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The Wisdom Of Joseph Campbell: In Conversation With Michael Toms
Over a span of 12 years, Michael Toms recorded conversations between the late Joseph Campbell and himself, during which they developed a close friendship. Here are audio cassettes of which Campbell brings listeners in touch with our mythic heritage.
Audio CD
First published January 1, 1991
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About the author
Joseph Campbell
425 books6,195 followersJoseph Campbell was an American author and teacher best known for his work in the field of comparative mythology. He was born in New York City in 1904, and from early childhood he became interested in mythology. He loved to read books about American Indian cultures, and frequently visited the American Museum of Natural History in New York, where he was fascinated by the museum's collection of totem poles.
Campbell was educated at Columbia University, where he specialized in medieval literature, and continued his studies at universities in Paris and Munich. While abroad he was influenced by the art of Pablo Picasso and Henri Matisse, the novels of James Joyce and Thomas Mann, and the psychological studies of Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung. These encounters led to Campbell's theory that all myths and epics are linked in the human psyche, and that they are cultural manifestations of the universal need to explain social, cosmological, and spiritual realities.
After a period in California, where he encountered John Steinbeck and the biologist Ed Ricketts, he taught at the Canterbury School, and then, in 1934, joined the literature department at Sarah Lawrence College, a post he retained for many years. During the 40s and '50s, he helped Swami Nikhilananda to translate the Upanishads and The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. He also edited works by the German scholar Heinrich Zimmer on Indian art, myths, and philosophy. In 1944, with Henry Morton Robinson, Campbell published A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake. His first original work, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, came out in 1949 and was immediately well received; in time, it became acclaimed as a classic. In this study of the "myth of the hero," Campbell asserted that there is a single pattern of heroic journey and that all cultures share this essential pattern in their various heroic myths. In his book he also outlined the basic conditions, stages, and results of the archetypal hero's journey.
Throughout his life, he traveled extensively and wrote prolifically, authoring many books, including the four-volume series The Masks of God, Myths to Live By, The Inner Reaches of Outer Space and The Historical Atlas of World Mythology. Joseph Campbell died in 1987. In 1988, a series of television interviews with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth, introduced Campbell's views to millions of people.
Campbell was educated at Columbia University, where he specialized in medieval literature, and continued his studies at universities in Paris and Munich. While abroad he was influenced by the art of Pablo Picasso and Henri Matisse, the novels of James Joyce and Thomas Mann, and the psychological studies of Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung. These encounters led to Campbell's theory that all myths and epics are linked in the human psyche, and that they are cultural manifestations of the universal need to explain social, cosmological, and spiritual realities.
After a period in California, where he encountered John Steinbeck and the biologist Ed Ricketts, he taught at the Canterbury School, and then, in 1934, joined the literature department at Sarah Lawrence College, a post he retained for many years. During the 40s and '50s, he helped Swami Nikhilananda to translate the Upanishads and The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. He also edited works by the German scholar Heinrich Zimmer on Indian art, myths, and philosophy. In 1944, with Henry Morton Robinson, Campbell published A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake. His first original work, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, came out in 1949 and was immediately well received; in time, it became acclaimed as a classic. In this study of the "myth of the hero," Campbell asserted that there is a single pattern of heroic journey and that all cultures share this essential pattern in their various heroic myths. In his book he also outlined the basic conditions, stages, and results of the archetypal hero's journey.
Throughout his life, he traveled extensively and wrote prolifically, authoring many books, including the four-volume series The Masks of God, Myths to Live By, The Inner Reaches of Outer Space and The Historical Atlas of World Mythology. Joseph Campbell died in 1987. In 1988, a series of television interviews with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth, introduced Campbell's views to millions of people.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 38 reviews
March 21, 2024
Joseph Campbell speaks about mythology and living in the living world.
1. Achievers spend most of their time thinking of the future rather than appreciating the moment; and
2. Logically we speak of the wonders of diversity but go back to our own cliques reflected by the volatile politics as of late in America.
Those two points stood out for me.
MY GRADE: B
1. Achievers spend most of their time thinking of the future rather than appreciating the moment; and
2. Logically we speak of the wonders of diversity but go back to our own cliques reflected by the volatile politics as of late in America.
Those two points stood out for me.
MY GRADE: B
June 18, 2014
This is an absolutely wonderful set of interviews with Joseph Campbell recorded in the last years of his life. Because these are taken toward the end of his career, he's able to look back over 60 years of his life's studies and pare them down to the essentials. One reviewer claimed it was repetitive, and Campbell does seem to focus on the same themes again and again, but I think he does so because he sees these themes as the essential teachings of humanity that arise on every corner of the globe throughout the millennia. I found that it helps to hear them articulated in different ways, and I never grew tired of listening to them.
There is a great focus on the interconnectedness of all life and human experience, yet Campbell believes each one of us must courageously embark upon our own individual journey and set off beyond the rules and confines of society in order to live a fully realized life. If you're interested in what it truly means to be human, I highly recommend this.
There is a great focus on the interconnectedness of all life and human experience, yet Campbell believes each one of us must courageously embark upon our own individual journey and set off beyond the rules and confines of society in order to live a fully realized life. If you're interested in what it truly means to be human, I highly recommend this.
August 18, 2008
If you are dogmatic conservative Christian you will not like this book. However, if you can see the Bible as a book of myths which contain invaluable moral lessons and that those lessons are true, then you will enjoy this book. Myth is the secret opening through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos pour into human manifestation....
In my view, this man is pure genius.
I have been raised in church all my life, and after years of unanswered questions, I have finally found a world view that actually makes sense.
In my view, this man is pure genius.
I have been raised in church all my life, and after years of unanswered questions, I have finally found a world view that actually makes sense.
November 7, 2015
This is truly excellent! After reading a number of his books this was a real treat. Over a twelve year period Michael Tom's conducts interviews with Joseph Campbell on the most interesting aspects of his work and the personal insights he gleaned from it. Actually, Campbell wouldn't call it work at all. This is a journey through Joseph Campbell's life and passion. As our society evolves in the digital era, the thread of myth is still being woven. For example, why is storytelling as important today as it was at the beginning of civilization? His wisdom is timeless and becomes more relevant as our collective story merges with the global tribe.
The questions we would want to ask him are answered. The dialog goes back and forth smoothly (a result of their close relationship) and you really get to know the man behind the words. This is someone who truly followed his bliss. I'd say he's the Carl Sagan of mythology. I have listened to this many many times and the lessons just grow deeper. This is a great reminder to do so again.
The questions we would want to ask him are answered. The dialog goes back and forth smoothly (a result of their close relationship) and you really get to know the man behind the words. This is someone who truly followed his bliss. I'd say he's the Carl Sagan of mythology. I have listened to this many many times and the lessons just grow deeper. This is a great reminder to do so again.
December 26, 2018
After all the books by and about Campbell, including his own audio lectures, this is the finest exposure to his ideas I’ve encountered so far. Credit for that goes to the late Michael Toms. With broad understanding of his own, Toms was immersed in Campbell’s ideas. Given their close friendship, Campbell shines without reservation or need to bring Toms along. Toms is already there with just the right direction that let’s Campbell sparkle as only the best interviewers can.
What Campbell does here is offer an escape from modernity’s collapse of meaning through a potential to reframe us and our surroundings. (I’m reminded of the same message from The Great Course’s No Excuses Existentialism earlier reviewed.) Armed with history, philosophy, psychology, religion and myth, Campbell makes connections between seemingly unrelated things. Either they once had that connection all could grasp, now lost, or Campbell reveals for us what few if any have seen. Not infrequently we’re reminded of points he’s made elsewhere with Bill Moyers or in his own books and lectures, but there’s a thrill and enthusiasm here that can be a little dry elsewhere.
Campbell indicates that like Toynbee’s challenge / response of civilizations that sink or swim, this applies to individuals too. Prevail over modernity’s challenge and new life can take flight. The good news is we can make our own way, provide our own purpose. The bad news is, unlike the ancients who did all this for us without choice, we’re on our own. We still have the old ways in print, or as a terminal moraine of their retreat, but for many of us, they no longer sing but can only stutter or remain mute. Campbell claims that from 2000 BC to 1800 AD ours was an established agrarian world (though ag is about 10,000 years old), already removed and evolved from 30 millennia of hunter-gatherer lifeways. During those long periods the human social horizon was clear, problems and their solutions known. Industrial Age exploded all that, with Information Age ensuring no connection can remain established. “We try to understand the old systems,” says Campbell, “but we don’t feel them anymore.” The old ways mythologized every aspect and activity of life with direct relevance to the great mysteries of our own short existence. But that’s dead now, replaced by a materialistic “it” mentality, vs. the old “thou” perspective. These technological revolutions and their consequent shift in outlook have more than anything else eradicated our external reference in nature, where the goddesses and gods once resided. With extermination of the Great Plains buffalo, notes Campbell, Native Americans lost the reference their society was built on and with that loss began an inward turn, perhaps not unlike the calamities of Axial Age that gave us the Buddha, prophets, and reason of the Greeks. We’ve been without nature for so long we’re afraid of it. So citified we’re solidified. Politics and economics that now dominate civilization are killers of myth and mystery and thus that part of our human nature unmoored without it. Campbell provides the evolution of this simultaneous assent and decline, how things once were, and how they can be again in our personal sphere under constant pressure by modernity’s assault and advantage.
What Campbell does here is offer an escape from modernity’s collapse of meaning through a potential to reframe us and our surroundings. (I’m reminded of the same message from The Great Course’s No Excuses Existentialism earlier reviewed.) Armed with history, philosophy, psychology, religion and myth, Campbell makes connections between seemingly unrelated things. Either they once had that connection all could grasp, now lost, or Campbell reveals for us what few if any have seen. Not infrequently we’re reminded of points he’s made elsewhere with Bill Moyers or in his own books and lectures, but there’s a thrill and enthusiasm here that can be a little dry elsewhere.
Campbell indicates that like Toynbee’s challenge / response of civilizations that sink or swim, this applies to individuals too. Prevail over modernity’s challenge and new life can take flight. The good news is we can make our own way, provide our own purpose. The bad news is, unlike the ancients who did all this for us without choice, we’re on our own. We still have the old ways in print, or as a terminal moraine of their retreat, but for many of us, they no longer sing but can only stutter or remain mute. Campbell claims that from 2000 BC to 1800 AD ours was an established agrarian world (though ag is about 10,000 years old), already removed and evolved from 30 millennia of hunter-gatherer lifeways. During those long periods the human social horizon was clear, problems and their solutions known. Industrial Age exploded all that, with Information Age ensuring no connection can remain established. “We try to understand the old systems,” says Campbell, “but we don’t feel them anymore.” The old ways mythologized every aspect and activity of life with direct relevance to the great mysteries of our own short existence. But that’s dead now, replaced by a materialistic “it” mentality, vs. the old “thou” perspective. These technological revolutions and their consequent shift in outlook have more than anything else eradicated our external reference in nature, where the goddesses and gods once resided. With extermination of the Great Plains buffalo, notes Campbell, Native Americans lost the reference their society was built on and with that loss began an inward turn, perhaps not unlike the calamities of Axial Age that gave us the Buddha, prophets, and reason of the Greeks. We’ve been without nature for so long we’re afraid of it. So citified we’re solidified. Politics and economics that now dominate civilization are killers of myth and mystery and thus that part of our human nature unmoored without it. Campbell provides the evolution of this simultaneous assent and decline, how things once were, and how they can be again in our personal sphere under constant pressure by modernity’s assault and advantage.
January 30, 2023
This collection is not nearly as polished as the Power of Myth lectures which Campbell is known for, but I love it all the more for that reason. Here, he seems at home, more keen to jokes and voicing frustrations; here, he is much more human, and human to a fault — that’s important, I think, if one is going to take up Campbell’s companionship, mythology, or this whole attempt at life thing.
There is so much skepticism and pessimism in the human condition that people like Joseph Campbell often sound out of touch with reality, lucky, or privileged. All of these things may be true, but what is also true is that their message speaks to another part of living, the part that recognizes and wonders at hope, belief, and the power of the human spirit.
And with regard to that part of life, he says:
“Follow your bliss.”
There is so much skepticism and pessimism in the human condition that people like Joseph Campbell often sound out of touch with reality, lucky, or privileged. All of these things may be true, but what is also true is that their message speaks to another part of living, the part that recognizes and wonders at hope, belief, and the power of the human spirit.
And with regard to that part of life, he says:
“Follow your bliss.”
August 9, 2018
I first began listening to and reading Campbell during my college years. Decades later, I still find him to be brilliant, wise, inspiring & necessary. This interview series is a good survey of his teaching. He did not like the idea of following gurus, so I’ll just call him a wise teacher of how to live.
December 9, 2018
These various radio interviews with the late Joseph Campbell give a good overview of his very moving ideas about myth, mythology and the need to "follow your bliss." Campbell is even more relevant today than he ever was. If you want to delve more into his teaching read "The Hero With a Thousand Faces."
February 17, 2016
Powerful. I love this quote:
"(The vision quest) is the basic myth. It is the quest of anybody, for instance, in this world that we're in now, which seems to be disengaged from vision, it's the quest for the visionary relationship to that world that's a defined, spiritual relationship to the world that you're in. As the world changes, the vision quest changes as well.
Now the first visions were those of the shamans... the shaman's deities were his own, private familiars whom he discovered in vision. The deities of a larger social group are inherited by the tribe and the priest is the officer of those deities; he doesn't necessarily experience them as the shaman does.
Now that poetic experience is what we've got to have again. It's much easier to have a poetic experience in the beautiful mountains and forests of California than it is to have the poetic experience in the factories in the factories, let's say, of Detroit, but that's where it's got to go. And the vision quest to reactivate our world has to deal with our world." - Joseph Campbell
"(The vision quest) is the basic myth. It is the quest of anybody, for instance, in this world that we're in now, which seems to be disengaged from vision, it's the quest for the visionary relationship to that world that's a defined, spiritual relationship to the world that you're in. As the world changes, the vision quest changes as well.
Now the first visions were those of the shamans... the shaman's deities were his own, private familiars whom he discovered in vision. The deities of a larger social group are inherited by the tribe and the priest is the officer of those deities; he doesn't necessarily experience them as the shaman does.
Now that poetic experience is what we've got to have again. It's much easier to have a poetic experience in the beautiful mountains and forests of California than it is to have the poetic experience in the factories in the factories, let's say, of Detroit, but that's where it's got to go. And the vision quest to reactivate our world has to deal with our world." - Joseph Campbell
July 26, 2016
Almost anything interview-ish with Joseph Campbell is bound to be good at a minimum. This recording is no exception, and was an easy listen as well. The recording quality varies a little bit, but all of it is clear enough to hear over road noise in a car.
The only complaint I have with it is that the content is slightly repetitive. The format is a series of recordings that happened over several years. However, in almost every recording, some of the other recordings are re-hashed, which is great for committing the lessons to memory but slightly disappointing for those expecting five hours of unique content.
It may not be a fair juxtaposition, but if you have to choose a single Joseph Campbell program of roughly equivalent size, I would opt for The Power of Myth (which I pick up at least once a year at various spots). It's formatted such that I can easily focus on topics/chapters or listen to the whole thing in an extended sitting. I'm glad I purchased and listened to The Wisdom of Joseph Campbell but probably won't go through it again in the next few years.
The only complaint I have with it is that the content is slightly repetitive. The format is a series of recordings that happened over several years. However, in almost every recording, some of the other recordings are re-hashed, which is great for committing the lessons to memory but slightly disappointing for those expecting five hours of unique content.
It may not be a fair juxtaposition, but if you have to choose a single Joseph Campbell program of roughly equivalent size, I would opt for The Power of Myth (which I pick up at least once a year at various spots). It's formatted such that I can easily focus on topics/chapters or listen to the whole thing in an extended sitting. I'm glad I purchased and listened to The Wisdom of Joseph Campbell but probably won't go through it again in the next few years.
June 22, 2016
Learn from others who have achieved a high spiritual level makes you see that the goal is attainable ...
In the case of the book "The Wisdom of Joseph Campbell" Joseph Campbell with Michael Toms I got important lessons and reminders:
- All men are one species, fighting for things like religion, color, etc., makes no sense.
- Having a guru or spiritual master is good, but we must leavening at the adequate moment. Otherwise you will always be a child on the spiritual path.
- All religions arrive at the same destination. But do not take the myths of religions rather than as metaphors, and see the bottom in them.
Anyway, very good book. If you are a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, etc., but open-minded, it will provide enriching lessons.
In the case of the book "The Wisdom of Joseph Campbell" Joseph Campbell with Michael Toms I got important lessons and reminders:
- All men are one species, fighting for things like religion, color, etc., makes no sense.
- Having a guru or spiritual master is good, but we must leavening at the adequate moment. Otherwise you will always be a child on the spiritual path.
- All religions arrive at the same destination. But do not take the myths of religions rather than as metaphors, and see the bottom in them.
Anyway, very good book. If you are a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, etc., but open-minded, it will provide enriching lessons.
October 29, 2017
Enlightening
April 23, 2013
75-87, relaxed relationship with other humans in America vs Europe, capacity for suffering and empathy, risk to find life, money taken to live causes slavery, meditate to escape life, miss life when miss learning, wisdom not from knowledge, wisdom from heart and experience, crime from dissolution of family, need for prayer at home, we are one with each other, conflict between creator and security, we create our gods, female transforms naturally male moves self, dragons guard without knowledge hold onto life, reproduce, aggression, not transparent to transcendence.
February 21, 2024
This is absolutely wonderful insight into Joseph Campbell in the form of live interviews. The dialogue is recorded over a twelve year period and captures the ideas and personality of the master himself. Recommended for anyone interested in learning more about the world and Joseph Campbell’s genius.
January 21, 2008
I love to listen to interviews with Joseph Campbell. He was a brilliant scholar of world mythology and religion. His insights illuminate the deeper meanings found in the common themes throughout so many of our ancient traditions and wisdom literature.
June 2, 2009
I guess this is an "audio book." I downloaded it with a free trial for Audible, since I'm not very interested in (read: don't have the attention span for) actual audio books. I like Joseph Campbell.
March 14, 2012
Joseph continues to astound me with his insight, humor and application of cross cultural mythologies. These stories are from his later years and reflect a man who is looking at life retrospectively. Thank you Michael for sharing your conversations with "Joe."
October 12, 2015
Excellent but I'd recommend the "The power of myth" first as there's less repetition in that audio work than here. The other's better edited, I suppose. They more or less cover the same ground, though, and are both very good.
August 4, 2012
A series of good talks with my favorite spiritual thinker. The questions and answers become slightly repetitive, but if you like Joe you won't mind.
February 5, 2013
This was read via audio book with the extra gift of Joseph Campbell's voice. What a mind. I listened to it over and over again. It's only about 5 or 6 hours and well worth every minute of them.
June 25, 2015
Exquisite!
Read
November 25, 2015Greatness!!! Needs multiple reads.
Read
May 29, 2016Read Harder - book about religion
February 4, 2016
A good introduction to Campbell's principles of myths.
April 18, 2017
This book compiles a handful of great interviews and lectures from Joseph Campbell. There's a great deal of insight regarding the human conditions and the stories we tell.
January 22, 2022
Wonderful insight, I wish it wasn't in audio as I take many notes but the ones that hit me the most are the following:
Mythological order
1. Mystical - realization of that transcendence of that appearance of the separation of the phenomenal world and the one shines through
2. cosmological - manifestation of that transcendence; essence of poetry, essence of art to show the radiance shining through time and space
3. sociological - social order of unity not tribal
4. pedagogical - carrying the individual through the stages of their life
Rituals are the enactment of myth. Participation in the Ritual is a participation in the Myth. Ritual > Myth > puts the individual in accord with their inner wisdom. The wisdom that is inherit within us. Anyhow, the individual consciousness is being reminded of the wisdom of their life.
Mythology is the language of "discourse" between our unconscious system (spiritual life that shapes our body) and the intellect which is regarding the outer world thinking in terms of practical facts and so forth. The intellect has to learn to read these symbolically. Myth - is the study of the present.
I will admit ritual, rites of passage, sacred stories are being lost in a sea of noise; most dominantly in the landscape of politics, rent-seeking faceless corporations aligned with elites, and more trivial self-created problems that we miss the bigger picture of humanity into the microcosm of tribalism...
Mythological order
1. Mystical - realization of that transcendence of that appearance of the separation of the phenomenal world and the one shines through
2. cosmological - manifestation of that transcendence; essence of poetry, essence of art to show the radiance shining through time and space
3. sociological - social order of unity not tribal
4. pedagogical - carrying the individual through the stages of their life
Rituals are the enactment of myth. Participation in the Ritual is a participation in the Myth. Ritual > Myth > puts the individual in accord with their inner wisdom. The wisdom that is inherit within us. Anyhow, the individual consciousness is being reminded of the wisdom of their life.
Mythology is the language of "discourse" between our unconscious system (spiritual life that shapes our body) and the intellect which is regarding the outer world thinking in terms of practical facts and so forth. The intellect has to learn to read these symbolically. Myth - is the study of the present.
I will admit ritual, rites of passage, sacred stories are being lost in a sea of noise; most dominantly in the landscape of politics, rent-seeking faceless corporations aligned with elites, and more trivial self-created problems that we miss the bigger picture of humanity into the microcosm of tribalism...
April 27, 2024
I liked this far better than "The Power of Myth" which I found to be a little disappointing. This is worth listening to again. It was mostly recorded in the late 1970s and what's amazing how prescient some aspects are like with all the diversity and multiculturalism people still want to form their like minded communities. Look at today's world! Now more than ever where multiculturalism is destroying the west.
Interesting learning about other religions like Buddhism and Campbell's non-literal bible interpretation (hard to argue against it). He makes a good point on following your bliss and how when one is young they can do so bc they don't need a great deal of money to exist. HOWEVER times have changed since his youth in the 1920s. Bidenomics inflation make that impossible. You used to be able to exist being a starving student. Today you would be the homeless student (even the homeless employee). He's right about following your bliss BUT that can also bite you in the ass today as that risk can take you nowhere. It's up to you to make your own path as Campbell discusses. Interesting and certainly thought provoking.
Interesting learning about other religions like Buddhism and Campbell's non-literal bible interpretation (hard to argue against it). He makes a good point on following your bliss and how when one is young they can do so bc they don't need a great deal of money to exist. HOWEVER times have changed since his youth in the 1920s. Bidenomics inflation make that impossible. You used to be able to exist being a starving student. Today you would be the homeless student (even the homeless employee). He's right about following your bliss BUT that can also bite you in the ass today as that risk can take you nowhere. It's up to you to make your own path as Campbell discusses. Interesting and certainly thought provoking.
January 4, 2018
One of the most moving and touching audiobooks I have ever listened to.
Joseph has the ability to let you soar with him in a limitless universe of thoughts and deep emotions. Were he shows you how human, myths, God and spirituality intersect in multiple aspects of life.
All I can say, whom ever wants to listen to Joseph he/she should prepare his/her mind and heart to such deep and magnificent journey ..
Joseph has the ability to let you soar with him in a limitless universe of thoughts and deep emotions. Were he shows you how human, myths, God and spirituality intersect in multiple aspects of life.
All I can say, whom ever wants to listen to Joseph he/she should prepare his/her mind and heart to such deep and magnificent journey ..
May 9, 2020
I go back often to this amazing audiobook with Micheal asking Joseph some amazing questions and Joseph never disappoints. It's almost, in my own experience, talks about modern situations occurring back then so relevant to NOW. I love this audiobook. There's a speech Joseph did in the end at some university and it pure gold. I hear it ever 6 months to recalibrate.
April 4, 2021
Years ago I learned of Joseph Campbell and decided too collect his boss so I could read them and better understand what he had to say. Now decades have passes and this program inspires me and simulates me to follow that old ambition.. it will be interesting to see if he speaks to the contemporary world the way he spoke to that earlier time.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 38 reviews