Questioning Society discussion

Do you think it's right to hate them? Why or why not?

my father is a disgusting bastard! Where does he get off saying he wants to have me back in his life and let me come visit him for a week and then not give me any food! I was 8 and lived off of applesauce and string cheese!

Then I came to visit him again and because he had gotten someone to take care of me (Maria who he PROMISED me he would never divorce and I would've been perfectly fine if he had said he didn't know)! Then Maria was a total health freak. Then they had Zia. Then I got to see Zia and hold her ONCE she was my half sister dammit! Now she is three and my dad is onto his third wife and is trying to take Zia away from Maria!

For this reason I hate my father. As for everyone else's parents if they were good parent's in your definition then love them. But I don't think it is wrong to hate your parents because it is hard not to when you have my parent/dad as a father

i think it depends. but you have a right to hate your dad and usually when people are mad at their parents they still love them but just they need a little break.

No I don't love my dad I HATE him.

My step dad is like a REAL dad my actual father is just some piece of trash!


My real dad took my half sister out for a little (Zia) and brought her back with a black eye. So of course, she was all "What did you do to my child?" and his response was


"I tried to teach her how not to get hurt and she wouldn't listen"


HE IS HORRIBLE!

You can always escape here with us.

My friends say I need to live with reality more

Anyway I wanted to see if anyone ACTUALLY cared that I hate my father. I thought it would be interesting to hear if they actually had any other opinion or their own story

Yeah we all care about you here!

i care that you hate your dad, i dont think he should be allowed around kids by himself. not for dirty reasons, just cuz aparently he doesnt know how 2 take care of a kid

Personally I never want to have kids they are horrible and short and stupid and annoying!! Aand around age six they are like total whores and actually quite a few know it, atleast with this generation

Now I'm singing wicked.

Well I would say it really depends on how the parents raise the children.

Personally, I don't want my kids to hate me. I don't think it's right to hate your parents, and especially say it their face. That's rude and immature and selfish. Feeling annoyance and dislike towards them, especially on and off is normal. I get annoyed with my parents but I don't hate them. I love them! Wouldn't you all be sad if one or both of your parents died? I would. I don't think that most people actually hate their parents when they say they do.

But it's a right to hate them if they are, actually, crappy parents. :)

yes, it is.

GreenDaisy BlackStem wrote: "Personally I never want to have kids they are horrible and short and stupid and annoying!! Aand around age six they are like total whores and actually quite a few know it, atleast with this generation"

Do you want an actual Dad's response? Being as how I'm an Old Guy (tm) on a fairly young channel and have three sons?

First, GDB, I'm really, really sorry that your relationship with your biological father sucks. My wife and I will have been married 30 years this June and we actually (amazingly, I suppose) still love each other, and love all of our kids, and love most of our relatives, and love our friends, and love our pets. Love is good. There is little that is better.

However, our sons have had many friends from homes that have come apart, and it is always very, very difficult for the kids. We don't, really, have three sons. We have (lessee, at any given moment) somewhere between ten and fifteen sons. Our sons Ben (three of them). Our son Andrew. Our son Christian. Our son Mike. Our son John. And ALSO our three actual sons. Three of them have divorced parents, and I think they actually find more stability in our house than in any of their parents' houses. Especially when the parents' split was harsh and hard feelings remain -- the kids are in the middle.

Here there's a dark secret. Adults can make a mess of their lives too (believe me, kids do it even more starting about when they hit adolescence). Not everybody who gets married should. Not everybody who is married SHOULD stay married, because not everybody you meet, or even marry, turns out to be a nice person. And sometimes, the not nice person ends up being your parent.

So here's the story. You have a perfect right to hate your biological father if he is irresponsible, mean, abusive, and so on (as you describe). In fact, if he ever abuses you (or your half sister in your presence), I hope that you go directly to your mother and/or the authorities and have him put in jail; child abuse is not funny, not tolerable, and not legal. Sexual abusers, in particular, I'll join right in with you and hate.

With that said, here are some reasons you might consider when trying not to hate him.

a) You probably don't know the whole story of his life. Some people aren't hateful, they're pathetic. They aren't really deliberately mean, they're just not very good at managing their lives and relationships. Usually, they're pretty miserable. An adult can even be ashamed of being pathetic and act a bit hateful as a cover up of sorts.

Not all of these negative traits are free will. Your father could be low grade autistic. He could be socially or mentally damaged from his own twisted upbringing. Or yeah, he could be a butt-head.

It's worth trying to cut him a tiny bit of slack, mentally, at least until you learn more of his real story as you get to know your adult father as an adult. You certainly don't have to love him, but this might be reason enough to avoid hating him.

b) The better reason to not hate him is that hate damages you. This is a book group, and literature abounds with stories of humans who were damaged not by their enemies per se, but by their hatred of their enemies. In every major religion and philosophy (theist and atheist alike) hatred is not an Enlightened emotion.

The Buddha, for example (who was an atheist or possibly deist philosopher, by the way, not a god), preached compassion. The term compassion means "sharing the feelings of". It means to try to put yourself in other people's skin, not necessarily to love them but at least to understand them. Buddhism indeed teaches a certain degree of detachment from material things and human relationships, because things and relationships are so terribly fragile and mortal. Attachment is a source of suffering, and rejection (attachment to absence, as it were) is also a source of suffering.

Not suggesting that you become Buddhist (which is really impossible anyway -- how do you "become" a rational thinker?) but that you consider detachment and compassion as an alternative to "hate". One very good thing about this approach is that a detached person, calm, is able to think instead of just feel, and you might find a solution to some of your conflicts with your father.

Jesus, too, preached against hate (from a more theistic point of view, but you can read The Jefferson New Testament if you want to read his teachings in an atheistic setting, with all the probably mythologized miracles removed but the good stuff, the philosophy, left behind. Thomas Jefferson was no Christian -- he was a rational Deist -- but he found rational reasons to study the words of Jesus once the magic and fairy tales are torn away Jesus might well have you "love your enemy" -- which you might interpret as detached compassion once again.

You don't have to slobber all over him, but keeping a tiny nugget of charity in your heart for him while otherwise keeping your distance when possible is better than the soul-rending experience of stress and hatred whenever you think of him, redoubled when you have to spend time with him.

I think we'll ignore the Old Testament -- it didn't acknowledge the possibility of child abuse and openly portrays some horrendous cases of it (what kind of butt-head father would even pretend to sacrifice his son, and yeah God this means you in the Christian myth as well).

In Hinduism (as well as Buddhism) negative emotions are associated with negative karma. Your hatred will come back to bite you in the ass, basically. If you can show lovingkindness, detached compassion, or open love even for the unlovable, the good energy you put into the Universe will come back to you, somehow. Maybe if you talked openly and honestly with your biological father, and told him that you want to love him, but that he is making it very difficult, you would hold up a very valuable mirror to him and inspire him to change. Or, maybe he'd get angry, and come to hate you. But "shaming the Devil" is never a bad idea in life. Don't let bad people turn you into one.

Finally, you've indicated that you never want to have children. This is normal and healthy (we hope!) until you are old enough, mature enough, and responsible enough to be able to take care of them and give them the love they need!

But don't give up on it entirely. Believe me, having children with a loving partner and loving them and being loved right back, is one of the best things in the world. There are few things in life that mean more, if you remain open to it. It is a bit of a life's work -- sure, you get to do many things, and children are at most a 20-30 year window of a lifetime -- but that is a lot of your expected lifespand.

Still, it can and should be one of the best experiences of your life. All it takes to make it that, is love.

rgb

I don't hate my mom I just hate my real dad

You always have us here, Daisy. :)

"Our son Christian."

Irony meter=9/10

lol

Lauren wrote: "You always have us here, Daisy. :)

"Our son Christian."

Irony meter=9/10"

Hey, my son is going to a Catholic school. That ought to peg your meter...;-)

But (aside from his mandatory religion class) it is actually a damn good school, so to speak. Good science, good everything. My son's religion teacher does hate him -- or as close as her born again faith allows -- because we have raised him with a brain and he uses it. We have to tell him NOT to bait her, to play the game. It's harmless enough to him, and who knows, it might be good for her.

BTW, I fully intend to arrange the marriage of you and my son, Lauren. He's a year or so younger, but he's going to end up a handsome young lad around 6' 5" in height, blond hair, blue eyes, radical atheist semideist, lover of MCR (and much more) and possessors of several powerful avatars on WoW. Interested?

(I have too many extra sons, and need an extra daughter or two, especially ones with brains...;-)

rgb

Are you joking? That is so, weird. Irony meter 11/10

hahahahahahahahah she hates him, that would so be me, and it would almost make it worth going the Catholic school.

Hm, tall, handsome, intelligent, same musical taste, AND a gamer. If only he was at my school. XD We need boys like that here in Jersey.

And was is this "BTW" business? Am I not involved in the decision making process, or is this going ahead in any case. X) :P

rgb wrote: "BTW, I fully intend to arrange the marriage of you and my son, Lauren. He's a year or so younger, but he's going to end up a handsome young lad around 6' 5" in height, blond hair, blue eyes, radical atheist semideist, lover of MCR (and much more) and possessors of several powerful avatars on WoW. Interested?"

WOW, if I were Lauren, I'd be seriously flattered.

I am. But I have no way to type facial expressions that would make that clear. *^.^* There we go, blushing face!

:D So, when do I meet him? lol

Lauren wrote: "I am. But I have no way to type facial expressions that would make that clear. *^.^* There we go, blushing face!

:D So, when do I meet him? lol"

Aha, it's like a cat (x

Lauren wrote: "I am. But I have no way to type facial expressions that would make that clear. *^.^* There we go, blushing face!

:D So, when do I meet him? lol"

Aw, I was kidding, sort of. Your parents would get seriously pissed if you actually attempted to meet somebody (or somebody's son) you only have gotten to know via avatar. And they should -- it is seriously dangerous. Who knows if I am who I appear to be through typed words?

So the only way I can think of that they'd probably approve of is:

Apply to Duke.

Take Intro Physics for Majors (and maybe a good intro philosophy seminar, and some serious calculus, and whatever). With luck, I'll be your professor a couple or three years from now, in a properly chaperoned environment. My son should be a Junior or Senior in high school. So, when I have a party for all of the majors, you can meet him! All legal, moral, ethical, safe, and everything.

And your parents couldn't be actively sad if you went to Duke, right? It is one of the best schools in the world and all that... and has kick-butt basketball as well.

Or, if he ever does join GR, I'll cheerfully introduce your avatars.

Otherwise I have to figure out how to contact your parents, we have to meet, we have to negotiate your dowry -- it's a lot of hassle. Of course you have no choice in the matter -- parents always know what's best for their children, right? I was simply fortunate enough to grow up in India, so I know exactly how all of this works:-)

rgb

We are always here for you Daisy! :)

rgb wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I am. But I have no way to type facial expressions that would make that clear. *^.^* There we go, blushing face!

:D So, when do I meet him? lol"

Aw, I was kidding, sort of. Your..."


No they don't they simply don't

"Aw, I was kidding, sort of. Your parents would get seriously pissed if you actually attempted to meet somebody (or somebody's son) you only have gotten to know via avatar. And they should -- it is seriously dangerous. Who knows if I am who I appear to be through typed words?"

You are a registered author on Goodreads, I assume that means that you have creditability of some ilk. X)

"And your parents couldn't be actively sad if you went to Duke, right? It is one of the best schools in the world and all that... and has kick-butt basketball as well."

They would not be sad, but someone's savings account might be. teehee

"Otherwise I have to figure out how to contact your parents, we have to meet, we have to negotiate your dowry -- it's a lot of hassle."

*shakes head*
*shakes head some more* :)

"Or, if he ever does join GR, I'll cheerfully introduce your avatars."

That, I believe, would be the only reasonable course of action. :P Or, better yet, invite him to this group, and he can debate with us. :D All around WIN.

I just had a thought as well. Have you informed HIM about this? If anyone should know about his marriage, it might as well be him. :)

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, if he is resistant, bring him to Goodreads, and I can attempt to win him over with my wit and charm.

XDDDD

This is the cutest conversation Goodreads has ever seen.

Lauren wrote: "And, if he is resistant, bring him to Goodreads, and I can attempt to win him over with my wit and charm.

XDDDD"

I did, actually, tell him that I had his future bride picked out for him, but alas, he's used to me. He just rolled his eyes, shook his head, and sauntered out of the room.

Young people these days. I get no respect.

rgb

I know J! I actually want to save it somehow. X)

lololol I would have done the same. So, now you must convince him to get a Goodreads and invite him here, and we'll ambush him. :D btw, which son are we talking about? I assumed it was Christian, but I want to be suresure.

What do you mean, "young people?" You are surrounded by 15 year olds here. :P You get plenty of respect.

Or, better yet, direct him to my Musings in my Writings. Bait him in. ;)

Lauren wrote: "I know J! I actually want to save it somehow. X)

lololol I would have done the same. So, now you must convince him to get a Goodreads and invite him here, and we'll ambush him. :D btw, which son a..."

This would be Sam, my youngest biologuical son. You could also have your choice of William (19) or Patrick (22) but I foresee difficulties with either one -- they are both healthy young giants but Patrick is stubborn and easily distracted, William quiet and simply immovable. Samuel is a bit more tractable and dynamic.

You see I am looking out for your best interests here.

;-)

rgb

lol this is very amusing

GreenDaisy BlackStem wrote: "lol this is very amusing"

Yeah, but I feel bad as we hijacked the thread a bit somewhere in there.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about your biological father. What do you know about his personal history? Do you still see your grandparents on his side? Are they good people? Is he well-educated? What does he do for a living? If you understand someone, it generally awakens compassion.

To my experience, people who themselves have good parenting and a loving family only rarely end up COMPLETELY messed up. This isn't a hard and fast rule -- everybody's genes and hormones and brain are theirs alone, and something like ADD (which went undiagnosed, I'm sure, in your father's generation) can really lead someone astray. One of my sons has serious, serious ADD and it has caused him, and us, a lot of pain, although with time and support he is finally moving PAST it and coming out the other side OK, with learned skills and support that let him make the most of his abilities (which are considerable) while minimizing the impact of his disability.

Two important facts to keep in mind as you get older and start to interact with the adult world as a neo-adult yourself are:

a) Somewhere between 1 in 7 and 1 in 15 adults meet the diagnostic criteria for one or more personality disorders (look this up if you don't know what a personality disorder is). Call it one in ten. So one adult person you meet out of ten is very likely to be like fingernails on a chalk board at least part of the time to be around -- neurotic, irritating and sets your teeth on edge at BEST, drives you screaming from the room at worst.

I don't remember the statistics for full blown mental illness or one of the SERIOUS personality disorders, but it is way higher than you think, maybe one in thirty or one in fifty. Stuff like undiagnosed bipolar or schizophrenic individuals are relatively rare, but if you go into an auditorium today with a hundred people, chances are pretty good that a couple of them will one day have a psychotic break of some sort or another.

I'd go on about axis one and axis two, but the point is that people with a personality disorder and/or mental illness almost by definition have diminished free will, and need our sympathy and help (without necessarily giving in to their undesirable behavior and thereby becoming an enabler). Bear in mind that a lot of this stuff lies on a spectrum, and destructive behaviors can vary strongly over time as impaired individuals are stressed and life hands them lemons they simply aren't capable of turning into lemonade. Their personal misery at their personal failures and inability to cope becomes misery for everyone close to them.

Oh, and let us not forget the one adult in ten or so who is an alcoholic. Just from your description of your father above, it wouldn't surprise me if he is, perhaps along WITH other personality disorders or because he's self-medicating a more serious disorder.

b) ADD, also, is rampant in the adult population, and is almost entirely undiagnosed (or misdiagnosed as a personality disorder that is actually a symptom, not the problem itself). When most adults grew up, ADD/ADHD just didn't "exist". By the time it existed and diagnostic criteria had emerged (which are still largely empirical and fuzzy and imperfect) they'd long since learned to "cope" -- self-medicating with things like cigarettes, drugs and alcohol, coffee, selecting career paths and educational pathways that didn't overstress their impaired cognitive abilities. Some adults with ADD do just fine -- they become artists, for example, or farmers, or car salesmen -- jobs that have them doing different things all the time and where a lack of ability to focus on one task for six hours straight isn't a soul crushing disability.

Adult symptoms vary, but an adult that has a hard time with commitment (to tasks, people, whatever), that bounces from job to job, that has a job that doesn't require a long attention span and attention to detail (or who frequently gets fired if he/she is given such a job), that has a hard time maintaining a relationship with a calmer and more focused person, that constantly changes the subject in conversations or inserts non-sequitors at will as their minds are bouncing all over where everyone else is trying to maintain a linear thread -- well, you have to wonder.

So maybe your father isn't, actually, hateful. Maybe he needs help. Diagnosis. Therapy. Medication.

At the very least, your relationship with your father needs therapy.

So why not talk with him about this? Tell him how sad and disappointed and angry he makes you feel. Tell him that you're worried that something is wrong in his life, and that it is affecting YOUR life and hurting YOU because you care about him and because his behavior affects you directly every time you are with him. Ask him if he's willing to talk to a therapist with you, and if he says yes, push him until he actually does -- either joint therapy or individual therapy for him or both.

What's the worst that can happen? He can say no, he can get angry, he can rant and rage -- but it sounds like he does all of these things already. If he goes this route, he simply puts himself out of your reach; walk away without regrets.

On the other hand, if he does love you, and value his relationship with you, just maybe he'll realize that this is his one chance to salvage a long term relationship with you. You can tell him up front that in a few years you'll be an adult and will never have to see him again, and that unless he changes that's just what's going to happen.

That's not hating, that's loving, a very adult and responsible form of loving. Even if he refuses and you walk away and never look back, you tried, in the most adult and constructive way you could. And the seeds you plant with the effort could at any time sprout and bear fruit on the karma-tree, either with him or with somebody else later in your life.

Just a thought. You might want to talk this over with your mother -- there could be things like the stuff above that she knows about your father that she hasn't shared with you so you could have as normal as possible a relationship with him. As you become an adult, though, you have a need to know so that you aren't needlessly hurt by behaviors with reasons that you can understand and, maybe, forgive even if you can't live with them (any more than your mother could).

rgb

rgb wrote: "GreenDaisy BlackStem wrote: "lol this is very amusing"

Yeah, but I feel bad as we hijacked the thread a bit somewhere in there.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about your biological father. Wha..."

I never see his grandparents he hasn't talked to them in like 17 years!

yeah I have ADHD so does he


I can't just forgive him like that he's done too much I just can't

Way to write an essay to answer a one-sentence statement. :)

"
This would be Sam, my youngest biologuical son. You could also have your choice of William (19) or Patrick (22) but I foresee difficulties with either one -- they are both healthy young giants but Patrick is stubborn and easily distracted, William quiet and simply immovable. Samuel is a bit more tractable and dynamic.

You see I am looking out for your best interests here."

Because naturally, marriage being arranged over the internet without one of the parties involved is the best solution. X) And all the blame is on you, for now I actually legit want to meet Sam now. :PPP

GET HIM A GOODREADS

Use my plan of getting him to read by Musings stuff, and then he'll voluntarily get an account. And without suspecting any sneaky activity. >.>

you chnaged the topic name!!!!!!!

Because it was meanie!

How is that meanie! I stated the discussion topic

:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Fine. Just, leave it like this.

rgb come back! How can I plan to ambush him without help!

Lauren wrote: ":PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Fine. Just, leave it like this.

rgb come back! How can I plan to ambush him without help!"

He's intrigued. I'll see what I can do about a GR account.

But you shouldn't have changed the discussion topic... you'll make GDB feel bad. You'll also get me arrested (if somebody thinks that 54 year old me is trying to arrange a marriage between 15 year old you and myself)!

rgb

Small things like this don't bother me. I changed the name

It is absoulutley okay to hate your parents!!!

Nice work Lauren...

I am changing the name. Once it is changed, NO ONE will change it again. Got it? I have mod power now.

"'He's intrigued. I'll see what I can do about a GR account."

Hook-line-sinker. :D

"But you shouldn't have changed the discussion topic... you'll make GDB feel bad. You'll also get me arrested (if somebody thinks that 54 year old me is trying to arrange a marriage between 15 year old you and myself)!"

I did not change it the first time. I am unsure who did. BUT IT'S STAYING AT THIS. Get it, got it, good. <3

Unfortunately, I believe that level of silly stupidity is possible.

Thank you Marley. I now have not one, but TWO proposals to go to Duke, and one marriage in the works. X)

Urg. No one is commenting.