Jane Austen discussion

See Kimberly's beginning comment on this novel in the Introduction topic of this folder ....

Let's jump in with "Jane Austen Book Club".

Did anyone else feel it was more a re-take on Emma then anything else?
Yes, they start this novel off with Emma being the plot point, and then spread out into the characters themselves.
The very idea of the book club is matching the people to their icon. But, was the character of Grigg really any one of the Austen men or was he so much a mixed match that he lost his iconic usefulness?

Okay, so I cut and pasted my original question from the other topic heading.

But let me ask this as well.... The character of Allegra is the writer's version of Marianne Dashwood, but there seems to be some traits of Mary Bennett in her too towards the end of the novel. Why do you think the author felt the need to create such a contrast in this one character?

I haven't read the book - only seen the movie, so I can't comment too much on this topic, but from the movie, yeah, not really sure which Austen character was supposed to be...

I just ordered the book a few days ago and plan to read it and join this discussion as soon as possible!
Kimberly, I'll consider all your points (which are tres interessant) while I'm reading!

I never thought of it as a retlling of emma, but there is some series match making going on and much confussion. I enjoyed both the book and the movie.

I do think that Allegra had some of the elements of Marianne Dashwood and Mary Bennett about her, Kimberly. I think that the contrast was one of the ways of creating a complex character who is trying to find her place in the world. Allegra was struggling to discover what womanhood meant for her and how she could live her idea of a life. Marianne Dashwood in many ways was struggling with the restrictions of society's definition of womanhood. I think it demonstrates the continuity of human experience that so many years later, Allegra is still struggling with society's definition of womanhood.

I really found this book to be horrid. I wouldn't have minded it so much if it had not been so obviously marketed towards JA fans with blurbs such as "writes about modern norms as the master herself might have done," etc. Fowler writes not at all like Austen. Her way of showing insight into the human psyche seems to be through constantly nit-picking and negativity. Every time we get a glimpse into one of the minds of her characters the view is of unattractive pettiness.
Compare this with Austen whose character sketches are always endearing and almost always lighthearted. The difference is Austen creates people we actually care out and want to read about.

I like the technique that Fowler employs for character development.

I have been trying to figure out which iconic Austen character, Bernadette is suppose to represent?
The rest of them seem to all fit -Grigg is Mr. Knightly,
Sylvia is Fanny Price/Elinor Dashwood,
Allegra is Marianne Dashwood/Mary Bennet,
Jocelyn is Emma.-
but who is Bernadette suppose to encompass?

Kimberly wrote: "I have been trying to figure out which iconic Austen character, Bernadette is suppose to represent?
The rest of them seem to all fit -Grigg is Mr. Knightly,
Sylvia is Fanny Price/Elinor Dashwo..."

Elizabeth

Rachael wrote: "I really found this book to be horrid. I wouldn't have minded it so much if it had not been so obviously marketed towards JA fans with blurbs such as "writes about modern norms as the master hersel..."

that's way I like the movie so much - it illustrates the characters from the book in a way that makes you care about their circumstances.

Sarah wrote: "Rachael wrote: "I really found this book to be horrid. I wouldn't have minded it so much if it had not been so obviously marketed towards JA fans with blurbs such as "writes about modern norms as t..."

I agree. This is one of those rare times a movie is better then it's original book

Oh, wow. Am I the only one who absolutely loved the book? I thought it hilarious. I laughed so hard at the library fund raiser when Prudie unleashed Bernadette on the hack writer who didn't think women authors could plot that I had tears running down my cheeks.
I did not associate the characters with Austen characters though. I just enjoyed them as their own selves. Allegra had a touch of Marianne and Prudie had a touch of Mr. Elton's wife but I thought those were just little pokes of fun the author was having. I even loved the background stories of each person as difficult as they were. Don't we all have deeply buried stories that have made us what we are?

No I liked the book. I just enjoyed the movie more.

I think one of my favourite subplots is that they get their men to read Jane Austen.
If I could find a man who was even willing to watch a Jane Austen movie, let alone read one of her books ..... he would be worthy of being called Mr. Darcy

Kimberly wrote: "I think one of my favourite subplots is that they get their men to read Jane Austen.
If I could find a man who was even willing to watch a Jane Austen movie, let alone read one of her books ..... h..."

Don’t underestimate our sex. I have read all of Austen and own most of the DVD movies including the multipart BBC mini-series of all her works (done in the 70s I think)

It's the wife that I am trying to get to read her. And whenever I watch one of my movies she says "Oh – another one of those talking movies" Uggh.

I have yet to get her to sit thru one without her doing a Lady Bertram on me and falling asleep.

So there are men out there (who are NOT Darcys) who love Miss Austen. You just have to seek and find. Like Jocelyn :)

I just want to check here- as I was reading I understood that each character was supposed to represent an Austen character from the book that was being discussed at their house...I had fun figuring out who everyone was supposed to be. Did everyone else read it this way as well?

I got so interested in the story the novel was telling that I forgot to try to figure out which Jane Austen character each character represented. So I read it a second time. Jocelyn and Sylvia were easy. And I eventually figured out Allegra with more than a little help from the special features of the movie. I did not see Grigg as Mr. Knightly but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I don't see that Bernadette fits at all.

Kimberly wrote: "I have been trying to figure out which iconic Austen character, Bernadette is suppose to represent?
The rest of them seem to all fit -Grigg is Mr. Knightly,
Sylvia is Fanny Price/Elinor Dashwo..."

Well my wife doesn't fall asleep if she is seeing a movie for the first time, but she doesn't enjoy movies with a strong romantic element as much as I do. And she would never rewatch one.

Dl737 wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "I think one of my favourite subplots is that they get their men to read Jane Austen.
If I could find a man who was even willing to watch a Jane Austen movie, let alone read one of ..."

I LOVE this book and film. Shamefully, I watched the film first, which is something I hate doing!
It does seem to be more based on Emma than the others. I think, on a personal level, that's because I find the Jocelyn/Grigg/Sylvia plot the most interesting. Does that sound feasible?
However, at the same time, what I love most about the book/film is how well different parts of the novels are entwined into one.

I agree that the Emma plot seems to flow through TJABC most strongly for the reason you suggest. But Sylvia is also like Fanny and Allegra is like Marianne. Grig is certainly a hero in the Jane Austen sense, closer to Edmund or Henry Tilney then to Darcy. I never could figure out if Prudie was supposed to line up with a JA heroine.

Harriet wrote: "It does seem to be more based on Emma than the others. I think, on a personal level, that's because I find the Jocelyn/Grigg/Sylvia plot the most interesting...."

Bill wrote: "I agree that the Emma plot seems to flow through TJABC most strongly for the reason you suggest. But Sylvia is also like Fanny and Allegra is like Marianne. Grig is certainly a hero in the Jane Aus..."

Oh I definitely wasn't saying that Emma is the only book that it's based on - just that merely, for me, it's the one that I find most interesting :) Apart from wanting to be Joceyln, the main reason I watch the film over and over again is so in my mind (I daren't say it out loud to my friends who just really don't care...!) I can identify how each scene relates back to individual moments through the novels as well.
And I'm not sure about Prudie... the Peruasion link works well with the relationship between her and Dean (only mentioned in the film). So maybe Anne? Or maybe even Wentworth - it's him that appears to stray in Persuasion just like Prudie nearly strays. The book plot though, I really don't know.
What do people think of the "What would Jane do" bit in the film just before Prudie nearly strays? Do people think it's too tacky?

Harriet wrote: "And I'm not sure about Prudie...What do people think of the "What would Jane do" bit in the film just before Prudie nearly strays? Do people think it's too tacky?..."

I could never place Prudie and her husband. Thanks for making the link with Persuasion. Like you, I try to link the TJABC story with Jane Austen's books.

I liked the "What Would Jane Do?" in the film. But than I don't notice tacky parts. I can't say that I have very good tase. I went to Snakes On A Plane and 10,000 BC and enjoyed them in part because they were so bad.

I actually find myself asking what Jane would do quite often. She is not a bad source of moral guidance.

Bill wrote: "Harriet wrote: "And I'm not sure about Prudie...What do people think of the "What would Jane do" bit in the film just before Prudie nearly strays? Do people think it's too tacky?..."

I could nev..."

Yeh I really liked the "What would Jane do?" bit. I think it's a lovely message and idea. (Similarly, when they call her works a rule book) However each time I see it, the cynic in me screams at the tackiness, but the rest of me loves it :)

I'm not really one to read all the spin-off books (films I can deal with because it's only a few hours!). But I loved this book AND film. Just because it's not trying to carry on the story, but just shows its continuing relevance. And it's so clever! And I love the actual book club meetings - their discussions always get me thinking! (I don't know if they're in all the editions, but the back of my copy of the book has a list of book club questions "written" by each character - love that too!)

Life is too short to be cynical. I ask my self all the time what Jane would do. I don't always follow her advice. She probably was a Tory after all. But I often do.

I will always watch a movie. The book spin-offs take a lot of care in selecting them. But a few are pretty good.

Harriet wrote: "Bill wrote: "I agree that the Emma plot seems to flow through TJABC most strongly for the reason you suggest. But Sylvia is also like Fanny and Allegra is like Marianne. Grig is certainly a hero in..."

I think Prudie is similar to Mr. Elton's wife. In the book Prudie is frequently mentioning that she is or is not something and just ask her friends and they will tell you. Mr. Elton's wife did the same in Emma.

Diane wrote: "I think Prudie is similar to Mr. Elton's wife...."

Very good observation. I would not have picked up on that in a thousand years. Thanks.

Diane wrote: "Harriet wrote: "Bill wrote: "I agree that the Emma plot seems to flow through TJABC most strongly for the reason you suggest. But Sylvia is also like Fanny and Allegra is like Marianne. Grig is cer..."

That's a really good point. Well done Diane! See, this is why I love this book/film - there's so many different snippets of characters/plots within it! Might have to watch it again soon...