Beata’s Comments (group member since Oct 28, 2021)

Beata’s comments from the Gathering Of Dedicated Scribblers group.

Hi Marcia!
I love your questions! :)
There are actually 3 options that I see in genre fiction, in romance specifically:
1. Shorter chapters with single POV (you do not need to meet Coursera guidelines with every chapter)
2. The timelines do not need to match up until they meet again: it's okay if one protagonist has a packed 3 months, while the other has a single-scene chapter somewhere in the middle of the timeline. As long as their paths do not cross, there's no continuity error).
3. Forget one character, follow the one with a more interesting story arc, and when we catch up to the other protagonist, a quick summary (that could even include a brief flashback to the period we skipped) brings us back to the same place.

I hope this helps.

I agree with Andres that you should not let yourself get bogged down with research. To quote Brandon Sanderson: “Write it badly, write it badly, write it badly… let it become good later. Write it down now. Otherwise, it will die in your head.” If your lack of sufficient knowledge is creating a writer’s block, just write what you know and fill in the blanks in “postproduction.”

That said, there is a point that neds to be made: Detail is what makes fiction believable, authentic and immersive. Especially in realist settings, where you are confronted with a world that already exists in your reader’s mind. In the example of the sex scene, you draw on your reader’s understanding of what is essentially part of every adult’s life. I would not go as far as to say that the inner workings of law enforcement is something most people are familiar with. So it won’t do to just wave your hands and say: “And then they did what all agents do and that’s how they caught the guy.” If I’m not familiar with something, I want specifics, I want detail, not just the broad strokes. I want to see and to understand.

So yes, research is essential to get things right, but you don’t have to get it all right straight away. The easiest way to make sure your story makes sense is to ask a person familiar with the area you’re describing. You can work out the nuts and bolts of the subplot after you’ve completed the first draft. Or you can workshop your problem. Ask the question on a brainstorming forum (e.g. Scribophile has such a group), e.g. how would an agent set up a sting operation targeting a human trafficking ring? Or even more specific. I’m sure there are plenty of people with enough expertise to help you out.

Also, getting new ideas while you’re doing research is unavoidable, but it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. It can propel your story towards something unexpected and sometimes even better. Going back to my earlier example. I originally used a cloud server for something that had no business being on a cloud. I asked some experts and with their help I figured out how to solve the subplot. I had to rewrite some scenes but that added yet another layer to my main story arc and I am much happier with it now.

To reiterate: if you are afraid research will take you down a rabbit hole, write what you know now, and leave placeholders for your first round of revisions. Yes, too much research can be distracting and it can derail your entire process. You know your writing process best so you have to decide whether it is something you want to do now or after completing the first draft.

I would talk to someone with a decent understanding of white collar crime if you can swing that.

If that's not an option, I would suggest Grisham's "The firm", but it's dated by now and some things might have changed.

Perhaps news stories about federal sting operations could be a place to start, to get familiar with the terminology.

Then there's the series "FBI," but I haven't seen it yet so I can’t really recommend it.

I had a similar problem with a tech subplot. Even after a ton of research, I went one way and it turned out to be a dead end - I chose the wrong technology. It actually made me rewrite three chapters, but the result is much better, I think.

So I would do rudimentary research before writing these chapters, but I wouldn't go too deep -- not to lose the momentum you've developed. Then, after the first draft is complete, you can always revise. Who know, maybe some Coursera reviewers will be able to help with that?

Thanks. :)

The whole Markham-Adrian-Tyler-Sophia battle of wits comes from an idea I was once playing with:

If you put

- Sherlock Holmes (Markham),
- Mr. Robot (Tyler),
- Cal Lightman from "Lie to Me" - a series about detecting microexpressions - (Adrian)
- and Sydney Bristow from "Alias" (Sophia)

in one room playing against each other - Who would come out on top? :)

Thank you so much! These are all priceless tips! I will go through them one by one and work them into the scene in revision.

Yeah, the CMG is now an AK-47. I changed that. :) I believe my research followed some rabbit hole into the origins of the Brotherhood after WW2 and this was the gun I came across.

You've hit 60k since December? Wow, you are prolific! ;)
If you would like an outside perspective, I would be happy to take a look at what you've got so far.
As I am writing a trilogy, I know a thing or two about intertwining plotlines and the mess they can create. I'm not sure if I have the right solutions, though.

Hi Andres!
I've posted my chapters 11-13 on Coursera and if you find the time, I would be really grateful for your input. I'm coming upon a fork in the road and I could use some advice. I'm assuming you remember my story and the big reveal in chapter 10 (which you guessed in chapter 4)? :)

Anyway, I hope you enjoy my male MC's version of the story.


Chapter 11 (In revision I'll change the guns to AK-47s)

https://www.coursera.org/learn/write-...

Chapter 12

https://www.coursera.org/learn/write-...

Chapter 13

https://www.coursera.org/learn/write-...

Hi Marcia! I left you a review on chapter 2. Looking forward to further installments.

I think that once you establish your characters' voices, it shouldn't be a problem for the reader to immediately tell whose POV is in which chapter. If you want to submit longer chapters, I see no problem with that, either. Most of my chapters are between 3 and 4k words. One chapter is even 5k heavy. No one has complained thus far. :)

One of the things that the course is not designed to accommodate is a longer second act. My second act is significantly longer than the first (which is the norm in most genres anyway), so I have to jam much more into chapters 8-14. Sometimes I blatantly pack two chapters into one. If you have a dedicated critique group, they shouldn’t mind. And feedback from a random reviewer on an individual chapter is usually only marginally helpful, at least in terms of plot and character development, which for me are the most important aspects when writing the first draft.

"3. Romance or gore?
Romance... although I do get happy when the cheater gets violently ill and might die."

Oh, I'm behind that 100%!! ;)

Hi Marcia,

It’s lovely to meet you. I left you a review on your chapter 1. I hope you don’t mind I decided to dive straight into the novel before reading your character outlines. This way I can form my own conclusions about your characters and then compare them with what you had in mind.

In my opinion, it is helpful to have a few specific questions for your reviewers. I usually include them before the chapter itself, e.g. What did you think about the pacing? Did you like the voice of my protagonist? It’s probably more useful in later chapters. Just a thought.

I really liked your chapter 1. I’m writing in a similar genre: a suspense thriller with a romantic subplot, also in close 3rd POV, past tense. I’ve written most of the novel, but I’m now revising my second act, because one of the subplots did not work as well as I had intended.

I tried to stick to the 2500-word limit too, but in act 2 I realized I have too many plot points to cover and my chapters got much longer. I wouldn’t worry about exceeding the word limit.
I hope you find my review useful in some way.

All the best,

Beata

That sounds like a ton of research. It's is a fascinating period: How the plague made its way slowly across the continent and how some countries came up with methods of slowing down its spread through quarantine. The conflics that arose and the social upheaval it brought. Share some more once you've written your chapters.

Alan wrote: "Hi Beata! Nice to meet you. I am writing about the period of the Black Plague entering Europe circa 1345-1353. I am still working on a title to the novel.

Hi Alan, great to have you here.
If you want to share your work, start a thread under Coursera Reviews with the title of your novel and post links to your chapters. How far along are you?
What period are you writing about?

Does this mean that lowers can't operate the magic items as effectively as the highers? Because of limited sun exposure? And they need batteries to charge them, right?
I definitely prefer magic items to spells. There's so much potential in a well crafted object. Readers get attached to objects way more than to foreign sounding spells, IMO.
I also like how you've replaced "uppers" with "highers". It's got a better ring to it (not to mention avoiding confusing connotations).

We also have covid in the house. I just spent a week playing nurse to 2 elderly people and 2 kids. Don't know which was worse: the cranky and disobedient ones or the little ones. ;-)
Luckily, me and my husband had our booster shots before we got infected, so we were spared.
Stay strong!

Thank you sooooo much! You have no idea how much it means to me that you read it. And your words of encouragement make me wanna buckle down and finish it. :-)

I'm so relieved you found the awkward romantic entanglement between my protagonists humorous. I wasn't sure how it would come across. And the cultural references (e.g. plato de oro) are also priceless. I hope you don't mind if I use some of your suggestions word-for-word, because they are brilliant!

Awesome, thanks. I can't wait to read your notes. They've been a tremendous help so far.

You have given me a lot to think about. It’s really insightful.
I was planning on exploring PTSD more with another of the characters (who only appeared once so far but will be more prominent in the latter half of the book).

I am so glad you picked up on the significance of the knife in her story (the title is a strong hint, I guess). I did have the idea that knives are a sort of a crutch for Sophia, that she is drawn to them, they give her a sense of power. They are often on her mind: the plastic knife, the first knife she got from Paco and carved her initials on the water tower, the knife she takes from the drawer and immediately refers to as "hers". She reflects on knives even during the intense confrontation with her cousin.

As for her depression, the way I built the character in my mind is that she’s dealing with abandonment issues due to her mother leaving (which will be explored more in act 2 and 3), which is why she finds it difficult to put down roots in the first place. Her vagabond lifestyle suits her more than she is willing to admit. It should become clearer later on in the book.

Thank you again for all your help!

But the one reviewer who did get to chapter 8 (but skipped chapters 2 and 3) pointed out that she should have a serious PTSD, which I agree with, and I think I should color the subsequent chapters a little differently. I will keep that in mind as I revise.

Yes, although it's going slowly. My writers group is still on chapter 6 at best (some are on chapter 4). But their feedback is mostly chapter-specific: what works and what I could improve within each individual chapter. No one guessed Adam's identity yet, probably because they've been reading it over such a long period of time, they keep forgetting what happened before. :-)