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Great Dames: What I Learned from Older Women
"Fascinating, gossipy, entertaining. . . ."
— New York Times Book Review
They are ten outstanding women of the century. Each had an aura, including Thelma Brenner, the first great dame her daughter ever knew. Their lives were both gloriously individual and yet somehow universal. They were mighty warriors and social leaders, women of aspiration who persevered. They lived through the Great Depression and a world war. Circumstances did not defeat them. They played on Broadway and in Washington. They had glamour, style, and intelligence. They dressed up the world.
"Vivid, intimate portraits . . . a splendid tribute to ten of the century's grandest, most powerful women."
— Us
"These women were our geishas, whispering in our ears to influence all aspects of American life."
—Susan Salter Reynolds, Los Angeles Times
"Delectable, classy . . . a runaway hit."
—Liz Smith
"An engrossing introduction to a way of life that's now extinct, for better or for worse."
— Chicago Sun-Times
— New York Times Book Review
They are ten outstanding women of the century. Each had an aura, including Thelma Brenner, the first great dame her daughter ever knew. Their lives were both gloriously individual and yet somehow universal. They were mighty warriors and social leaders, women of aspiration who persevered. They lived through the Great Depression and a world war. Circumstances did not defeat them. They played on Broadway and in Washington. They had glamour, style, and intelligence. They dressed up the world.
"Vivid, intimate portraits . . . a splendid tribute to ten of the century's grandest, most powerful women."
— Us
"These women were our geishas, whispering in our ears to influence all aspects of American life."
—Susan Salter Reynolds, Los Angeles Times
"Delectable, classy . . . a runaway hit."
—Liz Smith
"An engrossing introduction to a way of life that's now extinct, for better or for worse."
— Chicago Sun-Times
256 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 2000
17 people are currently reading
111 people want to read
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Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews
June 26, 2020
I didn't much like most of the women who were featured in Great Dames. With some exceptions, I thought they were spoiled, self-centered, egotistical, and without any sense of humour at all. Clare Boothe Luce, Luise Rainer, Kay Thompson, Diana Trilling, Marietta Tree and Pamela Harriman would have been nightmares to live with; there would be no oxygen left over for anyone else. They were over the top, and dramatic, if that is what Brenner means by "Great Dames" but I fail to see why those qualities are particularly admirable.
I liked Kitty Carlisle Hart, who dedicated much of her life to public service. Constance Baker Moxley is a heroine for her contribution to civil rights. Much has been written about Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, but there was nothing new about her in this book. And her tribute to her own mother, Thelma Brenner, was touching. Thelma was not famous, like the other women, but she did have a grand lady persona. I liked her moxie.
I do take exception to some of the other comments that these women 'slept their way to the top.' That is not true of Kay Thompson, or Constance Baker Moxley, or Kitty Carlisle Hart, and it can be strongly argued that Hart rescued her husband, Moss Hart from his demons. Clare Boothe Luce was married to a powerful man, but she certainly had talent of her own. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis had two powerful husbands, but it seems to me that far more has been written about her than them, and she went on to a successful career of her own as an editor. Luise Rainer won two Oscars. Diana Trilling had a substantial writing career.
What I am saying is that women in those times were encouraged to be married, raised to be wives, and it is a disservice to them to sweep aside their accomplishments based on who they married. I think they all stood out on their own merits, even Marietta Tree and Pamela Harriman, who are the two women whose marriages were integral to their success. I would have like them all, considerably more, if a sense of humour was part of their wardrobe.
I liked Kitty Carlisle Hart, who dedicated much of her life to public service. Constance Baker Moxley is a heroine for her contribution to civil rights. Much has been written about Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, but there was nothing new about her in this book. And her tribute to her own mother, Thelma Brenner, was touching. Thelma was not famous, like the other women, but she did have a grand lady persona. I liked her moxie.
I do take exception to some of the other comments that these women 'slept their way to the top.' That is not true of Kay Thompson, or Constance Baker Moxley, or Kitty Carlisle Hart, and it can be strongly argued that Hart rescued her husband, Moss Hart from his demons. Clare Boothe Luce was married to a powerful man, but she certainly had talent of her own. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis had two powerful husbands, but it seems to me that far more has been written about her than them, and she went on to a successful career of her own as an editor. Luise Rainer won two Oscars. Diana Trilling had a substantial writing career.
What I am saying is that women in those times were encouraged to be married, raised to be wives, and it is a disservice to them to sweep aside their accomplishments based on who they married. I think they all stood out on their own merits, even Marietta Tree and Pamela Harriman, who are the two women whose marriages were integral to their success. I would have like them all, considerably more, if a sense of humour was part of their wardrobe.
February 4, 2018
I tried to like this book. I thought I would, but unfortunately, I did not, and didn't finish it.
The women the author is profiling are all in their own way important in their times and worlds. Many of them did laudable things, or impacted or changed things. And I would agree that they were "great dames".
But their stories and the way the author told them just felt too much like reading a text book for me. It was slow going, and I guess I just wasn't into the stories enough to be drawn in when the style felt like work to read.
I also think that the time these women lived in and the challenges they were faced with are so many worlds away from the things women are living with and facing today that it was very hard for me to connect them with the world of now and find similarities in their challenges faces. That's not fair - comparing that world with today, but that's my reality and what I am looking at so I'm not sure how to help that.
In the end I just wasn't engaged enough with this to finish it. Too many other books on my list to stick with one I'm not liking.
The women the author is profiling are all in their own way important in their times and worlds. Many of them did laudable things, or impacted or changed things. And I would agree that they were "great dames".
But their stories and the way the author told them just felt too much like reading a text book for me. It was slow going, and I guess I just wasn't into the stories enough to be drawn in when the style felt like work to read.
I also think that the time these women lived in and the challenges they were faced with are so many worlds away from the things women are living with and facing today that it was very hard for me to connect them with the world of now and find similarities in their challenges faces. That's not fair - comparing that world with today, but that's my reality and what I am looking at so I'm not sure how to help that.
In the end I just wasn't engaged enough with this to finish it. Too many other books on my list to stick with one I'm not liking.
September 15, 2015
Depressing rather than inspiring. Need I say more?
June 3, 2021
I loved this book! It is gossipy and filled with great “inside” details about the women described—Kitty Carlisle, Jackie Onassis, Claire Booth Luce, Pamela Harriman—and others of this ilk from bygone days when women “dressed” and “held their heads up high” and to some extent hid who they really are. Although there are benefits to a more open approach to life, I do miss the days when a certain elegant veneer covered the public persona of celebrities. And yet, my nosiness persists! The most touching narrative is the one about the author’s mother, Thelma Brenner. I have been enjoying Marie Brenner’s writing for years in Vanity Fair. I am having trouble, however, locating any current work or finding out how to contact her. I did find that she and I have the same birthday and that she is two years younger than I. Will be keeping my eye out…
June 19, 2017
Brenner has chosen an interesting group of women from the 50's and 60's, most of whom I only know of slightly. Among them are Kitty Carlisle, Clare Boothe Luce, Pamela Harriman and others. Brenner starts out with a too long discussion of how things were different then. Since I was born in 1947 this wasn't news to me and seemed boring, but maybe it would be good for younger women to acquaint themselves with the reality of these women's times. But as soon as Brenner gets to the actual women, their stories are fascinating. Even Jackie Kennedy Onassis, about whom we know a lot, has a fresh perspective. These women are not all paragons of virtue or even sometimes civility, but their lives were/are fascinating and they navigated their waters very successfully. An interesting read.
October 31, 2021
The book is interestingly written though I would have a completely different list of older women than has this author. I respect her choices while in disagreement over which are truly wise and worthy of imitation. All in all the book is compelling and one can learn something from each woman's life.
June 17, 2022
I really enjoyed this book. The little short synopsis of ten women, mostly famous, wasn't an in depth discussion of their lives but I loved getting a taste. I can read more about the more interesting ones on my own.
February 7, 2018
I guess I learned nothing from these great dames.
September 16, 2016
Looking for an alternative to the word "Crone," I had settled on "Dame." I love that word and I identify more with the "dames" in the movies from the late-1940's/early-1950's (think Jane Russell) than with the stars. "Dames" aren't drop-dead gorgeous and don't get the leading man, but they are sensible, fun, snarky, and energetic.
The "Dames" in this book aren't them.
These women are more "Grande Dames." Born between 1900-1910's, these women came to power through the men they married or slept with. They are doyennes of New York and Washington, D.C. Most came from humble beginnings and used their beauty to gain access to power. They were always well-turned out and gave elegant parties and hosted salons.
The exception was Constance Baker Motley, one of the first African-American female lawyers who clerked for Thurgood Marshall at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Ms. Brenner mentions that When Ms. Motley went to Mississippi to try her first case, she bought a dress from Lord & Taylor. And then leaves that detail hanging. Why is this detail important?
In her profile of Diana Trilling, Ms. Brenner states that Ms. Trilling was an important literary critic, but, again, I have no understanding of why.
Ms. Brenner spends a lot of time detailing the externals of the lives of these women: what they wore, how they decorated, but much less time on what they did or why they supported the causes they did.
My sentiments echo that of the 28-year-old quoted in the profile of Pamela Harriman: "Here's a woman who chose her spouses very carefully, from very early--marrying up was her career... All of her sophistication and glamour doesn't erase the fact that she was an adulteress, a bad mother..., and basically slept her way to the top... It's interesting to me that all the shortcomings I perceive in her character translated into acceptance, advancement, and,even reverence in the upper echelons of politics and society." That is true of most of the women Ms. Brenner profiled. Ultimately, while these profiles are interesting, they are also very superficial.
The "Dames" in this book aren't them.
These women are more "Grande Dames." Born between 1900-1910's, these women came to power through the men they married or slept with. They are doyennes of New York and Washington, D.C. Most came from humble beginnings and used their beauty to gain access to power. They were always well-turned out and gave elegant parties and hosted salons.
The exception was Constance Baker Motley, one of the first African-American female lawyers who clerked for Thurgood Marshall at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Ms. Brenner mentions that When Ms. Motley went to Mississippi to try her first case, she bought a dress from Lord & Taylor. And then leaves that detail hanging. Why is this detail important?
In her profile of Diana Trilling, Ms. Brenner states that Ms. Trilling was an important literary critic, but, again, I have no understanding of why.
Ms. Brenner spends a lot of time detailing the externals of the lives of these women: what they wore, how they decorated, but much less time on what they did or why they supported the causes they did.
My sentiments echo that of the 28-year-old quoted in the profile of Pamela Harriman: "Here's a woman who chose her spouses very carefully, from very early--marrying up was her career... All of her sophistication and glamour doesn't erase the fact that she was an adulteress, a bad mother..., and basically slept her way to the top... It's interesting to me that all the shortcomings I perceive in her character translated into acceptance, advancement, and,even reverence in the upper echelons of politics and society." That is true of most of the women Ms. Brenner profiled. Ultimately, while these profiles are interesting, they are also very superficial.
January 25, 2015
This book is a collection of essays about various famous women that this younger woman, Marie Brenner, has known, such as Kitty Carlisle Hart, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, Luise Rainer, Pamela Churchill Harriman, Kay Thompson, Clare Boothe Luce, and several others.
The main thing many of these women had in common was that they were creatures of habit, tended to always keep a positive attitude in public, were always trained to practice the niceties of good manners and treatment of others, and some, not all, here maintained an air of mystery about them (Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis being the most obvious example of that).
I enjoyed the book immensely as there were only one or two women (such as the author's mother, which is the final essay in the book) whom I had never heard of. I would certainly recommend it to those interested in 20th-century high society. One of the amusing things mentioned throughout the book is that these women dreaded being called a "socialite" above all else.
**#11 of 100 books I have pledged to read and review during 2015**
The main thing many of these women had in common was that they were creatures of habit, tended to always keep a positive attitude in public, were always trained to practice the niceties of good manners and treatment of others, and some, not all, here maintained an air of mystery about them (Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis being the most obvious example of that).
I enjoyed the book immensely as there were only one or two women (such as the author's mother, which is the final essay in the book) whom I had never heard of. I would certainly recommend it to those interested in 20th-century high society. One of the amusing things mentioned throughout the book is that these women dreaded being called a "socialite" above all else.
**#11 of 100 books I have pledged to read and review during 2015**
June 9, 2014
These were some good stories about women but the author doesn't seem to clearly articulate what it is she learned from these women. I may be too dense and she was too subtle for me to pick it up from the stories.
May 5, 2014
it did not deliver what I expected or was looking for.
June 21, 2014
about half of the great dames had interesting lives and others not so.
February 3, 2015
did not care for this book.
Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews