."
"May Peace and Wealth prevail, so I can feast || With friends. I'm not in love with evil war."
So unhomeric!
"If Zeus took mortal actions seriously, || Since he knows the inward thoughts of every man || And all the deeds of just and unjust men || It would be devastating for mankind."
أول إشارة أراها (من الإليادة و الأوديسة و هيسيود) إلى أن زيوس يعلم ما تخفي الصدور، لأن في مواضع كثير زيوس يُخدع (من الآلهة الأخرين أقلها).
"Not if they put Mount Tmolus on my head || Would I bow my neck to my enemies' heavy yoke"
"When he's young, a man can sleep the whole night long || With a friend of his own age, and have his fill || Of making love, and he can join the flute || And sing, and go to parties. Nothing else || Is so delightful to a boy or girl. || What do I care for honor or for wealth? || Pleasure and happiness beat everything."
"Don't lay me out, when I'm dead, on a royal couch, || I'd like some good things while I'm still alive. || Boughs are as good as carpets for a corpse || To lie on: wood's not hard or soft to him."
"You're like a horse, boy, who has had his fill || Of barley elsewhere, then comes back to me, || Wanting a gentle rider, a cool spring, || Soft meadows to run in, and some shady woods."
In other words, who's your daddy??
"That man is never happy who does not || Love dogs and smooth-hooved horses and young men. || My boy, you're just like a wandering water-bird || Flying now here, now there, in search of love. || You're lovely to look at, boy, but on your head || There lies a heavy crown of silliness. || You're like a kite, you wheel around so fast || Persuaded by the words of other men."
"I once thought you, of all my friends, could be || Faithful, but now you love another man. || I, who did well by you, am tossed aside: I hope men see, and quit the love of boys!"
Quit love of boys? They can't think of quitting marriage, so is boy loving for these aristocrats just a kind of entertainment?
"As long as your cheek's so smooth, my boy, I won't || Stop kissing you, you wouldn't even stop || If the punishment for doing so were death."
"The love of boys is sweet. Even the king || Of gods, the son of Kronos, loved a boy || Ganymede, and he took him to his home || Olympus, and he gave divinity || To him, because he had the lovely bloom || Of youth. Don't be surprised, Simonides, || To see me love and serve a handsome boy."
على ما يبدو سايمونديس هذا قاعد ينتقد ثيوقنيس على حبه للأولاد فيبرر ثيوقنيس فعلته بأن زيوس قد أحب ولداً مرة. يعني مو كل المجتمع اليوناني كان متقبل للموضوع المقزز هذا مثل ما يُصوّر لنا!
December 20, 2023
I mean... Hesiod's Theogony was pretty good, but Works and Days and Theognis' Elegies dragged for too long. I do appreciate the advice in Works and Days, and the one rhyming passage in Elegies. It was actually very fun to read, and the rhyme pattern and rhythm reminds me of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory for some reason. It also lends itself well to being spoken very fast, lol. Here it is:
July 26, 2015
This would average to a 2.5 overall.
Although Hesiod was given a similar status to Homer in Greek society, it seems pretty clear that they are not really on the same level, whichever of the two poems of either you compare. At first, confusingly, I thought the introduction was trying to claim that the Theogony and Works and Days were written by two different people (which is entirely plausible, and the introduction does at least bring this up and discuss it), hence the dual authorship in the title, but instead they’ve included a lesser-known work, Theognis’ Elegies, in this edition. I’m not sure why the decision was made to pair Hesiod and Theognis together like this, but I’m at least glad to have read them both now, albeit for very different reasons.
Theogony ★★☆ (I considered giving this three stars, but it was really more of a 2½.)
As the title might suggest, this poem concerns the creation of the universe and how the theological Greek canon of gods as we know it came to be. In the introduction: “The Theogony was such a strain to translate; I kept having to check an impulse to improve it a little, on nearly every page. It was wonderful, exciting material…but the writer had managed to make so much of it tedious.” This didn’t exactly give me high hopes for reading the text itself, but I found some value in it nonetheless. It is obviously impressive to see so many different aspects of Greek mythology drawn together for an origin story, and the absence of mankind is an interesting detail, and may suggest that we are not, in fact, front and centre in existence, and the poem (and general Greek mentality) seems to attest to this as well.
I would agree with the introduction that it has a skewed sense of proportion (dramatic episodes given too little weight and more minor details too much), but for me the mediocre style didn’t tarnish the content enough to detract from my enjoyment, whereas in the Works and Days the style wasn’t enough to make up for it. I might feel differently reading them in Greek, but in English the divide is not that wide for me. Since the Greeks had no real definitive holy book a text like this might give some idea of where they were actually getting their mythological canon from outside of the less-definitive folklore passed down, but in terms of its actual merits as a piece of poetry it is nothing particularly special.
Works and Days ★
This poem is more of a didactic type, and like a lot of didactic poetry attempts to take a mundane subject (in this case, farming and moral instruction) and use poetic skill to make it seem fit for artistic focus, even when it really isn’t. In contrast to the Theogony, “The Works and Days was a pleasure to work on, and full of surprises…And this was the poem I had dreaded, expecting dull moralizing and a farmer’s almanac.” Perhaps the writing is more fluent in this work, but that was not enough to make up for the dismal subject matter and extremely annoying authorial tone (to be fair, there are other ancient works that are well written with plain subject matter that are very valuable, but I don’t find this to be one of them because I don’t think the writing ‘makes up for’ the content here). Obviously, I don’t agree with the translator. It seems like its main value is as a historical and cultural curiosity, and not really worth reading aside from that.
The style, as the translator promised, is fairly good, and admittedly better than the Theogony but was not anything particularly special in the end and the text could not save itself on this merit alone – and I do wish the translator wouldn’t try and make the verses rhyme (!) since this sometimes lends to meandering away from the accuracy of the translation, and (at least for me) doesn’t increase enjoyment of the verse in English. It baffles me that people have ever felt it appropriate to compare Hesiod with Homer.
Also, misogyny kills. (Seriously, I can’t be expected to like a work in which this comes across quite as strongly as it does here, because who could possibly enjoy having abuse hurled at them and their kind? The Theogony has misogyny as well, but it is for the most part confined to one myth (and at least the goddesses are portrayed favourably, which seems a bit like cognitive dissonance to me since they are surely female as well) whereas here the prejudice seems to permeate much of the verse. I might have given this two stars since the farming advice is at least somewhat interesting and new to me, but I have no qualms about bringing it down to a 1.5 for this reason alone.)
Theognis’ Elegies ★★★★
Usually when a lesser-known work or author is tagged onto a more famous one, the content seems pretty underwhelming (especially by comparison to the major work), but here I had the opposite experience. I was disappointed by my experience with Hesiod, but Theognis (whom I have studied in the past, but only very briefly and only a few verses of his) far exceeded my expectations and seemed even better by comparison to the former.
To some, as the translator said, Theognis may come across as unpleasant and self-important, but personally I found myself a lot more sympathetic towards him than she seemed to be: I enjoyed his misanthropy (I’ll take misanthropy over misogyny any time) and his general mistrust of other people, and felt I could connect with how jaded he was in a way that is unusual for me to feel with ancient writers. It very much enlivened the reading experience and has made him stand out to me from the more banal subject matter of some other ancient poets.
At first the elegies only held my interest somewhat and I didn’t find them particularly special, but as I got more into them I found myself connecting with Theognis’ mentality and social concerns more and more. If anything, it seems like Hesiod isn’t really for me, and Theognis was the saving grace of this collection. I hope I have the chance to study him in more depth in the future.
Although Hesiod was given a similar status to Homer in Greek society, it seems pretty clear that they are not really on the same level, whichever of the two poems of either you compare. At first, confusingly, I thought the introduction was trying to claim that the Theogony and Works and Days were written by two different people (which is entirely plausible, and the introduction does at least bring this up and discuss it), hence the dual authorship in the title, but instead they’ve included a lesser-known work, Theognis’ Elegies, in this edition. I’m not sure why the decision was made to pair Hesiod and Theognis together like this, but I’m at least glad to have read them both now, albeit for very different reasons.
Theogony ★★☆ (I considered giving this three stars, but it was really more of a 2½.)
As the title might suggest, this poem concerns the creation of the universe and how the theological Greek canon of gods as we know it came to be. In the introduction: “The Theogony was such a strain to translate; I kept having to check an impulse to improve it a little, on nearly every page. It was wonderful, exciting material…but the writer had managed to make so much of it tedious.” This didn’t exactly give me high hopes for reading the text itself, but I found some value in it nonetheless. It is obviously impressive to see so many different aspects of Greek mythology drawn together for an origin story, and the absence of mankind is an interesting detail, and may suggest that we are not, in fact, front and centre in existence, and the poem (and general Greek mentality) seems to attest to this as well.
I would agree with the introduction that it has a skewed sense of proportion (dramatic episodes given too little weight and more minor details too much), but for me the mediocre style didn’t tarnish the content enough to detract from my enjoyment, whereas in the Works and Days the style wasn’t enough to make up for it. I might feel differently reading them in Greek, but in English the divide is not that wide for me. Since the Greeks had no real definitive holy book a text like this might give some idea of where they were actually getting their mythological canon from outside of the less-definitive folklore passed down, but in terms of its actual merits as a piece of poetry it is nothing particularly special.
Works and Days ★
This poem is more of a didactic type, and like a lot of didactic poetry attempts to take a mundane subject (in this case, farming and moral instruction) and use poetic skill to make it seem fit for artistic focus, even when it really isn’t. In contrast to the Theogony, “The Works and Days was a pleasure to work on, and full of surprises…And this was the poem I had dreaded, expecting dull moralizing and a farmer’s almanac.” Perhaps the writing is more fluent in this work, but that was not enough to make up for the dismal subject matter and extremely annoying authorial tone (to be fair, there are other ancient works that are well written with plain subject matter that are very valuable, but I don’t find this to be one of them because I don’t think the writing ‘makes up for’ the content here). Obviously, I don’t agree with the translator. It seems like its main value is as a historical and cultural curiosity, and not really worth reading aside from that.
The style, as the translator promised, is fairly good, and admittedly better than the Theogony but was not anything particularly special in the end and the text could not save itself on this merit alone – and I do wish the translator wouldn’t try and make the verses rhyme (!) since this sometimes lends to meandering away from the accuracy of the translation, and (at least for me) doesn’t increase enjoyment of the verse in English. It baffles me that people have ever felt it appropriate to compare Hesiod with Homer.
Also, misogyny kills. (Seriously, I can’t be expected to like a work in which this comes across quite as strongly as it does here, because who could possibly enjoy having abuse hurled at them and their kind? The Theogony has misogyny as well, but it is for the most part confined to one myth (and at least the goddesses are portrayed favourably, which seems a bit like cognitive dissonance to me since they are surely female as well) whereas here the prejudice seems to permeate much of the verse. I might have given this two stars since the farming advice is at least somewhat interesting and new to me, but I have no qualms about bringing it down to a 1.5 for this reason alone.)
Theognis’ Elegies ★★★★
Usually when a lesser-known work or author is tagged onto a more famous one, the content seems pretty underwhelming (especially by comparison to the major work), but here I had the opposite experience. I was disappointed by my experience with Hesiod, but Theognis (whom I have studied in the past, but only very briefly and only a few verses of his) far exceeded my expectations and seemed even better by comparison to the former.
To some, as the translator said, Theognis may come across as unpleasant and self-important, but personally I found myself a lot more sympathetic towards him than she seemed to be: I enjoyed his misanthropy (I’ll take misanthropy over misogyny any time) and his general mistrust of other people, and felt I could connect with how jaded he was in a way that is unusual for me to feel with ancient writers. It very much enlivened the reading experience and has made him stand out to me from the more banal subject matter of some other ancient poets.
At first the elegies only held my interest somewhat and I didn’t find them particularly special, but as I got more into them I found myself connecting with Theognis’ mentality and social concerns more and more. If anything, it seems like Hesiod isn’t really for me, and Theognis was the saving grace of this collection. I hope I have the chance to study him in more depth in the future.
December 26, 2013
It's good to finally have read Hesiod, even if only in translation. He definitely is far more supportive of Zeus than Homer is. Strangely enough, I was reading this while also reading Samuel Butler's Homer (that's not too strange, I suppose) and also while playing through the God of War series again: three quite different perspectives on the gods all at the same time made for an interesting week. Theognis was all right, but aside from some interesting couplets here and there, it mostly boils down to a petulant old guy tired of young Grecians playing on his lawn, pretty much. Nothing is really gained from him about the classical Greek mind (other than "the classical Greek mind gets petulant and repetitive in old age," so nothing new about human nature there). Putting these two together makes for a nice affordable look at the ancient Greek world, so it's definitely worth the read at least once. The editor (of the Penguin edition), though, tends to intrude a few times, certainly more than necessary. As interesting as it is to know her favorite Theognis elegies, why does she translate her favorites into sonnet-like things, warping the content and tone almost completely? Fortunately she gives us more literal prose translations in the endnotes when she does this, but it's still a bit confusing. Similarly, her argument for why there must be two Hesiods is unconvincing: because Words and Days comes after Theogony, and because the style is better, clearly the same person couldn't have written both. Are poets not allowed to improve in the ancient world? Are they only allowed to get worse (assuming the Iliad came before the Odyssey and Antigone came before Oedipus at Colonus)? Are Shakespeare's early plays better than his middle-late plays? Strange, really, but get past the intrusive editorialship and read Hesiod for yourself (yes, Works and Days is better than Theogony, which shouldn't be surprising to you even though it is surprising to the editor, since learning how to live the quality human life is more important and interesting - even to the classicist - than Hesiod's version of the origin of the divine and semi-divine pantheon of Ancient Greece ... before Kratos killed all of them single-handedly) and even stick around for Theognis, especially if you want a first-hand account of the tribulations of being in love with young Grecian boys (such a fickle lot, apparently).
January 28, 2020
Greek poetry, fine. What I loved most about this collection was the translator's (Dorothea Wender) candor. She straight up says things like (and I'm paraphrasing here, obviously) "Yeah, these two Hesiod poems were written by different people. You can tell because one of them fucking sucks. Translating this was awful, so don't blame me if you hate it." One footnote reminds us that the poetry was just as tedious and repetitive in the source material.
She also has notes like "I made some of these rhyme because I felt like it."
Do you, Dorothea! It's all communicated in a much more professional manner, but Dorothea's got opinions and is doing it her way.
I am all about forming relationships with translators while I'm reading.
She also has notes like "I made some of these rhyme because I felt like it."
Do you, Dorothea! It's all communicated in a much more professional manner, but Dorothea's got opinions and is doing it her way.
I am all about forming relationships with translators while I'm reading.
April 16, 2019
For book club we read Theogony and Works and Days. My particular translation by Dorothea Schmidt Wender is a Penguin Classics and was in delightful verse. I had feared that the reading would be boring, but it was not. Instead I was interested, engaged, and amused. War and Days seemed to me to be Leviticus, Proverbs, and a Farmer’s Almanac rolled into one. While Theogony was the listing of all the gods, where they came from, and what they did.
July 25, 2021
Hesiod’s “Theogony” is a succinct and poetic telling of the creation myths: from the primordial deities of Gaia and Ouranos comes the proliferation of Titans; son Kronus castrates the sky father with an adamantine sickle for his child-swallowing tendencies, only to repeat the trend himself later. The severed genitals leave a foam upon the surface of the Aegean Sea, which begets the Furies and the goddess of love and beauty herself: Aphrodite. The story continues to the Titanochamy and beyond to the indomitable reign of Zeus and the Olympians.
The translator, Dorothea Wender, paints Hesiod so candidly in her introduction, and practically lambasts him for being an inferior bard to Homer. She laments his ineptness in articulating drama or employing anything resembling a literary device, as Homer undoubtedly could. She does have a point; the endless chronology of names, births and obscure deities is tedious to read. I was a little underwhelmed with Theogony overall; perhaps as I read it soon after Ovid.
In ‘Works and Days’ Hesiod’s attempts to morally edify his brother Perses through a collection of ethical maxims, experiential observations about farming and sailing, and general superstitions. Overall, it reads like a hymn extolling the benefits of prudence and hard work.
So far, so so. Little did I know, I was in for a treat with Theognis and his “Elegies”. This chapter alone ensured the book a four-star rating. In the foreword, Wender contends that all the poems of Theognis are in the elegiac metre, which she says was normally accompanied by the flute. According to Wender, elegiac couplets were considered by the Greeks to be appropriate for many themes: Love, laments for the dead, scurrilous personal abuse, philosophical observations, political propaganda, and riddles. This makes the following quotes all the more comical when you imagine him saying these words, then blowing a little flute to top it off...
“The heaviest burden for a talky man is silence; everywhere he goes he talks and is a bore, disliked by all. To sit with him at dinner is like being jailed.”
For some reason, I can’t help but picture Theognis as some kind of Ron Burgundy/Morrissey hybrid; playing his flute and dishing out verbal hell to his enemies. He doesn’t suffer fools lightly either; you wouldn’t want to be on a recipient of his vitriol, he comes out with some distinctly Machiavellian lines:
“Flatter your enemy; but when you get the upper hand, without pretext, strike back!”
And then again, acerbic pearls like this one:
“Good sir; if you possessed a brain as big as your stupidity, or we’re as wise as you are stupid now, you’d be admired by all, as much as you are now despised.”
Werder is a bit harsh on old Theognis though: “Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person”. She also claims he’s an elitist, preferring the company of his fellow aristocrats and haughtily looking down upon the lower classes. This isn’t necessarily how I interpreted the passages she is alluding to:
“The bad did not spring evil from the womb. Rather, in the company with evil men they learned low ways, vile words, and violence, and swallowed everything their low friends said”.
If by “low friends” he means morally low, how is he wrong to say that keeping bad company will harm one’s character? Seems perfectly cogent to me; you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas! And can she really disparage someone’s character that harshly when they offer such irreproachable epigrams as:
“bad men are often rich, and good men poor. But we would not exchange our virtue for their wealth. Our virtue always is secure, while money goes to this one, then to that.”
Or again, when addressing his lover Kurnos:
“A good man keeps his character in bad times and in good; but if God gives money and good life to a bad man the fool cannot hold back his evilness.”
So what’s Wender’s gripe? I’d hazard a guess, it was Theognis’ use of bigoted terminology when he figuratively describes poverty as a “slut”:
“Ah poverty, you slut! Why do you stay?”
(a little bit of flute)
“Why love me when I hate you? Please betray me for another man, and be his wife!”
(More flute)
“Why must you always share my wretched life?”
(Vigorous flute playing...)
Wender spills a good deal of ink in both introductions telling us of how misogynistic both Hesiod and Theognis are - which I won’t deny, they are - but it strikes me as a bit strange why a woman who finds an ancient poet so detestable, would commit to earnestly translating such works for her job. She could have picked other ancient poets to transcribe after all. I personally would eschew the poems of an Ancient Greek misandrist if her poetry offended me that much.
I’m going to go all out and say I sympathise with Theognis, he’s a bit of a jaded misanthrope who wears his heart in his sleeve- the life he’s had could make a good man turn bad; so please, please, please, let him get what he wants!
I find him quite endearing; he’s got an acid tongue on him, but he comes out with some absolute gold too - he’s like an Ancient Greek Morrissey! I can see him on the steps of the Agora, dishing out these pithy maxims with a quiff and a bunch of daffodils swaying from his back pocket; his flute player has an air of Johnny Marr about him.
The translator, Dorothea Wender, paints Hesiod so candidly in her introduction, and practically lambasts him for being an inferior bard to Homer. She laments his ineptness in articulating drama or employing anything resembling a literary device, as Homer undoubtedly could. She does have a point; the endless chronology of names, births and obscure deities is tedious to read. I was a little underwhelmed with Theogony overall; perhaps as I read it soon after Ovid.
In ‘Works and Days’ Hesiod’s attempts to morally edify his brother Perses through a collection of ethical maxims, experiential observations about farming and sailing, and general superstitions. Overall, it reads like a hymn extolling the benefits of prudence and hard work.
So far, so so. Little did I know, I was in for a treat with Theognis and his “Elegies”. This chapter alone ensured the book a four-star rating. In the foreword, Wender contends that all the poems of Theognis are in the elegiac metre, which she says was normally accompanied by the flute. According to Wender, elegiac couplets were considered by the Greeks to be appropriate for many themes: Love, laments for the dead, scurrilous personal abuse, philosophical observations, political propaganda, and riddles. This makes the following quotes all the more comical when you imagine him saying these words, then blowing a little flute to top it off...
“The heaviest burden for a talky man is silence; everywhere he goes he talks and is a bore, disliked by all. To sit with him at dinner is like being jailed.”
For some reason, I can’t help but picture Theognis as some kind of Ron Burgundy/Morrissey hybrid; playing his flute and dishing out verbal hell to his enemies. He doesn’t suffer fools lightly either; you wouldn’t want to be on a recipient of his vitriol, he comes out with some distinctly Machiavellian lines:
“Flatter your enemy; but when you get the upper hand, without pretext, strike back!”
And then again, acerbic pearls like this one:
“Good sir; if you possessed a brain as big as your stupidity, or we’re as wise as you are stupid now, you’d be admired by all, as much as you are now despised.”
Werder is a bit harsh on old Theognis though: “Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person”. She also claims he’s an elitist, preferring the company of his fellow aristocrats and haughtily looking down upon the lower classes. This isn’t necessarily how I interpreted the passages she is alluding to:
“The bad did not spring evil from the womb. Rather, in the company with evil men they learned low ways, vile words, and violence, and swallowed everything their low friends said”.
If by “low friends” he means morally low, how is he wrong to say that keeping bad company will harm one’s character? Seems perfectly cogent to me; you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas! And can she really disparage someone’s character that harshly when they offer such irreproachable epigrams as:
“bad men are often rich, and good men poor. But we would not exchange our virtue for their wealth. Our virtue always is secure, while money goes to this one, then to that.”
Or again, when addressing his lover Kurnos:
“A good man keeps his character in bad times and in good; but if God gives money and good life to a bad man the fool cannot hold back his evilness.”
So what’s Wender’s gripe? I’d hazard a guess, it was Theognis’ use of bigoted terminology when he figuratively describes poverty as a “slut”:
“Ah poverty, you slut! Why do you stay?”
(a little bit of flute)
“Why love me when I hate you? Please betray me for another man, and be his wife!”
(More flute)
“Why must you always share my wretched life?”
(Vigorous flute playing...)
Wender spills a good deal of ink in both introductions telling us of how misogynistic both Hesiod and Theognis are - which I won’t deny, they are - but it strikes me as a bit strange why a woman who finds an ancient poet so detestable, would commit to earnestly translating such works for her job. She could have picked other ancient poets to transcribe after all. I personally would eschew the poems of an Ancient Greek misandrist if her poetry offended me that much.
I’m going to go all out and say I sympathise with Theognis, he’s a bit of a jaded misanthrope who wears his heart in his sleeve- the life he’s had could make a good man turn bad; so please, please, please, let him get what he wants!
I find him quite endearing; he’s got an acid tongue on him, but he comes out with some absolute gold too - he’s like an Ancient Greek Morrissey! I can see him on the steps of the Agora, dishing out these pithy maxims with a quiff and a bunch of daffodils swaying from his back pocket; his flute player has an air of Johnny Marr about him.
October 4, 2022
More shagging than 50 shades of grey
June 6, 2021
This book includes 3 different poems and so I will be reviewing them separately here
Firstly Hesiod's Theogany: 3 Stars
This poem is entertaining, it deals with the creation myths associated with Greek Mythology and is therefor very dark. However, despite the interesting topic the author manages to make parts of it boring and repetitive whilst other parts reading like they were written by a 14 year old boy who only knew how to make something dramatic by repeating the word thunder a lot.
Hesiod's Works and Days: 5 Stars
Despite the fact that the same author that wrote Theogany is credited with works and days I agree with the translator Dorothea Wender that this can't be true unless they were written decades apart. In contrast this should have been boring as the topic is essentially how to be a good peasant. However, the author is amazing the verse is beautiful and some of the topics are hilarious from a modern view point, for example not showing your genitals to a fire after sex as it might offend a God and not pissing in a river for similar reasons.
Theognis Elegies: 4 Stars
These poems seem to have been written by multiple people but all of the poems are entertaining and well written. Again, the content is funny to the modern reader as it is essentially a nobleman complaining about his life and the sorts of people that you should keep company with.
Overall the book was great, however, Hesdiod's Theogany was a slog and the translator seems to agree.
Firstly Hesiod's Theogany: 3 Stars
This poem is entertaining, it deals with the creation myths associated with Greek Mythology and is therefor very dark. However, despite the interesting topic the author manages to make parts of it boring and repetitive whilst other parts reading like they were written by a 14 year old boy who only knew how to make something dramatic by repeating the word thunder a lot.
Hesiod's Works and Days: 5 Stars
Despite the fact that the same author that wrote Theogany is credited with works and days I agree with the translator Dorothea Wender that this can't be true unless they were written decades apart. In contrast this should have been boring as the topic is essentially how to be a good peasant. However, the author is amazing the verse is beautiful and some of the topics are hilarious from a modern view point, for example not showing your genitals to a fire after sex as it might offend a God and not pissing in a river for similar reasons.
Theognis Elegies: 4 Stars
These poems seem to have been written by multiple people but all of the poems are entertaining and well written. Again, the content is funny to the modern reader as it is essentially a nobleman complaining about his life and the sorts of people that you should keep company with.
Overall the book was great, however, Hesdiod's Theogany was a slog and the translator seems to agree.
May 30, 2022
This book consists of works by two ancient Greek poets: Hesiod and Theognis.
The first work by Hesiod is called Theogony. The second is his more famous work Works and Days.
Theogony is an origin story of the ancient Greek gods.
Works and Days offers advice on how to live a good life to his brother along with various mythological tales.
From Works and Days:
That man is best who reasons for himself,
Considering the future. Also good
Is he who takes another’s good advice.
But he who neither thinks himself nor learns
from others, is a failure as a man.
I bought this book in a used book store to read Hesiod. I had no interest in Theognis. I have never heard of him. I gave him a try but quit after a few pages.
The first work by Hesiod is called Theogony. The second is his more famous work Works and Days.
Theogony is an origin story of the ancient Greek gods.
Works and Days offers advice on how to live a good life to his brother along with various mythological tales.
From Works and Days:
That man is best who reasons for himself,
Considering the future. Also good
Is he who takes another’s good advice.
But he who neither thinks himself nor learns
from others, is a failure as a man.
I bought this book in a used book store to read Hesiod. I had no interest in Theognis. I have never heard of him. I gave him a try but quit after a few pages.
January 5, 2022
"He has no time for courts and public life
Who has not stored up one full year's supply
Of corn, Demeter's gift, got from the earth.
When you have grain piled high, you may dispute
And fight about the goods of other men."
Hesiod said stop buying avocado toast!!!!!
Who has not stored up one full year's supply
Of corn, Demeter's gift, got from the earth.
When you have grain piled high, you may dispute
And fight about the goods of other men."
Hesiod said stop buying avocado toast!!!!!
November 26, 2024
Hesiod is essential, but I wasn’t too fond of Theognis.
September 12, 2024
Historisch interessant maar daar blijft t dan ook bij. Heel leuk hoe de vertaler zo veel mogelijk benoemt hoe slecht Hesiodos ook in het Grieks is.
Theognis is vooral vet als je benieuwd bent naar de meningen en inzichten een oude, norse en zelfs voor de zesde eeuw voor christus al bijzonder aristocratische pederast
Theognis is vooral vet als je benieuwd bent naar de meningen en inzichten een oude, norse en zelfs voor de zesde eeuw voor christus al bijzonder aristocratische pederast
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May 29, 20252025: Theogony- ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
June 23, 2017
Classicist Dorothea Wender’s translation of Hesiod is spectacular. Even while she says his
“Theogony” is a bit boring and not written in the wonderful style of “Works and Days”, I think her talent as a translator makes this piece on a creation myth shine. Now, I’m a huge fan of mythology and the origins of various beings, so I would have liked the Theogony no matter what. But, Wender used her skill to make it enjoyable and not simply a seemingly unending onslaught of names.
When she turns her eye to Hesiod’s “Works and Days,” she is magnificent. Just reading the first stanza, I can immediately tell that this is a much stronger piece of poetry, as Wender stated in her introduction. Hesiod stressed the need to be prepared and work hard. I enjoyed his description of the five ages of man: Golden, Silver, Bronze, the demi-gods, and Iron (us). The demi-gods were the race of heroes who have great epics and stories written about them, including those who fought in the Trojan War.
Hesiod offers advice and guidance throughout. He sagely writes: “But he who neither thinks himself nor learns / From others, is a failure as a man” (p. 68, lines 96-97). Valid then, even more valid in our present times. His advice on farming is tied to astronomy, so that one can tell when to plant, harvest, etc. based on which planets and constellations are rising or setting, visible or not, in the sky. He tells sailors when to avoid voyages, saying “Gales of all winds rage when the Pleiades, / Pursued by violent Orion, plunge / Into the clouded sea” (p. 78, lines 619-621). He marries my love of astronomy and mythology with tidbits like this.
Turning to Theognis, I could have done without him. I didn’t like what he had to say, and it had nothing to do with the translation. To quote from Wender’s introduction to his Elegies, “Unfortunately, as his personality is revealed in the poems, Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bigoted, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person” (p. 92). I cannot help but agree with her.
Wender’s notes were wonderful and illuminating. I know she probably upset some stodgy white male classicists sitting in their cloistered rooms with her tone, but her skill and passion as a translator brought life to these words without changing the meaning of the original text. I enjoyed reading her comments, alternate translations and understandings about the text.
Overall, I’d give the Hesiod a 5, the content (not the translation) of Theognis’s Elegies a 1, the Notes a 5 and to Dorothea Wender, a 5+. Well done and well worth my time.
“Theogony” is a bit boring and not written in the wonderful style of “Works and Days”, I think her talent as a translator makes this piece on a creation myth shine. Now, I’m a huge fan of mythology and the origins of various beings, so I would have liked the Theogony no matter what. But, Wender used her skill to make it enjoyable and not simply a seemingly unending onslaught of names.
When she turns her eye to Hesiod’s “Works and Days,” she is magnificent. Just reading the first stanza, I can immediately tell that this is a much stronger piece of poetry, as Wender stated in her introduction. Hesiod stressed the need to be prepared and work hard. I enjoyed his description of the five ages of man: Golden, Silver, Bronze, the demi-gods, and Iron (us). The demi-gods were the race of heroes who have great epics and stories written about them, including those who fought in the Trojan War.
Hesiod offers advice and guidance throughout. He sagely writes: “But he who neither thinks himself nor learns / From others, is a failure as a man” (p. 68, lines 96-97). Valid then, even more valid in our present times. His advice on farming is tied to astronomy, so that one can tell when to plant, harvest, etc. based on which planets and constellations are rising or setting, visible or not, in the sky. He tells sailors when to avoid voyages, saying “Gales of all winds rage when the Pleiades, / Pursued by violent Orion, plunge / Into the clouded sea” (p. 78, lines 619-621). He marries my love of astronomy and mythology with tidbits like this.
Turning to Theognis, I could have done without him. I didn’t like what he had to say, and it had nothing to do with the translation. To quote from Wender’s introduction to his Elegies, “Unfortunately, as his personality is revealed in the poems, Theognis is not at all likeable. He seems to have been a savage, paranoid, bigoted, bitter, narrow, pompous, self-pitying person” (p. 92). I cannot help but agree with her.
Wender’s notes were wonderful and illuminating. I know she probably upset some stodgy white male classicists sitting in their cloistered rooms with her tone, but her skill and passion as a translator brought life to these words without changing the meaning of the original text. I enjoyed reading her comments, alternate translations and understandings about the text.
Overall, I’d give the Hesiod a 5, the content (not the translation) of Theognis’s Elegies a 1, the Notes a 5 and to Dorothea Wender, a 5+. Well done and well worth my time.
April 12, 2022
It's no small wonder why Hesiod is so overlooked when he lived and wrote after Homer. A comparison between the two is always bound to happen, they're both some of the oldest Greek writers whose texts are still extant and they both had a significant influence on Greek culture. Of the two bards, Hesiod will always come out as worse; he neither has the style nor insight into life that Homer seemed to have, nor does he have the same appeal because he lacks the narrative structure that Homer used.
Despite everything against Hesiod I still think his works are still worth reading, they grant insight into one account of the origin myth for the Greeks (Theogeny) that is enjoyable at times, and more interestingly give an ideal account of the morality and work ethic for a Greek peasant (Works and Days). Both texts provide something -- some measure of insight and aesthetic pleasure -- even if those rare occasions are often surrounded by dull descriptions or uneventful practices.
Despite everything against Hesiod I still think his works are still worth reading, they grant insight into one account of the origin myth for the Greeks (Theogeny) that is enjoyable at times, and more interestingly give an ideal account of the morality and work ethic for a Greek peasant (Works and Days). Both texts provide something -- some measure of insight and aesthetic pleasure -- even if those rare occasions are often surrounded by dull descriptions or uneventful practices.
June 18, 2015
While I enjoyed Theogony as a creation myth, the poetry of Hesiod and Theognis just didn't seem as well-crafted as other that of other Greek and Roman poets I've read. The poems or elegies of Theognis, for example, came across as lots of self-indulgent complaining, and while there isn't an inherent problem with this, other ancient poets such as Catullus are self-indulgent whingers in a more enjoyable and well-written way.
August 9, 2017
A miscellany of writings and fragments from the 8th and 6th centuries BCE. These pieces are of mixed quality, some quite poetic and others quite prosaic. They seem in part to include writings by other authors (Solon?). Worth reading for curiosity value.
August 31, 2025
Hated this when I first read it, I was completely wrong to disregard it, super interesting cosmology love the Greek conception of the primordial world as dark and amoral watched over by the cruel golden wings of Eros.
December 28, 2009
Good introduction and translation, works of fairly significant historical importance, enjoyment in erading them is marginal...
May 12, 2011
I'd already read Hesiod, at least Works & Days and the Theogony, but not Theognis and certainly not this translation. The reading was done in Springfield, Vermont, the book provided by my host.
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