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Guardians of the Flame #1
The Sleeping Dragon
READING CREASES ON SPINE. MINOR WEAR ON EDGES OF COVERS. NO WRITING OR MARKS ON THE PAGES.
253 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published January 1, 1983
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3075 people want to read
About the author
Joel Rosenberg
84 books235 followersLibrarian Note: There is more than one author in the Goodreads database with this name.
Note: This is a different person than the political/thriller author, Joel C. Rosenberg
Joel Rosenberg was the author of the bestselling Guardians of the Flame books as well as the D'Shai and Keepers of the Hidden Ways series. He made his home in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Note: This is a different person than the political/thriller author, Joel C. Rosenberg
Joel Rosenberg was the author of the bestselling Guardians of the Flame books as well as the D'Shai and Keepers of the Hidden Ways series. He made his home in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
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August 16, 2017
The Sleeping Dragon had been one of my favourite fantasy novels as a kid. It's portal fantasy in the classic sense, with a small group of role playing gamers in our world suddenly finding themselves in a strange land that mirrors that of their game.
When it comes to fantasy novels, rereading one's early favourites tends to bring about mixed feelings: the nostalgia of revisiting beloved characters offset by a sense of the writing feeling dated. That wasn't the case with The Sleeping Dragon, at least not in terms of questioning the writing.
Joel Rosenberg had a wonderfully fluid style that ages incredibly well. I never felt as if his prose was over-the-top or out-of-date. Were he alive today, I imagine he could deliver some great Grimdark novels. He was also a writer who was unabashedly willing to put theme at the centre of his books. The Sleeping Dragon is about freedom, and that nebulous concept is made concrete in many different ways, from exposing how most traditional fantasy worlds involve slavery – sometimes slavery that's hidden beneath euphemistic language and concepts – to the idea that being free isn't the same thing as never having to make lifelong choices.
I think this is what I loved best about the novel: Rosenberg made every character and every scene into an exploration of conflicting notions of freedom, and he does this without ever breaking the flow of a fast-paced and entertaining fantasy novel.
Now, onto the aspect that gives me mixed feelings, or at least, needs consideration. Sexual violence and gender roles feature prominently in the book, and Rosenberg presents these in a way that is simultaneously self-conscious and yet I suspect will truly frustrate many modern readers. In one scene he'll show us the hypocrisy of the way in which one of his male characters views the woman he desires as if she's some challenge to be met or reward to be won. Rosenberg hits this point really hard and I still remember how, as a kid, it made me think twice about the way I and my friends talked about girls we were attracted to.
However Rosenberg writes unquestionably through the gaze of his male characters, viewing rape as deplorable towards women, yet something that his male heroes are the ones to deal with, giving them the moral obligation to address by finding and killing the perpetrators. It's not an uncommon or even a negative sentiment, but never are we let into the viewpoint of the female characters nor are they given agency on this or other issues.
There's a hypocrisy in me bringing this up, since my own Greatcoats series is told entirely from the viewpoint of one male character, and so this same phenomenon carries through in my own books. I think, however, that I owe Rosenberg a debt, because it was my memories of reading The Sleeping Dragon long before I ever started writing that showed me the importance of problematizing that distinctly androcentric viewpoint and to expose through other characters that the protagonist's view is both incomplete and distorted.
I hesitate to even mention these things because, well, I simply lack the knowledge to give full and appropriate context to these problems. However I thought just ignoring them wouldn't be right either.
I'll leave it this way: The Sleeping Dragon is one of my favourite books from the 1980's, one that had far more thematic resonance for me than most fantasy novels, and one whose author was willing to address gender issues within the genre even if the book itself still contained many of those problems.
When it comes to fantasy novels, rereading one's early favourites tends to bring about mixed feelings: the nostalgia of revisiting beloved characters offset by a sense of the writing feeling dated. That wasn't the case with The Sleeping Dragon, at least not in terms of questioning the writing.
Joel Rosenberg had a wonderfully fluid style that ages incredibly well. I never felt as if his prose was over-the-top or out-of-date. Were he alive today, I imagine he could deliver some great Grimdark novels. He was also a writer who was unabashedly willing to put theme at the centre of his books. The Sleeping Dragon is about freedom, and that nebulous concept is made concrete in many different ways, from exposing how most traditional fantasy worlds involve slavery – sometimes slavery that's hidden beneath euphemistic language and concepts – to the idea that being free isn't the same thing as never having to make lifelong choices.
I think this is what I loved best about the novel: Rosenberg made every character and every scene into an exploration of conflicting notions of freedom, and he does this without ever breaking the flow of a fast-paced and entertaining fantasy novel.
Now, onto the aspect that gives me mixed feelings, or at least, needs consideration. Sexual violence and gender roles feature prominently in the book, and Rosenberg presents these in a way that is simultaneously self-conscious and yet I suspect will truly frustrate many modern readers. In one scene he'll show us the hypocrisy of the way in which one of his male characters views the woman he desires as if she's some challenge to be met or reward to be won. Rosenberg hits this point really hard and I still remember how, as a kid, it made me think twice about the way I and my friends talked about girls we were attracted to.
However Rosenberg writes unquestionably through the gaze of his male characters, viewing rape as deplorable towards women, yet something that his male heroes are the ones to deal with, giving them the moral obligation to address by finding and killing the perpetrators. It's not an uncommon or even a negative sentiment, but never are we let into the viewpoint of the female characters nor are they given agency on this or other issues.
There's a hypocrisy in me bringing this up, since my own Greatcoats series is told entirely from the viewpoint of one male character, and so this same phenomenon carries through in my own books. I think, however, that I owe Rosenberg a debt, because it was my memories of reading The Sleeping Dragon long before I ever started writing that showed me the importance of problematizing that distinctly androcentric viewpoint and to expose through other characters that the protagonist's view is both incomplete and distorted.
I hesitate to even mention these things because, well, I simply lack the knowledge to give full and appropriate context to these problems. However I thought just ignoring them wouldn't be right either.
I'll leave it this way: The Sleeping Dragon is one of my favourite books from the 1980's, one that had far more thematic resonance for me than most fantasy novels, and one whose author was willing to address gender issues within the genre even if the book itself still contained many of those problems.
January 25, 2013
CONCEPT: A group of gamers are whisked off to an RPG world. After almost slaying each other as their new personalities take over, the group sets out to find a means of returning back to their homeworld at a place known as the Gate Between Worlds. (Holds promise and attraction to gamers in seeing how these fish out of water types react in their new setting.)
MARKETING APPEAL: described below.
SCORING: Superb (A), Excellent (A-), Very good (B+), Good (B) Fairly Good (B-) Above Average (C+), Mediocre (C ), Barely Passable (C-) Pretty Bad (D+), Dismal (D), Waste of Time (D-), Into the Trash (F)
DIALOGUE: B+/B/C+/C (varies) (B-) STRUCTURE: B+ HISTORY SETTING: C- CHARACTERS: A-/B+/C+ (B) EVIL SETUP/ANTAGONISTS: B+ EMOTIONAL IMPACT: B+ SURPRISES: A- MONSTERS: C+ PACING: A- LITTLE THINGS: B OVERALL STYLE: B FLOW OF WORDS: B+ CHOICE OF FOCUS: B TRANSITIONS/FLASHBACKS/POV: A- COMPLEXITY OF WORDS/SYMBOLISM/THEMES: C
OVERALL GRADE: B (gamers/ B- (nongamers)
DIALOGUE: This ranged from spotty to good. Some of the minor characters sounded alike and it was hard to tell the two thieves apart in the beginning. That may have been why one was killed off. Nobody stands out greatly but overall, it's a good job. They're all middle class college students so their speech patterns don't overlap that much. Probably the best one is the dwarf guy, who has a bit more of his own personality, whereas Karl and Walter do sound alike at times. I must say that everyone has different motivations and that shows but at certain points, some of the dialogue crisscrosses. One way that Rosenberg calls less attention to his similar dialogue passages is through a great deal of interparty conflict. The speakers are passable enough to tell them apart and then when we focus on the fact that they might kill each other and read their inner thoughts, we forget.
MONSTERS: I can't really give this much of a score since it was all taken from a homogenous AD&D setting. Outside of AD&D abilities, like night vision and beserking, we learned little of the culture of various creatures. Probably glossed over since Rosenberg figured that most of his readers would be gamers from the AD&D setting. Still, detailing the different species would have been helpful to nongamers and for readers seeking out some type of context to the setting.
EVIL SETUP: No real big foe. It was more a series of small obstacles. This could very well be a letdown for readers used to a big climax. Have to agree. However, check out the characters. While there was no great threat, the antagonists, at first, were the players themselves. See below (or above).
SETTING: Again, this area was skipped over except to place components in the story that helped the heroes achieve their goal (i.e. a library with a map to locate the Gate Between the Worlds, the arena to get cash together for the trek, etc). The issues of slavery were done well though but this ties more into the theme and characterization matters.
PACING: This story moves very well. Right off the bat, the group is heading for the gateway to get back to their own world. And, everything they do is pretty much to get supplies or means to get up there in the first place. One reason I didn't give it a better score than a B+ is because there wasn't a great need for the group to get to the gateway. Basically, they just wanted to get back home but half of them were dissatisfied with home so they were torn. Moreover, since you need to love the characters before you feel the suspense, it wasn't done as well as it could have been (see above). While I cared for the a couple of the characters (Karl and the dwarf), the rest were just icing on the cake with bits of character here and there. Finally, no one was chasing them and there wasn't a deadline so if they got slowed down it didn't end the mission.
SURPRISES: There actually were a good deal of surprises in this story. Obviously, being whisked off and learning to adjust to the new world was a big set of surprises in its own regard.
CHARACTERS: First off, this heading has some good points and some bad points on the characters. First, the good stuff: Rosenberg does an excellent job of internalizing the sudden problems with a RPG player becoming his character. In a sense, there is a test of wills. There are several times when some of the players turn into their characters, which creates problems. (REST CUT B/C OF SPOILERS)
CONCEPT: This is an enticing idea and I believe that Rosenberg was the first author to adapt it well. Just about every gamer has wondered at one point what it would be like to be like the character he created. And, most gamers tend to get attached to their characters as if they were their children. This has a keen attraction to gaming types but I have to admit, that fantasy readers, who don't RPG, and first time readers interested in fantasy would find themselves disappointed. See, there are a number of issues in this story that only gamers would appreciate. For instance, trying to get a bunch of people, who are used to being independent, to work together and hammering out the personality differences. Understanding the gaming system and dice as it's explained in the beginning. Watching how a group of players combat their character personalities and bicker with one another as they try to adjust to these new circumstances.
FLAWS: First off, some of the writing was too simple for my tastes. More detail on the setting would have been helpful, although I suppose the author could counter there was little to know since it was a new world. Non gamer types probably wouldn't like this book, b/c of the nuances I described in another section. As already elaborated upon, some of the supporting cast were mediocre at times. I would have liked to have known more about them even if it meant a 100 extra pages. There were a few parts where Rosenberg glossed over
GRADE REASON: I am giving this a solid B. Partly because I'm a long time gamer and see the nuances in this storyline that only gamers would understand, and because I appreciate the challenges in writing such a story. I think I can excuse the lack of monster and historical settings, since this is based on an RPGing game which is known more for the goal and treasure and hack and slash than details. Well, most of them. Although it's much more sparse than typical fantasy books which number 600 pages and over, I found it to be an interesting book. Again, there was a mix of the medieval thinking with the 20th century thinking. I had to keep remind myself that the reason they talked like Americans in speech and actions was because they were americans. Major kudos to doing a fine job with a few of the characters, even though some of the others aren't detailed well enough. The whole idea of this fish out of water storyline and the adjustments made by the players are interesting. Moreover, the interparty conflict gives it a lot of texture and in the process, reveals the characters. One other thing I found interesting is the typical gamer stance of might makes right. There were several times when some of the players were getting ready to kick someone's butt or intimidate just because they were ticked off. Typical gamer philosophy and something to chuckle over. But again, you don't see that unless you are a gamer.
MARKETING APPEAL: described below.
SCORING: Superb (A), Excellent (A-), Very good (B+), Good (B) Fairly Good (B-) Above Average (C+), Mediocre (C ), Barely Passable (C-) Pretty Bad (D+), Dismal (D), Waste of Time (D-), Into the Trash (F)
DIALOGUE: B+/B/C+/C (varies) (B-) STRUCTURE: B+ HISTORY SETTING: C- CHARACTERS: A-/B+/C+ (B) EVIL SETUP/ANTAGONISTS: B+ EMOTIONAL IMPACT: B+ SURPRISES: A- MONSTERS: C+ PACING: A- LITTLE THINGS: B OVERALL STYLE: B FLOW OF WORDS: B+ CHOICE OF FOCUS: B TRANSITIONS/FLASHBACKS/POV: A- COMPLEXITY OF WORDS/SYMBOLISM/THEMES: C
OVERALL GRADE: B (gamers/ B- (nongamers)
DIALOGUE: This ranged from spotty to good. Some of the minor characters sounded alike and it was hard to tell the two thieves apart in the beginning. That may have been why one was killed off. Nobody stands out greatly but overall, it's a good job. They're all middle class college students so their speech patterns don't overlap that much. Probably the best one is the dwarf guy, who has a bit more of his own personality, whereas Karl and Walter do sound alike at times. I must say that everyone has different motivations and that shows but at certain points, some of the dialogue crisscrosses. One way that Rosenberg calls less attention to his similar dialogue passages is through a great deal of interparty conflict. The speakers are passable enough to tell them apart and then when we focus on the fact that they might kill each other and read their inner thoughts, we forget.
MONSTERS: I can't really give this much of a score since it was all taken from a homogenous AD&D setting. Outside of AD&D abilities, like night vision and beserking, we learned little of the culture of various creatures. Probably glossed over since Rosenberg figured that most of his readers would be gamers from the AD&D setting. Still, detailing the different species would have been helpful to nongamers and for readers seeking out some type of context to the setting.
EVIL SETUP: No real big foe. It was more a series of small obstacles. This could very well be a letdown for readers used to a big climax. Have to agree. However, check out the characters. While there was no great threat, the antagonists, at first, were the players themselves. See below (or above).
SETTING: Again, this area was skipped over except to place components in the story that helped the heroes achieve their goal (i.e. a library with a map to locate the Gate Between the Worlds, the arena to get cash together for the trek, etc). The issues of slavery were done well though but this ties more into the theme and characterization matters.
PACING: This story moves very well. Right off the bat, the group is heading for the gateway to get back to their own world. And, everything they do is pretty much to get supplies or means to get up there in the first place. One reason I didn't give it a better score than a B+ is because there wasn't a great need for the group to get to the gateway. Basically, they just wanted to get back home but half of them were dissatisfied with home so they were torn. Moreover, since you need to love the characters before you feel the suspense, it wasn't done as well as it could have been (see above). While I cared for the a couple of the characters (Karl and the dwarf), the rest were just icing on the cake with bits of character here and there. Finally, no one was chasing them and there wasn't a deadline so if they got slowed down it didn't end the mission.
SURPRISES: There actually were a good deal of surprises in this story. Obviously, being whisked off and learning to adjust to the new world was a big set of surprises in its own regard.
CHARACTERS: First off, this heading has some good points and some bad points on the characters. First, the good stuff: Rosenberg does an excellent job of internalizing the sudden problems with a RPG player becoming his character. In a sense, there is a test of wills. There are several times when some of the players turn into their characters, which creates problems. (REST CUT B/C OF SPOILERS)
CONCEPT: This is an enticing idea and I believe that Rosenberg was the first author to adapt it well. Just about every gamer has wondered at one point what it would be like to be like the character he created. And, most gamers tend to get attached to their characters as if they were their children. This has a keen attraction to gaming types but I have to admit, that fantasy readers, who don't RPG, and first time readers interested in fantasy would find themselves disappointed. See, there are a number of issues in this story that only gamers would appreciate. For instance, trying to get a bunch of people, who are used to being independent, to work together and hammering out the personality differences. Understanding the gaming system and dice as it's explained in the beginning. Watching how a group of players combat their character personalities and bicker with one another as they try to adjust to these new circumstances.
FLAWS: First off, some of the writing was too simple for my tastes. More detail on the setting would have been helpful, although I suppose the author could counter there was little to know since it was a new world. Non gamer types probably wouldn't like this book, b/c of the nuances I described in another section. As already elaborated upon, some of the supporting cast were mediocre at times. I would have liked to have known more about them even if it meant a 100 extra pages. There were a few parts where Rosenberg glossed over
GRADE REASON: I am giving this a solid B. Partly because I'm a long time gamer and see the nuances in this storyline that only gamers would understand, and because I appreciate the challenges in writing such a story. I think I can excuse the lack of monster and historical settings, since this is based on an RPGing game which is known more for the goal and treasure and hack and slash than details. Well, most of them. Although it's much more sparse than typical fantasy books which number 600 pages and over, I found it to be an interesting book. Again, there was a mix of the medieval thinking with the 20th century thinking. I had to keep remind myself that the reason they talked like Americans in speech and actions was because they were americans. Major kudos to doing a fine job with a few of the characters, even though some of the others aren't detailed well enough. The whole idea of this fish out of water storyline and the adjustments made by the players are interesting. Moreover, the interparty conflict gives it a lot of texture and in the process, reveals the characters. One other thing I found interesting is the typical gamer stance of might makes right. There were several times when some of the players were getting ready to kick someone's butt or intimidate just because they were ticked off. Typical gamer philosophy and something to chuckle over. But again, you don't see that unless you are a gamer.
August 19, 2017
Ahoy there me mateys! I was trying to figure out what to read when I saw this old school cover in the hold . . .
The First Mate and his siblings fondly remember this series from childhood. And well I am an easy mark for all dragon-related things. So I gave this a shot. And I had very, very mixed thoughts. Be forewarned, unlike me usual posts, there are spoilers at the end because of a need to rant. Continue at yer own peril . . .
The book is set up in five parts:
The Student Union
Lundeyll
Pandathaway
Bremon
And Beyond
“The Student Union” starts out with a group of college age kids who play table-top role playing games in a club. I was never into that kinda gaming so it took me a bit to get into the novel. But of course the players end up transported into the game world which is actually an alternate magical universe. While the characters are rather stereotypical, I did find the students’ entrance and introduction to “Lundeyll” to be comical. From accidentally destroying their supplies, to having split personalities while coming to terms with the mingling of their real and character memories, the beginning of the magical adventure made me happy. Plus there were a few unexpected surprises.
The third part when they are journeying to the great city of “Pandathaway” is where the story started to go off track slightly. This is where the love interest plotlines start to really kick in. While the good news is that women in this 1983 novel can and do choose to sleep with multiple sexual partners if they want to, the men sulk like whiny babies and get all macho and protective and annoying. It was a glimpse of things to come. However I did like the wonderful library in the city and Doria haggling in the market and we get to meet our first dragon. Arrrr! I loved the silly dragon and its use in the city. Made me laugh that the dragon in the book is described as brown with red glowing eyes. Doesn’t match the cover at all.
After an extremely unexciting tournament (how can sword fighting be boring!) the group heads towards “Bremon” and the book enjoyment soured. Why ye ask? Because 1) it is just wandering with no real seeming purpose and more importantly 2) rape becomes a plot point. The strong men sit in a wagon and listen to the women being raped for hours. While it is certainly not graphic in the telling, it is completely irrelevant to the story and exists only to make the men feel revengeful, protective (after initially failing), remorseful, and so worse yet there can be a burden the men have to handle for the next segment. Sigh.
So okay now that the strong women have been reduced to quivering husks now what? The men get revenge! Which happens off the page and ends up with a head in a bag. Huh? Then more boring traveling. Then onto the a place “guarded by the most terrifying and deadly enemy of all!” Which is the promised dragon of the title. Who DOES NOTHING. Seriously it really does sleep while almost all the characters sneak past it. This supposed first dragon, THE dragon, doesn’t even twitch when a horde of people go past him. Its whole purpose it to GUARD the gate. Some terror. Some deadliness. It wakes up just in time to spit some flame. A super boring dragon! Urgh!
“And Beyond” that, the book got even worse. I won’t even get into it. I finished it because it was short and was remembered with fondness and I just didn’t get it. I guess I am too old and curmudgeony to suspend any real disbelief at the plot and only find meself disbelieving that this series is beloved by so many folk.
I did have the first mate tell me the continuation of the plot in the later novels. I am mystified that there are any people who are fond of this and all I can say is that me head hurts and I will be avoiding them indefinitely.
Check out me other reviews at https://thecaptainsquartersblog.wordp...
The First Mate and his siblings fondly remember this series from childhood. And well I am an easy mark for all dragon-related things. So I gave this a shot. And I had very, very mixed thoughts. Be forewarned, unlike me usual posts, there are spoilers at the end because of a need to rant. Continue at yer own peril . . .
The book is set up in five parts:
The Student Union
Lundeyll
Pandathaway
Bremon
And Beyond
“The Student Union” starts out with a group of college age kids who play table-top role playing games in a club. I was never into that kinda gaming so it took me a bit to get into the novel. But of course the players end up transported into the game world which is actually an alternate magical universe. While the characters are rather stereotypical, I did find the students’ entrance and introduction to “Lundeyll” to be comical. From accidentally destroying their supplies, to having split personalities while coming to terms with the mingling of their real and character memories, the beginning of the magical adventure made me happy. Plus there were a few unexpected surprises.
The third part when they are journeying to the great city of “Pandathaway” is where the story started to go off track slightly. This is where the love interest plotlines start to really kick in. While the good news is that women in this 1983 novel can and do choose to sleep with multiple sexual partners if they want to, the men sulk like whiny babies and get all macho and protective and annoying. It was a glimpse of things to come. However I did like the wonderful library in the city and Doria haggling in the market and we get to meet our first dragon. Arrrr! I loved the silly dragon and its use in the city. Made me laugh that the dragon in the book is described as brown with red glowing eyes. Doesn’t match the cover at all.
After an extremely unexciting tournament (how can sword fighting be boring!) the group heads towards “Bremon” and the book enjoyment soured. Why ye ask? Because 1) it is just wandering with no real seeming purpose and more importantly 2) rape becomes a plot point. The strong men sit in a wagon and listen to the women being raped for hours. While it is certainly not graphic in the telling, it is completely irrelevant to the story and exists only to make the men feel revengeful, protective (after initially failing), remorseful, and so worse yet there can be a burden the men have to handle for the next segment. Sigh.
So okay now that the strong women have been reduced to quivering husks now what? The men get revenge! Which happens off the page and ends up with a head in a bag. Huh? Then more boring traveling. Then onto the a place “guarded by the most terrifying and deadly enemy of all!” Which is the promised dragon of the title. Who DOES NOTHING. Seriously it really does sleep while almost all the characters sneak past it. This supposed first dragon, THE dragon, doesn’t even twitch when a horde of people go past him. Its whole purpose it to GUARD the gate. Some terror. Some deadliness. It wakes up just in time to spit some flame. A super boring dragon! Urgh!
“And Beyond” that, the book got even worse. I won’t even get into it. I finished it because it was short and was remembered with fondness and I just didn’t get it. I guess I am too old and curmudgeony to suspend any real disbelief at the plot and only find meself disbelieving that this series is beloved by so many folk.
I did have the first mate tell me the continuation of the plot in the later novels. I am mystified that there are any people who are fond of this and all I can say is that me head hurts and I will be avoiding them indefinitely.
Check out me other reviews at https://thecaptainsquartersblog.wordp...
October 6, 2014
Really...2.5 stars a little better than just alright. I noted elsewhere that back a few years ago I read several books that really only had one thing to recommend them...they were set in RPG game settings...I have been a gamer since 1978. I suppose it warps the taste slightly when the book you're reading has a game reference (well except for Mazes and Monsters, we'd all have been better off without that one).
A group of gamers gets "flung" into the world of their game...and the uhhh, well, fun(?) begins. Considering that the wizards spell books are destroyed right away and the kid who plays the thief brings a death penalty on himself ( real one..no rolling new characters when you die here), things are not getting off to a good start.
You might enjoy this, it might help if you're a gamer. You decide. I didn't follow the series.
A group of gamers gets "flung" into the world of their game...and the uhhh, well, fun(?) begins. Considering that the wizards spell books are destroyed right away and the kid who plays the thief brings a death penalty on himself ( real one..no rolling new characters when you die here), things are not getting off to a good start.
You might enjoy this, it might help if you're a gamer. You decide. I didn't follow the series.
October 25, 2008
This book is very deceptive. It reads at first like any other Dungeons & Dragons inspired rip-off --- at first. But then it becomes something deeper without your noticing it. In fact, the story begins with a bunch of college students starting to play a normal everyday D&D roleplaying session. But something happens when one of them "opens" a supply chest their character find waiting for them on a hill. SHAZAM! They are there! And they are their characters. All too quickly they find that in this world there are no saving throws. Magic is real, swords are very sharp, wounds hurt and death is final. To get home they have to make their way across the world they find themselves in and get past the oldest and largest dragon in the world. But getting there is, as they say, half the fun. This is a great beginning to a wonderful series!
September 3, 2009
Definitely in my Top Five fantasy books of ALL TIME, I say that with ZERO exaggeration...
This is NOT a Tolkien-clone like Shannara. Yes it has elements Tolkien used, but the story is so damn original and refreshing it's shocking.
There is nothing to say but READ THIS NOW. Amazing storytelling and flow, superb characters, just everything that makes Fantasy perfect.
This is NOT a Tolkien-clone like Shannara. Yes it has elements Tolkien used, but the story is so damn original and refreshing it's shocking.
There is nothing to say but READ THIS NOW. Amazing storytelling and flow, superb characters, just everything that makes Fantasy perfect.
July 1, 2016
I begrudgingly gave this book a three-star rating.
I loved the story. Or, I wanted to.
But at one point, the two female characters are gang-raped by the bad guys. No details except the men hearing "the screams of the women". Yea. Thanks for that. Why don't all of the male characters ever get gang-raped?
Anyways, beyond that, Rape is just a plot-point. See, the rape of the woman former woman was what ensured the sequel. I think the rape of the second woman was just because "why not?". Also, to showcase the brutality and the depravity of the villains? Whatever, really. I'm just writing this review to give a heads-up. I generally avoid novels written by men in which women get raped, and I wouldn't have even bothered.
It would have gotten a five-star rating from me were it not for that. But that's something that doesn't get a pass from me.
I loved the story. Or, I wanted to.
But at one point, the two female characters are gang-raped by the bad guys. No details except the men hearing "the screams of the women". Yea. Thanks for that. Why don't all of the male characters ever get gang-raped?
Anyways, beyond that, Rape is just a plot-point. See, the rape of the woman former woman was what ensured the sequel. I think the rape of the second woman was just because "why not?". Also, to showcase the brutality and the depravity of the villains? Whatever, really. I'm just writing this review to give a heads-up. I generally avoid novels written by men in which women get raped, and I wouldn't have even bothered.
It would have gotten a five-star rating from me were it not for that. But that's something that doesn't get a pass from me.
October 23, 2014
I first read this when it came out in the early 80's, I think. It's a fun book. While playing D&D, a group of college buddies are transported to the D&D world. Stuck there, they play out their lives in an interesting mix of fantasy world with their 20th century personalities & knowledge. It was a fun read. There are quite a few more books following it. I read the first five, but then lost interest.
September 8, 2011
This book has been in my collection for years and years. I have shared its brilliance with every reader I know. The characters are lovable, the world is believable, and the writing pulls you in from chapter one. Of the books I've read in my life, none would I recommend more than The Sleeping Dragon. (along with the rest or the series)
June 18, 2012
Again, another classic 1980's fantasy novel i read as a kid that i am re-reading. Would this kinda thing get published today when the bar has been set so high by the likes of Goerge r R Martin and tad Williams and the like. I dunno. But it was fun to revisit it.
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March 31, 2022I remember loving this series when I was young, but I will not be rating since it's been too long since I read them. I'm just adding some more physical copies of my books to GR.
October 25, 2012
On GoodReads Five Stars means "amazing" and I usually reserve it for undying classics, works that changed my thinking, that have beautiful prose styles that give me writer's envy, that make me cry, or laugh out loud, not merely smile. I can't really say those things of the book (except I might have gotten teary-eyed at one point--I read it ages ago.) At first impression this book might seem routine. Seven college students from modern-day America playing a game reminiscent of Dungeons and Dragons are transported to the fantasy world of the game as their role-playing alter egos. So one of them becomes a powerful dwarf warrior, another a thief/assassin type, another a sorceress and so on. So what makes this different? Well, because it's the anti-high fantasy.
I do often love sword and sorcery because it's the last bastion of adventure and heroism. At the same time, part of me is resistant, because hell, I'm a believer in democracies and republics, not a fan of monarchies and aristocracies, of reason, not magic. It's practically the definition of high fantasy that they're set in quasi-medieval worlds. And you know what? They suck. They have slavery (or at least serfdom) treat women like dirt, and lives are nasty, brutish and short. So hell yeah, I did adore the idea of kids from contemporary America messing with that world, not just taking it for granted. And I liked the characters--Karl, Walter, Lou, James (Ahira), Andrea--and oh, yeah, that Sleeping Dragon they don't let lie--Ellegon.
I do often love sword and sorcery because it's the last bastion of adventure and heroism. At the same time, part of me is resistant, because hell, I'm a believer in democracies and republics, not a fan of monarchies and aristocracies, of reason, not magic. It's practically the definition of high fantasy that they're set in quasi-medieval worlds. And you know what? They suck. They have slavery (or at least serfdom) treat women like dirt, and lives are nasty, brutish and short. So hell yeah, I did adore the idea of kids from contemporary America messing with that world, not just taking it for granted. And I liked the characters--Karl, Walter, Lou, James (Ahira), Andrea--and oh, yeah, that Sleeping Dragon they don't let lie--Ellegon.
May 1, 2010
This was a great book. The concept of being drawn into the game is just the start. There is great character development that makes you want to see whats going to change with them from page to page. All around a great story with some interesting life lessons for people. I definitely recommend for younger readers who enjoy role-playing as the basic concept is every true gamers dream come true.
August 29, 2017
My favorite book! Nobody seems to ever know about this author when I bring him up though, despite how much he's published. I believe this book is particularly appealing to anyone who's played tabletop RPGs before, but it can please any fantasy-genre audience.
April 3, 2013
Surprisingly good. Rosenberg's writing style is a little unpolished, but he makes up for that with a deep look at his characters and a brutal realism.
November 5, 2017
3.5 stars, falling just shy of 4 simply because this felt like a book written too quickly: a few out-of-place words, great characterization diminished by smatterings of incongruous dialogue that didn't seem to belong. Rounded up to 4 because the book was so much fun. I agree with Sebastian de Castell, Rosenberg would deliver some great grimdark novels if he were writing today.
January 5, 2016
I've mentioned in the past how time and place can influence your perception of a book a great deal. There are books I was fond of as a child or young adult I probably will never read again, because I know their influence on thirteen year old me will never equal the reality of reading them decades later. Was it Asimov who joked that the golden age of Science fiction is "When your about twelve". Conversly there are works I didn't understand, or didn't enjoy as a young person I find new value in, and works I did enjoy but find different value in.
Occasionally I read a book and enjoy it but think "Man, I would have really loved this when I was younger" and the Sleeping Dragon falls into that category. Had I read Rosenberg's work when I was thirteen, it would probably rank up there for me and frankly I'm astonished I never did read it, given how it cleaves to so many of my interests.
The Book is basically a 'what if' in which a group of table-top Role-players engaging in a psuedo-Dungeons and Dragon game are transported into the world of that game, 'merging' with their characters. Supposedly the book came about after Rosenberg thought how cool it would be to be in such a world and than realized how horrific it would be to actually live day to day in such a place. Where Wizards and Clerics had actual magical powers, rule of law was absense but rule of might everywhere, and where actual monsters roamed the world. Not to mention the absense of modern dentistry and sanitation.
So plunged into this world the protagonists are off on an adventure to get back to their own world while realizing how dark this world is. They learn some lessons along the way and are hit with some pretty horrific actions. The conflict between their 'real-world selves' and the psyches of the people they now 'inhabit' was really interesting. It was something I wished played out more than in just two of the principal characters. That element seemed a little inconsistent. The book is also rather dated at this point in many ways. To not put too fine a point on it, there is a not graphic, but plot central gang-rape near the end of the book that is rather off-putting. Elements of it and it's outcome are handled alright(it's not salacious or anything) but it does feel very routed in elements of the gaming world of the late 70's and early 80's.
Over-all I quite enjoyed the book, and thirteen year old me would have loved it. Those without my potential for nostalgia and love of RPG's might find it only a middling portal fantasy. Those with the requisites though will find it a nice quick read.
Occasionally I read a book and enjoy it but think "Man, I would have really loved this when I was younger" and the Sleeping Dragon falls into that category. Had I read Rosenberg's work when I was thirteen, it would probably rank up there for me and frankly I'm astonished I never did read it, given how it cleaves to so many of my interests.
The Book is basically a 'what if' in which a group of table-top Role-players engaging in a psuedo-Dungeons and Dragon game are transported into the world of that game, 'merging' with their characters. Supposedly the book came about after Rosenberg thought how cool it would be to be in such a world and than realized how horrific it would be to actually live day to day in such a place. Where Wizards and Clerics had actual magical powers, rule of law was absense but rule of might everywhere, and where actual monsters roamed the world. Not to mention the absense of modern dentistry and sanitation.
So plunged into this world the protagonists are off on an adventure to get back to their own world while realizing how dark this world is. They learn some lessons along the way and are hit with some pretty horrific actions. The conflict between their 'real-world selves' and the psyches of the people they now 'inhabit' was really interesting. It was something I wished played out more than in just two of the principal characters. That element seemed a little inconsistent. The book is also rather dated at this point in many ways. To not put too fine a point on it, there is a not graphic, but plot central gang-rape near the end of the book that is rather off-putting. Elements of it and it's outcome are handled alright(it's not salacious or anything) but it does feel very routed in elements of the gaming world of the late 70's and early 80's.
Over-all I quite enjoyed the book, and thirteen year old me would have loved it. Those without my potential for nostalgia and love of RPG's might find it only a middling portal fantasy. Those with the requisites though will find it a nice quick read.
November 28, 2017
I don't usually go for "series" type books, especially in fantasy & sci-fi, but this one was all right. In fact it could pretty easily stand alone as a single novel since it does tell a complete "story" in the sense that you see the characters develop. Continuing the story actually seems unnecessary to me, but I will probably read at least one more since my brother has already loaned me the next one.
As I understand the background for this novel, the author's wife or girlfriend was very into Dungeons & Dragons and told him she'd love to live the world her player character inhabits, and this novel was his effort to say "Bullshit you would, it would be dark as hell to live in a world that dangerous." So the story introduces a role-playing group, and while they are college students in the novel, frankly they play a bit like a bunch of middle school kids, arguing over treasure and trying to make their own characters the most powerful at the expense of the other players' characters. But then the players are sent into a fantasy world exactly like the one they've been playing and things get "interesting." They find themselves physically transformed into their characters, and they all feel a second personality -- that of the character they created -- battling for control of their minds. An incident on their arrival deprives them of the magic items and spell books they would have needed to make a journey to get themselves back to the real world. And so they are stuck relying on their wits and new-found abilities in a struggle to survive and make the journey anyway.
The characters get traumatized in various ways, being stabbed, enslaved, gang raped, and/or killed. (So although the cover of the paperback looks like a standard issue juvenile/YA fantasy in the vein of Piers Anthony, it does get a little dark.) But some of them also learn to become self-reliant, to take responsibility for others, and even aspire to heroism.
I assume the sequels (there seem to be at least five) continue their adventures as they attempt to improve the fantasy realm, which is portrayed as sort of a decadent Imperial Rome ruled by wizards and slavers. Yeah, I guess I'll read a few more.
As I understand the background for this novel, the author's wife or girlfriend was very into Dungeons & Dragons and told him she'd love to live the world her player character inhabits, and this novel was his effort to say "Bullshit you would, it would be dark as hell to live in a world that dangerous." So the story introduces a role-playing group, and while they are college students in the novel, frankly they play a bit like a bunch of middle school kids, arguing over treasure and trying to make their own characters the most powerful at the expense of the other players' characters. But then the players are sent into a fantasy world exactly like the one they've been playing and things get "interesting." They find themselves physically transformed into their characters, and they all feel a second personality -- that of the character they created -- battling for control of their minds. An incident on their arrival deprives them of the magic items and spell books they would have needed to make a journey to get themselves back to the real world. And so they are stuck relying on their wits and new-found abilities in a struggle to survive and make the journey anyway.
The characters get traumatized in various ways, being stabbed, enslaved, gang raped, and/or killed. (So although the cover of the paperback looks like a standard issue juvenile/YA fantasy in the vein of Piers Anthony, it does get a little dark.) But some of them also learn to become self-reliant, to take responsibility for others, and even aspire to heroism.
I assume the sequels (there seem to be at least five) continue their adventures as they attempt to improve the fantasy realm, which is portrayed as sort of a decadent Imperial Rome ruled by wizards and slavers. Yeah, I guess I'll read a few more.
March 14, 2017
The premise of this book sucked me in immediately: A group of college kids who play D&D who get sucked into the magical world of their characters, AS their characters. It offers some interesting ideas on what that might be like - and most of it isn't pleasant for those experiencing it (One major character doesn't make it through their first encounter with the locals). There is a very original idea for how a magic-based world might deal with sewage, which is something I like about this series in general - throughout, there are interesting digressions into how a world actually works on a bigger scale than just, "Big guy with sword hits other big guy with sword!"
Certainly, there are some flaws in the execution of this story from the early 1980s, as viewed by a 2017 audience. The female characters are generally underdeveloped and underplayed, often serving more as plot devices than as characters. This is a shame, because the male characters are pretty nicely fleshed out as the story moves along, with parts of the story being told through each of their perspectives, and each presenting different character traits that make them seem interesting and relatable. Why Rosenberg didn't do the same for his female characters, I don't know, but it's a bit of a shame. Of course, this is not unusual for the time in which this novel was written, but it's still a bit of a bummer.
I am a bit dissatisfied with some elements of the ending; there are major backstories and mysteries teased, but there's not enough information provided to really pique the/this reader's interest; it seems like more of an annoying tangent than anything, though there is an implication in later books that there may, eventually, be further development of this concept at some point (just not in any of the first three books, unfortunately).
Overall, this is a pretty entertaining first book in a pretty entertaining series. If you like relatively-realistic fantasy and action, this could scratch your itch nicely.
Certainly, there are some flaws in the execution of this story from the early 1980s, as viewed by a 2017 audience. The female characters are generally underdeveloped and underplayed, often serving more as plot devices than as characters. This is a shame, because the male characters are pretty nicely fleshed out as the story moves along, with parts of the story being told through each of their perspectives, and each presenting different character traits that make them seem interesting and relatable. Why Rosenberg didn't do the same for his female characters, I don't know, but it's a bit of a shame. Of course, this is not unusual for the time in which this novel was written, but it's still a bit of a bummer.
I am a bit dissatisfied with some elements of the ending; there are major backstories and mysteries teased, but there's not enough information provided to really pique the/this reader's interest; it seems like more of an annoying tangent than anything, though there is an implication in later books that there may, eventually, be further development of this concept at some point (just not in any of the first three books, unfortunately).
Overall, this is a pretty entertaining first book in a pretty entertaining series. If you like relatively-realistic fantasy and action, this could scratch your itch nicely.
August 16, 2008
I've known about this series for most of the 25 years they've been out, but never read them because a) there are certainly zillions of other fantasy series to read, many of which look much better and b) I distinctly remember a couple of my close friends in college slamming them. So I surprised even myself when I picked up the first three (I thought there WERE only three, but turns out the series has gone to ten as of 2008!) at a used booksale -- even for .25 apiece it seemed risky. Glad I did, though; although this initial volume isn't anything truly great, it really does read like the AD&D (first edition I guess) campaign that it doubtless was based on. Sure the classes and races are changed about just a bit -- but only just a bit -- and there's nothing all THAT original about characters being aware that they're characters, or being transported from "reality" to "fantasy-land" -- but this hit the right chord for me somehow, and brought me back to my own RPG days in college better than a lot of finer pieces of prose might. And a point goes to Rosenberg for being "realistic" enough to kill off or seriously hurt major characters without seeming regard to whether his audience will like him for it or not.
In some, no great shakes but a fun read and I'll certainly go through the next two volumes before too long.
In some, no great shakes but a fun read and I'll certainly go through the next two volumes before too long.
January 20, 2009
I've read the entire Guardians of the Flame series twice in the past, once probably in my mid-teens, and then again in my early twenties, and both times I remember enjoying them. I don't recall if I enjoyed this book in particular, or if I was just willing to slog through it in order to get to later books in the series.
Unfortunately, my most recent attempt at a reread failed utterly, because I just couldn't stand the characters, even the ones meant to be somewhat sympathetic. I know that part of the point of the books is the way that Walter, Karl et al grow & change in response to the reality of slavery, violence & so forth, but somehow I just couldn't manage to enjoy it this time, and there are so many other things I could be reading instead!
Still, I do retain fondness for the series; I remember the shock of the fantasy world being so gritty and violent, the casual slavery and disregard for human life, and I get what Rosenberg was trying to do & think it was worthwhile. I may just have outgrown the books, as I no longer imagine that the past was better than the present, or that being teleported into a fantasy universe with magic, dragons & the like would improve my life. I did before I read these books, though, and I suppose that says something about the huge impact they had on my younger self.
Unfortunately, my most recent attempt at a reread failed utterly, because I just couldn't stand the characters, even the ones meant to be somewhat sympathetic. I know that part of the point of the books is the way that Walter, Karl et al grow & change in response to the reality of slavery, violence & so forth, but somehow I just couldn't manage to enjoy it this time, and there are so many other things I could be reading instead!
Still, I do retain fondness for the series; I remember the shock of the fantasy world being so gritty and violent, the casual slavery and disregard for human life, and I get what Rosenberg was trying to do & think it was worthwhile. I may just have outgrown the books, as I no longer imagine that the past was better than the present, or that being teleported into a fantasy universe with magic, dragons & the like would improve my life. I did before I read these books, though, and I suppose that says something about the huge impact they had on my younger self.
January 23, 2012
I first read this book more than twenty years ago, and I remember liking it, so when I found the ebook for a reasonable price, I figured I would read it again. This is exactly the kind of book that made me a fan of fantasy in the first place. A group of college students are transported into the world of a role playing game, and now have both the abilities and memories of both themselves adn their characters. The plot follows their attempts to get home, but mostly pertains to their differing reactions to the world they are now in.
One of the things I like best about this book, is that while the main characters aren't perfect, they aren't as broken or conflicted as is common in more recent books. I enjoy those books, as well, but there's something about a hero story with self-sacrifice and nobility. As I said before, this is the kind of book that got me hooked on fantasy so that now I can read the more ambiguous books.
There are some mature themes in the book, though it isn't explicit. I figured I should give a bit of a heads up, in case anyone's kids were thinking of reading it. I wouldn't say keep them away from it, but you should be ready to discuss some of the more intense portions with them.
One of the things I like best about this book, is that while the main characters aren't perfect, they aren't as broken or conflicted as is common in more recent books. I enjoy those books, as well, but there's something about a hero story with self-sacrifice and nobility. As I said before, this is the kind of book that got me hooked on fantasy so that now I can read the more ambiguous books.
There are some mature themes in the book, though it isn't explicit. I figured I should give a bit of a heads up, in case anyone's kids were thinking of reading it. I wouldn't say keep them away from it, but you should be ready to discuss some of the more intense portions with them.
January 4, 2021
2.5 stars
Shortly, the group of gamers is playing D&D-like game and in one moment they're transported into fantasy world and the game becomes very very real.
I was huge fan of RPG so the synopsis made me curious. The story is starting with game session and it was a little long for my taste. I have to say it's more alluring to play the game than read how others are playing. It was boring. The interesting part begins after "accident" when they wake in fantasy universe and have to find the way back.
The negative part - the book begins with too much names - the players, their new and old characters, so I was quite confused who is who and it took some time to get them straight.
One of things I liked was blending of personalities - the real and the made-up character. It wasn't equal and permanent mixture, depend on situation, one or the other was gaining more control.
Overall, the book is easy reading, good for relax. But I'm not sure if I will continue the series. The next "task" sounds too unfitting and impossible for actual characters - set slaves free - it's just...
Shortly, the group of gamers is playing D&D-like game and in one moment they're transported into fantasy world and the game becomes very very real.
I was huge fan of RPG so the synopsis made me curious. The story is starting with game session and it was a little long for my taste. I have to say it's more alluring to play the game than read how others are playing. It was boring. The interesting part begins after "accident" when they wake in fantasy universe and have to find the way back.
The negative part - the book begins with too much names - the players, their new and old characters, so I was quite confused who is who and it took some time to get them straight.
One of things I liked was blending of personalities - the real and the made-up character. It wasn't equal and permanent mixture, depend on situation, one or the other was gaining more control.
Overall, the book is easy reading, good for relax. But I'm not sure if I will continue the series. The next "task" sounds too unfitting and impossible for actual characters - set slaves free - it's just...
July 25, 2012
In my opinion, this is one of the best and most underrated fantasy books ever written. The concept is a little cliche, but if you look past that, you are going to find a story of friendship and a battle against slavery and hate. This book is short, fun, and it will leave you itching for the next one. I should know, because I ordered the rest of the series a few short weeks after purchasing it (and that was only after scouring all the used book stores in town and not being able to find them). Sadly, Joel died a few years ago, and he never got to finish these books. That is something you should consider before you do pick this up - but I urge you, do it anyway. It's more than worth your while.
January 2, 2011
I enjoyed this pretty thoroughly as a kid. It came up, of all things, while shooting the shit an in interview for NVIDIA's compiler team last month (?!?), so I guess the lesson here is that even garbage comes in handy sometimes (for that matter, a brief biographical sketch of Robert Wilson I read a decade ago happened to come in handy talking to a Fermilab alum just last night, and my understanding of the female mind was largely shaped by Baby-Sitters Club, Cat Power lyrics and the Molly Bloom soliloquy from Ulysses so keep readin', kiddos!).
June 12, 2017
It's hard for me to give this a rating as I originally read this in high school and LOVED it. Classic D&D player fiction. Crossing over into the world of your game. It gets 5 stars for all the memories it brought back. Is it a good book? It's fine .. a good fantasy novel. The female characters are OK, not great. But there are a few glimpses of interesting world-building. And some interesting (albeit brief) observations of quirks of character traits and personality - of what would happen if you became your D&D character - what part of self would you retain.
January 29, 2022
Telegraphed dialogue. Interrupting dialogue with internal monologue. Obviously cut out a lot of the actual quest itself too meet the mass paperback size requirements, but poor editing throughout. For example, when the men go back to kill the slavers who raped the women party members and that scene is not shown. Why did we even need the slavers to catch up? Just go to the tunnel in the mountain and have some Interesting stuff happen there. Also , sometimes someone says something they shouldn't know.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
February 16, 2008
If there is a catagory of fantasy named people sent to other dimension into fantasy realm to fight then this book would be up at the top of the list along with the Doomfarers of Coramonde by Brian Daley, and Witch World by Andre Norton. The characters are interesting and the story is well told. I havent read this book in years but I pick it up and I still remember Karl and the rest from the dungeons and dragon game.
March 16, 2013
I absolutely loved this book. I first read a part of it (like the first three chapters) when I borrowed it from a stranger to pass time at a class and then it took me three more years to finally track a copy down and read it cover to cover all in one go. A great book for players of Dungeons & Dragons who ever wondered what it would be like to be transformed into their characters into a fantasy world- dark, dangerous and with no traditional health care.
November 4, 2009
Truthfully, I've never been big into Dungeons & Dragons (the game). So this story started out a bit slow from me, as someone who never played, it was information that was "over my head." However, I found the story line and thought behind this book interesting and I'm glad that I read it. Now I will have to sniff out more from Joel Rosenberg.
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