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When the Nines Roll Over: And Other Stories
In When the Nines Roll Over, David Benioff (The 25th Hour, City of Thieves) uses humor and rich characterizations to explore the sometimes thrilling, sometimes pathetic emotional lives of a diverse set of characters. Over the course of eight stories, we are introduced to a host of young people on the cusp of discovery and loss. As he evokes the various states of agony and pleasure—humiliation, rebellion, camaraderie, and desire—Benioff displays a profound understanding of the transformative power of a single moment and how sadness can be illuminated by a humorous flip side. When the Nines Roll Over confirms the promise of a gifted writer emerging as a storytelling force.
242 pages, Kindle Edition
Published October 25, 2005
186 people are currently reading
2146 people want to read
About the author
David Benioff
10 books2,065 followersDavid Benioff worked as a nightclub bouncer in San Francisco, a radio DJ in Wyoming and an English teacher/wrestling coach in Brooklyn before selling his first novel, The 25th Hour, in 2000.
He later wrote the screenplay for Spike Lee’s adaptation of 25th Hour starring Edward Norton and Phillip Seymour Hoffman. In 2005, Viking Press published Benioff’s collection of short stories, When the Nines Roll Over.
Benioff’s screenwriting credits include Troy (2004), directed by Wolfgang Petersen, and Stay (2005), directed by Marc Forster, The Kite Runner (2007). Jim Sheridan produced Benioff’s screenplay Brothers, and Hugh Jackman reprised his role as the clawed mutant in Benioff’s Wolverine. He is also screenwriter and executive producer of Game of Thrones, HBO's adaptation of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels.
Viking published his most recent novel, City of Thieves, in May 2008.
Benioff is married to actress Amanda Peet; the couple has three children.
He later wrote the screenplay for Spike Lee’s adaptation of 25th Hour starring Edward Norton and Phillip Seymour Hoffman. In 2005, Viking Press published Benioff’s collection of short stories, When the Nines Roll Over.
Benioff’s screenwriting credits include Troy (2004), directed by Wolfgang Petersen, and Stay (2005), directed by Marc Forster, The Kite Runner (2007). Jim Sheridan produced Benioff’s screenplay Brothers, and Hugh Jackman reprised his role as the clawed mutant in Benioff’s Wolverine. He is also screenwriter and executive producer of Game of Thrones, HBO's adaptation of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels.
Viking published his most recent novel, City of Thieves, in May 2008.
Benioff is married to actress Amanda Peet; the couple has three children.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 214 reviews
June 28, 2019
There are eight short stories in this small book, mainly set in New York City. Don't let the length fool you because these little guys are full of substance. All are unrelated to one another, mostly. But I'd also say they can be called related by the people that make up the stories. Each person in here has a need, or a want, whether it be for another, or a desire, or the greed inherent in life. Break them down, and in one form or another they are mostly about love, and that feels on par. The first three shorts were okay. I could go back to find why these three didn't strike me as the later ones did, but I don't think I'll need to.
The last half of this book is where Benioff gift for story-telling really shines. I recalled the sort of feelings when reading City of Thieves, at least in part. The plots were far different from that gem of a book, but still. In the fourth story, a man seeks the girl he'd known all of one day by accident, but after fourteen years, the memory of her returns as a constant. Is it real love, or seeking the memory of his glory days? Another story records the daily diary of a guy waiting it out in his backyard fallout shelter. Is he the smart one, or simply the fool? The final story becomes a one person viewpoint remembering his story of loss in the midst of the AIDS epidemic that's particularly poignant and also devastating. And there I found another link in these stories. The twist of an ending, or the change of the viewpoint offered to the reader. After considering, each story felt far more real and personal because of it.
The last half of this book is where Benioff gift for story-telling really shines. I recalled the sort of feelings when reading City of Thieves, at least in part. The plots were far different from that gem of a book, but still. In the fourth story, a man seeks the girl he'd known all of one day by accident, but after fourteen years, the memory of her returns as a constant. Is it real love, or seeking the memory of his glory days? Another story records the daily diary of a guy waiting it out in his backyard fallout shelter. Is he the smart one, or simply the fool? The final story becomes a one person viewpoint remembering his story of loss in the midst of the AIDS epidemic that's particularly poignant and also devastating. And there I found another link in these stories. The twist of an ending, or the change of the viewpoint offered to the reader. After considering, each story felt far more real and personal because of it.
May 19, 2015
Many know David Benioff as one half of the team that created the stellar Game of Thrones HBO series adaptation. And no problem, that show is awesome and it's one of the most impressive film adaptations I've seen of fiction. But I originally was a fan of Benioff's work as an author, with both of his fantastic novels (the New York crime drama The 25th Hour and the WWII coming of age adventure, City of Thieves) on my list of favorites! Now I've finally completed the author's short list of fiction work with this solid collection of short stories.
Each story is a slice of life tale, not featuring large moments of action, but instead focusing on each character at a critical turning point in their lives or at a time when they have to make the hard decisions. As usual, Benioff writes with a poetic ease and injects each story with a tangible atmosphere. One of my favorites in the collection was "De Composition," about a man struggling with his sanity after hunkering down in a survival bunker during the end of the world. I love how Benioff is intentionally vague with what is possibly a major reveal, leaving it up to the reader to interpret. Others I really enjoyed included "Garden of No," about a young waitress/wannabe actress in Hollywood about to hit her big break, and the heartbreaking final story, "Merde for Luck," that follows a gay couple in New York City as they struggle with AIDS during the mid-90's.
Each story is a slice of life tale, not featuring large moments of action, but instead focusing on each character at a critical turning point in their lives or at a time when they have to make the hard decisions. As usual, Benioff writes with a poetic ease and injects each story with a tangible atmosphere. One of my favorites in the collection was "De Composition," about a man struggling with his sanity after hunkering down in a survival bunker during the end of the world. I love how Benioff is intentionally vague with what is possibly a major reveal, leaving it up to the reader to interpret. Others I really enjoyed included "Garden of No," about a young waitress/wannabe actress in Hollywood about to hit her big break, and the heartbreaking final story, "Merde for Luck," that follows a gay couple in New York City as they struggle with AIDS during the mid-90's.
"So many die without our caring, decline to silence in rooms beyond hearing. We honor the dead and abhor the dying."As much as I love Game of Thrones, I hope that Benioff returns to write more awesome books; he's up there on my list with Scott B. Smith as being overdue for another great novel!
February 29, 2016
David Benioff is a master storyteller. After City of Thieves I wanted to read more. This is a fine, modern collection of short stories.
Five stars for the last one Merde for Luck.
Five stars for the last one Merde for Luck.
April 13, 2017
This is my first book of short stories and the only reason I picked it up was for a challenge. I chose David Benioff because he is the author of one of my favorite books, City of Thieves. I was so pleasantly surprised. I didn't think I would enjoy reading short stories but these were all fascinating. It is kind of a bummer when you're really enjoying certain characters and the story just ends, because Mr. Benioff can write some amazing characters. I loved every one of the stories in this book, but my favorite was The Devil Comes to Orekhovo.
July 17, 2013
Each story was a beautiful creation come to life, though some more than others. I read greedily for details and at times, felt it came much too easily. Characters remained lackluster, and I felt myself reading at the fast pace of the prose. Though this series of stories build scenes, the plots feel like I'm constantly trying to run and push the story to its conclusion; I'm forced to miss the roses growing in the corner of the scene for the sake of maintaining the story's movement.
That being said, each story brings a unique take, and the combination and order of each is enthralling. But unfortunately, I was never lost to the story - never forced to surrender, even at the most shocking and emotional moments. The modern style took over and left me feeling apathetic and detached.
That being said, each story brings a unique take, and the combination and order of each is enthralling. But unfortunately, I was never lost to the story - never forced to surrender, even at the most shocking and emotional moments. The modern style took over and left me feeling apathetic and detached.
July 1, 2009
interesting little glimpses into others' lives, one story reminds me of characters in city of thieves, glad i read it, the language is artistry, beautiful, but no beginnings and endings of plot- i still like resolutions.
favorite quote: "The bad days came like Churchill's black dogs; they paced the corridor outside my bedroom, raking the carpet with their claws."
favorite quote: "The bad days came like Churchill's black dogs; they paced the corridor outside my bedroom, raking the carpet with their claws."
February 9, 2021
The cream will rise to the top.”
“No,” said Tabachnik. “It won’t.” Whatever was floating on top, it wasn’t cream.”
There is no cream in this collection. I'm glad that I read City of Thieves first, because I wouldn't have bothered reading another book by the author of these stories.
“No,” said Tabachnik. “It won’t.” Whatever was floating on top, it wasn’t cream.”
There is no cream in this collection. I'm glad that I read City of Thieves first, because I wouldn't have bothered reading another book by the author of these stories.
April 1, 2018
Da leggere!
Non sono un'amante dei racconti perché le storie finiscono troppo presto senza che tu abbia tempo di affezionarti ai personaggi e tendo a rimuovere quel che ho letto dopo poche ore... in questo caso non è così: alcuni racconti ti entrano davvero dentro e sono diversissimi per stile e ambientazione l'uno dall'altro. Il voto complessivo direi che è 8,5, ma alcuni racconti meriterebbero un voto ben più alto.
Non sono un'amante dei racconti perché le storie finiscono troppo presto senza che tu abbia tempo di affezionarti ai personaggi e tendo a rimuovere quel che ho letto dopo poche ore... in questo caso non è così: alcuni racconti ti entrano davvero dentro e sono diversissimi per stile e ambientazione l'uno dall'altro. Il voto complessivo direi che è 8,5, ma alcuni racconti meriterebbero un voto ben più alto.
June 30, 2017
I am a big fan of Benioff’s writing. His book, City of Thieves, was easily in my top five books of 2016. I had been saving this collection of short stories so as not to deplete my Benioff supply and while I am pleased to have read these stories I am somewhat deflated that I nothing else of his left to read.
This collection of stories is eclectic. On the surface some of them are a little weird, but they are all profoundly personal and human. I think that is because Benioff is essentially writing about the could have beens, the what ifs, the fork in the road in the form of ordinary moments that can change the course of your entire life. And even if they don’t change your life, we all wonder about the ripple effects of our actions. There is an accessibility in Benioff’s stories because he is writing about the human condition and I love his writing style because it is spare and honest and broken down to essentials of what we feel and experience.
I am still carrying all of the stories in this collection with me, even the ones that didn’t sit comfortably with me. That is a testament to his skill as a writer that he can make the reader take that discomfort and let it dwell in you and think about it long after you have turned the last page.
I say read everything Benioff has written – you won’t be sorry!
This collection of stories is eclectic. On the surface some of them are a little weird, but they are all profoundly personal and human. I think that is because Benioff is essentially writing about the could have beens, the what ifs, the fork in the road in the form of ordinary moments that can change the course of your entire life. And even if they don’t change your life, we all wonder about the ripple effects of our actions. There is an accessibility in Benioff’s stories because he is writing about the human condition and I love his writing style because it is spare and honest and broken down to essentials of what we feel and experience.
I am still carrying all of the stories in this collection with me, even the ones that didn’t sit comfortably with me. That is a testament to his skill as a writer that he can make the reader take that discomfort and let it dwell in you and think about it long after you have turned the last page.
I say read everything Benioff has written – you won’t be sorry!
November 3, 2022
Second half is better than the first half idk why it just is
December 13, 2013
This is going to one of those reviews that's more of a placeholder in life than anything substantive about the actual book.
As I would like to with all short story collections, I would have liked to review each story individually. Also, I would have liked to read them in more coherent time-chunks so that even individual stories weren't jumbled up in my head. Instead, I moved into a new house! Three weeks (and counting) of lifting, buying, moving, unpacking and marveling at it all. I finally have my own study! and once I figure out which box my camera is in, I may post a picture of my little slice of heaven.
As I would like to with all short story collections, I would have liked to review each story individually. Also, I would have liked to read them in more coherent time-chunks so that even individual stories weren't jumbled up in my head. Instead, I moved into a new house! Three weeks (and counting) of lifting, buying, moving, unpacking and marveling at it all. I finally have my own study! and once I figure out which box my camera is in, I may post a picture of my little slice of heaven.
September 12, 2009
Okay this boy is some sort of genius wunderkind. First I read his last novel, one of my favorirte books of the year, City of Thieves. I'm still waiting for his first novel from the library so in the meantime I picked up this collection of short stories. Oh my. He captures people in such a real way. (By contrast, I had to put down Pat Conroy's latest because nothing about it felt genuine to me. And Pat Conroy is considered one of the greatest living writers.) The last story in the collection is a real doozy. When I was done I felt like my seat had fallen out of the bottom of an airplane.
June 1, 2018
I was hoping to love these stories as much as I enjoyed City of Thieves, but I just didn’t. I found them a little weird. I won’t buy a Benioff book without trying a sample first now, which is too bad because I thought he was my new go-to.
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April 23, 2023En la medida que avanza la lectura de los cuentos se convierte en más placentera la lectura de éstos.
January 27, 2020
I was sent this by a friend (enemy?). Reading it felt like seeing someone with superpowers use those powers for evil rather than good.
Benioff's stories are all told well enough. I followed what he was doing, the characters he was providing, etc. The problem is that he is constantly making his characters into objects of desire, sometimes in ways that are painfully tacky. A few of these scenes — there are several — read like they were written by someone in high school.
The one story that I liked most was The Devil Comes to Orekhovo. There was a disconnect reading a story about Russian characters written by an American, but it did capture some of the feel of other Russian literature that I've read, including some short stories.
Benioff's stories are all told well enough. I followed what he was doing, the characters he was providing, etc. The problem is that he is constantly making his characters into objects of desire, sometimes in ways that are painfully tacky. A few of these scenes — there are several — read like they were written by someone in high school.
The one story that I liked most was The Devil Comes to Orekhovo. There was a disconnect reading a story about Russian characters written by an American, but it did capture some of the feel of other Russian literature that I've read, including some short stories.
May 7, 2023
3.4 stars
My enjoyment of Benioff’s short story collection, When the Nines Roll Over and Other Stories (the Nines), was a bit mixed.
Some stories in this collection end with no clear resolution, before the character’s story has come to a proper endpoint. Some read as if they were meant to be prologues to longer, more fleshed out stories. “The Devil Comes to Orekhovo” and “The Barefoot Girl in Clover” definitely felt the most complete of all of the stories in the Nines.
My rankings of the stories range from around 4 stars for “The Devil Comes to Orekhovo”, “The Barefoot Girl in Clover”, and “De Composition”, to more of a 3-point-something for the rest. “Zoanthropy” would rank the highest of the 3-something stories.
My enjoyment of Benioff’s short story collection, When the Nines Roll Over and Other Stories (the Nines), was a bit mixed.
Some stories in this collection end with no clear resolution, before the character’s story has come to a proper endpoint. Some read as if they were meant to be prologues to longer, more fleshed out stories. “The Devil Comes to Orekhovo” and “The Barefoot Girl in Clover” definitely felt the most complete of all of the stories in the Nines.
My rankings of the stories range from around 4 stars for “The Devil Comes to Orekhovo”, “The Barefoot Girl in Clover”, and “De Composition”, to more of a 3-point-something for the rest. “Zoanthropy” would rank the highest of the 3-something stories.
December 30, 2024
I was way too high on the subway and the last chapter made me extremely emo and want to sob (in a good way) but distracted me from having a drug induced panic attack and we safely made it to see Sunset Blvd. starring Nicole Scherzinger who probably voted for Trump but put on the freakin show of her life. So I would recommend this book.
September 27, 2017
Le iba a dar tres estrellas, pero Merde como premio fue tan maravilloso. Aunado a eso, Des composición, 10/10. No sé. Me hizo sentir. A pesar de que hubo uno que me dejó completamente frío, en el mal sentido. Los otros me parecieron buenos, pero Merde y Des composición, dios mío.
December 2, 2018
I love David Benioff. He's such a great storyteller, and always makes me long to see them onscreen. My favorites in this collection are When the Nines Roll Over - respectively, and The Barefoot Girl in Clover. All of these stories are written beautifully. The Devil Comes to Orekhovo makes me think of Russian fairy tales, and I didn't want it to end when it did. If you enjoy good story collections that make you think outside the box, this is a great one for your reading list.
September 26, 2019
I can't believe they invented Japanese numbers!!
October 7, 2019
Ok, Game of Thrones final season aside, it's clear Benioff is a story teller. He has the ability to develop characters in a short amount of time. Though short, the stories are filled with sadness warmth, humor, nostalgia. You can read one at a time and come back to them every now and then or breeze through the whole book. Either way, you will leave each story feeling a certain way.
October 4, 2017
Bittersweet tales of life, death and everything in between. It's amazing how he captures life in it's true sense, especially the first story and the namesake of the book 'When the nines roll over'. Other favorite is the Devil comes to Orekhovo. The stories feel like a momentary glimpse into a persons life without much prior explanation and ends abruptly but leaves you brooding for a very long time.
November 27, 2017
I don't even want to praise Benioff anymore since he has such great success with his work on "Game of Thrones" but he is such a good fiction writer on top of that. I loved (LOVED) his novel "City of Thieves" that I read a few years back and this was also a fantastic collection.
The themes and plots these stories deal with are nothing special but Benioff's writing makes them that remarkable, I didn't want them to end. I can't even tell if it's just me or if everyone would enjoy his style this much but I think his style, the way how he evokes characters and the situations they are in I just find fantastic and so enjoyable to read.
I have been reading quite a few disappointing and underwhelming books lately so this was a well earned treat.
4.5*
My top 3:
3) Neversink
2) The Devil comes to Orekhovo
1) The Barefoot Girl in Clover
My least favorite which was still an interesting story:
De Composition
The themes and plots these stories deal with are nothing special but Benioff's writing makes them that remarkable, I didn't want them to end. I can't even tell if it's just me or if everyone would enjoy his style this much but I think his style, the way how he evokes characters and the situations they are in I just find fantastic and so enjoyable to read.
I have been reading quite a few disappointing and underwhelming books lately so this was a well earned treat.
4.5*
My top 3:
3) Neversink
2) The Devil comes to Orekhovo
1) The Barefoot Girl in Clover
My least favorite which was still an interesting story:
De Composition
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July 2, 2008Collection of short stories by one of my favorite writers. They have elements of magical realism, and gritty reality all rolled into one. A story about a lion loose in New York, another about a boy stealing his father's car and meeting a young girl along the way, and my favorite, about a gay couple struggling with AIDS and the plethora of medications they have to take. A little gem of a book.
February 3, 2017
Wunderbar beschriebene und dabei höchst unterschiedliche Charaktere in Kurzgeschichten, die zwar nett zu lesen sind, aber nicht sonderlich lange nachhaltig in Erinnerung verbleiben werden.
February 1, 2018
If I could adopt the writing style and ability of a writer out there, it would be someone like David Benioff. Benioff has a brisk, confident way of telling a story that engages me as a reader. Even if the scope of the stories collected here is quite small — focusing on various characters living in and around New York City — the stories arrest your attention from the first line all the way to the last. No need for spaceships and dark lords in this one. Benioff’s characters are everyday folks that tell stories that we can all relate to.
One of the chief criticisms of short stories, one that I do not share, is that there aren’t enough pages to relate to the characters or the story at hand. Some people say that it’s like travelling through a country on board a bullet train. Everything goes by so quickly that you hardly have time to stop and admire the view.
However, high-speed commutes are quite different from storytelling. Some stories are just not very long and work just fine as a 20-pager. The ones in this collection are just that: short, precise and to-the-point. A common thread runs through all the stories too, with all of them standing on the edge of potentially life-altering events. These are all moments we can closely relate to.
Aside from one story, I enjoyed all the rest in this super readable collection. Once again, Benioff has proven to be a great writer beyond just his work on television (he is one of two creators of Game of Thrones). My favourites from this collection include: The Devil Comes to Orekhovo, The Barefoot Girl in Clover, Neversink and Merde for Luck. Not so hot about Zoanthropy, though.
Highly recommended.
One of the chief criticisms of short stories, one that I do not share, is that there aren’t enough pages to relate to the characters or the story at hand. Some people say that it’s like travelling through a country on board a bullet train. Everything goes by so quickly that you hardly have time to stop and admire the view.
However, high-speed commutes are quite different from storytelling. Some stories are just not very long and work just fine as a 20-pager. The ones in this collection are just that: short, precise and to-the-point. A common thread runs through all the stories too, with all of them standing on the edge of potentially life-altering events. These are all moments we can closely relate to.
Aside from one story, I enjoyed all the rest in this super readable collection. Once again, Benioff has proven to be a great writer beyond just his work on television (he is one of two creators of Game of Thrones). My favourites from this collection include: The Devil Comes to Orekhovo, The Barefoot Girl in Clover, Neversink and Merde for Luck. Not so hot about Zoanthropy, though.
Highly recommended.
February 27, 2021
From the co creator of the TV series Game of Thrones comes an uneven short story collection which features single men and women in their teens and twenties. Each of the protagonists is facing an inflection point in his or her life. The author moves from run of the mill situations, a "star is born" remake in "Garden of No" to an outright science fiction piece " De Composition" where the protagonist has moved into a bomb shelter before a nuclear holocaust. (Maybe not so sci-fi!). I enjoyed "The Barefoot Girl in Clover" where a teenager steals a car and meets a cute girl with whom he spends some time and then tries to reconnect with her years later. However, my favorite is the final story, "Merde For Luck", a very poignant look at two gay men in the 1990's with some truly wonderful passages.
Benioff is clearly experimenting here and he succeeds for the most part. Some stories like the opener which is the title story and Zoanthropy, another futuristic one, do not resonate for me but all are worth reading.
Benioff is clearly experimenting here and he succeeds for the most part. Some stories like the opener which is the title story and Zoanthropy, another futuristic one, do not resonate for me but all are worth reading.
April 12, 2020
3.6 - When the nines roll over (6.5/10) is about a record label executive which was good but I’m confused about the title. I like Beniof’s style of writing which instantly makes you feel like you know the character really well and you root for him immediately.
The devil comes to orekhovo was good (7/10) and was similar to City of thieves.
Zoanthropy was weird (3/10), about lions loose in NYC.
Barefoot girl was good (6/10), about a young football player who meets a girl but does take his chance.
De Composition was weird too about a guy who builds a bunker
Garden of No was good (6 /10). About an actress who finally gets her break.
Neversink was just okay (4 /10), about a guy who meets a girl that makes up a whole fiction about her dead father.
Merde for luck was depressing (5/10), was about HIV.
The devil comes to orekhovo was good (7/10) and was similar to City of thieves.
Zoanthropy was weird (3/10), about lions loose in NYC.
Barefoot girl was good (6/10), about a young football player who meets a girl but does take his chance.
De Composition was weird too about a guy who builds a bunker
Garden of No was good (6 /10). About an actress who finally gets her break.
Neversink was just okay (4 /10), about a guy who meets a girl that makes up a whole fiction about her dead father.
Merde for luck was depressing (5/10), was about HIV.
June 6, 2024
I LOVED City of Thieves so not surprisingly I felt the strongest story in this collection by far was “The Devil Comes to Orekhovo” which details three young men at war. I felt like I was right there with them on their trek.
Unfortunately pretty much every other story in this collection didn’t have the same soul. Most of the characters felt overdone and caracateuristic, like the metal girlfriend in “When the Nines Roll Over” or Hector in “Merde for Luck”. The more subtle stories and interactions are where I found the most meaning.
I’d recommend just reading “Devil” online if you can find it, and skipping the rest of the collection. Whatever you do, you MUST pick up City of Thieves if you haven’t yet. Super underrated and one of my favorite fiction books of all time.
Unfortunately pretty much every other story in this collection didn’t have the same soul. Most of the characters felt overdone and caracateuristic, like the metal girlfriend in “When the Nines Roll Over” or Hector in “Merde for Luck”. The more subtle stories and interactions are where I found the most meaning.
I’d recommend just reading “Devil” online if you can find it, and skipping the rest of the collection. Whatever you do, you MUST pick up City of Thieves if you haven’t yet. Super underrated and one of my favorite fiction books of all time.
January 6, 2020
Short stories aren't usually my thing, but after finding out the David Benioff was the novelist behind the 25th Hour, I went and bought his other work.
Obviously some stories are stronger than others, but what struck me was Benioff's ability to create a world very quickly. There is a cinematic quality to the stories (which explains his career track). They are so descriptive that you can practically see the movie playing out in your head.
The last story, about a couple dealing with AIDS, was especially powerful. I immediately bought the book he cited as its inspiration - How We Die by Sherwin Nuland.
Obviously some stories are stronger than others, but what struck me was Benioff's ability to create a world very quickly. There is a cinematic quality to the stories (which explains his career track). They are so descriptive that you can practically see the movie playing out in your head.
The last story, about a couple dealing with AIDS, was especially powerful. I immediately bought the book he cited as its inspiration - How We Die by Sherwin Nuland.
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