Patricrk’s Comments (group member since Jan 18, 2010)

Patricrk’s comments from the Alternate History group.

Just finished by Harry Turtledove This is a continuation of the the War that came early series where world war II starts in 1938 with the invasion of Czechoslovakia. It is written in the same style and while interesting I only give it three stars.

James wrote: "James wrote: "Patricrk wrote: "Bookbrow wrote: "There are 3 books of alternative fiction that I have really enjoyed, they are almost classics of the genre. Bring the jubilee by Ward Moore, the sett..."

I'll look for it.

Just finished by Eric Flint one of my favorite authors. This alternate history starts with the premise that Sam Houston is not badly injuried at the battle of Horseshoe bend and is therefore available to defend the capital from the British and fight a smaller battle of New Orleans instead. It was suppose to be a series but I can't find a sequal. Available in Baen Free Library.

A mystery set around the impeachment trial of Lincoln who survived the Booth assassination attempt. Interesting reading if you like Civil War era material.

book 4 in the war that came early series. Continues to follow the characters in the earlier books. I enjoyed it and gave it four stars.

Tyler wrote: "Don't know if many of you have read the Years of Rice And Salt, but its on my (large) pile of books to read. Without spoiling, did you guys enjoy it?"

Its been awhile, but yes I did enjoy it. The book is based on a 99% kill rate though, not 90%.

Gweeptish wrote: "!632 by Eric Flint is a good read. It, in my opinion, equals L. Sprague de Camp's Lest Darkness Fall."

I agree. I've also liked the rest of the series. There is just so many story lines in this series.

I haven't read this but it looks interesting.

the theory I work from is that without Roman "peace" over the whole mediterranean area, that Christianity would not have spread or even arisen. Without the influence of Judeo-Christianity into Arabia then Mohammed would not have been inspired to create his own revelation and Islam would not have arisen. I am of course arrogant in this assertation in never having read the Koran, studied Islam or Zoroastrianism. I have no real basis in judging the relative contribution of the precursor religions to Islam. The fact that Jews and Christians were tolerated in Islam while all others were forced to convert or die seems to argue for a higher influence from Judeo-Christianity than from Persia.

by Harry Turtledove

2nd book in the series of what would it have been like if world war II had started in 1938 when Britain and France had not backed down over Czechoslovakia. Follows a lot of different story lines and somewhat confusing but you get a view of China, Siberia, France, Norway, Poland and Spain. Interesting.

Richard wrote: "John Maddox Roberts in an unfinished series starting with Hannibal's Children. Starts a century or so after Hannibal's victory. Rome has re-established itself in Germania, and is planning a come back."

Thats the book I was trying to remember. Interesting question in comment 3. Does Islam get established if Rome doesn't set the stage?

I've read something sort of like that but I can't remember the title or author. The Romans are banished to the North and the series starts when they reappear several century later. Germans with Roman dicipline and war technology. Not a modern time what-if.

Dave wrote: "I am not sure it was a possibility. They simply did not have the manpower to make a breakout move on the Western Front nor did they have the naval power to contest the Royal Navy. That said, Impe..."

I think there were two periods where the Germans came very close to winning the war. At the first before the western front became deadlocked with trenches. And, the second after they were able to transfer the bulk of the Eastern Army to the western front. The alternate history I suggested was assuming they won it at the start of the war. If they won it at the end of the war, you probably get Stalin but not Hitler.

Josh wrote: "Ottoman Empire was going to fail - it was just a matter of time. Also, the Ottoman Empire in 1914 did not control Arabia except for loose control of the Red Sea shore. So while they would have th..."

Since the Ottoman Empire had been sick for several hundred years but still functioning, I don't think its early demise can be assumed. Especially if the young Turks come to influence and shape the extended empire. Without British backing of the Arabs I sort of assumed the Turks would reconquer the Arabs especially as their German advisers and suppliers would be plentiful. It is really hard to pull together convincing arguments on what-if scenarios and I can't really argue with anything you have stated.

Loren wrote: "I know there's alot of books about Nazi Germany winning and the Turtledove Series following the US/CS had the US/Germany winning World War I setting the stage for a Nazi-CSA, but does anyone know o..."

I asked that same question over on a History Book group and got the same answer you gave. Try Turtledove. I've read most of Turtledove and I don't recall any with this premise.

My personal thoughts on the matter are. That if you assume that Germany wins early and the diplomats patch up a piece, then there will be no communist dictatorship in Russia, no communist movement in the world. The Ottoman empire remains intact and the bulk of the world oil reserves are now controlled by it. Germany remains the dominant nation in Europe and gradually moves to a monarchy patterned after
England. Austria retains a large hold on the Balkans.
China remains locked in a struggle between the war lords and the Republic. Japan refuses to return German's colonies and there is a naval war between these two countries for several years which finally ends with Japan triumphant and more aggressive than ever. The USA never have gotten into the war remains a third rate power with an even more isolationist outlook. The British empire remains as is. France becomes dominated by a very conservative government but is unable to do anything about revenge due to the overwhelming power of Germany. There is no Israel nor holocaust and the major power blocs are a British and German Empire alliance against the Ottomans.

Patrick wrote: "That of course assumes the colonists were successful in their fight for independence. If they had not been the future approach of the British Empire toward its possessions might have been totally d..."

I don't know a lot of the history of Virginia. It isn't taught in Texas. But for Tarleton to be in Virginia it was probably when Cornwallis came north. At this point in time, I don't see Jefferson being that important in the war, so I think the war still finishes with American liberty.

Patrick wrote: "First off,I live in Charlottesville, Va where as they say people talk about Thomas Jefferson "as if he were in the next room."
Which brings us to a "what if?" In the American Revolution British c..."

I vote for no real change. Western expansion would have a different person (Aaron Burr?) driving it and our diplomatic history with France would have been different. We might have joined the British to fight the French!

Josh wrote: "Has anyone else read "Hitler's War" aka book 1 of his new series "The War That Came Early"?

I thought it has its merits and moments, but doesn't really escape the repetitiveness of Settling Accounts."

I read it several months ago. I found it somewhat disjointed but also hard to put down.

Bookbrow wrote: "There are 3 books of alternative fiction that I have really enjoyed, they are almost classics of the genre. Bring the jubilee by Ward Moore, the setting is that the south has won the civil war and ..." Do you know if there is book starting with the premise that the central powers win world war I in the first 90 days?

Liberating Atlantis Harry Turtledove I've enjoyed all these Atlantis series. I would recommend them all.