The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Has a crime story in the news intrigued you? Maybe because it was diabolical or unsolved or ridiculous? Share and talk about it here.

For me it would be two very old cases, the Zodiac killings and The Black Dahlia (Elizabeth Short). I'm attracted to the riddle of them. Both have multiple viable suspects including some who have relatives that have come forth to accuse their own loved ones of being the guilty parties. The chances of either ever being definitively solved is extremely remote so it makes for a never ending thought exercise. It's easy to see how some people can become obsessed with them (I'm not by the way -- I just find them both intriguing).

Lizzie Borden, The Ripper, The Black Dahlia, Cleveland Torso Murders

Mike wrote: "For me it would be two very old cases, the Zodiac killings and The Black Dahlia (Elizabeth Short). I'm attracted to the riddle of them. Both have multiple viable suspects including some who have ..."

You hit on two of my favorites, Mike. Both are fascinating and will forever be unsolved, although many theories have been put forward in the intervening years including that of Steve Hodel accusing his own father of the Black Dahlia murder.

Another book which caught my attention was
The Riverman: Ted Bundy and I Hunt for the Green River Killer by Robert D. Keppel. It combines the story of two serial killers, Gary Ridgeway (the Green River Killer) and Ted Bundy. Pretty darned chilling.

I'm in the Canadian Military and there was a recent case of one of our Base Commanders who was charged and found guilty of rape and murder(s). it's been used loosely in a Law and Order: Los Angeles case and they are making a movie out of it. Quite a disturbing story when it came out, how this powerful person managed to get away with his crimes for so long.

Bill......that story was televised in the US as a docu-drama on the Discovery Channel. I found it fascinating and as you noted, very disturbing.

Perhaps it was just proximity but the "beltway sniper attacks" around Washington, DC in 2002 were pretty frightening. John Allan Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo were essentially shooting people at random from a white van. It was a scary few weeks because no one knew when or who would be next.

Another is the "house of horrors" of the mid-1980s in Philadelphia. A man was holding women in his basement. Very creepy. He was holding multiple women at a time and forcing them to participate in the torture. I think one got away and called police - that plus the neighbors complaining about an odor coming from the house led the police to search the place.

Susan wrote: "Perhaps it was just proximity but the "beltway sniper attacks" around Washington, DC in 2002 were pretty frightening. John Allan Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo were essentially shooting people at rand..."

Another aspect of the "beltway sniper attacks" that was a bit chilling (even to us West Coasters) was that when the perpetrators were eventually found they didn't really fit any of the criminal profiles done on them at the time.

Green River, Running Red: The True Story Of America's Deadliest Serial Killer - I still can't understand how Gary Ridgeway got away with it for so long.

There were two local stories that were intriguing - one was the Helen Voorhees Brach disappearance in the late '70s and for long supposed murder and the other was the three little boys in disappeared in the mid-'50s.

Both of these stories got resolved in the horse scandal that was in federal and state courts in the '90s.

The disappearance of the three little boys changed how life was lived in Chicago. Parents began to keep a much closer eye on their children after that.

Hot Blood by Ken Englade and Unbridled Rage by Gene O'Shea are interesting books on these subjects.

Right now there are several stories out of Great Britain that I've read about on BBC. April Jones kidnapping and presumed murder an the strange tale of the family killed in the Swiss alps.

But for true crime books I found Ann Rule's The Stranger Beside Me and Capote's In Cold Blood chilling

I watch a lot of true crime shows on tv but I find that reading about them is so much scarier because you are using your imagination to read. I also have read a lot of the stories of The Black Dahlia after overhearing my mother talk about it when I was growing up.I much rather read stories where the killer is caught though,that way I can sleep knowing they aren't out there.

I enjoy dumb crooks news stories, like the one where the guys ran their SUV into the Apple store and left their tag behind. When they went back to get it, they were arrested.

There was a local one here where the guy went into the convenience store and brought some beer to the counter, then pulled a gun on the clerk and asked for all the money. The quick-thinking clerk told him she couldn't sell him the beer without ID, so her showed her his license :) and then left with the money and beer. He was caught soon after.

Helter Skelter and In Cold Blood were scary reads. They stayed with me long after I read them.

The thrill murder of little Bobby Franks by Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb in the 1920s is another case that has been written about many times. The famous attorney Clarence Darrow saved the killers from execution. The best-seller, Compulsion by Meyer Levin was presented in fictional form with the names changed but was about this case.
For the Thrill of It: Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz is another good book about the case and concentrates on Darrow's defense arguments.
I would recommend both of these books.

Compulsion was also made into an excellent movie with Orson Welles as Darrow.

Both Small Sacrifices: A True Story of Passion and Murder by Ann Rule and Fatal Vision by Joe McGinniss are books that really stuck with me over the years. Probably something to do with these two killing their families. I have seen the Farrah Fawcett movie where she plays Diane Downs a number of times over the years and still intrigues me.

I thought Fatal Vision ranked right up there with Tommy Thompson's Blood and Money.

Fatal Vision was a great book......and Jeffrey McDonald is still trying to get out of prison. Saw a report about him last week and his new basis for appeal is based on DNA findings. Is he guilty or not?......we may never know unless something spectacular comes from this latest issue.

"Fatal Vision" was creepy and scary. How many of you are fans Of CBS's "Criminal Minds". I am blown away by this show almost every week!

Judi/Judith wrote: "Right here in Buffalo, the murder of his stepson by Ali-Mohamed Mohamud is one of the horrifying cases I have ever heard of and will certainly be made into a book or a movie.

Jurors on Thursday co..."

I don't know what to say. This is just hideous. Crimes against children are just at another level of horror. That poor baby and the poor people who had to deal with seeing and processing this crime.

I have a terrible story for you that I couldn't be pulled from. There's tomorrow's current event for Crime and Violence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/22/...

The Dahlia and The Zodiac are both fascinating. I'm also always interested in Jack The Ripper and the idea of how/if modern forensics would have solved the crime.

There is a century old multiple murder in Villiscia, Iowa that's been nationally profiled and is still unsolved. 6 people murdered, including the kids 4 kids, two of whom were visiting. All were killed in their sleep, with an ax, and only one showed any sign of fighting back. Lots of theories out there, and of course the house is supposed to be haunted. Interesting and horrible crime.

In terms of old, unsolved crimes, I really enjoyed reading Alias Grace. Did she do it? Was she mentally ill or running a con or innocent/in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Susan wrote: "Judi/Judith wrote: "Right here in Buffalo, the murder of his stepson by Ali-Mohamed Mohamud is one of the horrifying cases I have ever heard of and will certainly be made into a book or a movie.

J..."

I agree with you. The murder of an innocent child is the most terrible thing. I mentioned the April Jones case in Wales where hundreds of volunteers have been searching for over a month for her body. She was taken while playing outside by a man from her small community.

I admire the officers and volunteers that are continuing this search. I hope their job ends soon.

Scout wrote: "I enjoy dumb crooks news stories, like the one where the guys ran their SUV into the Apple store and left their tag behind. When they went back to get it, they were arrested.

There was a local on..."

Hey I want to read some books like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the most souless killers of modern times is Dennis Rader, known as BTK. There are several books written about him but I will just cite one that is worth reading.
by Robert Beattie

Saw an interview with Christopher Walken last week. When the interviewer wanted to talk about the Natalie Wood case, he had a strange look on his face and didn't want to talk about it. You have to wonder what really happened.

I wonder about mothers who kill their children - like Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, probably Casey Anthony. It seems like such an unnatural thing to do.

Well, I am totally going to get dinged for this, but I have always found the plane crash in Chesterton Indiana fascinating and felt so strongly about it, I wrote a book about itt (sorry moderators, don't hate me).

Now, that being said, the Villisca Axe Murder House is one of the most spectacular crimes I have ever come across. Also, as a native Chicagoan, the Tylenlol murders from the early 80s has always fascinated me.

Bryan wrote: "Well, I am totally going to get dinged for this, but I have always found the plane crash in Chesterton Indiana fascinating and felt so strongly about it, I wrote a book about it (sorry moderators,..."

Interesting... I've never heard of the Chesterton crash. Between the Great Depression and the infamous gangster activities of the time there's probably a lot of history from that time period that's been nearly forgotten.

I never heard of the Chesterton crash either. I came across an article in Chicago Magazine about it. Fascinating. Have you posted about your book in the Authors section?

The Casey Anthony trial and the O. J. trial are similar in that most people believe they're guilty, yet they were found not guilty by a jury. Is there any chance that either of them didn't commit the crime?

I've always been fascinated by the Moors Murders. As a child I remember seeing the mugshot of Myra Hindley on the cover of a book and not being able to get the image out of my head. That kind of sparked an interest in understanding who this person and her accomplice were, and what drove them to commit their crimes. It's one of those cases where the more you find out, the more you just can't believe that those things really happened.

Oh, and if you don't know what Myra Hindley looks like, google her. You'll see why I was terrified as a child!

Benghazi!

Angelo wrote: "I've always been fascinated by the Moors Murders. As a child I remember seeing the mugshot of Myra Hindley on the cover of a book and not being able to get the image out of my head. That kind of ..."

Have you read ? It's on my bookshelf, but I haven't got to it yet.

Yeah, its on my bookshelf too but I haven't got round to it yet. Same with The Lost Boy actually. I'll read them one day!

A great fictional book is Death of a Murderer by (I think) Robert Thompson. It's about a man guarding Hindley's body after she dies and he hallucinates that she talks to him. Im probably mot making it sound great to be honest, but it's a very well written book, and there's this very odd but very real spectre over the book.

(Apologies for the poor spelling in that last post - writing on a mobile phone isn't a strength of mine...!)

I am quite fascinated by Jack the Ripper and generally I find it interesting to read about forensic science, e.g. Jürgen Thorwald or Hans Pfeiffer (I don't think he has ever been translated into English). Thorwald has written a fascinating series about how forensic science developed from about the 1850s onwards and what famous cases were solved by new methods. Pfeiffer doesn't even focus on crimes in all his books but more on strange deaths where only solved by forensics (e.g. if it was murder, suicide or an accident), though he of course does touch on some famous cases, too (like Dr. Crippen).

I do think True Crime in generall is quite fascinating to but most of the books I picked up so far seemed quite sensational and focused more than neccessary on the gory details.

Saw a bit of a movie about Sante Kimes and her son Kenneth. Astonishing number and array of crimes committed by these two before they were convicted of murder. If the movie is accurate Sante Kimes was a serious psycho.

A good book with a lot of California history in it is Swift Justice: Murder & Vengeance In A California Town by Harry Farrell.
It took place in San Jose, California, and ended in the last lynching in the state. It has fascinated me because I'm sure my grandfather was in that lynch mob.

I picked up Shattered Silence: The Untold Story of a Serial Killer's Daughter from a book swap - I haven't read it yet so I don't know how good it is. It sounded interesting. The families of serial killers must go through so many emotions - I can't imagine.

Aoife wrote: "I am quite fascinated by Jack the Ripper and generally I find it interesting to read about forensic science, e.g. Jürgen Thorwald or Hans Pfeiffer (I don't think he has ever been translated into En..."

There's a new Ripper series coming to TV in January.

Dee wrote: "A good book with a lot of California history in it is Swift Justice: Murder & Vengeance In A California Town by Harry Farre..."

If you lived in California at the time, OJ was in our lives for months. So that is the most personal for me. I lived in Long Beach while he played for SC. To see the beginning and the end was heartbreaking.

Some mysteries never end. Steve Hodel, the detective who has been investigating the Black Dahlia murder for years, seems to think he has new evidence.

I think the "evidence" - a cadaver dog getting a hit in the house of a former suspect (Hodel's own father) - is essentially worthless after all these years since the house has changed hands many times.

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/0...

I live near St. Catherines Ontario, so the Kristen French murder really affected me and everyone around here.

I am fascinated reading, researching and writing about historical murders. Women who kill their children is bizarre. I think it took until Susan Smith for the public to admit, that yes woman do do this too. I wrote one about a local woman back in the 1850s that used arsenic. And believe it or not they new how to test for it then.

I agree with a lot of the ones mentioned above. It is the unsolved ones that leave the most impact on me. What did the killers who got away with it do with their lives? Keep on doing it? End up in prison being caught for something else? Never did it again because it was personal the first time?

We have a couple cases that snared our headlines. In Wyoming Co, NY where I live, 1997 Samantha Zaldivar 7 years old disappeared on her way to the school bus stop. It was in the papers everyday for three months, constant search parties, until she was found buried in a field. It was very sad. The killer was caught though, the mother's boyfriend. Think that story went national.

We had some in the county north of here in the 1920s. "The Linden Murders" In 1922, Frances Kimball, a spinster was murdered and stuffed up under the root cellar stairs. Less than two years later the bodies of Thomas & Mabel Whaley (shot to death) and Mrs. Morse (struck in the head with an adz handle) were found murdered in the Whaley home in the village of and the house set ablaze. Although they had a lot of suspects. The killer was never caught. I saw crime scene photos at the historians office and the evidence still exists. Brutal.

Has anyone written novels based on these stories?

The Natalie Wood case has come up in the news again. Still a mystery.

Scout wrote: "Has anyone written novels based on these stories?

The Natalie Wood case has come up in the news again. Still a mystery."

But possibly not to Chris Walken and/or Robert Wagner. I notice that Wagner was recently refusing to answer any more questions.

I am interested in the Dr. Sam Sheppard story.