Time Travel discussion

About the Author

Robert Anson Heinlein was an American novelist and science fiction writer. Often called "the dean of science fiction writers", he is one of the most popular, influential, and controversial authors of "hard science fiction". He set a high standard for science and engineering plausibility and helped to raise the genre's standards of literary quality. He was the first writer to break into mainstream, general magazines such as The Saturday Evening Post, in the late 1940s, with unvarnished science fiction. He was among the first authors of bestselling, novel-length science fiction in the modern, mass-market era.

About the Book:

The Door Into Summer (1957)

Electronics engineer Dan Davis has finally made the invention of a lifetime: a household robot with extraordinary abilities, destined to dramatically change the landscape of everyday routine. Then, with wild success just within reach, Dan's greedy partner and greedier fiancée trick him into taking the long sleep--suspended animation for thirty years. They never imagine that the future time in which Dan will awaken has mastered time travel, giving him a way to get back to them--and at them . . .

Where to Find:
*Free to borrow from your local library
*Cheap used from Amazon, B&N, and other stores
*$7.99 paperback from Barnes and Noble (link below)
*$6.99 Nook ebook from Barnes and Noble (link below)

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/door-...

When to Read:
October 4th - November 3rd

Spoilers:
Please use spoiler tags when discussing spoilers. To learn how to, please click on the "(some html is okay)" link on the far right above the "comment" box, you will see how to use spoiler tags.

Just ordered it from the library. I think I might have read this as a kid. We'll see... :)

I probably read it decades ago, too, but as I don't remember it, I'm glad of an excuse to re-read it with you-all. Picked up A Heinlein Trio from the library (they didn't have Door alone) and will probably read it tonite.

Well I'm done. As I was reading I remembered I've actually read it less than a decade ago - and each time I read it I like it less. Good book for open discussion, not so good for enjoyable reading.

Wow, Cheryl. I haven't even started yet. Hope I can whip through it as fast as you did.

Cheryl, you're a super fast reader, you seem get through as many books as I do with movies, lol.

Well, I'm at the halfway point and I must say this is turning out to be very entertaining thus far. The author's prediction of what the year 2000 will be like is a bit off (view spoiler)[(i.e. the 21st Century lingo and the devaluation of gold) (hide spoiler)], but it's interesting to see what he thought society would be like 40+ years into his future.

I've yet to start the book which I hope will be in a few days after I finish with my current one.

But lets get the first customary discussion question rolling which everyone can answer at this point.

DISCUSSION QUESTION 1: What Robert Heinlen books have you read in the past and have you enjoyed his work?


Please feel free to add Discussion questions as we progress through the book read.

I have only read one other book by Heinlen. The book was called "Friday," and I read it back when I was in High School but I honestly don't remember much about it. I think a friend had recommended it to me.

Hi, I've never read his books. I assume, "The Door into Summer" is the one for this month..? If so, I need to buy it.

I have read all of Heinlein's fiction (have not dipped into his autobiogrpahical material). I would not pick FRIDAY as his best work; probably the most thrilling of his novels is MOON ISH A HARSH MISTRESS (which won a Nebula and a Hugo award). His juveniles (STAR BEAST and so forth) are classics of the genre and are still a blast.

I have owned 3 of his paperback novels for over a decade but never got round to reading them and to be honest, now that I am more ebook inclined, they may be doomed to jut looking pretty on the book shelf.

I am puzzled at myself as to why I have ignored his books, considering he was considered as one of the 3 big scifi authors along with Arthur C Clark and Asimov. So I am glad I now have this opportunity to put that right.

I've read a lot of Heinlein. I do plan to read/reread some more, the ones I happen to own, and it will be interesting to see if I still consider any of them worth reading, after being so disappointed by this.

I do remember twice, over time, enjoying The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. And I recall Job: A Comedy of Justice being interesting.

I have not read any Heinlein, but this group is introducing me to many great author's I may have otherwise not discovered!

I read a lot of Sci-Fi as a kid and Heinlein was a favorite. I read "The Puppet Masters," "The Cat Who Walks through Walls" and also "Stranger in a Strange Land" plus others. I don't remember having read this one and am enjoying it so far. It evokes a noir feeling in me.

I think The Door into Summer is not only Heinlein's best book, but one of the 2-3 best time travel novels ever written.

Heinlein's juvenile classics include "Have Space Suit—Will Travel", "Farmer in the Sky", "Space Cadet" and "Rocket Ship Galileo". These are all great novels, and still read well. He has at least two other stories that involve time travel, "By His Bootstraps" and "All You Zombies", but I have not yet read the latter. Many science fiction fans adore Heinlein; one of my friends named his first son using Heinlein's middle name.

Heather wrote: "I have not read any Heinlein, but this group is introducing me to many great author's I may have otherwise not discovered!"

I concur! Since joining and despite the group's narrowed down specific genre, I do still feel I have broadened my horizons in reading various celebrated authors.

I will start reading this book today, was always looking forward to this one tbh. It may even convince me to read those paperbacks on my bookshelf (despite my ebook inclination), one of which is "Have Space Suit - Will Travel" which Dan recommends and one I had since my early teens.

I finished it the other day. It was a quick read. Good stuff. I wrote a full review on my profile. Not sure how much we're supposed to discuss here, but it was good. Not as much time-travel as I expected, but I guess it was enough to get the story told.

You can discuss anything and everything about the book, Steve. Oh and I like the review, nice and concise.

I'm liking the sound of the book more and more, as I think a time travel plot device should only serve the narrtive and not dominate at the sacrifice of story, character and relationship developments.

I just read the first page, yep page one. What an endearing and wonderful opening. All the signs of a great storyteller just from that first page. I am already attached to Pete the cat...and I dont even like cats!

Space wrote: "I finished it the other day. It was a quick read. Good stuff. I wrote a full review on my profile.

I felt the same way about Ricky! I think Heinlein was trying to make it better by contrasting the different feelings Dan had for Ricky when he saw her as a child vs. when he sees her as an adult. But he saw her from far away as an adult for a few minutes at most to see that she has now grown into a beautiful young woman. Which brought me to not liking that based on her childhood crush he asked her to give up all other relationships and get engaged as a child! I tried to just look at the story and not be picky but I think these are legitimate concerns. I think this book has to be read as a very very light-hearted read. That's what I did anyway.

Tej wrote: "I just read the first page, yep page one. What an endearing and wonderful opening. All the signs of a great storyteller just from that first page. I am already attached to Pete the cat...and I do..."

I think Heinlein loved cats. They are featured in many of his books... :)

I mentioned what I thought about Ricky above... now I have time to touch on some of my other thoughts. The plot was very creative. I also thought Heinlein really delved into his characters for us, especially Dan, Belle, and Pete. Who wouldn't love Pete? And I am a dog person. I thought it was an enjoyable read that all fit together neatly in a nice package in the end. I did see where everything was going and I'm not usually good at that. (after he was tricked into the sleep) I don't think there were any deep issues that made me stop and think, or anything new about the way it was written that made me say WOW. Having said that, I know if I would have read this in 1956, I WOULD have thought this was some awesome stuff. cold sleep! time travel! I can't believe there is a "cold sleep" place 2 neighborhoods over from me!

I haven't read Heinlein before. My husband gave me Stranger in a Strange Land a few years ago, but I've never read it.

I want to point out that while Heinlein's juvenile classics are easy reads, his other books, including "Stranger in a Strange Land" are not in the same category (and I never enjoyed them as much, but perhaps need to go back and read them again since I am much older than the first time I did so). I agree with Brenda's comment that "Friday" is not one of his best works.

Candace wrote: ...he asked her to give up all other relationships and get engaged as a child!

Precisely. What traits could she possibly have retained from childhood that would be useful and attractive to an adult? Not to mention most girls go through such a dramatic change around eighteen years old, that their entire perception of what they want in a man flips.

I would rather have had him promise her he'd meet her and continue to be a father-figure.

Anyway, the rest of the story was solid, even though I could never possibly understand one's connection with a cat.

Okay chapter one finished. I'm not a fan of first person perspective writings but I am totally enamoured towards the protagonist and his cat, full of wit and breezy dialogue.

DISCUSSION QUESTION 2: If circumstances arose now that would have you thinking of going into cryogenic freeze, what would those circumstances be, what year would you want to wake up in and why that year?

Heinlein is famously good for his 'voice', for the way the characters come alive in a very few sentences.

From a purely practical point of view, any cryonic freeze adventure has to take into account the Singularity question. Things are developing faster now than ever before; the theory is that this is parabolic in function. A time traveler from 1800 might be able to cope in 2000, but a similar 200 year jump from now to 2212 might be impossible. So, the trick is to pick a time that you will still be able to cope with. Read Fred Pohl's short story "Day Million" to see what I mean.

No way I'd do it. Unless I could take my kids and wife with me, I would effectively be deserting them. Not a chance.

However, comma, if I were single, and were considering it, I would sign up for the longest sleep they had. If it were five hundred years, think how much the world would have changed. Based on how much different it is now than from the 1500s. It would be ridiculously hi-tech. I would love to see that. Hopefully your money would be good.

Here is a link about "Day Million":
http://everythingisnice.wordpress.com...

It includes the last sentence of the story, which says everything you need.

No, your money probably would not be good. It is also possible that specie (gold, diamonds, etc.) won't be worth anything equivalent.

I would only sleep for three months, just long enough to get out of spending Christmas with my parents and siblings. We don't get along well.

Paul wrote: "I think The Door into Summer is not only Heinlein's best book, but one of the 2-3 best time travel novels ever written."

Why so, Paul?

I'm sorry to hear that, John. I wouldn't mind skipping February & March myself. Other than that, I wouldn't do it either.

I think the cryogenic freeze may be an option if you had a terminal illness, and wanted to be brought back after a cure is found.

John wrote: "I would only sleep for three months, just long enough to get out of spending Christmas with my parents and siblings. We don't get along well."

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that too, John.

And I would never want to abandon my life in this time, no matter what challenges I may face, and I do face a fair few hard times. I'll ride them out like a battle to be won and move on.

But when I get to an old age (I hope) and feel time is nearly up and I find that I am not happy with the progress being made with the damn space exploration, I might want to enter the cryogenic freeze chamber and sleep for the maximum number of years possible. I hope to find myself awoken, staring at a friendly nurse who says to me "Good morning, Sir, I am Nurse Jupiter, how are you feeling?" to which I would reply eagerly "Never mind that, nurse, tell me, is there a manned based station on Mars yet?", "I am afraid not, sir..." "What!? oh blast..." "...see the Solar Union Federation deemed Mars an unfeasible planet to stop over on our way to Kepler 22b. You are now on that starship by the wishes of your great great great great great great grandson, who is the commander of the fleet"

...sorry daydreaming a bit there :)

I don't have a terminal illnesses, but I have a chronic illness which has completely changed my life. No more practicing law, but more time to read! So you would be surprised how many people ask me this question!! I would not take the cold sleep- what good would the medicine do me without the people I love with me. I'd rather not outlive the people I love. I think I'm lucky, I just need to concentrate on quantity time. Nobody knows their time...

This book is very cool. It is even fun reading Heinlein's vision of what it would be like in 1970! I was noodling around on the internet and came up with this "Concordance" which is helpful: http://www.heinleinsociety.org/concor...

If you are concerned about spoilers, don't use it until you are near the end!

Candace, you're right, quality time with loved ones, no other option can better that :)

@Glynn, I agree it really is fun to read Heinlein's vision of the 70s. I wont click on your link until I finish, as you recommend.

I like how the home automation and AI progressed in stages in Heinlens world through the reminiscing of Dan's past. A very realistic progression. (view spoiler)[Top marks to Heinlen for predicting the automated Carpet Cleaner) (hide spoiler)]

It was certainly the most common vision of the future in the 50s. I recall a great animatronics show at the Epcot Centre in Disney World Florida where a 1950s Walt Disney narrates a colourful robotics rich future in the average family home, anyone seen that? Is it still there? was about 15 years ago when I last saw it.

Its the complexity of AI that has been underestimated by these visionary authors. If wasnt for that particular very slow progressing obstacle, that 50s vision of the future (our recent past and present) may well have materialised. At least Japan tries to make a really good stab at it. And of course absolutely no one (at least not to my knowledge) predicted the silicon chip or microscopic electronics.

DISCUSSION QUESTION 3: What are your thoughts on our future with home robotics/AI? Is it still a desire in our homes? What are the pros and cons of every home being dependant on full home automation and where are we at with it, today?

DQ3: Well, I've heard that the Roomba now has siblings, and the needs of soldiers are encouraging progress in prosthetics. But I don't know of anyone who is excited about that touted refrigerator that tells you that you're out of milk. I really don't want more machine help than I have now - I just want what I do have to work (a dishwasher that doesn't require the dishes to be pre-rinsed, and an oven with a consistent temperature).

Q2: Don't think I would consider it. The whole idea seems bizarre to me and using it as a last resort scenario seems like running away.

Q3: I think the home automation thing is advancing but slowly and if ever developed, a smart house (like SARAH in the TV Series EUREKA) will probably be out of reach of the average person for a long time. I have friends who have a pool and use the thing that cleans the bottom automatically.

p.s. I have finished the book. I was disappointed with the ending and it kind of tainted the whole thing for me. I am glad I did not view any spoilers. I wrote a sort of review which I have hidden due to possible spoilers.

I'm not sure how they are coming as far as the functionality of robots, but they have made huge strides on how much robots resemble humans. This video freaked me out when I saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syfuvR...

I think the technology exists to create robots to do menial chores around the house. The barrier is how to mass produce them at a resonable cost.

I also recently finished the book, (view spoiler)[and the whole falling in love with a child thing kind of bothered me. Had he fallen in love with her as an adult and then gone back in time to get her to promise to wait for him to get married, that would be one thing. But he knew her as a child first, and then as an adult. That is kind of creepy. (hide spoiler)] Overall, I enjoyed the book and the issues it presents related to time travel.

John wrote: " This video freaked me out when I saw it.

http://www.you..."

Yeah when I first saw that I freaked out too, so realistic...oh wait that's Hire Girl!

As I read more of Heinlen's vision of the future, the more I think how miraculous todays technology really is, in many ways it surpasses the old visionaries. Aside from microprocessors, the biggest world changer has been the internet. Has any author envisioned anything like the internet? Heinlen gives us newspapers with 3d images on molecular touch paper...not a bad foresight on the Kindle! And we do now have glassless 3d consoles and TV just breaking into the consumer market.

I don't think that any of the authors envisioned how much time the future "visionaries" would put into tiny wireless telephones that can be carried anywhere - and I would suspect they would be even more surprised at how important we've let them become in our lives! No, we still don't have vacuum cleaners that vacuum without stirring up dust and agitating my allergies, but I have an app that will lead us to the nearest vacuum store!! Although someone has now made an all -cardboard bicycle- so i guess somebody's working on something besides a new app or the next version of the phone we already have.

Tej wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION 1: What Robert Heinlen books have you read in the past and have you enjoyed his work?"

I went on a bit of a RAH binge several years ago and read most (if not all) of his novels and short story collections. Some of the later novels dealt with some strange themes and content, so they were hard to get into. For the most part, I enjoyed the "Juvenile" novels. The novels that featured Lazarus Long were of particular interest to me. So, no surprise that I remember really enjoying Time Enough for Love and To Sail Beyond the Sunset, which tells the story of his origin [of sorts]. Some other favorites- The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Farnham's Freehold (the first half anyway, the second half was a bit of let down; another unusual take on the time travel story), Job: A Comedy of Justice, and Tunnel in the Sky.

Tej wrote: "Has any author envisioned anything like the internet?"

I think Douglas Adams came close with The HitchHiker's Guide To The Galaxy. Sort of a handheld, galactic version of wikipedia.

That's not a bad call, Space but that was published in 1979 when the IP internet had already been established since early 70s. Though the world wide web protocols began in the early 90s. I was think mainly of the 50s vision.

Candace, the mobile phones is a good call too, forgot about that, I wonder if anyone predicted those in the pre 60s? Captain Kirk's flip communicator springs to mind.

Its all about mobile apps these days isnt it?. The most exiting for me being the augmented reality applications. To think we have them now, and they're even free! My favourite app is the Google Sky Map, although not a pure augmented reality app but close enough, its a window to the stars. I love it, so easy now to observe where the planets and popular star/galaxies are. It even has a time travel function. I type in the hour and the display will make a doctor who Tardis like sound and move the sky in a blurry time travel animated style to where it will be in the designated time. This is free on your Android phone or tablet, or an equivalent app called Pocket Universe is on the Iphone/Ipad.

@ Tej- Google Space Map was 1st app I put on my phone!

I thought of the communicators in Star Trek too while I was reading the posts. Who would have envisioned that one day we could talk face to face with people as we do today. I talked to my sister in NZ on Skype yesterday and discussed then how science fiction often becomes science fact and she doesn't even like science fiction. I'm envious of all of you who have time to read. I've got years of catching up to do.

I've finished the book now. I rate this 3.5 stars, not quite 4, although I had to give it 4 on Goodreads.

Right so many elements to discuss, hardly any is on time travel though!

Agree with the uncomfortable feelings regards to Ricky. I felt the same. But I ask you this:

(view spoiler)[Is Davis adoration for Ricky any different to when Elvis Presley fell in love with Priscilla when she was 14 but waited seven years to marry her? (hide spoiler)]

I also agree with Cheryl and Glynn regards to the 50s stereotypical potrayal of women, they're either manipulative or overly submissive to men. However, this does not ever affect my rating, though. Unfairly stereotyped though they are, I just simply accept that these particular characters are what they are. They sure as heck not a great role model for women but these are specific characters to serve Heinleins dated mindset and his story.

(view spoiler)[ I found the story disappointingly predictable. As soon as Miles couldnt find the car, alarm bells rung. Oh man, its going to be one of those loops, where Davis travels back in time and moves the car somewhere else. Though I admit, I did not know where the story will be going at that point. Its when Davis found out Ricky got married to someone Heinlen doesnt mention, I figured had to be Davis. I think reading/watching so many time travel books/movies is making me too damn alert. Did anyone else figure that the mysterious husband was Davis when Davis first found out Belle got married? Or did I spoil the twist for myself :( (hide spoiler)]

Lastly Pete the cat ROCKS. I wont forget that cat. I like cats now :)