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FROM EDEN TO EXILE
Will be dispatched from UK. Brand new copy.
528 pages, Paperback
First published October 17, 2002
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July 21, 2020
این که من بخوام در مورد محتوای این کتاب بنویسم خب واقعا کار سختیه، چون نیازه که به اتفاقات عهد عتیق تسلط داشته باشم و لازمه این خوندن توراته که اگر فرصتی شد حتما میخونم. قضاوت در مورد این کتاب از یک جهت دیگه هم سخته چرا که من نمیتونم تشخیص بدم که نویسنده چه گرایشی داشته؟ آیا هدفش تخریب قوم یهود بوده؟ یا صرفا گفتن یک سری واقعیت های تاریخی بر اساس یافته های باستان شناسی.
ولی نتیجه ای که من خواننده عادی گرفتم این بود که قوم یهود از لحظه خروج از اسرائیل و از زمانی که حضرت موسی اون گوساله زرین رو دید دست به کشتن بیرحمانه حتی زن ها و کودک ها غارت کردن و ویران کردن شهر ها بطوری که دیگه قابل سکونت نباشن دست زدند. و شاید یکی از دلایلی که این قوم هنوز روی آرامش رو ندیده رفتار پادشاهان اون دورانشون باشه و اگر تو یکی سرزمین با صلح در کنار همسایه های کنعانی، بابلی، مصری و... زندگی میکردن الان همچنان این صلح بر قرار بود. همچنین بر اساس گفته کتاب این قوم اینقدر نافرمانی میکنن که یهوه اون ها رو نفرین میکنه.
باید توضیح بدم که صحبت های من بر اساس خوندن همین یک کتاب بوده و شاید قضاوت های من تحت تاثیر نویسنده بوده، ولی خب اون هم اتفاقات عهد عتیق رو بر اساس یافته های باستان شناسی بررسی کرده.
این کتاب یه نکته دیگه ای که داشت و شاید برای اهل فن جالب باشه این بود که تاریخ وقایع رو جابجا کرده بود
امیدوارم با این ریوویو که نوشتم متهم به یهودی ستیزی نشم.
ولی نتیجه ای که من خواننده عادی گرفتم این بود که قوم یهود از لحظه خروج از اسرائیل و از زمانی که حضرت موسی اون گوساله زرین رو دید دست به کشتن بیرحمانه حتی زن ها و کودک ها غارت کردن و ویران کردن شهر ها بطوری که دیگه قابل سکونت نباشن دست زدند. و شاید یکی از دلایلی که این قوم هنوز روی آرامش رو ندیده رفتار پادشاهان اون دورانشون باشه و اگر تو یکی سرزمین با صلح در کنار همسایه های کنعانی، بابلی، مصری و... زندگی میکردن الان همچنان این صلح بر قرار بود. همچنین بر اساس گفته کتاب این قوم اینقدر نافرمانی میکنن که یهوه اون ها رو نفرین میکنه.
باید توضیح بدم که صحبت های من بر اساس خوندن همین یک کتاب بوده و شاید قضاوت های من تحت تاثیر نویسنده بوده، ولی خب اون هم اتفاقات عهد عتیق رو بر اساس یافته های باستان شناسی بررسی کرده.
این کتاب یه نکته دیگه ای که داشت و شاید برای اهل فن جالب باشه این بود که تاریخ وقایع رو جابجا کرده بود
امیدوارم با این ریوویو که نوشتم متهم به یهودی ستیزی نشم.
May 13, 2022
منطق تاریخنگاری حماسی، نمیتواند و نباید مشابه تاریخنگاری آکادمیک، باستانشناسانه و اسنادی باشد. اگر میل بر این باشد، نتیجه میشود ادعاهایی ضعیف در سند و اثبات، روی هوا و دم دستی. تاریخ حماسی اصولا تاریخی شفاهی است و با فرهنگ و اذهان در ارتباط است و نه با یافتههای باستانشناسانه. به همین خاطر خواندن آنها دانستن در مورد اندیشه انسانهای پیشین است و نه این که واقعا چه چیزی رخ داده. خواندن درک انسان پیشینی از وقایع و نه خود وقایع.
به همین خاطر تلاش برای پیوند تاریخ حماسی یا تاریخ آکادمیک و باستانشناسانه، مثل تلاشهای عبث برای پیوند دین با عقل مدرن و علوم جدید است، دو منطق متفاوت و آشتی ناپذیر. نتیجه چنین تلاشی همواره کاریکاتوری از هر دو بوده است. متولدی ناکارآمد و عجیب الخلقه که نه این است و نه آن.
به همین خاطر تلاش برای پیوند تاریخ حماسی یا تاریخ آکادمیک و باستانشناسانه، مثل تلاشهای عبث برای پیوند دین با عقل مدرن و علوم جدید است، دو منطق متفاوت و آشتی ناپذیر. نتیجه چنین تلاشی همواره کاریکاتوری از هر دو بوده است. متولدی ناکارآمد و عجیب الخلقه که نه این است و نه آن.
April 20, 2022
کتاب اطلاعات جالب و مفیدی در اختیار خواننده قرار میده اما ناقص بهنظر میرسه. مولف بیشتر(یا شاید کاملا) به جنبههای منفی عهد عتیق پرداخته و بسیاری از روایات جالب توجه این قوم رو بازگو نکرده. از طرفی جاهایی از کتاب اطلاعات و اسمها و القابی به خواننده میده که ضروری و لازم نیست و بیشتر خواننده رو دچار حواسپرتی و گیجی میکنه.
May 13, 2023
Old Testament read as the political history of Egypt, Israel, and the near East?
That has been attempted by many authors before David Rohl. But those attempts had relied upon the texts and established chronology. Consequently, many Biblical events and personalities could not be reconciled with history as we know it. Thus they had been looked at as either allegories or figments of imagination.
But this book relies upon the 'new chronology' espoused by Rohl and others. As a result, it succeeds in terms of 'fitting' the stories into the framework develped by archaeological findings to a great extent.
The writing was very-very lucid and straightforward, with proper reference, sketches and photographs.
As a book meant for general readers, it's very good indeed.
Recommended.
That has been attempted by many authors before David Rohl. But those attempts had relied upon the texts and established chronology. Consequently, many Biblical events and personalities could not be reconciled with history as we know it. Thus they had been looked at as either allegories or figments of imagination.
But this book relies upon the 'new chronology' espoused by Rohl and others. As a result, it succeeds in terms of 'fitting' the stories into the framework develped by archaeological findings to a great extent.
The writing was very-very lucid and straightforward, with proper reference, sketches and photographs.
As a book meant for general readers, it's very good indeed.
Recommended.
October 4, 2020
خیلی خوب بود
August 29, 2018
Elementary, My Dear Archaeologist
An enjoyable collection of archaeology related discussions aimed at a popular audience showing how biblical texts have been used to frame questions over historic development in the Levant. Cline does not take the POV that the Bible is literally true, rather he explores competing theories both of professional archeologists and popular amateurs by pointing out in Sherlockian fashion where existing evidence fits, and where it does not.
He begins with Eden using the narrative's references to the confluence of four named rivers to place the legendary garden at various locations. Similar clues are followed for trying match the story of the Flood, the final resting place of Noah's ark, and the wanderings of Abraham to actual geography, including speculation on the location of Sodom and Gomorrah. Cline doesn't expect confirmation, but its natural to consider that the geography and other details of the stories may give us clues about the origin of the story tellers. A minor omission - he places Abraham's birthplace in what later became Babylonia, with a possible alternate near Haran, Turkey - the locals of Urfa, 45 km NW, believe that their town is it.
Most certainly the conquests described in the books of Joshua and Judges where the annihilation of whole populations supposedly took place, never occurred. In the multiple time frames stipulated for the Exodus, Jericho the city had already been abandoned, and in none of them did the city, as we understand it, possess any walls. The other cities listed under the conquest existed and were destroyed at various points in time, but only Hazor show unique Israelite artifacts giving evidence of Israelite occupation. Where conquest does occur the time frame is spread out over several centuries. Cline favours a Phoenician conquest for plunder, not domination, followed by a migration of rural Hebrews into weakened towns and villages, eventually dominating them. He mentions an inscription found in 1993 at Tel Dan in northern Israel that makes reference to "The House of David", however while this supports the existence of the dynasty, outside of biblical text there is nothing to confirm the extent of the Kingdom.
As for the Ark of the Covenant, if it still exists it would have to be buried under the Temple Mount, currently not available to archeologists. After considering other possibilities, including the belief that it is kept in a church in Aksum, Ethiopia, the only reasonable alternative is that it was destroyed at the outset of the Babylonian exile, possibly melted down.
The final topic concerns the fate of the 10 lost tribes of Israel, the northern kingdom, which Cline asserts were never lost in the first place because we have confirming documentation with only minor differences from the Neo-Assyrians. Some 40,000 individuals, between 10 and 15% of the population (est: 40,000) of the northern kingdom was forcibly resettled in Assyria. Excavations in Jersulam and the surrounding area shows a marked increase in population at the time, an estimated 100-120,000 who fled south. Assyrians and other peoples were moved in and the Northern Israelites married between themselves and the new immigrants, likely becoming the Samaritans. So at least one mystery gets solved.
In the end Cline advises that the tales of the Bible may tell us more about the people who wrote the biblical saga down, starting roughly in the 7th century BC, than the events it portrays. A nice light read for cocktail party conversation - for more in depth assessments the references provided by the author should be followed instead.
An enjoyable collection of archaeology related discussions aimed at a popular audience showing how biblical texts have been used to frame questions over historic development in the Levant. Cline does not take the POV that the Bible is literally true, rather he explores competing theories both of professional archeologists and popular amateurs by pointing out in Sherlockian fashion where existing evidence fits, and where it does not.
He begins with Eden using the narrative's references to the confluence of four named rivers to place the legendary garden at various locations. Similar clues are followed for trying match the story of the Flood, the final resting place of Noah's ark, and the wanderings of Abraham to actual geography, including speculation on the location of Sodom and Gomorrah. Cline doesn't expect confirmation, but its natural to consider that the geography and other details of the stories may give us clues about the origin of the story tellers. A minor omission - he places Abraham's birthplace in what later became Babylonia, with a possible alternate near Haran, Turkey - the locals of Urfa, 45 km NW, believe that their town is it.
Most certainly the conquests described in the books of Joshua and Judges where the annihilation of whole populations supposedly took place, never occurred. In the multiple time frames stipulated for the Exodus, Jericho the city had already been abandoned, and in none of them did the city, as we understand it, possess any walls. The other cities listed under the conquest existed and were destroyed at various points in time, but only Hazor show unique Israelite artifacts giving evidence of Israelite occupation. Where conquest does occur the time frame is spread out over several centuries. Cline favours a Phoenician conquest for plunder, not domination, followed by a migration of rural Hebrews into weakened towns and villages, eventually dominating them. He mentions an inscription found in 1993 at Tel Dan in northern Israel that makes reference to "The House of David", however while this supports the existence of the dynasty, outside of biblical text there is nothing to confirm the extent of the Kingdom.
As for the Ark of the Covenant, if it still exists it would have to be buried under the Temple Mount, currently not available to archeologists. After considering other possibilities, including the belief that it is kept in a church in Aksum, Ethiopia, the only reasonable alternative is that it was destroyed at the outset of the Babylonian exile, possibly melted down.
The final topic concerns the fate of the 10 lost tribes of Israel, the northern kingdom, which Cline asserts were never lost in the first place because we have confirming documentation with only minor differences from the Neo-Assyrians. Some 40,000 individuals, between 10 and 15% of the population (est: 40,000) of the northern kingdom was forcibly resettled in Assyria. Excavations in Jersulam and the surrounding area shows a marked increase in population at the time, an estimated 100-120,000 who fled south. Assyrians and other peoples were moved in and the Northern Israelites married between themselves and the new immigrants, likely becoming the Samaritans. So at least one mystery gets solved.
In the end Cline advises that the tales of the Bible may tell us more about the people who wrote the biblical saga down, starting roughly in the 7th century BC, than the events it portrays. A nice light read for cocktail party conversation - for more in depth assessments the references provided by the author should be followed instead.
July 13, 2015
The conventional view of Biblical archaeologists is that archaelogy does not support the key biblical stories such as the Exodus, Invasion of Canaan and golden age of Solomon.
The ‘New Chronology’ concept advanced by David Rohl and colleagues shifts the relationship between archaeological, Egyptological and Biblical chronologies, and this brings out many apparent agreements between the evidence at aligned points of the three chronologies. It is thus argued that the New Chronology is correct and the conventional chronology wrong by a few centuries at some points.
The book begins with a plausible and enthralling although naturally unproveable description of historical events which may have provided inspiration for Genesis. It locates the Garden of Eden near modern Tabriz, Syria; Babel is Erech/Uruk in southern Mesopotamia. The book argues that Moses had studied all the myths published by Hammurabi’s Akkadians, often based on earlier Sumerian myths (and argues that Hammurabi and Moses were almost contemporaries) and had written Genesis on this basis. This would explain the similarities and borrowings from Sumerian literature.
The book posits that Sumerians or their predecessors colonised the Nile Valley after a voyage from the Persian Gulf to Red Sea.
The book provides a long description of the many events of Old Testament history and links them to the leaders, events and practices of other Fertile Crescent civilizations in very interesting ways. It all depends however on the New Chronology being correct. I can’t make a good judgement on this, but the book itself is at the very least an interesting read.
The ‘New Chronology’ concept advanced by David Rohl and colleagues shifts the relationship between archaeological, Egyptological and Biblical chronologies, and this brings out many apparent agreements between the evidence at aligned points of the three chronologies. It is thus argued that the New Chronology is correct and the conventional chronology wrong by a few centuries at some points.
The book begins with a plausible and enthralling although naturally unproveable description of historical events which may have provided inspiration for Genesis. It locates the Garden of Eden near modern Tabriz, Syria; Babel is Erech/Uruk in southern Mesopotamia. The book argues that Moses had studied all the myths published by Hammurabi’s Akkadians, often based on earlier Sumerian myths (and argues that Hammurabi and Moses were almost contemporaries) and had written Genesis on this basis. This would explain the similarities and borrowings from Sumerian literature.
The book posits that Sumerians or their predecessors colonised the Nile Valley after a voyage from the Persian Gulf to Red Sea.
The book provides a long description of the many events of Old Testament history and links them to the leaders, events and practices of other Fertile Crescent civilizations in very interesting ways. It all depends however on the New Chronology being correct. I can’t make a good judgement on this, but the book itself is at the very least an interesting read.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
June 15, 2024
این کتاب رو به این دلیل خوندم که کلا با تاریخ بنی اسرائیل اشنا بشم ولی خود کتاب بیشتر تمرکزش این بود که گاه شناسی جدید خودش رو اثبات کنه که خوب لازمه گاه شناسی قدیمی رو آدم بشناسه. البته برای من که اصلا آشنایی نداشتم هم به اندازه کافی جذاب و با جزئیات کامل نوشته شده بود.
September 5, 2023
Brilliant, amazing secular exposition of biblical history. In this the third volume of David Rohl's 'Test of Time', he sets out just to tell the complete story in a continuous and coherent manner. He does so brilliantly! Not all the specific evidence is presented here in detail because it has already been expanded upon in A Test of Time and Legend, it is just the narrative of the biblical peoples. So if you want the full structure of his argument and the evidence backing it you really have to read these volumes too. However if (but few will) you simply want the structure of events and can take the proof on trust, then this is all you need.
Everything hinges on Rohl's (and a few others) New Chronology. This decouples Pharaoh Shoshenq from biblical Pharaoh Shishak which is the actually the key synchronisation for much of ancient Egyptian chronology within academia, but as Rohl proves, it is based entirely on a miss conception. Thus with the New Chronology (which naturally enough the entrenched interests of academia have totally ignored), puts the archaeological record back in sync with the historical record encapsulated in the bible, but also reinforced by copious other ancient writings.
By no means is this an apologetic - it is very much a secular understanding rather than theological presentation of the events. However it makes me wonder how anyone can see such a coherent tale emerge without asking himself about the hand of providence in all this?? You won't find the miraculous in this story, or even the hand of providence directing things, but Rohl does sometimes where necessary come up with novel and interesting explanations for particular interventions from God.
The one area I think Rohl may need some revisionism of his own is the location of Mount Sinai. Rohl seems to go with the conventional understanding of Mount Sinai being in modern Sinai, but others have a convincingly as himself, put forward the argument for the Red Sea crossing into Saudi Arabia and Mount Sinai being thus located in the Moabite territory where the sequence of events makes most sense. So notwithstanding this question, Rohl still makes a profound contribution to understanding the ancient world and putting everything into its proper understanding. The bible is truly an astonishingly reliable historical record and that goes even without considering the spiritual aspect!
It would have been great to have a source annotated timeline for Egypt, Israel and Mesopotamia to go alongside the story, but difficult to do well in this small format paperbpack. As it is, the poor quality of the printing made the otherwise well considered images virtually useless. However these are production rather than actual material complaints.
Everything hinges on Rohl's (and a few others) New Chronology. This decouples Pharaoh Shoshenq from biblical Pharaoh Shishak which is the actually the key synchronisation for much of ancient Egyptian chronology within academia, but as Rohl proves, it is based entirely on a miss conception. Thus with the New Chronology (which naturally enough the entrenched interests of academia have totally ignored), puts the archaeological record back in sync with the historical record encapsulated in the bible, but also reinforced by copious other ancient writings.
By no means is this an apologetic - it is very much a secular understanding rather than theological presentation of the events. However it makes me wonder how anyone can see such a coherent tale emerge without asking himself about the hand of providence in all this?? You won't find the miraculous in this story, or even the hand of providence directing things, but Rohl does sometimes where necessary come up with novel and interesting explanations for particular interventions from God.
The one area I think Rohl may need some revisionism of his own is the location of Mount Sinai. Rohl seems to go with the conventional understanding of Mount Sinai being in modern Sinai, but others have a convincingly as himself, put forward the argument for the Red Sea crossing into Saudi Arabia and Mount Sinai being thus located in the Moabite territory where the sequence of events makes most sense. So notwithstanding this question, Rohl still makes a profound contribution to understanding the ancient world and putting everything into its proper understanding. The bible is truly an astonishingly reliable historical record and that goes even without considering the spiritual aspect!
It would have been great to have a source annotated timeline for Egypt, Israel and Mesopotamia to go alongside the story, but difficult to do well in this small format paperbpack. As it is, the poor quality of the printing made the otherwise well considered images virtually useless. However these are production rather than actual material complaints.
September 22, 2022
Always a good read from Rohl. Raced through this.
June 9, 2023
خواندني.
به آسوني خونده ميشه. مثل يك داستان قديمي جذاب و پركشش و خالي از شاخ و برگ هاي اضافه.
خيلي از موضوعات تاريخي و ريشه ملت ها و جنگ ها رو هم مشخص كرده.
به آسوني خونده ميشه. مثل يك داستان قديمي جذاب و پركشش و خالي از شاخ و برگ هاي اضافه.
خيلي از موضوعات تاريخي و ريشه ملت ها و جنگ ها رو هم مشخص كرده.
August 10, 2014
This is a great read for anyone interested in archeological "proof" of some of the mysteries of the Old Testament. Subjects include the search for the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, the Exodus of Moses and the Israelites from Egypt including the Parting of the Red Sea, King David's Ark of the Covenant, and the fabled Lost Tribes of Israel of the Babylonian Exile. Here is a studied, scientific look at the possibilities that succeeded in sharpening my interest in further O.T. studies. Just be aware that the jury is still out on many of the great Bible stories, which have yet to be confirmed by archeological clues or extra-biblical sources. Highly recommended.
October 25, 2012
This book was awesome and went through the history of the people of the bible from the very beginnings. It's a fascinating read using the new chronology, which is backed up with astronomical events and archaeology. It's not an easy read with all the information in it, but it is worth every minute spent reading. I think anyone who is interested in Biblical history or archaeology would find this book very interesting.
April 2, 2023
"From Eden to Exile" is an intriguing and well-researched book that challenges traditional views of ancient Near Eastern history. While some of Rohl's arguments may be controversial and debated among scholars, his interdisciplinary approach and willingness to challenge conventional wisdom make for a fascinating read. Whether you are an expert in ancient history or a general reader interested in the subject, this book is definitely worth checking out.
July 14, 2010
Rohl has it all, the Indiana Jones of the archaeologists and chronologists. I read this for research (while completing a story about Goliath) but while immersed I finally understood how so many ancient historians have got their dates wrong. I'm a New Chronology Convert! Recommended.
November 2, 2011
A really gruelling read for the layman. Only for those with a serious interest in the history of Christian religion.
May 24, 2012
Wonderful. I think the archeology community needs to be more open-minded about his New Chronology.
Read
January 20, 2018A great read, no doubt!
Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews