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Plato: Meno and Phaedo
Plato's Meno and Phaedo are two of the most important works of ancient western philosophy and continue to be studied around the world. The Meno is a seminal work of epistemology. The Phaedo is a key source for Platonic metaphysics and for Plato's conception of the human soul. Together they illustrate the birth of Platonic philosophy from Plato's reflections on Socrates' life and doctrines. This edition offers new and accessible translations of both works, together with a thorough introduction that explains the arguments of the two dialogues and their place in Plato's thought.
160 pages, Paperback
First published October 31, 2010
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Displaying 1 - 8 of 8 reviews
August 29, 2024
rip socrates
April 16, 2018
1+1: ‘For I find it astonishing that when each of them was apart from the other, each turned out to be one, and they weren’t two at that time, but when they came near each other, this supposedly became a cause of their coming to be two . . . ’
July 4, 2018
Meno and Phaedo is a prose written by one of the greatest ancient Athenian philosophers, Plato, who resumes the Socrates’ theologies. The written title is the two people who’s depicted to have the philosophical dialogue with Socrates discussing the ideas of epistemology and duality. One of the reasons Ancient Greek philosophy appealed to me is its reductionist approach in analysing profound ideas. Through the endeavour in defining the most fundamental ideas sets a bedrock in having a clearer understanding of modern circumstances. Meno and Phaedo could be read as an extremely easy philosophical work, but difficult and dense concurrently; as it depends on reader’s interpretation.
I hope to discuss this ancient masterpiece within the limit of my least intelligence. Plato wrote in his book many points and hypothesis, masterful and astonishing, but I’ll talk about it in just one of my narrowest perspective.
The essence of Socrates’ belief is the immortality of the soul(ψυχή).
“...not only do those opposites evidently not admit one another, but there are also all those things that are not opposites of one another, but always possess the opposites, and they too seem not to admit whatever form is opposed to the form inside them; instead, when it attacks, evidently they either perish or retreat...”
Soul and death are opposites as soul transcends infinity, purified by intellectual thinking and yet subdued by mortality; death is a separation where individuals leave the constraints of body and then reincarnate. Socrates sees soul as the purest form and performance of one self without interference of normal necessities to survive, such as passions and desires are impure which mortality brings. Soul and death, the opposites seamlessly guarded the innate law of nature, they come to be from one another, as the living come from the dead and the dead come from the living, but never admit one another as soul retreats when death approches.
And throughout the very core of Platonism is that the truest form of humanity, the origins of wisdom, are divine. Our acts of knowledge are only the momentary subtle presence of something much more wholesome and flawless, hindered by mortality. Virtue is the ‘proficiency at securing good things for oneself’, as Socrates defined. The proficiency is guided by true opinion which is itself recollection from the past life, from the soul, from immortality. Now, as for death, I’ll quote from Phaedo,
‘...All the rivers flow together into this chasm and flow out of it again. And each river comes to be like the kind of earth through which it flows. The cause of all the streams flowing out from here, and flowing inside, is that this liquid has no bare and no foundation. So it oscillates and surges back and forth, the air and the wind around the liquid do the same. For they follow along with the liquid, both when it rushes towards the other side of the earth and when it rushes towards our side. Just as, when animal breath, their breath is exhaled and inhaled in an unbroken flow, so too there the wind oscillated with the liquid and brings about formidable and unimaginable gales, both when the wind goes in and when it goes out.’
He envisaged even death, notorious for bearing as human’s bane and the curse of all living things, a shred of a harmonious universe inconceivable by the mere wit that’s so much flaunted in the arrogance of men. In the face of his own death, as when Hades arrived to claim his dear life, the more he could therefore overlook the triviality of imminent strife in the fading of an ego, and to embrace the assimilation into something greater, gracious, benevolent.
I hope to discuss this ancient masterpiece within the limit of my least intelligence. Plato wrote in his book many points and hypothesis, masterful and astonishing, but I’ll talk about it in just one of my narrowest perspective.
The essence of Socrates’ belief is the immortality of the soul(ψυχή).
“...not only do those opposites evidently not admit one another, but there are also all those things that are not opposites of one another, but always possess the opposites, and they too seem not to admit whatever form is opposed to the form inside them; instead, when it attacks, evidently they either perish or retreat...”
Soul and death are opposites as soul transcends infinity, purified by intellectual thinking and yet subdued by mortality; death is a separation where individuals leave the constraints of body and then reincarnate. Socrates sees soul as the purest form and performance of one self without interference of normal necessities to survive, such as passions and desires are impure which mortality brings. Soul and death, the opposites seamlessly guarded the innate law of nature, they come to be from one another, as the living come from the dead and the dead come from the living, but never admit one another as soul retreats when death approches.
And throughout the very core of Platonism is that the truest form of humanity, the origins of wisdom, are divine. Our acts of knowledge are only the momentary subtle presence of something much more wholesome and flawless, hindered by mortality. Virtue is the ‘proficiency at securing good things for oneself’, as Socrates defined. The proficiency is guided by true opinion which is itself recollection from the past life, from the soul, from immortality. Now, as for death, I’ll quote from Phaedo,
‘...All the rivers flow together into this chasm and flow out of it again. And each river comes to be like the kind of earth through which it flows. The cause of all the streams flowing out from here, and flowing inside, is that this liquid has no bare and no foundation. So it oscillates and surges back and forth, the air and the wind around the liquid do the same. For they follow along with the liquid, both when it rushes towards the other side of the earth and when it rushes towards our side. Just as, when animal breath, their breath is exhaled and inhaled in an unbroken flow, so too there the wind oscillated with the liquid and brings about formidable and unimaginable gales, both when the wind goes in and when it goes out.’
He envisaged even death, notorious for bearing as human’s bane and the curse of all living things, a shred of a harmonious universe inconceivable by the mere wit that’s so much flaunted in the arrogance of men. In the face of his own death, as when Hades arrived to claim his dear life, the more he could therefore overlook the triviality of imminent strife in the fading of an ego, and to embrace the assimilation into something greater, gracious, benevolent.
October 3, 2021
Personally, I find Meno (which is mostly about epistemology) really interesting but Phaedo (mostly on metaphysics and human soul) not as much.
It is argued that knowledge is pre-existing and universal already. The process of learning is an individual's process of acquiring/retrieving knowledge of the world. However, I think this is only restricted to priori truths, where knowledge is discovered. In other areas of knowledge, it might not be about the discovery of knowledge, but rather invention. In this case, the Theory of Recollection may be unable to hold its position.
Also, there's also this debate on what makes something teachable. Does teaching always require the presence of both parties of teachers and students? And, furthermore, putting this into a modern context, is the commodification of knowledge a boundary between what is teachable and not teachable?
"Knowledge is true belief bound down by reasoning out the cause."
"It’s precisely for this reason that knowledge is something more precious than correct opinion, and it’s being tied down that makes knowledge different from correct opinion."
It is argued that knowledge is pre-existing and universal already. The process of learning is an individual's process of acquiring/retrieving knowledge of the world. However, I think this is only restricted to priori truths, where knowledge is discovered. In other areas of knowledge, it might not be about the discovery of knowledge, but rather invention. In this case, the Theory of Recollection may be unable to hold its position.
Also, there's also this debate on what makes something teachable. Does teaching always require the presence of both parties of teachers and students? And, furthermore, putting this into a modern context, is the commodification of knowledge a boundary between what is teachable and not teachable?
"Knowledge is true belief bound down by reasoning out the cause."
"It’s precisely for this reason that knowledge is something more precious than correct opinion, and it’s being tied down that makes knowledge different from correct opinion."
August 2, 2023
Socrates my beloved
March 2, 2024
I miss those good old days when I had the leisure to buy a cup of coffee and amazed myself in Plato's world
Read
January 4, 2025Always relevant
April 16, 2014
Only read Phaedo, Meno is too simple.
Displaying 1 - 8 of 8 reviews