Children's Books discussion

Each of us will pick and choose from these:

Blue Willow by Doris Gates
Young Mac Of Fort Vancouver by Mary Jane Carr
The Long Winter by Laura Ingalls Wilder
Nansen by Anna Gertrude Hall

(I've gotta say, I loved the first & third when I was a girl and look forward to rereading them - the other two, I've never heard of!)

I found The Long Winter at my library; will have to see if I can request the other three!

Nansen has a lot in common with Runner Of The Mountain Tops: The Life Of Louis Agassiz, as it is about another sadly forgotten giant of the late 19th century who was influential on children of the early 20th century.

For example, the fourth book in the classic Swallows and Amazons series by Arthur Ransome, Winter Holiday (1933), has explicit references to Nansen and his books. I was interested to learn that:

"While living in Rīga, Ransome also had several meetings with the great Norwegian, Fridtjof Nansen. Nansen's exploits as an explorer had made him, for Ransome, 'a hero since my childhood', but by 1921, when these meetings took place, Nansen was engaged in humanitarian work. He was concerned with the repatriation of prisoners of war and then with wider refugee issues, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1922. Ransome called him 'the most civilised person of his generation'. It's no wonder, then, that Nansen, not Shackleton, Scott or Amundsen, is the inspiration for Winter Holiday." - much more at http://ransomeslakedistrict.com/tag/nansen/

Wow, that's interesting. Too bad I can't get this book (or Young Mac).

Well, I reread The Long Winter. Even more harrowing this time, from the perspective of a parent who would be hungry and cold, and also responsible for children who're suffering. Gosh.

They should've built an adaptation of the Scandinavian way, at least sharing a wall with the stable... that way the animal body heat would have helped both ppl and animals keep warm, and Pa would not have had to struggle through blizzards to get to stable. It almost seems they must have thought that living in town would magically protect them from the misery they avoided by not wintering on the claim (I have no idea how the Boasts survived).

Well, those are my opinions, anyway. Of course different ppl have different priorities & values.

Btw, I looked in my Sibley and I'm pretty sure the little odd bird they found was a dovekie. It has been spotted inland.

Btw, my library edition this time was one of the newer - gosh I miss the Garth Williams illustrations.

Cheryl wrote: "Well, I reread The Long Winter. Even more harrowing this time, from the perspective of a parent who would be hungry and cold, and also responsible for children who're suffering. Gosh.

They shoul..."

I'm hoping to read this when I go to the library Friday. Meanwhile, talking about harrowing living conditions, I just watched the silent documentary of the 1920s called Nanook of the North on you tube. Talk about coping in an environment about as tough as can be. Wow.

I bet.
I wonder if it doesn't help, though, to be more prepared psychologically as well as physically. Ma Ingalls kept on being overly optimistic, refusing to believe the 'Indian' who warned the settlers in De Smet about 7 months of winter, and thinking that 'oh we've had enough blizzards to last a year so they should be done now.'

Ma was a product of her time & place, and didn't think logically or scientifically at all. To make Laura wear her flannel long underwear in the hot 'Indian Summer' just because it was past the *date* to wear them, saying she'd catch cold if she didn't, is ridiculous from our pov, but makes enough sense from hers.

Cheryl wrote: "I bet.
I wonder if it doesn't help, though, to be more prepared psychologically as well as physically. Ma Ingalls kept on being overly optimistic, refusing to believe the 'Indian' who warned the s..."

Cheryl, I think you're right about 'being prepared psychologically'. In the face of the most awful weather and environment which was for them an everyday fact of life, the Eskimo family profiled was smiling, playful, hardworking, and incredibly tender and loving with their children.

I'd just like to say a little about Blue Willow, which I never read as a child and only discovered earlier this year. I think it's an exceptional book that is really of the highest quality. It was very well known and highly respected in its day, and it deserves to be read more widely today.

It has some similarity to those Lois Lenski regional books like Strawberry Girl which began to be published a couple of years later, but it's deeper and more fulfilling. There are elements of Gates's own life included as well (in the 1930s she was a librarian who served the children of migrant workers in California).

I haven't read anything else by Gates as yet, and I know some of her output includes "horse books" which I don't have any need for at this point (I read enough of them as a kid). I have a feeling it's her earlier works I want to explore, but I'd love to hear from others who know her writing.

BTW, I don't know whether later editions of Blue Willow omit the interior Paul Lantz illustrations, but those are wonderful as well. They really match the feel of the book. The original (yellow background) cover is just stunning - those eyes! That same picture loses a lot on a blue background (did no one notice the hair/background match?), and the less said about those later paperback covers, the better. They just do not capture the spirit.

Blue Willow was terrific. I found Janey's lonely 'only child' personality traits perfectly presented in the 'Grapes of Wrath for children' tale. And a big thank you goes to the villain for opening the way to a happy ending for the family.

Michael wrote: "It has some similarity to those Lois Lenski regional books like Strawberry Girl"

I found Blue Willow on one of the library's rotating book shelves in the children's section, and picked it up since I'm working on the Newbery medal and honor books with my daughter. It did remind me of Lois Lenski's Strawberry Girl, which I had just reread last month as it was one of my favorite books as a girl. I thoroughly enjoyed Blue Willow as it is the kind of theme and writing that I gravitate to in children's books. It does have a lot more emotion in it, and especially reading this as an adult one can feel how poverty can affect a family, especially children. It was beautiful to see her innocence and strength despite all her family had been through. Although the cover was not the original, the interior did have the original illustrations of Paul Lantz, which contribute to the beauty of the book. I would have loved to have read this as a child, but am glad I found it as an adult and read it with my children.

I have enjoyed Blue Willow as a child and as a parent, but I don't remember it quite well enough to comment more now. It's on order at my library so I'll be back soon, I hope. :)

Cheryl wrote: "I bet.
I wonder if it doesn't help, though, to be more prepared psychologically as well as physically. Ma Ingalls kept on being overly optimistic, refusing to believe the 'Indian' who warned the s..."

I think if the warning had been by someone NOT an Indian, Ma Ingalls would have probably believed a long and hard winter was coming much more readily and sooner.

But I also do not think that the Ingalls simply believed that living in town would magically protect them. Everyone or at least most in and around town, assumed that even with a bad winter, the railroads were not only the wave of the future, but that mother nature could not compete against modernity, against the railroad. When it became colder and colder, the townspeople just started burning more fuel etc., not considering the possibility of the rails being idled by the relentless blizzards until it was too late, supplies were exausted and the trains laid up until late spring (and this is still an issue even today, that cities and urbanites ofte do not have contingency plans in place should there be natural disasters or prolongec inclement weather situations).

I was struck, as I read The Long Winter, by how narrowly the Ingalls and the townspeople in general escaped either starvation in the awful winter they lived through, or getting lost in a storm and freezing to death. When I thought about the scene in one of the first blizzards where the teacher and a man from town were heading the children in the wrong direction and how they only stopped when Laura happened to bump up against the last building in town - well, all those children and the two adults could have ended up lost and dead quite easily. Thankfully, they were saved by some act of providence and the young Laura grew up to be able to tell the story.

I found the book to be an amazing story of perseverance, courage, hope and faith - it could have ended so differently though. History is told by those who conquer, and in this case it was told by those who conquered terrible conditions. Sad to think of the stories we'll never know of families in other places who did not survive.

Karol wrote: "I was struck, as I read The Long Winter, by how narrowly the Ingalls and the townspeople in general escaped either starvation in the awful winter they lived through, or getting lost i..."

Exactly, conquering does not always have to mean engaging in war, amd survival is often not simply being prepared, but also, at times, being fortunate (like the school children were in the blizzard).

Karol wrote: "I was struck, as I read The Long Winter, by how narrowly the Ingalls and the townspeople in general escaped either starvation in the awful winter they lived through, or getting lost i..."

Exactly. The people who barely miss bumping into the last building end up in Cormac McCarthy novels.

Steve wrote: "Karol wrote: "Exactly. The people who barely miss bumping into the last building end up in Cormac McCarthy novels."

I've never read McCarthy, but should. Your comment inspired me to read some descriptions of his books. Some sound rather grim . . . and yet there still appears to be a triumph of the human spirit hinted at.

Karol wrote: "Steve wrote: "Karol wrote: "Exactly. The people who barely miss bumping into the last building end up in Cormac McCarthy novels."

I've never read McCarthy, but should. Your comment inspired me to ..."

Karol, I happened to be reading McCarthy's Blood Meridian in the same time frame as my visit to the library to read The Long Winter. The frontiersmen he writes about get into some very nasty situations indeed. He is a prose master. Example: The carrion birds sat about the topmost corners of the houses with their wings out-stretched in attitudes of exhortation like dark little bishops.

Steve wrote: "Quote from McCarthy's Blood Meridian"

That is stark visual imagery. I love it when authors are able to use words to put such a strong image in one's mind! Thank you for sharing that.

I find it interesting that Blue Willow is much like The Long Winter in that it's a story about courage and honor, a survival adventure... but the main characters are not boys, and the stories don't take place in the days of legends among the Magyars or in the South Seas or in the founding days of the US.

These are much more intimate stories that explicitly remind children that bravery is not being a knight rescuing maidens, but is facing every day with integrity and dignity.

Gates knows her characters. She was a teacher of migrant workers, like Miss Peterson. She must have wanted Janey's happy ending for a lot of her students. I also loved how she included a "Negro" and the Romeros, and treated them with dignity, as individual characters, too.

I got a chance to read another book by Gates, and enjoyed it very much. Sympathetic portrait of a young boy starting out on his own, adventuring his way to a new and better life: My Brother Mike

When I was a child stories of children surviving the recent past were quite popular, at least at our small-town library. Gates, of course, was writing of what was to her the present, or very recent past. And Laura was embellishing her memoirs, rather, and so I won't call them historical fiction.

But another childhood favorite was written a few decades after the event, and as far as I know, is pure fiction. I just loved The Velvet Room and read it at about the same time as these other stories. Here's art of the review I wrote a few years ago:

Re-reading this a few years ago I see it's about a lot more than the room, and it's interesting to compare it to Blue Willow, by Doris Gates and the Little House books, other favorites from my childhood. From all those (and others) I learned that family, access to books, and a sense of self-worth are much more valuable than material objects like pretty clothes or new toys.

By happy coincidence, I read The Velvet Room just after finishing Blue Willow, not realizing there were any connections of setting. I didn't like it quite as much as BW, but it's my favorite of the Snyder books that I have read.

Cheryl wrote: "When I was a child stories of children surviving the recent past were quite popular, at least at our small-town library. Gates, of course, was writing of what was to her the present, or very recen..."

Since I loved The Velvet Room when I read it about two years ago, I think I will have to try to find a copy of Blue Willow for myself.

I would call the Little House on the Prairie books historical fiction, they are definitely not completely autobiographical, and Laura Ingalls Wilder did leave out a lot of inforamtion she considered too difficult or too traumatic, like the death of her baby brother.

I loved Blue Willow. I found it so engaging. It made me recall the "migrant workers" that would work in my small town in the 1960's. I remember hearing about a seasonal clinic for them in my town, run by a charitable organization.

I agree with Cheryl about how the author presented the people with dignity and I'm sure she did wish such a happy ending for those real-life children she taught, who must have been the basis for this book.

It seems to me that the story and the writing style would still appeal to children today and I am happy to note that the book is widely available at several of the libraries in my neck of the woods.

I think more and more of the Newbery books will be appealing, starting with the ones from the early 40s. It seems like in the first decade or so of the award, the writers and committees focused more on raising children to be patriotic citizens versed in the history of notable figures, and now they're starting to realize that the children have to want to read the books for the award to actually mean anything.

At least, that's my take on it. When I was a child, four decades ago, I actively avoided books with the Newbery emblem on the jacket. And now I've organized this folder... kinda ironic....

I disagree - what kid wouldn't want to read Doctor Dolittle or Millions of Cats? There are a lot of books with kid appeal in there. I think you have to think about what kids liked in the 1920s and 1930s - no TV, no Internet, no Elvis, Beatles, etc. etc. If you look at the older books that talk about children's responses to books, you find it was quite different then.

And I don't see the patriotism emphasis with the wide variety of multicultural books like Shen of the Sea, Tales from Silver Lands, Trumpeter of Krakow, Young Fu, Waterless Mountain, Cat Who Went to Heaven, Queer Person, Vaino - the list goes on and on. Which books do you find to be overly patriotic? If there are a few, I still wouldn't say that they dominate the list.

Where were you when we were discussing those books? It'd be lovely if you go to those old threads and post your thoughts there!

Finally got a copy of Blue Willow. Am enjoying it immensely, and love the symbolism of the plate and what it represents to Janey. More anon ...

I adore Blue Willow. But then, that was my grandmother's china pattern. Over the years, of course, pieces got chipped and broken, and never got replaced, and by the time she died, I don't think there was any of it left.

When my first marriage ended, my ex got our good dishes. And when my aunt heard that, she bought me four place settings of blue willow. Not my grandmother's dishes, but her pattern. My aunt knew that, for me, it wasn't just a lovely pattern. Blue willow meant home and love and family and stability.

It was a fair number of years later when I first read Blue Willow. And Janey's attachment to the blue willow plate was, for me, absolutely perfect.

Charlotte wrote: "I adore Blue Willow. But then, that was my grandmother's china pattern. Over the years, of course, pieces got chipped and broken, and never got replaced, and by the time she died, I d..."

It is kind of sad that a number of reviewers simply cannot fathom that the plate could mean all that much to Janey.

Why did your ex end up getting the good dishes?

Because the kids would be living with me, I needed everyday dishes. And he wanted the good dishes. So it seemed reasonable for me to take the everyday stuff and let him have the nice stuff.

I knew it would be *years* before I'd use anything that couldn't go in the dishwasher!

Now the kids are all grown up, and I've got loads of lovely stuff, most of it inherited, and washing it all in the sink after a holiday dinner or a party is easy enough to do. But when the children were little, I needed easy care!

Charlotte wrote: "Because the kids would be living with me, I needed everyday dishes. And he wanted the good dishes. So it seemed reasonable for me to take the everyday stuff and let him have the nice stuff.

I knew..."

My inherited good china is in storage as I am a clumsy dishwasher.