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An Open Life: Joseph Campbell in Conversation with Michael Toms

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In the tradition of The Power of Myth , a conversation with Joseph Campbell that distills the mature wisdom and eclectic spiritual thinking of the world-renowned scholar and mythologist.

144 pages, paper

First published January 1, 1988

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About the author

Joseph Campbell

426 books6,185 followers
Joseph Campbell was an American author and teacher best known for his work in the field of comparative mythology. He was born in New York City in 1904, and from early childhood he became interested in mythology. He loved to read books about American Indian cultures, and frequently visited the American Museum of Natural History in New York, where he was fascinated by the museum's collection of totem poles.

Campbell was educated at Columbia University, where he specialized in medieval literature, and continued his studies at universities in Paris and Munich. While abroad he was influenced by the art of Pablo Picasso and Henri Matisse, the novels of James Joyce and Thomas Mann, and the psychological studies of Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung. These encounters led to Campbell's theory that all myths and epics are linked in the human psyche, and that they are cultural manifestations of the universal need to explain social, cosmological, and spiritual realities. 


After a period in California, where he encountered John Steinbeck and the biologist Ed Ricketts, he taught at the Canterbury School, and then, in 1934, joined the literature department at Sarah Lawrence College, a post he retained for many years. During the 40s and '50s, he helped Swami Nikhilananda to translate the Upanishads and The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. He also edited works by the German scholar Heinrich Zimmer on Indian art, myths, and philosophy. In 1944, with Henry Morton Robinson, Campbell published A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake. His first original work, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, came out in 1949 and was immediately well received; in time, it became acclaimed as a classic. In this study of the "myth of the hero," Campbell asserted that there is a single pattern of heroic journey and that all cultures share this essential pattern in their various heroic myths. In his book he also outlined the basic conditions, stages, and results of the archetypal hero's journey.


Throughout his life, he traveled extensively and wrote prolifically, authoring many books, including the four-volume series The Masks of God, Myths to Live By, The Inner Reaches of Outer Space and The Historical Atlas of World Mythology. Joseph Campbell died in 1987. In 1988, a series of television interviews with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth, introduced Campbell's views to millions of people.


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Displaying 1 - 30 of 39 reviews
Profile Image for Jim.
2,414 reviews798 followers
October 31, 2012
I have always found that reading Joseph Campbell on the subject of finding a personal mythology to see one through life to be refreshing and liberating. While this book is nowhere as well organized as Bill Moyers's Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth, it's still a fascinating read. Campbell is a great raconteur and can carry the interview by himself. Just a few examples:

THE DEVIL. "Our demons are our own limitations, which shut us off from the realization of the ubiquity of the spirit. And as each of these demons is conquered in a vision quest, the consciousness of the quester is enlarged, and more of the world is encompassed."

NIGHTMARES. ""When people have nightmares, it's principally because they have been repressing the biology and it comes up with a vengeance. The deity that is disregarded turns into a devil."

MEISTER ECKHART. "As he said in his sermon 'On Riddance,' the ultimate riddance, and the most difficult, is getting rid of your god to go to God. Wow! That's the big adventure, isn't it?"

RELIGION. "My favorite definition of religion is 'a misinterpretation of mythology.' And the misinterpretation consists precisely in attributing historical references to symbols which properly are spiritual in their reference. What a mythic image talks about is not something that happened somewhere or will happen somewhere at some time or other; it refers to what is now, and was yesterday, and will be tomorrow, and is forever."

Again and again, Campbell takes us away from the restrictions of "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" and makes us look at what it is to be a human anywhere in the world. He urges us to look around at what other people believe and how they succeed in finding themselves and freeing themselves from what William Blake called "mind forg'd manacles."

Campbell will, I think, be regarded as one of the great teachers of the twentieth century, even from an interview book such as this one, which is one of his minor works.


Profile Image for Asim Bakhshi.
Author 8 books339 followers
July 5, 2018
There are now years of hesitation in getting into Campbell's longer works; somehow I just end up exploring a page here and there, at times chapters, go back watching his audiovisual conversations and then spend my days and nights thinking about his ideas. It is like someone being unable to strike a balance between one's excitement and one's fear in his first bungee diving, or for that matter first glacier hike, railway or air journey.

In all these years of ideological wooing, he remains one of my favorite thinkers. He oscillates between Freud and Jung, takes sparingly from them, moves ahead of them, goes back and forth at times, never assertively formulaic like Freud, never too abstract in his individualism like Jung.

Sometimes I do remind myself that I haven't read any of his longer works from cover to cover! I think part of the reason is my personal approach to reading where culmination of a reading project necessarily means a break, a kind of emotional closure of sorts, a disconnect while assimilating the fragments of memories, not memories of ideas but memories of reading experience. I don't want closure with Campbell. He is like Jung in this aspect; you should bank on him if you get past that sexagenarian barrier; I want to keep wooing him till he prepares me for death, the final dream, or metadream of sorts.

These conversations are similar attempts at ideological wooing; they would prepare you to undertake some amazing journeys into the life of mind with him; and no preparation is enough if you really want to connect with the inner meaning of Campbell's philosophies of myth.
33 reviews2 followers
March 4, 2014
"And the whole idea of the Second Coming is thought to be a historical event, too. Well, at the end of the Thomas Gospel, the disciples ask, 'When will the kingdom come?' And Jesus answers, 'The kingdom will not come by expectation. The kingdom of the Father IS spread over the earth and men do not see it.' In other words, bring it about in your hearts. And that is precisely the sense of Nirvanic realization. This is it. All you have to do is see it. And the function of meditation leading to that is to dissociate you from your commitment to this body, which is afraid to die, so that you realize the eternal dimension is right here, now, everywhere. And suffering and joy, good and evil are functions of the apparitional situation as things seem, but the ultimate is transcendence. This is right in the gospels, when Jesus says, 'Judge not that you may not be judged' (Matthew 7:1) and 'Be as your father in heaven whose rain falls on the just and the unjust.' (paraphrase of Matthew 5: 45-48) But we, in our religions, have made a terrific point of ethical judgment. It's a fantastic distortion: historical and ethical references instead of the metaphysical. That doesn't mean that in your social life you shouldn't make ethical judgments, but they're not the mystery dimension of our potentials for experience.

(discrimination rather than judgement)

You're playing against people, and they're against you. Well, that's the game. It wouldn't be a tennis game if there weren't two sides of the net. But the umpire lets rain fall on both sides. And we function in the world in two senses: in one sense as the viewer, including ourselves in the field, and in the other sense as actor. The actor has to act in terms of pairs of opposites. And the viewer has to view.
There's a little verse from the Rig Veda that I'm very much attached to, of the tree of life and two birds- fast friends. One eats the fruit of the tree and the other watches. Those are two aspects of ourselves: we eat the fruit- we kill a life in order to eat, and we play in the world of action. But then in contemplation, as the meditative one, we are removed from that world and its destiny. Those are two positions: the general which looks at the duality of life; and the particular which involves participaiton- the sorrows of life. There's a Buddhist formula of the Bodhisattva for the one who has illumination but who determines to remain in the world: all life is sorrowful. So the Bodhisattva participates with joy in the sorrows of the world. This is the crucified one. The Crucifixion is not something that should not have happened; that's something that MUST happen. It's an important concept.

(This concept of 'God within,' is it common to ancient mythologies or did they always involve the Hero and God without?)

Well, its hard to know what people thought in periods that antedate the events of writing. You have to imagine on the basis of what you see. I would not be in a position to answer that question. The Navaho, for instance, have the idea of the fire that's in the sun being the fire in the heart, shining in the eyes. Both fires are one. That's what you get in the Egyptian idea of the dead person's becoming Osiris on the way to Osiris: to be one with that which he has been identical with all his life, though ignorant of the fact.

(A merging)"
"
Profile Image for flms23.
198 reviews
September 4, 2015
Before Campbell spoke with Bill Moyers in what would become the celebrated Power of Myth series, he engaged in decades-long conversations with Michael Toms, the founding host of New Dimensions Radio. Having read the Moyers and the Toms in rapid succession, I found that much of the same material is covered--follow your bliss, comparative mythology, myths as symbols and signposts to guide our lives, consciousness, etc.

What's interesting is how differently Campbell covers these topics. Some of the interviews with Toms take place well before the Moyers interviews.

I don't know if it's purposeful, but the Moyers pieces have a bit more pop culture woven into them, while the Toms talks are a bit more erudite, a bit more dense. An interesting difference I noticed between the two.

I'll relay one fascinating quote from the Toms that through me for a loop.

Toms asks Campbell about the differences between Europeans and Americans.

Campbell says, it's commonly discussed that we're so materialistic here in the states. And, we are, and we see that because we're so tied to our gadgets here.

Had he said that in 2015, it would have fit in with much of what goes on on the world today, but the date of the interview? 1972. When I heard Campbell say that, it made the hair stand up on my arms. How much has changed in the world in 43 years--and how little.
Profile Image for Jason.
6 reviews
April 5, 2016
This "book" was extremely interesting to me. It was really more of an interview transcript, but the ideas presented by Campbell and Toms, to a lesser degree, were very thought provoking. I'm fairly certain that most of these ideas have probably been presented in previous texts, but they were new to me, and presented in a very accessible, conversational way. The thoughts on the similarities between world religions and the underlying themes that stretch between them are very affirming to some of the beliefs I've long held but been unable to pinpoint. I highly recommend this short book to anyone interested in religious and literature studies.
Profile Image for Jane Mettee.
304 reviews7 followers
September 10, 2015
I love any thing Joseph Campbell! I thoroughly enjoyed reading this compilation of interviews done for Public Radio.
Profile Image for Zach.
344 reviews7 followers
Read
June 15, 2021
An Open Life is a book of delight. The freewheelin' nature of conversation allows Joseph Campbell to share insights and connections unique to this book. Toms and Campbell clearly have a joyous relationship, and this comes through in many different layers throughout the book.


This is a must have for any JC fan -- I can't believe I only just discovered it! 


Here are a few favorite quotes.


The tendency in our culture is to be more of this mathematical organization, instead of organic. And the interaction between the two is what keeps us civilized and harmonious human beings.


The symbols tell you something about the bringing forth of the gold of your own spirit.


By casting off the shell of the local, historical inflection, one comes to the elementary idea which is the path to one's own innermost heart. 


That's what hell is: the place of people who could not yield their ego system to allow the grace of transpersonal power to move them.


There's nothing right or wrong when you're on the path, but there is imprudent and prudent action.


Our demons are our own limitations, which shut us off from the realization of the ubiquity of the spirit. 


If you close your mind to the awakener, he may not come back again.


Our psyche is the cave with all the jewels in it, and it's the fact that we're not letting their energies move us that brings us up short.
Profile Image for Hella.
1,142 reviews50 followers
September 18, 2015
Erbarmelijk vertaald maar prachtig boekje, een compilatie van interviews waarin Campbell zijn visie op de moderne wereld en de plaats van de mythologie daarin uiteenzet. Ik heb er héél veel in onderstreept, en ga nu op zoek naar het Engelse origineel.

Update 180915: eindelijk het origineel ontvangen, wat een zaligheid.
Een paar citaten:
There's nothing like living when you're not living with a direction but just enjoying the glory of the moment. p15

Myths don't represent answers but are attempts to express insights. p23

There's a wonderful paper by Schopenhauer, called 'An Apparent Intention of the Fate of the Individual,' in which he points out that when you are at a certain age...and look back over your life, it seems to be almost as orderly as a composed novel. And just as in Dickens' novels, little accidental meetings and so forth turn out to be main features in the plot, so in your life. And what seem to have been mistakes at the time, turn out to be directive crises. And then he asks: 'Who wrote this novel?'
Life seems as though it were planned ... Schopenhauer finally asks the question: Can anything happen to you for which you're not ready? I look back now on certain things that at the time seemed to me to be real disasters, but the results turned out to be the structuring of a really great aspect of my life and career. So what can you say? p24

If you follow your bliss, you’ll have your bliss whether you have money or not. If you follow money, you may lose the money, and then you don’t have even that. The secure way is really the insecure way and the way in which the richness of the quest accumulates is the right way. p25

Those people who have the knowledge that the music must somehow be followed must stay with it. It may make a lonely life for you, but that is your life. p27

Do not become attached to your method, for when your consciousness changes, you will recognize that all the methods are intending the one goal. That is the song mythology sings. p63

If there's a way or path, it's someone else's. p73

Symbols are the vehicles of communication between conscious and unconscious systems. p79

What we lack, really, isn't science but poetry that reveals what the heart is ready to recognize. p102

Profile Image for Steve.
89 reviews2 followers
December 16, 2007
Somewhat similar to the Bill Moyers PBS special (and book) Power of Myth, this book consists of interviews between Michael Toms and Joseph Campbell. As such, we get to eavesdrop on a sparkling conversation that illuminates the role of myth in our lives. There's a lot of familiar ground to those who've read Campbell's work, but I like this book because it serves a convenient overview and provides a lot of interesting wisdom.
Profile Image for Nick.
17 reviews
January 18, 2016
A friend gave me the book and told me to read it over break; for not knowing anything about Joseph Campbell, the book was very insightful and a great read. It definitely peaked my interest in mythology and religion, more specifically where the two combine. Joseph Campbell's insights on life and philosophy are definitely worth noting down from the book as well!
Profile Image for George sato.
9 reviews
July 29, 2012
This book is about Campbells beliefs and thoughts. I waas impressed by his statement that life is a journey and follow your bliss. I found my bliss it is travel to the mainland. I hope I hit it big in Vegas.
Profile Image for Will.
71 reviews3 followers
January 31, 2016
The breeziest Campbell I've read. This is the only example I've found of him talking about the ways his scholarship has impacted his own life: what it has meant for him personally to "follow his bliss," how he understands marriage, how he views the role of religion in his own life.
12 reviews
July 17, 2008
"Marriage is not a love affair, it's an ordeal. It is a religious exercise, a sacrament, the grace of participating in another life."
Profile Image for drozda.
64 reviews10 followers
August 3, 2008
Great companion to Power of the Myth...Always on the studio book shelf to provide a quick boost when my 'being an artist' stamina flags.
88 reviews
February 20, 2012
Hard to go wrong with Joseph Campbell...a great starting point for those interested in some of his broader philosophies and perspectives. Felt too short though.
Profile Image for Lesley.
24 reviews2 followers
April 13, 2012
This was a wonderful look inside his mind.
Profile Image for Dennis Miller.
Author 19 books14 followers
January 7, 2013
Joseph Campbell is wonderful, wise and like Carl Jung, has a refreshing, universal view of who we are and where we are.
Profile Image for Lori.
11 reviews5 followers
June 23, 2012
I enjoyed the DVD much more than reading the interviews. I thought maybe I had missed a book of his, but no, these are just interviews in written form.
Profile Image for Jevelyn.
58 reviews2 followers
September 22, 2012
Best way to understand Mr.Campbell, and how our beliefs and myths cross time, continents, people, and cultures. The more we change or evolve the more we are the same
Profile Image for Reneesarah.
92 reviews8 followers
Read
February 22, 2013
This was a great book. Joseph Campbell had such a lively and engaged, compassionate mind. It is fully present here.
Profile Image for Brett Williams.
Author 2 books66 followers
August 15, 2020
This selection from many radio conversations between Joseph Campbell (1904-1987) and interviewer Michael Toms (1940-2013) started out with a bang. Having been away from Campbell’s work for so long it reminded me again of those ideas which so inspired me. Like his urging to “follow your bliss,” that vision one has for their life that is theirs alone, often derided by others. It was just this urging that gave me hope during those times when each and every day was another lesson in submission. When the hard charging life of achievement can be both satisfying and sterilizing, as Campbell says here, “The first function of mythology is to awaken and maintain in the individual a sense of wonder and participation in the mystery on this finally inscrutable universe.” And as an artist and/or intellect might be trapped in the grind of the common man’s paper chase or the acid bath of a caustic relationship, Campbell recalls T. S. Elliot’s poem The Waste Land. But the mythic adventure of Campbell’s famous “hero journey” noted here serves as a cue and a template; the metaphorical death of one life and birth of another.

Then, most surprising to come from Toms, the book took a jarring turn for me when he steered away from the universal psychological insights of mythology into those New Age chestnuts of Atlantis; that the Maya came from Atlantis and went to Egypt; and that a once great civilization, perhaps more advanced than modernity, somehow vanished without a trace. Campbell seemed irritated with this, admonishing Toms with the facts of archeology, the earth science of ocean currents and geology, and the sad reality that zero evidence for such things exists. Toms also insufficiently advises the reader that almost everything Campbell says is metaphor. Not knowing this can make Campbell sound as New Age as the topics Toms seemed to hope Campbell would validate (unless Toms did that precisely to dismiss them).

The book returned to Campbell’s encyclopedic knowledge and connections within it, ending with a too-short crescendo on Campbell’s life. An invitation to read A Fire in the Mind: The Life of Joseph Campbell. Mostly a good book.
Profile Image for Grete Howland.
158 reviews
February 24, 2020
Campbell's words (both written and spoken, across a number of texts) have meant so much to me as I move away from the rigid Christianity in which I was raised into the spaces that lie beyond, both intellectually and spiritually. I was happy to encounter a number of instances of that kind of impact and inspiration in this book, which is a collection of transcriptions of interviews he did with Michael Toms in the '70s and '80s.

That said, I also noticed more than ever (which, of course I did; I know more now than I have in the past) how much his thoughts and perspective are in need of critique--feminist critique, critical race theories, class critiques, and so on. For example, he mentions the "heroism" of Cortez in his actions in the Americas. Now, Campbell might just be talking about aspects of the the literal "hero" 'role', per hero stories, that Cortez takes on; but also, "heroism" has connotations, and while Campbell does acknowledge the atrocities committed by Cortez and his men, he also doesn't speak against or in criticism of the connotations that his words attach to the man. I would like to think that he would welcome such critique, given the appreciation and reverence he otherwise seems to have for world views outside of his own norm, but who knows.

All in all, there was as much content that I wanted to push back on as content that resonated. But Campbell remains an important thinker for me, and so I'll hold on to this text and probably return to it for further reflection in the future.
64 reviews
January 8, 2025
This was a very enlightening read as all of Joseph Campbell's works are. Over the course of maybe 50-60 questions from an interviewer Campbell reiterates his perspective on recurring themes in mythology across many cultures, focusing on figures from major religions and embellishing his points with characters and stories from many other traditions. There are also interesting sections on the movement of myths and aspects of culture across the continents, and Campbell's views on modern religion, where they stray from what's been the main purposes of religion benefiting mankind, and how Buddhism is often misunderstood by many modern religious followers. I took 1 star off for the scattered order of the book, in order to seek out particular sections you'll have to scan through many interview questions.
Profile Image for Pam.
545 reviews
May 17, 2021
Joseph Campbell, through a series of interviews with Michael Toms, shares his basic concepts on life, religions and myth. This not a new book. It was written more than 30 years ago. Consequently, it was interesting to read in light of current events, especially his observations about our relationship with nature, even before the widespread focus on climate change and what we are doing to the physical world. He also is so on target in his observations about organized religion.
Profile Image for Sa Schmidt.
79 reviews4 followers
April 7, 2024
He has a great understanding of many cultures and their mythologies. I find him a great read and source to the subject. However, I would like to read more about his knowledge without it being a conversation and question and answer session narrative book. And this is set like another interview.

I will read more of his work.
Profile Image for Lily O'Donnell.
66 reviews4 followers
January 2, 2023
V god discussion of the importance of myth and staying true to yourself. The path for transcendance and living up to your potential is the true challenge of a life worth living. Needed this book in my life at the time I read it.
Profile Image for Dharit.
20 reviews
December 19, 2025
Chapter 3 was insane. Sometimes it got pretty abstract, but the themes were really good. Much more digestible and accessible than Hero With a Thousand Faces, though maybe that's because I've read that before. I think you could generally get the themes of Hero by reading this instead.
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