What do you think?
Rate this book
From Time Immemorial: The Origins of the Arab-Jewish Conflict over Palestine
This monumental and fascinating book, the product of seven years of original research, will forever change the terms of the debate about the conflicting claims of the Arabs and the Jews in the Middle East. The weight of the comprehensive evidence found and brilliantly analyzed by historian and journalist Joan Peters answers many crucial questions, among Why are the Arab refugees from Israel seen in a different light from all the other, far more numerous peoples who were displaced after World War II? Why, indeed, are they seen differently from the Jewish refugees who were forced, in 1948 and after, to leave the Arab countries to find a haven in Israel? Who, in fact, are the Arabs who were living within the borders of present-day Israel, and where did they come from? Joan Peters's highly readable and moving development of the answers to these and related questions will appear startling, even to those on both sides of the argument who have considered themselves to be in command of the facts. On the basis of a definitive weight of hitherto unexamined population and other historical data, much of it buried in untouched archives, Peters demonstrates that Jews did not displace Arabs in Palestine-just the Arabs displaced Jews; that a hidden but major Arab migration and immigration took place into areas settled by Jews in pre-Israel Palestine; that a substantial number of the Arab refugees called Palestinians in reality had foreign roots; that for every Arab refugee who left Israel in 1948, there was a Jewish refugee who fled or was expelled from his Arab birthplace at the same time-today's much discussed Sephardic majority in Israel is in fact composed mainly of these Arab-born Jewish refugees or their offspring; that Britain, the Mandatory power, winked at and even encouraged Arab immigration into Palestine between the two World Wars; that by disguising the Arab immigrants as "indigenous native Palestinian Arabs," the British justified their restrictions on Jewish immigration and settlement, dooming masses of European Jews to destruction in the Nazi camps. Joan Peters also unfolds a historical record to shatter the widely held belief that Arabs and Jews harmoniously coexisted for centuries in the Arab world-the fact is that the Jews, along with other non-Muslims, were second-class citizens, oppressed in the Muslim world for more than a millennium. And this continuing prejudicial tradition of hostility underlies, as well, every Arab action toward the state of Israel. In addition to her pioneering archival researches, Joan Peters has frequently traveled in the Middle East, conducting numerous interviews and gathering the personal observations of the first-rate reporter she is. The result is a book that has already had a major impact on policy discussions of one of the most vital and intractable of the world's problems, shrouded until now in a fog of misinformation and ignorance. Distributed exclusively by Jonathan David Publishers.
622 pages, Paperback
First published April 1, 1984
38 people are currently reading
936 people want to read
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 54 reviews
October 16, 2012
This book was exposed as a fraud years ago by Norman Finkelstein. It has only marginal value for the colossal chutzpah of the author and perhaps its place in the history of Western fabrications and deception regarding the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
July 16, 2023
The enemies of truth and of human rights have slammed this book as 'worhtless' simply because it exposes their lies against Israel and her people.
I therefore point out some of the facts in this book that are highlighted (anyone who denies these facts is a liar , whose agenda is another holocaust of the Israeli people).
The term "Palestinian" is itself a masterful twisting of history. To portray themselves as indigenous, Arab settlers adopted the name of an ancient Mediterranean tribe, the Philistines ("Invaders" in Hebrew), who had died out over 2500 years ago. There is no connection between this tribe and modern day Arabs. The Romans, in order to conceal their shame and anger with rebellious regions, changed the references to Judea and Samaria by naming them Palestine. Most of Arabs had settled in Palestine after Jews started developing agriculture and industries approximately 100 year ago.
1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., almost two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Since 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had a dominion over the land for at least 1,000 years as well as a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
3. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
4. King David made the city of Jerusalem his capital, Mohammed had never been to Jerusalem.
5. For 3000 years, Jerusalem has been known to be the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. When the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital and Arab leaders did not specifically come to visit there.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach (Jewish Holy Scriptures) . Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran.
7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem wherever in the world they may be. Muslims pray facing Mecca (often with their backs toward Jerusalem).
8. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of the holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment to the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.)
9. In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine and described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. It is a silent and mournful expanse. We never saw a human."
10. In 1882 census figures of the Ottoman Empire, it was recorded that in the entire land of Israel, there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.
11. A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, estimated that the total population of Jerusalem was 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
12. After Zionist Jews came, drained the swamps, and made the deserts blossom Arabs followed them. They came for jobs, for prosperity and for freedom. Arabs arrived in large numbers.
13. In 1922, during the illegal separation of Transjordan, Jews were forbidden to settle on 77% of the disputed territory, while Arab settlements went unrestricted by British.
14. Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the following idea "All the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be settled amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come and live in Palestine."
15. Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not established until 1913? Lebanon was not established until 1920. Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932 and Syria until 1941. The borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and those of Kuwait in 1961. Any of the aforementioned nations that say that Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own right of existence. They did not exist as fully-fledged countries, but were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to the Arabs without any form of population transfer.
16. In 1947, the Jewish state settled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. This was accepted gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.
17. In 1948, the Arabs were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.
18. Jewish citizens of Arab countries had been forced to flee from Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
19. The number of Arabs who left Israel in 1948 was 470,000 (this figure was later inflated after UN offered them free help). The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
20. From 1948 to 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated. Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
21. Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people only in 1967, after Israel captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
22. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab- Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that have never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees from all over were completely absorbed into the land of Israel.
23. Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.
24. There is only one Jewish state. There are 54 Muslim countries including 22 Arab nations.
25. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.
26. Pan-Arabism or the idea of an Arab Caliphate declares that all land that supposedly to belonged to Arabs, must be returned to Arabs.
Merged review:
The enemies of truth and of human rights have slammed this book as 'worhtless' simply because it exposes their lies against Israel and her people.
I therefore point out some of the facts in this book that are highlighted (anyone who denies these facts is a liar , whose agenda is another Holocaust of the Israeli people).
1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., almost two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Since 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had a dominion over the land for at least 1,000 years as well as a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
3. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
4. King David made the city of Jerusalem his capital, Mohammed had never been to Jerusalem.
5. For 3000 years, Jerusalem has been known to be the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. When the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital and Arab leaders did not specifically come to visit there.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach (Jewish Holy Scriptures) . Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran.
7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem wherever in the world they may be. Muslims pray facing Mecca (often with their backs toward Jerusalem).
8. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of the holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment to the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.)
9. In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine and described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. It is a silent and mournful expanse. We never saw a human."
10. In 1882 census figures of the Ottoman Empire, it was recorded that in the entire land of Israel, there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.
11. A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, estimated that the total population of Jerusalem was 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
12. After Zionist Jews came, drained the swamps, and made the deserts blossom Arabs followed them. They came for jobs, for prosperity and for freedom. Arabs arrived in large numbers.
13. In 1922, during the illegal separation of Transjordan, Jews were forbidden to settle on 77% of the disputed territory, while Arab settlements went unrestricted by British.
14. Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the following idea "All the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be settled amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come and live in Palestine."
15. Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not established until 1913? Lebanon was not established until 1920. Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932 and Syria until 1941. The borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and those of Kuwait in 1961. Any of the aforementioned nations that say that Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own right of existence. They did not exist as fully-fledged countries, but were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to the Arabs without any form of population transfer.
16. In 1947, the Jewish state settled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. This was accepted gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.
17. In 1948, the Arabs were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.
18. Jewish citizens of Arab countries had been forced to flee from Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
19. The number of Arabs who left Israel in 1948 was 470,000 (this figure was later inflated after UN offered them free help). The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
20. From 1948 to 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated. Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
21. Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people only in 1967, after Israel captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
22. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab- Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that have never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees from all over were completely absorbed into the land of Israel.
23. Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.
24. There is only one Jewish state. There are 54 Muslim countries including 22 Arab nations.
25. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.
26. Pan-Arabism or the idea of an Arab Caliphate declares that all land that supposedly to belonged to Arabs, must be returned to Arabs.
I therefore point out some of the facts in this book that are highlighted (anyone who denies these facts is a liar , whose agenda is another holocaust of the Israeli people).
The term "Palestinian" is itself a masterful twisting of history. To portray themselves as indigenous, Arab settlers adopted the name of an ancient Mediterranean tribe, the Philistines ("Invaders" in Hebrew), who had died out over 2500 years ago. There is no connection between this tribe and modern day Arabs. The Romans, in order to conceal their shame and anger with rebellious regions, changed the references to Judea and Samaria by naming them Palestine. Most of Arabs had settled in Palestine after Jews started developing agriculture and industries approximately 100 year ago.
1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., almost two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Since 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had a dominion over the land for at least 1,000 years as well as a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
3. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
4. King David made the city of Jerusalem his capital, Mohammed had never been to Jerusalem.
5. For 3000 years, Jerusalem has been known to be the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. When the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital and Arab leaders did not specifically come to visit there.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach (Jewish Holy Scriptures) . Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran.
7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem wherever in the world they may be. Muslims pray facing Mecca (often with their backs toward Jerusalem).
8. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of the holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment to the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.)
9. In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine and described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. It is a silent and mournful expanse. We never saw a human."
10. In 1882 census figures of the Ottoman Empire, it was recorded that in the entire land of Israel, there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.
11. A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, estimated that the total population of Jerusalem was 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
12. After Zionist Jews came, drained the swamps, and made the deserts blossom Arabs followed them. They came for jobs, for prosperity and for freedom. Arabs arrived in large numbers.
13. In 1922, during the illegal separation of Transjordan, Jews were forbidden to settle on 77% of the disputed territory, while Arab settlements went unrestricted by British.
14. Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the following idea "All the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be settled amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come and live in Palestine."
15. Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not established until 1913? Lebanon was not established until 1920. Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932 and Syria until 1941. The borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and those of Kuwait in 1961. Any of the aforementioned nations that say that Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own right of existence. They did not exist as fully-fledged countries, but were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to the Arabs without any form of population transfer.
16. In 1947, the Jewish state settled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. This was accepted gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.
17. In 1948, the Arabs were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.
18. Jewish citizens of Arab countries had been forced to flee from Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
19. The number of Arabs who left Israel in 1948 was 470,000 (this figure was later inflated after UN offered them free help). The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
20. From 1948 to 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated. Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
21. Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people only in 1967, after Israel captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
22. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab- Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that have never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees from all over were completely absorbed into the land of Israel.
23. Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.
24. There is only one Jewish state. There are 54 Muslim countries including 22 Arab nations.
25. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.
26. Pan-Arabism or the idea of an Arab Caliphate declares that all land that supposedly to belonged to Arabs, must be returned to Arabs.
Merged review:
The enemies of truth and of human rights have slammed this book as 'worhtless' simply because it exposes their lies against Israel and her people.
I therefore point out some of the facts in this book that are highlighted (anyone who denies these facts is a liar , whose agenda is another Holocaust of the Israeli people).
1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., almost two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Since 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had a dominion over the land for at least 1,000 years as well as a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
3. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
4. King David made the city of Jerusalem his capital, Mohammed had never been to Jerusalem.
5. For 3000 years, Jerusalem has been known to be the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. When the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital and Arab leaders did not specifically come to visit there.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach (Jewish Holy Scriptures) . Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran.
7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem wherever in the world they may be. Muslims pray facing Mecca (often with their backs toward Jerusalem).
8. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of the holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment to the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.)
9. In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine and described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. It is a silent and mournful expanse. We never saw a human."
10. In 1882 census figures of the Ottoman Empire, it was recorded that in the entire land of Israel, there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.
11. A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, estimated that the total population of Jerusalem was 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
12. After Zionist Jews came, drained the swamps, and made the deserts blossom Arabs followed them. They came for jobs, for prosperity and for freedom. Arabs arrived in large numbers.
13. In 1922, during the illegal separation of Transjordan, Jews were forbidden to settle on 77% of the disputed territory, while Arab settlements went unrestricted by British.
14. Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the following idea "All the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be settled amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come and live in Palestine."
15. Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not established until 1913? Lebanon was not established until 1920. Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932 and Syria until 1941. The borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and those of Kuwait in 1961. Any of the aforementioned nations that say that Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own right of existence. They did not exist as fully-fledged countries, but were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to the Arabs without any form of population transfer.
16. In 1947, the Jewish state settled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. This was accepted gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.
17. In 1948, the Arabs were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.
18. Jewish citizens of Arab countries had been forced to flee from Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
19. The number of Arabs who left Israel in 1948 was 470,000 (this figure was later inflated after UN offered them free help). The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
20. From 1948 to 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated. Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
21. Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people only in 1967, after Israel captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
22. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab- Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that have never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees from all over were completely absorbed into the land of Israel.
23. Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.
24. There is only one Jewish state. There are 54 Muslim countries including 22 Arab nations.
25. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.
26. Pan-Arabism or the idea of an Arab Caliphate declares that all land that supposedly to belonged to Arabs, must be returned to Arabs.
April 10, 2016
Peters' book is not history, and Peters is not a trained historian, but a cherry-picking propagandist. This is nothing more than a pseudo-historical fraud which amounts to a justification for the ethnic-cleansing of Palestine by the government of Israel.
May 27, 2011
I'll preface this by dispelling the myth that this book is a 'hoax'. [Brings to mind Mark Twain's quote: "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."] This book is not a hoax. If you follow the tiny circle of people who try to perpetuate that little propaganda tagline (Chomsky, Finkelstein and cronies), they all quote each other. I research this in my graduate work, and when I saw how it all loops back around to the same group, I actually laughed out loud. Funny how easily people fall for propaganda that fits their innate biases...doesn't help peace though.
One of the largest single compilations of research on the subject, with over 1,800 citations, hundreds of primary-source government documents and first-hand testimonies from the British Mandate period, many of which are freely available for public access. (**This is why the propaganda screamers are in such a tizzy - because the data is so damn strong.**)
Ms. Peters served as a Middle East expert during the Carter administration, and now serves as a trustee for The National Committee on American Foreign Policy's Executive Committee. She originally began this project with the intention of proving the legitamacy of Palestinian claims...what she found through her painstaking research was that the Brits allowed a flood of Arabs onto the land in the brief Mandate Period. Her association with Jimmy Carter undoubtedly gave her deeper access to archival WWI documents, much of it from Great Britain - a nation that was most definitely NOT pro-Israel (remember that they kicked Jews off the land east of the Jordan River - 80% of Palestine at the time - and gave it to the Arabs, banning Jewish settlement there. Today that nascent nation is named Jordan, shortened from the original Trans-Jordan. And it's STILL a law in Jordan that only Jews can't own land there. Hear that, CNN??)
This compilation proved to be a ground-breaking achievement in terms of the sheer volume and quality of facts that were uncovered. It is widely-acknowledged and accepted by Middle East scholars seeking to understand the full picture, and is refuted by a handful of people whose personal agendas are negatively impacted by its existence. There are probably people out there who wish they could burn every exisiting copy of this book along with the thousands of documents it references.
This book is a must for any serious scholar on the subject.
One of the largest single compilations of research on the subject, with over 1,800 citations, hundreds of primary-source government documents and first-hand testimonies from the British Mandate period, many of which are freely available for public access. (**This is why the propaganda screamers are in such a tizzy - because the data is so damn strong.**)
Ms. Peters served as a Middle East expert during the Carter administration, and now serves as a trustee for The National Committee on American Foreign Policy's Executive Committee. She originally began this project with the intention of proving the legitamacy of Palestinian claims...what she found through her painstaking research was that the Brits allowed a flood of Arabs onto the land in the brief Mandate Period. Her association with Jimmy Carter undoubtedly gave her deeper access to archival WWI documents, much of it from Great Britain - a nation that was most definitely NOT pro-Israel (remember that they kicked Jews off the land east of the Jordan River - 80% of Palestine at the time - and gave it to the Arabs, banning Jewish settlement there. Today that nascent nation is named Jordan, shortened from the original Trans-Jordan. And it's STILL a law in Jordan that only Jews can't own land there. Hear that, CNN??)
This compilation proved to be a ground-breaking achievement in terms of the sheer volume and quality of facts that were uncovered. It is widely-acknowledged and accepted by Middle East scholars seeking to understand the full picture, and is refuted by a handful of people whose personal agendas are negatively impacted by its existence. There are probably people out there who wish they could burn every exisiting copy of this book along with the thousands of documents it references.
This book is a must for any serious scholar on the subject.
May 8, 2011
This is a intensely fact packed tome, it took me over a month to just read through.
I have now a much better idea of the real history of the region which has been drowned out by a tsunami of anti-Israel propaganda.
I have now a much better idea of the real history of the region which has been drowned out by a tsunami of anti-Israel propaganda.
May 5, 2011
I've noticed (so have several other readers) that Goodreads has deleted several relevant comments regarding this book. There were several comments under Bettie's review below (http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...) that contained facts relevant to discussion of this book and the topic. I read them the other day, and went back on today to share with my roommate, and they're gone! (???) The comments were written by a grad student on the subject, were well-articulated, and contained zero profanity. In the meantime, Goodreads has consistently left a comment in the top spot that claims this book is a hoax. This is blatantly incorrect and misleading to readers. Shame on you, Goodreads. Karma karma.
It's sad that Goodreads is actually deleting people's comments on this, but leaving those who claim the book is a hoax. The people claiming this did not even read the book (so how does that add to the discussion?). No one has offered one example of what they feel to be a hoax (Is it the one of the hundreds of intra-governmental correspondences from the British Mandate? The maps of Sir Martin Gilbert? The personal interviews with frightened victims living in persecution too scared to use their real names for fear of Muslim retaliation? Or is the UN Session minutes publically available through Freedom of Information?) Hmmmm...no one seems to offer any specific citation that they have a problem with. Like a big temper tantrum, these people seem to hurl the book away and scream "Hoax" without any further rationality or reasoning...perhaps in large part, because Goodreads doesn't require it.
Most of the data cited here is cited by hundreds of other books. People have their panties in a knot over it because Ms. Peters (while working under Jimmy Carter of all people) set out to write a book validating the Palestinian claim to the land...and lo and behold, her research (to her surprise too) was not able to validate most of their claims, and revealed instead, that the British allowed unmitigated illegal Arab immigration to the land while simultaneously blocking Jews from doing the same (even children were sent back to death camps and burned). When Palestinians claimed citizenship, the UN set up a special (and to this day unprecedented) committee just for them. All they needed was to have lived on the land for 2 years and they were declared "refugees". All of this is documented in British sources - the Brits were neutral at best - they abstained from voting Israel to become a state in the 1947 vote, but they did stand idly by while Arabs massacred those pesky Jewish natives, like in Hebron. I guess if you get a population's numbers down to a small enough number, they just don't matter anymore...isn't that right?
So what's the deal with deleting legitimate comments, Goodreads? Or did we just all learn the political opinion of those in charge of filtering there? :)
It's sad that Goodreads is actually deleting people's comments on this, but leaving those who claim the book is a hoax. The people claiming this did not even read the book (so how does that add to the discussion?). No one has offered one example of what they feel to be a hoax (Is it the one of the hundreds of intra-governmental correspondences from the British Mandate? The maps of Sir Martin Gilbert? The personal interviews with frightened victims living in persecution too scared to use their real names for fear of Muslim retaliation? Or is the UN Session minutes publically available through Freedom of Information?) Hmmmm...no one seems to offer any specific citation that they have a problem with. Like a big temper tantrum, these people seem to hurl the book away and scream "Hoax" without any further rationality or reasoning...perhaps in large part, because Goodreads doesn't require it.
Most of the data cited here is cited by hundreds of other books. People have their panties in a knot over it because Ms. Peters (while working under Jimmy Carter of all people) set out to write a book validating the Palestinian claim to the land...and lo and behold, her research (to her surprise too) was not able to validate most of their claims, and revealed instead, that the British allowed unmitigated illegal Arab immigration to the land while simultaneously blocking Jews from doing the same (even children were sent back to death camps and burned). When Palestinians claimed citizenship, the UN set up a special (and to this day unprecedented) committee just for them. All they needed was to have lived on the land for 2 years and they were declared "refugees". All of this is documented in British sources - the Brits were neutral at best - they abstained from voting Israel to become a state in the 1947 vote, but they did stand idly by while Arabs massacred those pesky Jewish natives, like in Hebron. I guess if you get a population's numbers down to a small enough number, they just don't matter anymore...isn't that right?
So what's the deal with deleting legitimate comments, Goodreads? Or did we just all learn the political opinion of those in charge of filtering there? :)
May 17, 2011
People who think that Norman Finkelstein has "disproved" this book have not read it.
It is written from a perspective from someone who had a very one sides view and through 7 years of her own research that view changed.
Is the research perfect and infalible? No, since the book was written more documents have been declassified, more information has come to light, but it IS well researched for it's time.
Is it biased? No, it is an honest account from someone who spent 7 years researching trying to get a truthful account of the history. Those who call it biased are those who refuse to see anything right of Chomsky as unbiased.
I got this as an audiobook and as a hardcover.
It is written from a perspective from someone who had a very one sides view and through 7 years of her own research that view changed.
Is the research perfect and infalible? No, since the book was written more documents have been declassified, more information has come to light, but it IS well researched for it's time.
Is it biased? No, it is an honest account from someone who spent 7 years researching trying to get a truthful account of the history. Those who call it biased are those who refuse to see anything right of Chomsky as unbiased.
I got this as an audiobook and as a hardcover.
May 2, 2010
The best book I have ever come across regarding the origins and politics, on an international level, of the conflict. The author, a journalist, set out to investigate the issue with a definite agenda and perspective in mind, by her own admission. What she discovered startled her, and caused her to reevaluate her positions.
August 27, 2019
One star simply because it is a misleading rasict book full with misinformation
January 6, 2008
One of the most informative books I have ever read, it clears up a great deal of the propaganda and false information that exists. a 10
May 4, 2020
Total rubbish. Zionist bullshit.
April 3, 2008
This book is by far the most objective view of WTF is going on over there wrt the Isrealis and the band of squatters / former citizens of the Turkish suzerain. Call me biased.
January 23, 2023
Why would you trust Joan Peters who is a college drop out? I am and most of this book's readers are more educated than this bigot. This book have been reviewed (even by Israeli scholars) who acknowledged it as "a shabby performance by an ignorant woman".
You believe it, simply because it fits your prejudice. Are you really convinced that the whole middle east was inhabited with Arabs, but fortunately Palestine was empty from native heterogenous nations who have been there since forever, and PALESTINE was waiting for these Israeli/killers to inhabit it??
I am glad prominent magazines and journals gave this book reviews that are bad enough to throw it in garbage heap of history.
You believe it, simply because it fits your prejudice. Are you really convinced that the whole middle east was inhabited with Arabs, but fortunately Palestine was empty from native heterogenous nations who have been there since forever, and PALESTINE was waiting for these Israeli/killers to inhabit it??
I am glad prominent magazines and journals gave this book reviews that are bad enough to throw it in garbage heap of history.
January 18, 2020
So joan peters dropped out of a mediocre college and people pay attention to her? Finklestein has a ph.d from Princeton, but you pathetic americans call him a fraud? oh the disappointment I feel in my own nation :/
June 14, 2012
These is a heavy read, but a must read for anyone who wants to understand the history of the region. The fools who claim this is a hoax are they same fools who deny that the Jewish people existed in the land of Israel and like that anti Semitic "journalist" whoa was forced to be put out to pasture, believe that the Jewish homeland is Poland.
April 11, 2018
H:\non-fiction
Read by Mary Woods.
This is rather weighted to the one side, under cover of 'scholarly' research
Read by Mary Woods.
This is rather weighted to the one side, under cover of 'scholarly' research
March 4, 2010
**The author set out to create a sound argument on behalf of the Palestinian Arabs and came out with a strong defense for Israel. She realized that huge portions of history had been ignored, forgotten, and deleted. And here is all is...
A very good book, but as a resource. It's a dense read, packed with information, inundated with facts, almost too much so. And she reiterates her points too often, which makes it a bit tedious to get through. However, her theses drive home very serious, important points.
Some of the information has since been contested by scholars, though I'm not sure which portions.
In any event, I believe it is a necessary read for anyone looking to better understand the current crisis in Israel.
A very good book, but as a resource. It's a dense read, packed with information, inundated with facts, almost too much so. And she reiterates her points too often, which makes it a bit tedious to get through. However, her theses drive home very serious, important points.
Some of the information has since been contested by scholars, though I'm not sure which portions.
In any event, I believe it is a necessary read for anyone looking to better understand the current crisis in Israel.
September 1, 2012
Skimmed through it some time back. Want to actually read through it. As much of what is put forth today is very one sided and based on false presentation within the liberal media. A convert to Christianity from Islam, from the Terrosit organization Hamas. Says nearly the same as the book to be true.
Want to read
May 22, 2009Read it 10 years ago. Re-reading it soon. Meticulously covers the history and background of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
November 9, 2023
This is a fraud !!! Don’t read this
There are better books out there that tell you what actually happened in Palestine.
There are better books out there that tell you what actually happened in Palestine.
September 6, 2019
من الزمن السحيق: أصول الصراع العربي-اليهودي على فلسطين
هل سمعت عن قلب الحقائق والتلاعب بها؟ هذا الكتاب هو مصداق لذلك. الصحفية الأمريكية جون بيتيرز والتي نشرت هذا الكتاب في ثمانينات القرن الماضي تدعي أن معظم الخبراء والمتخصصين في موضوع تاريخ فلسطين مخطؤون وأن ما اكتشفته هي يمكن أن يغير نظرتنا بشكل كامل للصراع. فما الذي اكتشفته؟
إن حدود الانتداب البريطاني على فلسطين ليست هي الحدود المعروفة لفلسطين، بل تشمل كل من فلسطين والأردن، أو فلسطين الشرقية والغربية كما تطلق عليها الكاتبة، والخريطة الغريبة على غلاف الكتاب هي خريطة فلسطين الكاملة - أي الأردن وفلسطين. ��العرب قد حصلوا على دولة عربية هي إمارة شرق الأردن في ١٩٢١ والتي اقتطعت من حدود الانتداب البريطاني على فلسطين، وتشكل مساحتها أكثر من ثلاثة أرباع مساحة الانتداب. إذًا حسب الكاتبة فإن اليهود الذي وعدوا بوطن قومي في فلسطين -وعد بلفور والانتداب من قبل عصبة الأمم- قد خسروا أكثر من ثلاثة أرباع الأرض عندما قررت بريطانيا تأسيس إمارة شرق الأردن، أو فلسطين الشرقية كما تشير لها الكاتبة.
النقطة الثانية هي حول التواجد السكاني، حيث تزعم الكاتبة أن فلسطين كانت ارضًا قاحلة وغير مسكونة إلا بعدد قليل من السكان، وأن الهجرات اليهودية التي بدأت في نهاية القرن الت��سع عشر هي التي أسهمت في ازدهار المنطقة اقتصاديًا وبالتالي جذبت هجرة العرب من سوريا ولبنان ومصر وغيرها إليها. فاليهود أصبحوا هم الأساس، أما العرب فهم المهاجرون!
وعن أحداث تهجير الفلسطينيين في ١٩٤٧-١٩٤٨، فإن الكاتبة تقول أن ما حدث هو بسبب طلب المقاتلين العرب من الفلسطينيين الهجرة لفسح المجال لهم للقضاء على اليهود بالإضافة للهلع الذي حصل نتيجة التهويل في حجم الجرائم، فلم تكن هناك سياسة يهودية لطردهم، بل بالعكس طلب يهود حيفا من العرب البقاء. وعمومًا ما حصل هو تبادل للسكان، فاليهود العرب الذين كانوا يعانون كافة أصناف العذابات والتضييق والتمييز تم طردهم من البلاد العربية كالعراق واليمن والمغرب ومصر ولجؤوا لاسرائيل، وهذا لا يختلف عن عمليات تبادل السكان التي حدثت بين تركيا واليونان، أو بين الهند وباكستان.
أما أزمة اللاجئين الفلسطينيين، فهي أزمة مفتعلة، حيث أنه وعلى عكس اليهود العرب الذين استقبلتهم إسرائيل بالأحضان وقامت بتجنيسهم وإعطائهم كل حقوق المواطنة، فإن اللاجئين العرب في كافة الدول العربية ما عدا الأردن لم يتم توطينهم، بل أصبحوا لاجئين للأبد، وهي تعتبرهم ضحايا للسياسات العربية التي لا تهدف لمساعدتهم، بل لاستخدامهم سياسيًا كورقة لتدمير اسرائيل عن طريق الزيادة السكانية بعد أن عجزوا عن ذلك بالحرب.
هل تبدو هذه المزاعم غير معقولة أو مثيرة للضحك؟ هذا هو رأي عدد من المؤرخين، وعلى رأسهم نورمان فينكلشتين الذي وصف الكتاب بالخدعة الهائلة وخصص رسالة الدكتوراه للرد عليه وتفنيد ادعاءاته، وقد نشر أجزاءً منها في بعض كتبه التي أنوي قراءتها. الادعاءات الموجودة في الكتاب لا يقول بها حتى بعض الصهاينة، مثلًا يعترف القائد العسكري موشي ديان بأن المشروع الصهيوني مشروع استيطاني استعماري، وأن ردة فعل الفلسطينيين عليه طبيعية ومتوقعة.
إذا كنتُ أعلم كل هذا فلماذا قرأت الكتاب أصلًا؟ للاطلاع على وجهة النظر الأخرى من فم معتنقيها. لا أنصح بقراءة الكتاب إلا لمن يريد التعمق في الموضوع وقراءة الردود عليه، فأنصاف الحقائق والحقائق المنتقاة بعناية تستطيع عكس صورة مخالفة للواقع وإن كانت كل حقيقة في حد ذاتها صحيحة.
هل سمعت عن قلب الحقائق والتلاعب بها؟ هذا الكتاب هو مصداق لذلك. الصحفية الأمريكية جون بيتيرز والتي نشرت هذا الكتاب في ثمانينات القرن الماضي تدعي أن معظم الخبراء والمتخصصين في موضوع تاريخ فلسطين مخطؤون وأن ما اكتشفته هي يمكن أن يغير نظرتنا بشكل كامل للصراع. فما الذي اكتشفته؟
إن حدود الانتداب البريطاني على فلسطين ليست هي الحدود المعروفة لفلسطين، بل تشمل كل من فلسطين والأردن، أو فلسطين الشرقية والغربية كما تطلق عليها الكاتبة، والخريطة الغريبة على غلاف الكتاب هي خريطة فلسطين الكاملة - أي الأردن وفلسطين. ��العرب قد حصلوا على دولة عربية هي إمارة شرق الأردن في ١٩٢١ والتي اقتطعت من حدود الانتداب البريطاني على فلسطين، وتشكل مساحتها أكثر من ثلاثة أرباع مساحة الانتداب. إذًا حسب الكاتبة فإن اليهود الذي وعدوا بوطن قومي في فلسطين -وعد بلفور والانتداب من قبل عصبة الأمم- قد خسروا أكثر من ثلاثة أرباع الأرض عندما قررت بريطانيا تأسيس إمارة شرق الأردن، أو فلسطين الشرقية كما تشير لها الكاتبة.
النقطة الثانية هي حول التواجد السكاني، حيث تزعم الكاتبة أن فلسطين كانت ارضًا قاحلة وغير مسكونة إلا بعدد قليل من السكان، وأن الهجرات اليهودية التي بدأت في نهاية القرن الت��سع عشر هي التي أسهمت في ازدهار المنطقة اقتصاديًا وبالتالي جذبت هجرة العرب من سوريا ولبنان ومصر وغيرها إليها. فاليهود أصبحوا هم الأساس، أما العرب فهم المهاجرون!
وعن أحداث تهجير الفلسطينيين في ١٩٤٧-١٩٤٨، فإن الكاتبة تقول أن ما حدث هو بسبب طلب المقاتلين العرب من الفلسطينيين الهجرة لفسح المجال لهم للقضاء على اليهود بالإضافة للهلع الذي حصل نتيجة التهويل في حجم الجرائم، فلم تكن هناك سياسة يهودية لطردهم، بل بالعكس طلب يهود حيفا من العرب البقاء. وعمومًا ما حصل هو تبادل للسكان، فاليهود العرب الذين كانوا يعانون كافة أصناف العذابات والتضييق والتمييز تم طردهم من البلاد العربية كالعراق واليمن والمغرب ومصر ولجؤوا لاسرائيل، وهذا لا يختلف عن عمليات تبادل السكان التي حدثت بين تركيا واليونان، أو بين الهند وباكستان.
أما أزمة اللاجئين الفلسطينيين، فهي أزمة مفتعلة، حيث أنه وعلى عكس اليهود العرب الذين استقبلتهم إسرائيل بالأحضان وقامت بتجنيسهم وإعطائهم كل حقوق المواطنة، فإن اللاجئين العرب في كافة الدول العربية ما عدا الأردن لم يتم توطينهم، بل أصبحوا لاجئين للأبد، وهي تعتبرهم ضحايا للسياسات العربية التي لا تهدف لمساعدتهم، بل لاستخدامهم سياسيًا كورقة لتدمير اسرائيل عن طريق الزيادة السكانية بعد أن عجزوا عن ذلك بالحرب.
هل تبدو هذه المزاعم غير معقولة أو مثيرة للضحك؟ هذا هو رأي عدد من المؤرخين، وعلى رأسهم نورمان فينكلشتين الذي وصف الكتاب بالخدعة الهائلة وخصص رسالة الدكتوراه للرد عليه وتفنيد ادعاءاته، وقد نشر أجزاءً منها في بعض كتبه التي أنوي قراءتها. الادعاءات الموجودة في الكتاب لا يقول بها حتى بعض الصهاينة، مثلًا يعترف القائد العسكري موشي ديان بأن المشروع الصهيوني مشروع استيطاني استعماري، وأن ردة فعل الفلسطينيين عليه طبيعية ومتوقعة.
إذا كنتُ أعلم كل هذا فلماذا قرأت الكتاب أصلًا؟ للاطلاع على وجهة النظر الأخرى من فم معتنقيها. لا أنصح بقراءة الكتاب إلا لمن يريد التعمق في الموضوع وقراءة الردود عليه، فأنصاف الحقائق والحقائق المنتقاة بعناية تستطيع عكس صورة مخالفة للواقع وإن كانت كل حقيقة في حد ذاتها صحيحة.
October 13, 2015
At last, I'm finished! It took almost a year, but it was worth it. This book is slow going because it is filled chockablock with facts and analyses - all painstakingly researched and documented - as well as copious notes bibliographical, methodological, and otherwise; but it does suffer from repetition, redundancies, and organizational lapses. No doubt, more attention by a talented professional editor would have been very beneficial. This has all been well discussed in previous reviews and I commend them to you. What I want to say here, is that I gave this book 5 stars in spite of it's technical literary flaws, because it is far and away the best (really, unmatched in my opinion) resource for sorting out and understanding the root causes of the Arab/ Israeli conflict that has been an international sore spot since well before WWI and, as it happens - has burst into flames and violence in our headlines once again just nowadays. You may agree or disagree with the author's unconcealed theses and biases, but for comprehensiveness, and verifiability, there is no better source available. Everyone has an opinion, it seems, about this complex and viciously distorted and demagogued issue, but for those who like to have informed opinions, this book is a must.
July 9, 2011
What an eye opener! Joan Peters' extensive research was very informative, and I learned a great deal about both sides of the Palestinian refugee issue. Israel's daily fight for survival in this very hostile region of the world seems next to impossible, and yet they have survived, and thrived, for 53 years. Truly an amazing, objective look at this seemingly impossible conflict.
August 15, 2021
This book is a hoax. Move on.
https://merip.org/1985/10/conspiracy-...
https://merip.org/1985/10/conspiracy-...
December 1, 2019
This book is very one-sided, but based on the facts adduced in extreme detail, a criticism of bias would be merely an extension of thousands of years of injustice.
This book reinforced my life experience that leads me to despise all religion. It's bad enough in America where we seem to be creating a crypto-religious divide between "the right" and "liberals". It's bad enough that many of us live in intellectual bubbles and build false narratives about people living in other bubbles. It's bad enough that some of these false narratives are racist and religious in nature. At least we're not in dispute over each other's political right to exist... yet.
No, that last sentence wrongly projects a "many sides" perspective that I now believe is inadmissible for the "Israel / Palestine issue." To be more precise I would re-frame that sentence as "At least one side has not yet had the opportunity to violently and viciously oppress the other through a hundred generations, while successfully casting themselves as victims on the world stage."
I hesitate to set down the salient points I learned from this book, for fear that some ideologue will rage-comment me. It wouldn't be wrong to point out that my ignorance about the history of Israel is relieved solely by what I learned from Joan Peters in this book. (That, plus a rather thorough inculcation with Old Testament + New Testament text in childhood). With that said, I find this book highly credible given the evident research and tedious recitation of primary sources: detail claimed as necessary by the author in light of its counter-factual nature vis a vis popular understanding of the Israel / Palestine "issue".
I recommend this book to Jarvanka, oops, I mean Jared Kushner.
This book reinforced my life experience that leads me to despise all religion. It's bad enough in America where we seem to be creating a crypto-religious divide between "the right" and "liberals". It's bad enough that many of us live in intellectual bubbles and build false narratives about people living in other bubbles. It's bad enough that some of these false narratives are racist and religious in nature. At least we're not in dispute over each other's political right to exist... yet.
No, that last sentence wrongly projects a "many sides" perspective that I now believe is inadmissible for the "Israel / Palestine issue." To be more precise I would re-frame that sentence as "At least one side has not yet had the opportunity to violently and viciously oppress the other through a hundred generations, while successfully casting themselves as victims on the world stage."
I hesitate to set down the salient points I learned from this book, for fear that some ideologue will rage-comment me. It wouldn't be wrong to point out that my ignorance about the history of Israel is relieved solely by what I learned from Joan Peters in this book. (That, plus a rather thorough inculcation with Old Testament + New Testament text in childhood). With that said, I find this book highly credible given the evident research and tedious recitation of primary sources: detail claimed as necessary by the author in light of its counter-factual nature vis a vis popular understanding of the Israel / Palestine "issue".
I recommend this book to Jarvanka, oops, I mean Jared Kushner.
March 15, 2016
Very compelling. I've heard that Edward Said's Orientalism is one of the most assigned books in college. This book should be required reading in those courses (for balance), and for anyone else interested in the truth behind the lies upon lies that have become the new reality in Israel and Palestine/Jordan.
April 5, 2024
Yes, I am aware of the mistake re the Hope Simpson report, but I don't regard Peters' case as "debunked" as a result, as Wikipedia would have it. On the contrary, the entire thrust of the multipronged argument of this book remains robust and inarguable.
As an aside, the combination of the all-hands-on-deck left wing campaign against "From Time Immemorial" (back in the 80s) in combination with the difficulty obtaining the book, suggests to me a deliberate effort at suppression. Why else should a prize-winning volume of this erudition and consequence (and not antique vintage, either) be out of print and unavailable for sale except at exorbitant used prices?
As an aside, the combination of the all-hands-on-deck left wing campaign against "From Time Immemorial" (back in the 80s) in combination with the difficulty obtaining the book, suggests to me a deliberate effort at suppression. Why else should a prize-winning volume of this erudition and consequence (and not antique vintage, either) be out of print and unavailable for sale except at exorbitant used prices?
August 30, 2012
A comprehensive book that details how the Jews and Arabs came to the current day conflict in Israel. The book is rich on facts, and lays bare most claims of modern day Palestinians to the land of Israel. While well-researched, this is a meaty book and not an easy read, and is fairly repetitive. Along the way, I had to put this down for a while, go on to other books, and come back when I had the energy to continue.
November 2, 2023
This is the most well-researched books that I have ever read. I mostly read academic books and none that I have come across thus far have matched the research and references that are supplied in this book. Even if you disagree with the general thesis of this book, you owe it to yourself to read it and consider the wealth of research that is brought to bear on the topic.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 54 reviews