On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

Let us first see what the author says about the scope and purpose of the book.

From the Introduction: ". . . I do believe this book offers a useful chronologically comprehensive historical framework for understanding the origins and evolution of an ongoing effort, now into its third century, to come to terms with the South’s role as both a real and imagined cultural entity separate and distinct from the rest of the country. Because southern distinctiveness has so often been defined in opposition to our larger national self-image, this enduring struggle with southern identity has actually become not only a sustaining component of southern identity itself, but as we shall see, of American identity as well." (page 8)

Cobb asserts that he cannot answer a simple "yes" or "no" to the question "Does 'the South' still exist as a distinctive region of the U.S.?"

His answer is, "It depends on who's asking - and when and why." If that does not send you scurrying for the exits, you may read further into the 400 page book.

WARNING: This is a textbook with no pictures.

"Because southern distinctiveness has so often been defined in opposition to our larger national self-image, this enduring struggle with southern identity has actually become not only a sustaining component of southern identity itself, but as we shall see, of American identity as well."

This is so obvious in the red states on last night's maps.

I checked on the page for this book and found that there are only about a half dozen people currently reading it.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...
I suspect that means there will be very little online discussion about this book. Anyone else out there have anything to say? Or did Mike's review reinforce everyone's tendency not to want to read a textbook?

Now that I have gotten to page 54, I can confirm that this is not a "fun" or "easy" read! But you know, misery loves company!

I once took a car ferry from Bergen, Norway to Newcastle, UK. It was interesting to see that the distinctive architecture was the same in both widely separated cities reflecting their regular commerce and connection, I assumed.

Then I thought about Virginia (my state) gradually changing to a blue state, mostly because northern VA has become so blue. I wonder about gradual assimilation based on proximity or regular commerce. But does this mean that Indiana should gradually change colors? That seems unlikely! Oh well, so much for that theory.

I plan to read it. Just haven't gotten started yet.

Everitt wrote: "I would like to read this one a lot actually. I just don't have time right now."

Maybe this is also true for the other three-hundred-and-some other group members! This is a book that requires a little more than the average time and attention.

Everitt wrote: "I have a feeling people heard the word textbook and decided to take a pass."

I absolutely think you are right! And I do understand. I might just put the book back on the "TBR in 2013" shelf myself.

Zorro wrote: "I plan to read it. Just haven't gotten started yet."

I did get started last night. I am not going to read this book in correct chapter order. I read the intro, part of Ch. 1 and then turned to the last chapter on politics. Interesting. This chapter confirms my statement above.

"Because southern distinctiveness has so often been defined in opposition to our larger national self-image, this enduring struggle with southern identity has actually become not only a sustaining component of southern identity itself, but as we shall see, of American identity as well."

"This is so obvious in the red states on last night's maps. "

Everitt wrote: "Larry wrote: "Everitt wrote: "I would like to read this one a lot actually. I just don't have time right now."

Maybe this is also true for the other three-hundred-and-some other group members! Thi..."

I am reading this book but had to put it aside for a few days as I have to finish reading Guns,Germs,and Steel by Nov 21 for my book club at my local library. Believe me it will be a delight to get back to Away Down South after this read.

Zorro wrote: "I did get started last night. I am not going to read this book in correct chapter order. I read the intro, part of Ch. 1 and t..."

Yesterday I did something similar: I scanned through the book, stopping here and there when something looked interesting. That and what you did are probably the best ways to approach a textbook when you are not required to read it for a course. Ah, freedom of choice!

But it might just be you and me, Ms. Z.

I've started - and because I'm largely ignorant about the South (I'm British and not well travelled) - I'm enjoying it. But it is very much a text book and not an easy read.

Larry wrote: "Everitt wrote: "I have a feeling people heard the word textbook and decided to take a pass."

I absolutely think you are right! And I do understand. I might just put the book back on the "TBR in 20..."

I have the feeling that people read Mike's review and decided to take a pass.

Mike, which Southern historian do you read and believe? If this author is so far wrong in his descriptions of Southern Identity, who would you recommend that we should rely on?

I wish I had read your review BEFORE I bought the book. I was just blindly following along.

I have been reading the planter-Cavalier chapter. I had always thought that running a plantation as an active planter would take a lot of initiative and resourcefulness, and that the charming Cavalier would also be an industrious businessman. Certainly George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, and Ashley Wilkes were not triflin', lazy, ne'er-do-wells. They are really the only Southern Cavaliers that I know.

By the way...I have often thought that Fiesta San Antonio was our way of acknowledging the "aristocracy" or landed gentry in our town. People from Alamo Heights set up the festivities such as the crowning of King Antonio and the River Parade; the Coronation of the Queen at which the debutantes 'come out' to the public with all their parties parties parties; Night in Old San Antonio; the tour of the schools by King Antonio where he throws gold coins (chocolates) to us peasants; the Fiesta Flambeau and the Battle of Flowers Parades; and all the rest of the Hoop-La.

I just realized tonight that the organization that sponsors this (along with others now) is the CAVALIERS - a men's social club for wealthy San Antonians from the old (more southern) families.

Zorro wrote: "Mike, which Southern historian do you read and believe? If this author is so far wrong in his descriptions of Southern Identity, who would you recommend that we should rely on?"

Oooh, let's see...

The works of Clement Eaton;
Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer (not a Southerner;
Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era by James M. McPherson, from North Dakota;
The Civil War: A Narrative by Shelby Foote;
The Mind of the South by W.J. Cash, much cited by Cobb;
The Burden of Southern History by C. Vann Woodward;
Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South by Grady McWhiney;
Carry Me Home: Birmingham, Alabama: The Climactic Battle of the Civil Rights Revolution by Diane McWhorter.

Then there is a myriad of political material concerning the Republican Party's "Southern Strategy." Reagan kicking off his 1980 campaign in Neshoba Co., Mississippi, speaking of "state's rights" where four freedom riders were killed years before, still makes my skin crawl.

Specifically on Southern literature, I recommend The New Encyclopedia of Southern Culture: Volume 9: Literature, which includes all the authors Cobb left out.

On Faulkner, whom Cobb dismisses perfunctorily, I recommend Faulkner: A Biography, the two volume set, not the abridged. *chuckle*

In short, it is not that I think Cobb sinned by commission, but by omission. Of course, it would help if his writing made his subject matter a little more accessible. My, what a dry Martini. If that pickup in his dust jacket photo was not a prop, I'd suggest he hop in it and drive, not on the interstates, but the back roads, eat some barbecue, drink a cold beer, listen to some Blues, and talk with folks rather than lecture them.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I hope we get around to reading some of these.

I just finished Chapter 5 Southern Writers and "The Impossible Load of Past".

I do not know enough to review this chapter as Mike does. But I found the writing engaging and interesting.

The Southern Renaissance writers mentioned include Allen Tate, Ellen Glascow, Frances Newman, Katharine Faraday, Thomas Wolfe, Margaret Mitchell, William Faulkner, Robert Penn Warren. Cobb reviews several of their books and seems reasonable to me.

The Harlem Renaissance writers reviews included quite a bit about Zora Neale Hurston which would be interesting reading for those of us reading Their Eyes Were Watching God. I have read the book and found this section very interesting.

Zorro wrote: "I just finished Chapter 5 Southern Writers and "The Impossible Load of Past".

I do not know enough to review this chapter as Mike does. But I found the writing engaging and interesting.

The Sout..."

I think your key word is "mentioned." In a comment to my review, I commended Cobb on his coverage of black writers. However, too much is missing, particularly more contemporary voices inSouthern lit. There he touts Richard Ford and Walker Percy, again advancing a theory of a homogenized South. As Larry commented on Cobb's introduction, Cobb stated the Southern identity depends on whom you ask, when, and why. What I found completely lacking is the voice of the literature of the "rough South" found rooted in Faulkner and Erskine Caldwell. Please do not think I am attempting to be argumentative. Cultural history is a thing nebulous by nature. However, Cobb's coverage of literature falls far short of helping define the nature of Southern identity.

Mike

Let me preface by saying I haven't read the book--not from lack of want but lack of time! However, I was doing some reading with my daughter, and I remembered something that Twain said about Sir Walter Scott. The full quote is here:

http://www.twainquotes.com/SirWalterS...

And I found this essay:

http://www.electricscotland.com/histo...

And this one:

http://loki.stockton.edu/~greggr/Scot...

Maybe this discussion belongs elsewhere, but the reading of this book about Southern identity reminded me of it, and I thought it might be an interesting tidbit.

I finally finished this book! The first four chapters of Away Down South were very dry and "textbookish" and I had to struggle a bit to finish the last chapter. I did learn things from reading this book (especially from chapters 5-10) so I gave it three stars. However, I am ready for an easier more enjoyable read.

It is the last day of November and I have actually read this book. Now I have the nerve to post the link to my review. The review is sooooooooo loooooooong that it carries over into the comments. I swear, the book is longer than the review. Yes, I could have edited it. But I just ran out of November!

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

After reading Mike's review and Larry's review, it looks like the same old tired crap to me (pardon my Middle English).

I *am* more interested in progressive history, and there is so much more to DISCOVER; for example, the history of the early South from the French perspective (new documents available online all the time), the labor perspective (coal mining in Alabama and labor unions in Alabama, to be specific--my census taker originally from Walker County had a middle name of "Eugene Debs" for goodness sake), the updated civil rights perspective.

I was just talking to a friend of mine about Garveyites in Alabama, feminism and the civil rights movement, and the constraints on the early movement because of racisim in Alabama just this morning (after reading the CNN article on Rosa Parks).

Jessie wrote: "After reading Mike's review and Larry's review, it looks like the same old tired crap to me (pardon my Middle English).

I *am* more interested in progressive history, and there is so much more t..."

I agree with you. And not only are there online articles, but a host of books regarding the topics you mentioned. I'm juggling three books right now. I highly recommend Parting the Waters: America in the King Years 1954-63 by Taylor Branch, the first of a trilogy on the Civil Rights movement in the South. Excellent.

Mike

Well, I didn't read the book, so I feel a little guilty. I always seem to have an opinion, though.

Jessie wrote: "Well, I didn't read the book, so I feel a little guilty. I always seem to have an opinion, though."

Ah, so it was the reviews that were the same tired old crap. *laughing* That makes all the difference in the world! I'm with Chelsea, and I'll go further. Having an opinion is a birthright North or South of the Mason Dixon Line. Keep on keeping on.

Mike

Mike wrote: "Jessie wrote: "Well, I didn't read the book, so I feel a little guilty. I always seem to have an opinion, though."

Ah, so it was the reviews that were the same tired old crap. *laughing* That ma..."

Now that is not what I meant! :^)

Jessie wrote: "Mike wrote: "Jessie wrote: "Well, I didn't read the book, so I feel a little guilty. I always seem to have an opinion, though."

Ah, so it was the reviews that were the same tired old crap. *laugh..."

Jessie, I know you didn't mean that. It was simply to hard to resist. *grin*

Mike