In this extraordinarily fine translation of Cligès, the second of five surviving Arthurian poems by twelfth-century French poet Chrétien de Troyes, Burton Raffel captures the liveliness, innovative spirit, and subtle intentions of the original work. In this poem, Chrétien creates his most artful plot and paints the most starkly medieval portraits of any of his romances. The world he describes has few of the safeguards and protections of civilization: battles are brutal and merciless, love is anguished and desperate. Cligès tells the story of the unhappy Fenice, trapped in a marriage of constraint to the emperor of Constantinople. Fenice feigns death, then awakens to a new, happy life with her lover.
Enormously popular in their own time, each of Chrétien's great verse romances is a fast-paced psychologically oriented narrative. In a rational and realistic manner, Chrétien probes the inner workings of his characters and the world they live in, evoking the people, their customs, and their values in clear, emotionally charged verse. Cligès is filled with Chrétien's barbs and bawdiness, his humor and his pleasure, his affection and his contempt. It is the unmistakable work of a brilliantly individualistic poet, brought to modern English readers by Raffel's poetic translation in a metric form invented specifically to reflect Chrétien's narrative speed and tone.
Chrétien de Troyes, commonly regarded as the father of Arthurian romance and a key figure in Western literature, composed in French in the latter part of the twelfth century. Virtually nothing is known of his life. Possibly a native of Troyes, he enjoyed patronage there from the Countess Marie of Champagne before dedicating his last romance to Count Philip of Flanders, perhaps about 1182. His poetry is marked by a learning and a taste for dialectic acquired in Latin schools; but at the same time it reveals a warm human sympathy which breathes life into characters and situations. Whilst much of his matter is inherited from the world of Celtic myth and the events notionally unfold in the timeless reign of King Arthur, the society and customs are those of Chrétien's own day. In his last, unfinished work, Perceval, the mysterious Grail makes its first appearance in literature.
Es un libro muy amable en cuanto a dificultad, así que lamento no haberlo leído antes de otros textos medievales pesados que leí anteriormente. Me gustaron las referencias directas a Tristán e Isolda y que se inscriba dentro del mundo del rey Arturo. La historia de amor es similar a la de los primeros (Cligès es sobrino del hombre que se casa con su enamorada, Fenice) y el giro del final es interesantísimo, al punto que guarda referencias con una obra de teatro muy famosa de William Shakespeare (reservo el nombre).
No me encantó tanto como quería porque tiene un par de reflexiones sobre el Amor (así, con mayúscula) que se vuelven repetitivas, ya que antes del nacimiento de Cligès cuenta la historia de sus padres Alejandro y Soredamor. Otra cosa que influyó en la calificación es lo hilarante o lo imposibles que llegan a ser algunas escenas, por más que la magia sea un elemento sobrenatural que está muy presente en el libro.
Bon, je vais pas faire comme si j'aurais choisi le moindre des livres d'agrég pour mes vacances à la plage, donc toutes mes notes sont relatives et non absolues. Allez pas croire que je suis extatique même quand je mets 5 #rageuse.
Cligès c'est très fun. Les monologues introspectifs sont incr (madame de lafayette who?), et grâce aux trois articles que j'ai lus (+ mes propres soupçons) j'ai un tiroir de théories du complot à sortir pour décoiffer le jury de l'agreg. Il est bien loin le temps où je crachais sur Yvan le chevalier au lion dans mon compte rendu de lecture de 5e
Deuxieme roman de Chretien de Troyes , ecrit a peu pres en 1176, en 6702 en vers octosyllabes, il reelabore l'amour courtois, sa naissance, et ses sequelles. Le roman, apres le prologue ou Chretien, met en scene son erudition en mentionnant ce qu'il connait et a racontetout en nous faisant part d'un livre trouve dans la bibliotheque du monseigneur Saint-Pierre a Beauvais. Chretien montre ici cette obsession de gens lettres au sujet de la memoire et de faire perdurer quelque chose qui est en train de devenir desuet et de mourir sans laisser de trace. Le romam est a la fois orienta et byzantin , grec, breton ou Chretien lit imaginativement le monde grec a la matiere arthurienne et bretonne Le roman suit les deux histoires, celle du pere de Cliges, Alexanre,, aine du roi de Grece et la soeur de Gauvain, soeur d'amour Soredamour, et leurs regards et les yeux rencontres et emprisonnes pour de bon dans leur ame ou ils trouvent leur siege. C'est Amour et l'amour vrai qui est le veritable heros dans ce roman comme aussi dans l' oeuvre precedant, Erec et Enide. Dans tous les deux Chretien essaie de concilier l'amour avec le mariage, et prouver son existence comme possible. C'est Amour comme magie, amour qui aide a faire vaincre des obstacles qui cree le merveilleux en un autre espace temps, celui de reve amoureux - ce qui traduit bien la rime songe / mensonge lui donnant son sens . La deuxieme histoire, est celle de Cliges et Phenice au nom magique et renaissant en joie et en douleur vers une nouvelle vie, sa tante, la femme de son oncle paternel Alis. Et Amour vainc par un recit magique, incantatoire, puisant sa force dans l'art de bien dire une histoire valeureuse et amoureuse et de donner a son oeuvre puisant la matiere de l'ailleurs, une force et un sceau bien personnels. le roman met en avant des le titre une illusion qui s'elabore. il est question des yeux et du coeur qui se sont soumis a l' Amour. L'amour fait voir au souffrant ou a l'amoureux ce qu'il veut ou croit voir - une vision esquivee, voir en biais. extrait ou Alis, oncle paternel de cliges touche par le philtre enivre par lui que la nourrice de Fenice lui a fait boire:
il croit la tenir, mais il n'a rien d'elle, un pur neant fait son bonheur, il enlace du neant, embrasse du neant, c'est du neant qu'il voit, auquel il parle, du neant avec lequel il se debat!
J'ai beaucoup rigolé Voici un exemple de passage amusant : « Les ignobles bâtards lui disent que si elle ne se dépêche pas de parler, vont la mettre sur un gril et la faire rôtir » !!!!!!!!!
Sachez que j’adore faire partie des 1% de la population ayant lu Chrétien de Troyes. J’adore encore plus faire partie des 0,1% de la population ayant aimé lire Chrétien de Troyes. Je me sens très smart et c’est une sensation super. Je ne peux donc que vous conseiller de le lire
I didn't expect this to be as fun, lucid, and clever as it is. If the stereotype of Arthurian romance is to be cliche, stiff, meandering, and naive this is really something of a counterexample. For starters, it has a frame narrative of being a found document much in the way of Don Quixote, and that affords Chrétien the mythical framework to really get as ridiculous as possible with this. We're talking knights that run headlong into enemy fortresses lopping off heads and limbs in single swipes, but then returning to camp and having long internal battles over the fact that he can't so much as look his qt crush in the eyes. Perhaps one thing which makes this feel so fresh is how little anglicized it is, being written by a Frenchman and following Greek characters which tilts this closer to classical myth than Arthurian legend. The same folks we all know show up but they play bit parts. But perhaps what makes this so interesting is how much focus Chrétien puts on their interior lives. The main concept of this romance is the reciprocity of love, that is love freely volunteered between equal parties, which is amazing considering how the cliche of romances is the damsel to be taken from the captors. Chrétien is cartoony but only superficially so, and these characters come out far more well rounded than they have any right to be. He wants you to think this is a goofy ridiculous myth yet at the same time makes digs at Tristian and Isolde for being idiots. I'll admit that Chrétien isn't quite subtle in his ironies, but that's maybe what makes him so fun. For example, Remember Saint Paul's advice, And follow it: he teaches that those Who can't remain chaste should always Carefully arrange their affairs So no one knows what they're doing. Cligès reads pretty quickly and part of it is good pacing on the part of Chrétien, but I'd give a lot of credit to Raffel's verse translation. There are prose versions floating around but I can't imagine them as fast and snappy as this reads. It doesn't feel nine centuries old, which is pretty amazing, though again a lot of the credit for this goes to the poet. Overall I'm impressed and somewhat ashamed, for myself and everyone else, that this is a work that flies under the radar. It deserves more than that. Strong Recommendation.
Every single Arthurian romance is the same when it comes to the knights fighting. They’re all the best, most superior, etc. But the real thing that sets each romance apart is the ROMANCE. give me 50% more story about Fenice and Tessala saving the day with magic !!
Ce livre m’a plus au fur et à mesure des pages. Fenice devient une figure d’impérialisme corrompue de l’empire romain d’orient sur des générations après elle. Cligès empereur grecque et lié au royaume de Bretagne représente la pureté, la beauté, l’éphémère de la vie. Il est reconnu pour sa justesse, sa bonté et sa beauté notamment par l’amour passionnel que lui ont transmis ses parents.
Cligès começa com a história de Alexandre, seu pai, filho do imperador da Grécia, que viaja para junto da corte do Rei Arthur para se tornar um cavaleiro sob os seus cuidados. Na corte, Alexandre conhece Soredamors, e ambos rapidamente se apaixonam mas ocultam seus sentimentos até que a rainha Guinevere intervenha.
“Soredamors, who was scornful of love. She had never heard tell of any man, however handsome or brave or mighty or noble, whom she would deign to love. Yet in spite of this the maiden was so comely and attractive that she should have learned Love’s lessons, had she been pleased to hear them. But she refused to pay them any mind. Now Love would cause her suffering and try to take revenge for the haughtiness and scorn she had always shown towards him. Love aimed well when he shot his arrow into her heart. Frequently she grew pale and often broke into a sweat; in spite of herself, she had to love. Only with great difficulty could she avoid looking at Alexander;” “In this way she quarrelled with herself. One moment she loved and the next she hated. She was so confused that she did not know what was best to do. She thought she was defending herself against Love, but any defence was useless. God! If only she had known that Alexander was thinking about her too! Love gave them equal portions of what he owed them. He treated them reasonably and rightly, for each loved and desired the other.” “Their love was constantly growing and increasing, but each was embarrassed in front of the other, and they hid and covered over so much that no flame or smoke appeared from the ember lying beneath the ashes. Yet the heat was no less for all this, because heat lasts longer beneath the ashes than on” “love forever! Whom? Indeed, what a question! The one Love commands me to love, for no other will ever have my love. What does it matter, since he will not know it unless I tell him myself? What shall I do if I don’t beg his love? Whoever wants anything must petition and request it.” “What? Shall I beg him then? No. Why not? Because no one has ever seen a woman behave so wrongly as to ask a man to love her, unless she were more deranged than the next person.” Com a ajuda da rainha, ambos expressam seu amor, se casam e nasce Cligès. “Now, Soredamors, receive what is yours; and you, Alexander, receive your lady.’ Thus she had what was hers, and he what was his; she was his entirely, and he entirely hers.” “Before three months had passed, Soredamors found that fruit had been sown within her womb, which she carried to term. The seed remained in germ until the fruit was fully ripened into a child. There was no finer creature before nor since than the child […]”
Alexandre descobre então que seu pai havia morrido e seu irmão Alis havia assumido o trono em seu lugar após um marinheiro comunicar falsamente que Alexandre havia morrido em seu retorno para a Grécia. Com a sua família, ele retorna para a sua corte e convence seu irmão a não se casar e não ter filhos, que assim seria mantido como imperador nominalmente até que o trono fosse passado para Cligès, enquanto que as decisões de governo seriam tomadas por Alexandre. O pai de Cligès porém morre no decorrer da história de uma doença violenta, junto com Soredamors. “But she who is called Death spares neither the weak man nor the strong, for she slays and kills them all. Alexander, too, had to die, since he became prisoner to a disease for which there was no cure.” “Soredamors’s grief was such that she could not survive him, so she died in sorrow with him.” Alis no entanto é dissuadido de sua promessa por alguns de seus conselheiros, e busca a filha do Imperador Alemão, Fenice, para ser sua esposa. Fenice e Cligès, no entanto, se apaixonam a primeira vista, mas nada podiam fazer para evitar o casamento. “He gazed upon her most tenderly, but he did not notice that she was offering him fair exchange: in true love, without deceit, she offered him her gaze and then took his.” Assim, Fenice pede para sua amiga Thessala, experiente com poções e magias, que faça uma poção que impedisse que seu casamento fosse consumado com o imperador Alis. “And if the emperor takes his pleasure of me, then I will have lost my own happiness and can expect no other. I’d rather be torn limb from limb than have our love remembered like that of Tristan and Isolde, which has become a source of mockery and makes me ashamed to talk of it. I could never agree to lead the life Isolde led.”
“This is how he’ll have his sport with you: while he’s asleep he’ll believe that he’s awake and making love to you.’ The girl cherished, praised, and valued this kindness and this service.” “As was fitting? I have lied, for he neither kissed nor touched her, though they lay together in the same bed. At first the girl quaked, fearful and concerned that the potion would fail. But such is the potency of its charm that he would never again desire her or any other woman, except in his sleep.”
Antes de retornarem, Fenice é capturada por seu pretendente anterior, mas é salva por Cligès. “He, whose every deed was emboldened by her, afraid of her alone? God! What was the source of this fear, that caused him to cower only before a maiden, a weak and fearful creature, simple and shy?”
“A servant should tremble with fear when his master calls or summons him, and whoever devotes himself to Love makes Love his lord and master. Thus it is right that whoever wishes to be numbered among the court of Love should greatly revere and honour him. Love without fear and trepidation is like a fire without flame or heat, a day without sunlight […].”
“So I wish to challenge the opinion that love can be found where there is no fear. Whoever wishes to love must feel fear; if he does not, he cannot love. But he must fear only the one he loves, and be emboldened for her sake in all else.”
O plano inicial funciona bem, sem o imperador nunca descobrir sobre a poção que fora feito beber. Cligès, então, parte para a corte do Rei Arthur seguindo os passos e recomendações de seu pai, conseguindo grandes vitórias em combates. Ao retornar, expressa seus sentimentos para Fenice.
“at the moment of parting Cligés had said that he was wholly devoted to her. This expression was so sweet and comforting to her, that from her tongue it slid into her heart, and she placed it in her heart and on her tongue so that she might guard it more closely.” “‘My lady,’ he said, ‘I loved while there, but I loved no one who was from there. My body was in Britain without my heart, like a piece of bark without its heartwood. I don’t know what became of my heart after I left Germany, except that it followed you here. My heart was here and my body there.” “Nothing of me but the bark is left, for my heart is gone and I’m living without it. Though I have never been to Britain, my heart has had some sort of business there without me.’”
Para resolverem de uma vez por todas esta situação, ambos pedem a ajuda de Thessala e John, um arquiteto, para poderem fingir a morte de Fenice e levá-la embora. Através de uma nova poção, ela é posta para dormir como se estivesse morta, mas o plano é percebido por alguns médicos peregrinos. Após tentarem tortura-la para despertarem-na, são assassinados pelo povo, e assim Fenice consegue escapar e ser levada para a torre construída por John e curada por Thessala. Juntos, os dois passam 14 meses na torre, mas são descobertos por Bertrand, que conta ao rei que Fenice ainda estava viva e dormir junto ao Cligès. Eles então fogem para a corte do Rei Arthur, a quem pedem ajuda, mas antes de retornarem a Grécia com o apoio do rei recebem a notícia de que seu tio havia morrido devido ao sofrimento de não conseguir captura-los. “Greece is now yours and Constantinople, by the rights you have to them. Though you do not know it, your uncle died of the grief he suffered because he could not find you. His sorrow was so great that he lost his mind; he stopped eating and drinking and died insane. Dear sire, return with us, for all your barons have sent for you.”
“[…] given a joyful welcome befitting a new lord. Then they gave Cligés his sweetheart to be his wife, and the two of them were crowned. He had made his sweetheart his wife, but he called her sweetheart and lady; she lost nothing in marrying, since he loved her still as his sweetheart; and she, too, loved him as a lady should love her lover. Each day their love grew stronger. He never doubted her in any way or ever quarrelled with her over anything; she was never kept confined as many empresses since her have been.”
----------------- Segundo poema de Chrétien de Troyes, de 1176; pareceu muito bem escrito, de forma muito mais elegante e até romântica comparado com Erec and Enide (1170). A narrativa foi simples e o jeito que o texto se desenrola é simplesmente bonito, tanto que é por isso que este resumo foi escrito com mais citações que o normal. No início, as expressões utilizadas por Soredamors para se referir ao seu amor por Alexandre foram bem impactantes, assim como os comentários do próprio narrador na história: “In this way she quarrelled with herself. One moment she loved and the next she hated. She was so confused that she did not know what was best to do. She thought she was defending herself against Love, but any defence was useless. God! If only she had known that Alexander was thinking about her too! Love gave them equal portions of what he owed them. He treated them reasonably and rightly, for each loved and desired the other.” “He, whose every deed was emboldened by her, afraid of her alone? God! What was the source of this fear, that caused him to cower only before a maiden, a weak and fearful creature, simple and shy?”
“A servant should tremble with fear when his master calls or summons him, and whoever devotes himself to Love makes Love his lord and master. Thus it is right that whoever wishes to be numbered among the court of Love should greatly revere and honour him. Love without fear and trepidation is like a fire without flame or heat, a day without sunlight […].”
“So I wish to challenge the opinion that love can be found where there is no fear. Whoever wishes to love must feel fear; if he does not, he cannot love. But he must fear only the one he loves, and be emboldened for her sake in all else.”
As referências constantes também a Tristão e Isolda trazem também uma familiaridade com a história e a torna mais imersiva, já que é possível realmente entender os sentimentos dos personagens. E apesar de ser mais um romance medieval com adultério como background, o autor consegue escapar do problema de uma maneira criativa diferente de em Tristão e Isolda na versão de Joseph Bedier. Em resumo, foi um poema extremamente agradável de ler, principalmente porque foram 2 histórias em 1: Alexandre na primeira parte, e seu filho Cligès na segunda. Ambos tiveram um final feliz (mais ou menos), e é isso que eu gosto.
This is Chrétien's fix-it fic for the story of Tristan and Iseut, a story he loathes because he is so squicked by adultery. Cligès, like Tristan, falls in love with his uncle's intended (and doesn't even have the excuse of a love potion to proffer for it). However, unlike the hapless King Mark, Cligès's uncle Alis is actually the one wronging his nephew by taking a bride, which he promised his dead, usurped older brother that he would never do so that his throne would pass to Cligès, who can therefore argue that his uncle started it.
Furthermore, rather than falling victim to a love potion, Cligès's resourceful sweetheart Fenice gets her nurse to brew up a potion of her own, which causes Alis to fall asleep every night in their marital bed and dry-hump his mattress whilst dreaming of his wife, meaning that their marriage is never actually consummated, meaning that it doesn't actually count, so there! I ... do not believe that it would work that way, but I haven't actually reviewed any relevant medieval case law, so I'll let Chrétian have his technical non-adultery.
Fenice, wanting to escape her sham marriage so she can finally get it on with Cligès, fakes her own death with the same stuff Juliet used. Unfortunately, she is intercepted on her way to her tomb by a lot of fancy Italian doctors, who take her pulse and notice that she is still, although unresponsive to their questioning. Finding this state of affairs unsatisfactory, said doctors proceed to whip her bloody, pour molten lead into her hands, and are finally preparing to grill her alive, apparently on the principle that if she isn't going to act like she's alive, she shouldn't be permitted to remain so any longer. At the crucial moment, however, a mob of indignant ladies intervene and deservedly defenestrate the doctors for having such terrible bedside manners.
Understandably, Fenice's convalescence from this ordeal takes time. She and Cligès live happily together for over a year in the secret tower that Cligès commissioned from the same serf who built the trick crypt for Fenice. It has a fancy garden and everything and they would apparently stay there happily forever if one of Alis's men didn't climb into the tower garden to retrieve a mislaid hawk and surprise them in flagrante. This man is so credulous he is actually prepared to believe that the woman that Cligès is getting it on with just happens to look exactly like the late lamented empress, but Cligès gives it all away by saying Oh noes, now I have to kill this guy to protect our secret, so then he does have to kill that guy to protect their secret. Except, in spite of pwning all of King Arthur's knights four days running in different colored suits of armor earlier, he only manages to lop off this poor guy's leg, so he drags himself back to Alis to break the bad news to him.
Cligès gets Arthur to send him an army to fight his uncle, but conveniently by the time he gets back, Alis has died of grief, so he can get married and assume his throne without any casualties besides Missing Leg Guy. And the moral of the story is: you can still live happily ever after if you weasel out of your technical adultery.
Book 35 Cliges by Chretien de Troyes no new update or authors Rating 3/5 Summary: This is the story of Alexander the Great and his grandson. After Alexander dies Cliges is suppose to inherit all of the empire. Instead, his uncle keeps it to himself and takes a wife (after he promises not to). Cliges and Fenice ( the uncles wife) end up falling in love. They devise a plan in order to be together for all time. And it works. What I thought of it: This one was kind of hard to get into. I hate the long Monologue. I mean who the hell needs to talk for 5 pages. And plus, they would repeat and be about the same damn things. When Fenice suggested her plan the book got interesting. Its a little like R and J. She decides to fake her death by drinking a sleeping potion. The emperor believes it and has a man build her a coffin. The whole time he is helping them escape. Plus the ending just infuriates me. Every man is now worried that his empress is going to pull a stunt that Fenice did. They have to know Thessla and where to find potion in order to do that. And keeping their wives prisionor is terrible! Shame shame shame
I was for more interested in Alexander and Soredamors than Cliges and Fenice. This barely counts as an Arthurian story. Too Chretien I love you, I even enjoyed Erec and Enide. But this is absolutely awful. I hate the protagonists so much.
This Book is exactly what Tristan and Iesult wanted but couldn't have in The Romance of Tristan by Beroul. It's funny, really... vigilance and discretion prevail here. I love the monologues the author gives us of how Cliges and Fenice feel for each other, and how Alexander and Sorendemor (Cliges' parents) felt for each other, without knowing that both sides felt the same. When Cliges asks Fenice how they will pursue their desires for one another, he initially suggests running away. However, Fenice disagrees with Cliges as she mentions that she doesn’t want her fate to be like Tristan and Queen Yseut. Instead, she believes vigilance will lead to success as the public won’t condemn them for unknown mistakes. And they succeeded. Bravo. An adventurous and compelling read.
Trop fan !!! C'est drôle, épique, touchant par moments avec les monologues internes qui sont excellents. Le modèle du héros y est repensé ironiquement donc ça change bcp du chevalier parfait de ce que j'avais déjà lu. Parfois, Cligès est maladroit mais ce n'est pas un livre où il est en quête d'un idéal. Tout lui est servi sur un plateau et donc c'est vraiment drôle. enfin franchement des barres et en même temps des passages trop cools sur l'amour avec un rythme effréné
Cliges is Chretien de Troyes answer to Tristan and Iseult -- which concludes with a happy ending. I enjoyed the exploration of love and the consciousness of Fenice, the heroine, in making sure she succeeds in freeing herself from her marriage so that she can satisfy her love for Cliges, the hero, without making Iseult's mistakes.
TW : Violence It was so boring, damn. Only the last 50 pages had actions, but the rest was boring. I felt like I read twice the same story in this book, as we first follow Alexandre and then his son. And uh, really, it had nothing new compared to other Middle Ages books, in my opinion. For reals.
c’était rigolo, je me suis bien amusée avec ces personnages quelle drôle d’idée de passer la moitié du roman à raconter l’histoire du daron de ton héros les débats sans fin sur le nombre de coeur qu’il peut y avoir dans un être humain mdr cligès le meilleur à la baston dans l’ensemble, une très chouette première incursion dans la littérature médiévale pour moi, j’ai kiffé
Superbe traduction! J’ai lu plusieurs œuvres de Chrétien de Troyes dans la collection Lettres gothiques de Livre de poche et selon moi il s’agit de la meilleure de celle que j’ai lue jusqu’à maintenant.
Hacia el final, con todo el plan que traman los amantes, se pone mejor. El resto me aburrió. De los roman artúricos que leí es el que menos me gustó (quizás, por el rechazo de Chrétien hacia Tristán e Iseo...)
Un roman médiéval profond, qui mêle de nombreux questionnements sur l’amour et un fort registre épique. Peu de longueurs et assez de suspense, en plus d’une réactualisation de l’histoire de Tristan et Iseut. Belle découverte!
The alexander and soredamor plot was so fun wish we got more of them tbh. The cliges and fenice storyline was so romeo and juliet but happier lol. But i really love the way romance was written during this time