The Agenda: Inside the Clinton White House

by Bob Woodward

Working behind the scenes for the 18 months following Bill Clinton's election, conducting hundreds of interviews with administration insiders & other key officials, & gaining access to confidential internal memos, diaries & meeting notes, Bob Woodward has discovered how the Clinton White House really works. Clinton's pledge for a new economic deal was the cornerstone of his 1992 campaign, & fulfilling it has been his central ambition & enterprise as president. By focusing on Clinton's efforts to pass a comprehensive economic recovery plan, Woodward takes us not only to the highest level meetings, the hard-fought debates & the most difficult decisions but also to the very hear of this presidency--& of this man. With its day-by-day, often minute-by-minute account, it's one of the most intimate portraits of a sitting president ever published. Clinton is shown as he debates, scolds, pleads, celebrates, & rages in anger & frustration. What emerges also is a group portrait of Clinton's innermost circle of advisers in action-- including his wife, Hillary; Vice President Al Gore; Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen & the economic team; George Stephanopoulos & David Gergen & the White House staff; James Carville, Paul Begala, & the other outside political strategists; Congressional leaders; & Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan. Using his proven research method--returning time & again to key sources & relying on the paper trail of internal documentation--Woodward has assembled an extensive archive of the early Clinton presidency. This microscopic examination of the Clintons & this administration, working under pressure on the nation's most important task, reveals the deep & still unsettled conflicts among Clinton's advisers & within himself. The questions about the federal deficit, health care, welfare reform, taxes, jobs, government spending, interest rates, the roles & responsibilities of the middle class, the wealthy, & the poor are of lasting importance. How they are being answered affects each person in the country.

Genres: Politics, History, Nonfiction, Biography, Presidents, Political Science, American History

352 pages, Hardcover

First published January 1, 1994

About the author

Librarian Note: There is more than one author by this name in the Goodreads database.

Robert "Bob" Upshur Woodward is an assistant managing editor of The Washington Post. While an investigative reporter for that newspaper, Woodward, working with fellow reporter Carl Bernstein, helped uncover the Watergate scandal that led to U.S. President Richard Nixon's resignation. Woodward has written 12 best-selling non-fiction books and has twice contributed reporting to efforts that collectively earned the Post and its National Reporting staff a Pulitzer Prize.

Reviews

[Edward Champion · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a decent overview of Clinton's first two years as President, but it is plagued by the usual "deep background" bullshit that leads one to be incredulous. Could Woodward have truly known what Bill and Hillary were talking about at an early morning hour? Given Clinton's fulminating altercations with Bob Kerrey, Woodward clearly only had one side of the story. And is it really accurate? If you can get beyond this -- and it is admittedly difficult, particularly given Woodward's hubris -- then you're in for a volume that shows just how out of his league Clinton was in trying to reduce the deficit, get a healthcare package passed, and appease the more progressive wing of the Democratic party. We see Clinton as someone who is intelligent, but easily prone to anger and easily ruffled by any affront to his ego. We see Clinton as someone who probably understood Congress and the Senate far more tenuously than Carter (whom Woodward compares him with). Clinton was nothing without Leon Panetta. And he was also too reckless in vetting his early Cabinet (many of whom would leave). Clinton rode into office as a "New Democrat" -- meaning a neoliberal who paid lip service to the underprivileged -- and even this utterly compromising stance was not enough for him to contend with plummeting approval ratings and feisty Representatives who knew how to hold their ground. Of course, we all know that Clinton would eventually strike a Faustian bargain with Dick Morris and sign the Welfare Reform Act into law. And a lot of the early signs of "victory by any vile compromise necessary" can be seen in here. Woodward has captured the FEEL of the Clinton White House, but is all this truly accurate?

[Henry Atkinson · Rating 3 out of 5]

Bob Woodward is the dean of the Washington press corps and he wrote The Agenda to look inside the first year or so of the Clinton administration. While his book is well-sourced and the characters are interesting, the book gets bogged down in budget minutiae and petty squabbles. It’s a decent look at the Clinton administration and its personalities, but it sometimes lacked the punch and flavor of other, stronger political biographies. Rating: 3.25/5

[Erik Graff · Rating 3 out of 5]

I didn't vote for Clinton, but still expected more from his administration than it delivered--national health care and a conservationist energy policy at best, an honorable international profile at least. This insider representation of the Clinton White House did not improve my opinion of the President, but it did heighten my impression of the Vice-President, Al Gore, betrayed by his boss and ineffectual as he was.

[Brandan · Rating 4 out of 5]

The Agenda is a look back on the first year of President Clinton's life in the White House as reported by Bob Woodward. Despite Woodward's role as a reporter and editor on The Washington Post since 1971, the style of writing he uses is that of a professional novelist. This is what adds on to the interest of The Agenda. With a “compulsive, Grisham-like” feel to the novel, Woodward manages to make signing a bill sound interesting (New York Times review of The Agenda).
The Agenda starts out with a governor wondering whether or not he has what it takes to be the President of the United States. His wife gives him encouragement, and decides to go for it. He is, of course, Bill Clinton. Despite the fact that we know what happens from there (even someone who lived under a rock could figure out what happens from there, the book is sub-titled “Inside the Clinton White House after all), Woodward sets up Bill & Hillary Clinton like brand new characters that we are eager to meet and get to know. He also takes us on his journey to the White House as well. We even experience Clinton's journey to the White House. The stress of campaigning, the fear of rejection, the drama of the race, Woodward brings us there with every vivid detail intact to the point where you forget you know that Clinton makes it as the President. Again, Woodward's brilliant writing style makes Clinton a real character that you care about and want to achieve his goals. Standard news reporters tend to make the target sound like an unidentifiable ruler, no different than any other previous ruler. Luckily, this is avoided by Woodward. Clinton is a real man. He, of course, does make it into office, and we are treated to more of the real-life drama that Clinton faced. Whether it be economic issues (the federal deficit in particular), civil rights, taxes, you name it, Woodward brings us through it all. It's also not even Clinton eyes that Woodward provides vision through. All of Clinton's economic team, chief of staff, senior policy adviser, counselor, consultants, senate, house of representatives, and of course, his Vice President Al Gore are featured, as well as then First Lady Hillary Clinton. Every perception on every social and economic plan is present and we really learn just how much blood, sweat, and tears go into making our country the way it is. From notes to memos to bills to plans, Clinton and his entire staff faced it dead on, whether it be Clinton's economic plan, health care, or even NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement, which he signed to help create jobs in America). Perhaps the one downfall of the novel is that it covers just the first year of Clinton's reign. Readers become so involved in Clinton's life (Woodward gives us some social life backrounds to the Clintons) that we are not ready to stop reading... We want more. Even non-political majors (I would consider myself in this category) fall under the novel's spell.
Early in the novel, it is established that Clinton should move away from “elitist social issues... and return to the themes of 'economic populism'” (Woodward, 13). At the time of the novel, 1992 at this point, economics were more important for the country. Some of the elitist social issues mentioned were discussed in great lengths in our class throughout the year. Among these issues were abortion and gay rights. When it came to abortion, many different scenarios were brought up and we were to decide where we fell on the political spectrum on the issue. The general consensus was that abortions should be legal, but the more conservative students said that they should only be opened to those who are truly in need. In the world today, abortion is a big issue for those in Christian faith, who feel that anything in a woman's womb is alive and has the right to live. Another of these issues has been about gay rights. Especially when President Obama recently showed his approval of gay marriage, both Washington and our own classroom began buzzing over the issue. Gay rights issues were also brought up when Obama repealed the “Don't Ask, Don't Tell” policy, allowing open homosexuals to serve in the military. This issue caused quite a controversy everywhere. In our class, we went back to the political spectrum, where most people in our class did not see any issues with gay rights, including marriage and serving in the military. However, these issues were the ones Clinton felt unnecessary to dwell on. Clinton was mostly focused on the economy, a very major issue in the world today. Our country is in great debt, and we are struggling to get back on our feet. Throughout the year, we have had many conversations on the economy and how to handle it better. We've discussed where to stop spending and where we should spend.
One of the great things about Woodward is that he does not show any type of bias. He has written works on both Democratic and Republican presidents, and he has not opened up on his political preference. In the simplest of terms, he is a journalist who reports the facts in an entertaining and often exciting way. In some ways, this can be a positive. You get the straight facts and won't face any bias facts that you can disagree with. But in some ways, that is a negative. You miss out on getting facts from a different perspective, which can be fresh and interesting. However, on this case, I praise Woodward for his non-bias writing style simply because it is not necessary in this type of literary work. This is a book about fact. The Agenda is very well written, and it certainly contains every fact you need from this most interesting one year time period. It's sure to satisfy any reader at any time.

[Ben Sweezy · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is eerie for both the contemporary familiarity of its themes (healthcare, stimulus, "the economy, stupid") the foreignness of other themes (long term real interest rates that are not negative, an obsession with the discussion being almost solely about a precise $$$ value of projected deficit reduction) and the omissions from the conversation (unemployment rate, number of jobs created, gdp growth, anything about the stock market).

This is no fault of woodwards--I imagine the difference in language/strategy was certainly accurate of the time. The stock market of 1993 touched many fewer American families then it did by 2000 or today. Long term interest rates are not today the bogeyman that they were in 1993...because they've managed to be (in real terms) so negligible. The fact that they've all but vanished from the insider vocabulary is a testament to how different today's macroeconomic (or at least monetary policy) picture is from 1993. And, perhaps shockingly, how much more stimulatory today's policy is.

The cast of characters is also largely familiar. So many former Clintonites remain in the public sphere that the reader of 2013 knows much more than Woodward of 1993 about some these characters--we know how Bill Clinton's presidency turns out, for one, but also the future careers of Hillary, Stephanopolous, the second lives of Gene Sperling, Larry Summers, Lew, Panetta, and others enrich the original story in retrospect. Oh, and Al Gore.

(One note/realization I had reading this was a series of misfortunes that befell Hillary Clinton during 1993 that have been forgotten in the mainstream retelling of her healthcare campaign. Multiple illnesses or deaths of family and friends certainly had an impact on her during this period. I'm not sure I've ever heard any discussion of these events when editorializing her attitude during this period.)

[Caroline · Rating 3 out of 5]

Only Bob Woodward can make a year's worth of economic planning seem like a thriller.

[Clem · Rating 5 out of 5]

“Read my lips: No new taxes!” – Vice-President George Bush, 1988

“It’s the economy, stupid.” – James Carville, 1992



Bob Woodward has quite the reputation of churning out books, usually focused on those that inhabit Washington D.C., at a fairly brisk base. Fortunately, he retains his journalistic integrity, and his work never suffers in terms of quality. Unlike some authors who may set out to write accounts of historical figures that encompass their entire lives and career, Woodward focuses on the everyday events around a high-profile figure within a much shorter duration. In this case, he’s writing about the first year of Bill Clinton’s presidency.

To trace the appeal of the Arkansas governor and his victory of 1992, we probably need to start with President Ronald Reagan, whose main accomplishment was aiding in the bankruptcy of the Soviet Union. A major accomplishment, but with it came an enormous price tag. It didn’t help when his “trickle-down economics” never trickled. Although we couldn’t see it at the time, he left his successor, George Bush, with a hefty tab that eventually came due. The prudent (but unfortunate) thing to do, would be to raise taxes, but pledging to do so won’t win any elections, so Bush made an unwise promise in 1988 that he couldn’t fulfill. 4 years later, enter Bill Clinton.

During the 1992 campaign, Clinton made promises about a plan to fix the economic mess. He outlined an agenda. He was a breath of fresh air. He capitalized when Bush ran a trainwreck of a reelection campaign. He won. All of the sudden, the country saw a lot of new, unfamiliar, well-scrubbed young faces in an around the oval office. Change was in the air.

Well, as Bill Clinton would soon learn, it’s easy to campaign with beautiful poetry, but when it comes to actually governing, one must use thought out prose instead. He quickly realizes he’s in way over his head and he simply can’t get a grip on this economic monster and tame it to where it will make the bulk of the constituents and lawmakers in D.C. happy. Running the country in Washington is a lot harder than running the state of Arkansas.

When author Bob Woodward walks us through the high-level events of Bill Clinton’s journey, and eventual occupancy, to the White House, this is a very engaging and informative narrative. This type of writing is present for about half of this book. The other half is tied a bit too tightly to the minutiae of governing. There are a ton of key capitol players to digest here including congressmen and women, cabinet members, campaign officials, policy experts, and of course Al Gore and Hillary. We’re allowed at the table of their many fiscal meetings, but we really wish we weren’t. There’s an awful lot of economic detail here, and sometimes I wonder if anyone other than someone with a PhD in economics can really understand all the financial bickering that goes on in all these meetings. Sadly, the solutions never seem to work or even agreed upon among all the key players. They have to go “back to the ol’ drawing board” over and over and over again.

You have to wonder if Bill Clinton had second thoughts about being elected president once he gets the job and realizes just how hard his promise is going to be to keep. Let’s remember that this is Washington DC, and there are tons of folks on the other side of the political fence that want him to fail. They’re not going to go out of their way to make his job any easier. We must also remember that 24-hour news on cable tv was just starting to gain popularity during this time, and a lot of these shows cared more about ratings than they did telling people the truth. So we see Clinton and company in high levels of frustration during many of these meetings. We learn that Bill Clinton can scream and curse.

Experts will disagree on whether or not Clinton ever succeeded. Yes, he “passed” his agenda, but not with the muster nor grandeur that he imagined. He seems to have whimpered passed the finish line where many of the masses just became tired of listening and thinking about it. This is probably true about the majority of political “victories” that are accomplished at the federal level, and to Bill Clinton’s credit, he did keep the momentum up and made significant dents and improvements during his second term.

Speaking of “second term”, none of that is here. This book is about Clinton’s first year only. A bit of a relief. How many accounts of Clinton’s presidency are littered with accounts of Whitewater, impeachment, and Monica Lewinsky? So the good news is that essentially all of that is absent. This book accomplishes what it sets out to do. It gives a good look at the Clinton administration surrounded by young, unfamiliar faces, and shows them plowing ahead in the face of adversity to try to change the country for the better. One wishes, though, that we had more of a high-level view and not so much down-in-the-weeds detail, but the book is not overwhelming in length and is a fairly easy read.

Bob Woodward’s books are usually rewarding, and this one is no exception.

[Chris Gleck]

This book is copyrighted 1994 and my paperback version was printed in 1995. This is only book I have read by Bob Woodward since All the President's Men, but I was attracted to purchase it used based on the reputation of his other books. It covers in great detail the budget bill of the first year of clinton's presidency. The budget is significant since it is how the agenda he ran on (hence, the title) gets implemented. The excruciating detail of how the sausage is made, including descriptions of individual meetings, made it tiresome at times. Overall, however, it was informative and an interesting contrast with The Power Game (see prior goodreads posting) which chronicled the Reagan presidency. I will recycle this old-style paperback.

[Jay Atwood · Rating 3 out of 5]

Woodward clearly did extensive research on the topic but it seems that virtually all the research came from interviews of persons within the Clinton White House. Where was the opposition perspective, the perspective of key Congressional Democrats, etc.? That side of things is completely ignored, as is Hillary's follow-up healthcare initiative (which was teased all throughout the book!) That said, this piece does give an excellent snapshot of how disorganized the Clinton White House was in the early years, with the political people & policy people constantly jockeying for position to whisper in the young President's ear.

[Jesse Young · Rating 4 out of 5]

One of the best peeks into the excitement and chaos of a President's first few months in office, confronting what it means to be a Democratic leader after 12 years of Republican rule. Detailed and full of gripes and complaints from all the participants, as you might expect. The focus here is solely on passage of Clinton's budget plan -- so everything else (The Oslo Accords and foreign policy more generally) is missing here. That narrow focus makes for a really satisfying read, as it avoids the ping-ponging schizophrenia that happens when a book tries to follow every issue and news story at once.

[Karen Levine · Rating 4 out of 5]

Classic Woodward.
Clinton’s political history from mid-1991 when he decided to run for President through early 1994, by which time he had passed both a budget focused on deficit reduction and NATFA, both hard-won victories that were very controversial among Democrats. The inside scoop on who said/thought what, including Lloyd Bentsen, Hillary, James Carville, Gene Sterling, Robert Rubin, Alan Greenspan.

[Graham Powell · Rating 4 out of 5]

Guy moves into the White House. He's a Washington outsider but his previous experience should equip him for what's to come. It doesn't. Result: Chaos behind closed doors! Sounds familiar but this is Clinton in the 90's. I'm a Brit and not too familiar with the way America is governed. But this is an interesting read and in fact my respect for Bill Clinton has risen a little - my respect for Hillary much more!

[Tom Schulte · Rating 4 out of 5]

The focus of this books it the role Paul Begala and other political consultants/advisors like James Carville had in the campaign and then the first term. With asides to the Hillary-led effort at health care reform, most attention is the basically Democrat-only policy that led to passage of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 with no real bipartisan cooperation.

[Jess · Rating 4 out of 5]

Woodward does such an excellent job at capturing the frustration felt by the Whitehouse during the time of Clinton's economic plan, I often had to put it down due to anger. This account shows how congress and the senate can work against a President pursuing their own self interest over the interest of a country. It shows what is wrong with the USA. Regardless of your political stripes, this should scare you and current events show it has only got worse.

[Cindy · Rating 3 out of 5]

Bow Woodward takes great liberty using dialogue in quotations and he should know a quote is a quote and can be verified. It reads more like a novel than a book of non-fiction.
It would appear Bill Clinton faced the same challenges, to a lesser degree, as President Trump. Nothing new under the sun.

[Brian · Rating 3 out of 5]

More like a 3.5. Entertaining for the most part despite the book being about an economic plan. The descriptions of the politics behind the scenes were fascinating. I came away with a positive impression of Bill.

[Vinny · Rating 3 out of 5]

Sure it’s Woodward quality but after reading him write about wars and the pandemic and all that I just couldn’t really get my heart into economic reform. I have Bill’s memoir to read soon and this was a good primer. Couldn’t say I knew much of anything about his presidency.

[Monzenn · Rating 4 out of 5]

A solid political book in the Woodward series. A bit more interesting for me as Clinton's first agenda turned out to be a lot of economics, which I am fond of. The politics bit was a tad too micro for me at times, but overall manageable still.

[Patricia · Rating 5 out of 5]

Interesting and enlightening. Review to come.

[Benjy · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is incredibly relevant today as it depicts the equivalent time period we're in now in the Obama administration only with the last Democratic administration. It's fascinating to see the difference in the political environment between the two, but also the parallels. Both White Houses were dealing with a recession and the economy as their top areas of concern, but Congress was so divided then and Clinton so much less popular that he had a much harder time getting anything passed. At the time this book was seen as a big embarrassment for Clinton, and it definitely doesn't shy away from portraying his faults, most notably his hesitation in making big decisions. But reading it now, it seems like a tremendously supportive work that pushed back against Clinton's subsequent image in some liberal circles as a right-wing sellout. In the first chapters of this book you'll see the cabinet fighting tooth and nail just to get things passed like a $16 billion stimulus plan (yes, you read that number right) and the Democrats in Congress were almost as conservative as the Republicans on economic issues. And this is before the GOP took over in 1994. Obama, with 59 much more progressive senators, complete Democratic dominance in the House, and a much larger mandate than Clinton thanks to his blowout election victory, is operating in an extremely different setting. Reading this, I can't help but be excited about the first Woodward book to come out on the Obama administration on pure entertainment grounds alone -- it's extremely well written and paced.

[Brett · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book details Bill Clinton’s efforts to get a budget passed in 1993, his first year in office. The book was written in 1994, so it’s interesting to read a contemporaneous account of a historical period. I enjoyed reading it and seeing how the process worked and how both Congressman and Senators make deals and sacrifice this for that and prioritize what they’re willing to fight for. It was frustrating to read how watered down legislation can get, just so something gets passed. It was interesting to read how Al Gore wanted an energy tax that would help curb carbon emissions but that was sacrificed as part of the negotiations. And here we are, 16 years later, still worrying about carbon emissions and whether we should do something about them. Although at one point in the book it’s mentioned that Clinton wouldn’t be able to balance the budget, even if he had a second term in office. Yet at the end of eight years he actually left office with a budget surplus!

[Takaharu Saito · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book describes how the budget and tax package in 1993 went through the houses. The negotiations defeated Clinton's idea of expenditure expansion and Gore's of environmental regulations. The book made it easy to understand the power relationship of the president and the houses.

[Paul · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is an excellent look at the inner workings of the Clinton team during its presidential run in 1992 and its first year in office in 1993. Focusing mostly on the economic debate going on within the administration and between the White House and Congress, it portrays a disorganized, frantic process which nonetheless culminates in legislative victory for Clinton. Though written in 1994, Woodward's thorough research (based mostly on interviews and White House documents made available to him at the time) and exceptional writing skills make this an excellent read even in 2009, as one can see certain parallels between what Clinton tried to accomplish then and what President Obama is working on now. If you're a political junkie or want to learn more about the Clinton Administration before the media focused on nothing but the scandals, this is a great place to start.

[Rusty Henrichsen · Rating 4 out of 5]

A look at the poorly organized Clinton White House in the early days of his administration. Since Woodward is part of the establishment media which some folks accuse of only publishing wonderful things and whitewashing the problems of the Democrats, one would expect this to be a cheerleading book. Well, it's not! Woodward describes Clinton as wanting to engage in endless debates and being slow to make a decision - this was quite frustrating to many of his aides with Washington experience. He is also pictured as having fits of temper - yelling, screaming, accusing, etc. Sometimes action was only taken after Hillary stepped in and made assignments and threw out some of the most ridiculous arguments. Maybe it's a good thing that we got a "two-fer".

I guess it really describes Clinton's early education of how Washington works (or doesn't).

[LINDA · Rating 3 out of 5]

I found this book in a second hand store in summer of 2016. I thought it might give me some insight into operations in the White House, should Hillary Clinton be elected. I found the detailed narrative interesting and was struck by a couple things -- the intelligence and political thoughtfulness of Bill Clinton, the disorganization among his closest advisors and Cabinet and the boldness of Hillary. It is more than a little disheartening to learn how legislation gets mutated enroute to enactment. It was also interesting to see how unknown players can have a significant effect as parties vie for votes.

I do take some comfort from the certainty that Hillary surely must have learned alot about what NOT to do as she encamps in the White House and sets up her advisory system.

[Kelli · Rating 2 out of 5]

This book gave me appreciation for the intense effort of Bill Clinton to balance the budget. He was the first president since LBJ to balance the budget. Some bad language. I did, however, learn that Clinton has an intense anger management problem, often exploding on his staff. He also has a kaleidoscope way of seeing all aspects of an issue, firmly believing in both and all sides. This is confusing to me and makes me ask, 'where are his principles?' Bush II, in contrast, seems to be a man of principle but is an obvious simpleton. I guess a happy medium between compromise and principles is the answer. Any comments?

[Jeff · Rating 3 out of 5]

This in my estimation is the best of the Bob Woodward "Inside the White House" books. The Agenda strikes me as very even-handed, usually Woodward books are used by one set of subjects (those who talked to Woodward and as a result come off looking good) to settle scores against others (those who snubbed Woodward), that seems not to have happened here. I also have to admit that it pleases me greatly that the people within the Clinton White House that I had a soft-spot for (Leon Panetta, George Stephanopoulos, and a few others) come out largely unscathed and the most contemptible of the bunch (David Gergen comes readily to mind) are shown to be fatuous dolts.

[Jonah · Rating 2 out of 5]

dug this book out of the stacks to learn something about these clintonite characters coming to washington...and for that its great - Hillary, Leon, theyre all here. this book is also instruction as to how not to organize a presidential transition and enter the first year of your first term.

but...once you get through about a quarter of it, you get the idea! the rest is just the same budget battles fought again and again. also, what happen to foreign policy? like a disaster called "Somalia"?

a good character sketch of Bill Clinton - useful for comparison against his successors.

[Leckerlingj13 · Rating 4 out of 5]

A solid, if not spectacular, account of the campaign and early days of the Clinton presidency. Books like this give a much needed depiction of the modern day realities of our legislative process, offering a glimpse of the wheeling, dealing, and politicking necessary to pass even relatively small reforms. Moreover, it was fascinating to find so many names and characters involved in this Clinton presidency who are now working to elect another. Very glad to have read this, even if it took me a few months.

[Jerry Landry · Rating 4 out of 5]

Really good overview of the battle for the Clinton economic plan in the first year of his administration. Amazing detail and narrative. At times, it could be dry and dense, but it was worth it to keep plowing through to get the whole story. This book is especially relevant now that the deficit is an even greater problem than Clinton ever had to face.