You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Discuss here.

Waiting patiently for mine to arrive in the post!

I have this on order from the library. Remind me, can I use this for my alphabet as well? I'm not too far off needing an "M"...

Yes, you may use this for your Alphabet challenge.

As soon as I finish my alphabet book (I'm on N) I can start this one. Good thing I own it.

I read this book last year and loved it. This is definitely worth a re-read.

I was hoping this would end up being one of the options! I have a request in at the library for it, so hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here.

I am about 20% into Mudbound and am thoroughly enjoying Hillary Jordan's writing style. I like that it is being told from different points of views ( I am a big fan of books like that). The story itself has me more intrigued than I thought it would. I keep reading just a little farther because I want to see how the story plays out.

Just finished the book ( I thought it was a quick read)... But I will wait for others to finish before commenting...I can see lots to talk about...happy reading.

I was just checking out this book's publisher's blog and they have a reader's guide on there with some good questions for discussion - reader's guide

I started reading earlier - I've only read the first chapter but already I'm intrigued to find out what's going on.

After reading chapter one, these were my questions which sparked my curiosity and my need to keep reading: (view spoiler)[Did the father die of natural causes or way there foul play? Why does Jamie think his brother thinks of him as "my lunatic brother"? Whose body is at the bottom of the grave they dug? Was it a slave? And will we find out? (hide spoiler)]

So I'm hooked so that I can find out the answers of these questions. I've since read on (to page 39) and have the answer to one of them at least (view spoiler)[The father was murdered! But now I have some more questions to keep me reading? How, Why and Who? (hide spoiler)]

This book switches character perspective with each chapter which I quite like but I have to ensure that I'm paying attention so I know what's going on with whom. it also means I'm more likely to read a whole chapter before stopping so that I know who I'm on when I pick up again. That said, in the paperback version of this book it does say the name of the person you are reading about at the top of the page which is handy! What do other people think about books that tell the story in this way?

I can tell that this book will bring up lots of things for discussion as it covers quite a few different topics, especially racism. There have only been a few references so far in the book - the father uses racist terms of reference and either does/doesn't do things because he doesn't want to be like them. What I have read about him so far, I really don't like the man. (view spoiler)[I couldn't believe it when he asked his "chubby" grand daughter to sit on his lap and then when she refused he said she was "too fat to sit on his lap anyway" and made her cry. (hide spoiler)]

Hmmm. After reading your spoilers Sarah, I think I must be delusional if I think I can remember enough of the story to discuss it. We read this book in our real life book club a few years back and I gave it 5 stars. But, details have slipped away into that fuzzy section of the brain.

It's a shame you can't remember the book in much detail - you obviously enjoyed it though as you gave it 5 stars! I think when you read a lot, details of books can be lost from your memory. When we did the group read a few months back on The Red Tent, the same happened to me - I loved the book and gave it 5 stars, but couldn't really remember much about it in order to discuss that much!

I remember quite a bit about the book. There are some things that have been burned into my brain forever. But there are a lot of things that I have forgotten - like the things in your spoilers. We'll see if I can contribute to the discussion as more people join in.

I read this book when it was first published and a friend suggested I read it. I also don't remember all of the details but found this book so descriptive about the farm it was as if I was also stuck in the mud like the characters. Someday I hope to reread this book and again savor it. The year I read it, it was very high up on my top 10 list for that year.

Sarah, the father was my least favorite character in the book ( well obviously- he had no redeeming qualities). I thought he was too one-dimensional . I thought Hillary Jordan fleshed out the other characters better. I knew their good and bad qualities. Maybe that's why he was the only character with no voice? When she told the story about him picking on the little girl- it was a bit much for me. I felt as if she was putting up a neon sign " he deserved it."

I've read up to page 108 now. The father is definitely my least favourite character - I'd probably go as far to say I don't like him at all.

I enjoyed reading the first chapter by Ronsel and his time in the army in WWII - not sure whether "enjoyed" is the right word or not really. I can't believe how "negroes", as the book terms them, were treated by some of their fellow Americans first off, and secondly by their fellow soldiers in the war. They were all fighting for their country - it shouldn't have mattered what colour skin they had. I know some of the "black" battalions were used as human shields/cannon fodder before sending in the white battalions - outrageous! I'm pleased Ronsel received a better experience from the white folk in England - shame that original response didn't stick. Don't get me wrong, Britain is pretty multi-cultural and the majority of people get along just fine but there are still pockets of people who are racist (EDL and BNP as an example). My stomach turned when I read the bit about (view spoiler)[one of Ronsel's tank friends getting the runs and squatting over his upturned helmet while he continued to shoot at the bad guys! It must have been VERY ripe in there! (hide spoiler)]

I was shocked (view spoiler)[that Henry had bought a farm in Mississippi and told Laura they'd be moving there in 2 weeks - without consulting her first! I'd have been furious if my OH had done that. Very unfortunate that they were scammed and had to live in the old farmhouse. (hide spoiler)]

I have only read one chapter from Florence's point of view so far but I really like her. (view spoiler)[I'm pleased she went to help when the two daughters had whooping cough. I couldn't believe Pappy was criticising Florence and ordering her around when she was there to help the children and he hadn't lifted one finger to help them. He was more concerned at letting Florence know he was above her. It made me laugh when she starched his sheets so they were stiff! (hide spoiler)]

One thing that made me cringe a little was (view spoiler)[reading that Florence keeps the dried remains of the caul which her baby (who died) had been born in. I've never heard of a caul before - just googled it so I know what it is now. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book yesterday. I really enjoyed reading it and it was a quick read (although I took a few choice breaks to have a rant about "the state of the world", "people's attitudes" etc.).

This is one of those books which evoked many different emotions in me, the most predominant one being anger, and I can tell this book will be one of those books that I'll remember for a long while to come.

In another thread we have been talking about Southern Literature and this definitely fits in to that genre and although I enjoyed this book (I gave it 5 stars) , I'm not sure I would read many more books in that genre if they contain a similar level of racism in them - I don't think my blood pressure could take it!

I knew things weren't going to end well but I hadn't expected what happened to happen in the way it did. I was also surprised by the twist at the end (view spoiler)[that it was actually Jamie who killed Pappy and not Florence like I thought. One of the many things that outraged me was after Ronsel's lynching, Henry said something along the lines of "I warned the boy to keep his head down and he should have listened then it wouldn't have happened" as if he was asking to be treated in that barbaric way! (hide spoiler)]

In my review of the book, I said that I would have liked to have seen some justice occurring (view spoiler)[I know Pappy was murdered but I don't personally see that as justice. (hide spoiler)] and the Law stepping in. I really felt for Ronsel and his family's sense of injustice. All this said, If Jordan had incorporated some level of justice within the story, I'm not sure that it would be true to the period that she was writing about and as it is historical fiction it is important to stay as close to what would have happened as possible.

I look forward to hearing what others thought.

I agree with all that you wrote, Sarah. The lack of justice really was key to the whole book. Even the title reflects that - bound in mud - symbolizing quite literally and figuratively the theme of the book.

I didn't really get into the book until the second half, but what a second half. Appalled by the behaviour of those men. For the colour of someone's skin. Would death have been better for Ronsel - I think so, but that last chapter of his, well, I can't begin to think how frustrated he was and what he did with it.

I'm not sue I can read many more books of this genre, although this was totally different to 'The Help' in terms of the story itself (not the underlying racism obviously), which I gave 5*, but I don't think I can read about he horrendous treatment doled out to these people who were treated like animals, or worse than. Shames me, and affects me in a way that makes me feel awful inside. I have to ignore some things in order to feel normal and this is one of them I think.

I may not revisit this thread. I feel that awful.

I understand how you feel Suzie. We read this book for our real life book club. When one woman gushed that she loved the book, I said that love was not a word I could use. I gave it 5 stars because I think it's powerful.

I agree with you Suzie. I definitely don't think I'd read more of the genre either.

I agree with you Janice about the reason for giving it 5 stars - it is a powerful book. In my earlier posts I wrote that "I enjoyed" the book but it isn't the right word either just like you cannot say you loved the book.

It was a good story and it was a bad story all at the same time - good in that it was well told/written, it was accurate to the time period, and explored many different topics which evoked a variety of emotions. It was a bad story in that the characters were deeply flawed, behaved in an inhumane way, and were so very ignorant and bigoted.

I just finished reading this book the other night, and I don't think there's anything I can add that the rest of you haven't already said. I really enjoyed the book, but, like Sarah, I don't think "enjoyed" is quite the right word. I thought it was really well written, and that it handled a difficult subject really well. But I didn't like some of the content. I just had a hard time reading about the racism.

In terms of a more technical aspect, I liked the way the author was able to give a different voice to each of the characters. There are some novels written from multiple POVs where it can sometimes be difficult to determine who's speaking, but I found that this novel didn't really suffer from that problem. I found that the language and tone used in each chapter made it a bit easier to keep track of who was speaking when. Although, again as Sarah mentioned, I did tend to finish a chapter before putting the book down so that I had an easier time keeping track.

I skipped everything written here to not read things I don't want to read yet, but I think I'll read this book for the monthly read too. Still a few days to go until the end of August, I almost finished the book I'm currently reading, and I had Mudbound on my TBR list anyway.

I'll be back in a while to share my views and read yours.

It's a book I couldn't put down, Peggy. It's definitely a book you can finish by the end of the month.

I think it will be the same for me Janice, the first chapter really grabbed me! I just wanted to read on and on. I'm now at the second chapter written from Laura's perspective and enjoying the book so far, although I have to admit I don't get all the references (there were remarks about Quakers and Baptists, and I know it's something religious but that's it. I can look it up, but that still doesn't make me fully understand. Ah well). I really like books written from different perspectives. Oh, and I'm shocked by the treatment of black people, not just now but everytime I read or hear about that time. Isn't it awful that people treated each other like that, and only such a short time ago?

(Sorry if this was all mentioned before, but I'm afraid I'll read things I don't want to read yet)

Quakers were a very strict Puritan sect. Think The Scarlet Letter. If they are still in existence, their numbers are very small. Baptists, on the other hand, are large in numbers. They are a fundamental Protestant doctrine that. I may be wrong, but isn't George W Bush a Baptist?

That's it in a nutshell. LOL!

And are Baptist against drinking alcohol? (if so, I understand the part of the book that referred to Baptists!)

We read for many reasons and one of them is for us to either know or try to understand what has happened before us. Because I am probably much older than many of you I remember the days which led up to the Civil Rights Movement. One of my friends, Andrew Schwerner was killed while working in Mississippi that fateful summer and I remember walking in Washington and listening to Martin Luther King give his I Have a Dream speech on the Mall. And so I agree that this was a painful book but as a friend said about the movie , The Butler, "I think every American should see this movie to realize what went on in this country."

As for those who said I can't read about this topic any more, I also said the same about reading and watching Holocaust oriented books and movies after seeing The Pianist. But I didn't and won't stop because maybe if we watch things like The Pianist and read books like Mudbound, we can make some sense about racism and say as I did when I recently visited the Holocaust memorial Yad Vashem in Israel, "Never Again."

Peggy wrote: "And are Baptist against drinking alcohol? (if so, I understand the part of the book that referred to Baptists!)"

During the setting of the book, Baptists would have been very apposed to alcohol consumption. Now a days, moderate drinking (like wine with supper) may be acceptable.

The religion I grew up in is very close in doctrine to the baptists. My mother to this day will not park outside the liquor store for fear that people will assume she's buying booze even though she could be in the bank next door.

Thanks Janice :)

George W is an Episcopalian
Bill Clinton is a Baptist
Richard Nixon was a Quaker

Southern Baptist, which we read about in Mudbound, are more evangelical - and discourage drinking.

I agree Nancy. It is important to understand our history, however painful.

I'm about 3/4 through the book now. (view spoiler)[ Several times I've thought: I hope nothing is going to happen to Ronsel... I just now read the bit where he lost his letter, jumps in the ditch, and white men in cars stop next to him. And I don't want to read any further. I really don't. This cannot end well.

I will read on, of course. (hide spoiler)]

I agree with you Marnie that it is important to understand our history, both the good bits and the bad bits.

I have learnt a lot from reading Mudbound and, I like you Nancy, also have read a number of books on the Holocaust and WWII which I have also learnt a lot from, not only about what happened back then but also about myself and it has made me solidify my opinions on the world one way or another.

I thought the same Peggy at where you are at now. I could just sense how it was going to go, although I didn't know exactly what was going to happen.

I thought it was an excellent book. I read it some time ago and then again more recently with another book group.

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I finished! I rarely give a book 5 stars but this one got them. I read all the other comments here too now, and Sarah, I have to say I agree with every single thing you wrote. I questioned and thought exactly the same things as you did.

I think 'powerful' is the perfect description for this book. I was thinking of another word than 'enjoy' but couldn't find one.

I didn't have so much of a problem with reading about racism (it did make me mad, I was fuming when taking a shower after 3/4 of the book. It's all just so unfair and mean... (view spoiler)[ It must be hard for all Black people to always hear you're less and behave in that way, but for someone like Ronsel, fighting in war and then coming back to this... Man :( ) (hide spoiler)] . It gets to me, but just the descriptions of black people not being allowed this or that I can handle. The descriptions of violence however (view spoiler)[(both the Dachau part and the Ronsel part) (hide spoiler)] I had more difficulties with. I always have, I wouldn't be surprised if I get nightmares tonight. And it wasn't even that explicitly written, I think I just have a very lively imagination when it comes to this.

I only read The Help as other book in this genre, so I have not much to compare it to, but I liked this one better because it seemed more raw and real. Also to have the chapters written from the perspective of people who are prejudiced and think Black people are less made it interesting for me.

I was also surprised at the suppression of women! They really just had to do what their men say. (view spoiler)[Can you imagine your husband just commanding you were to live and make all important decisions without talking to you? (hide spoiler)]

And what also intrigues me is that Blacks are considered less, having to use separate bathrooms, eat their meals outside, and so on, while they are considered good enough to take care of White people's children. It's something I don't really understand.

Oh, and the end: (view spoiler)[ I like to think that that was Ronsel speaking from the future, and that for him all ended as well as possible (hide spoiler)]

This book will stay with me for some time.

It's 50 years ago that the March on Washington for civil rights occurred. So have we learned anything.

For those who enjoyed if we can use that word, I would recommend The Kitchen House and also Little Bee. Distinctly different they are also excellent books.

I joined this group a bit late to join in on this one, but Amazon is celebrating the 2nd anniversary of Kindle Deal of the day by offering 65+ titles at $2.99 or less. Mudbound is only $0.99, with an offer to get the audiobook at the same $0.99. I'm picking this one up because I remembered seeing it here and just saw the great response in this thread. Thank you all!

I thought it was interesting that Jamie noticed Laura's satisfaction at Pappy's death, although they did not want the granddaughter to be aware of Laura's feelings.

Because Pappy is so vile and repulsive, I think Jordon chose to introduce him to the reader through his actions with his family members instead of his own voice. If he calls his granddaughter a piglet and tells her she is too fat to sit on his lap, what kind of bully is he? Obviously, he has tyrannied Laura and treated her as a personal servant. Racism rears its head at the outset when the brothers declare that Pappy would never consent to being buried in a grave with the bones of a black. Jordan alludes to other kinds of monstrous acts that Pappy has committed, creating a sinster, mysterious atmosphere. That he has been murdered does not surprise me.

I am re- reading the book and have gotten about 20% through. I remember the major themes, but I have forgotten small details like Henry's courtship of Laura in Memphis.

I am again struck by the way the land is such a powerful force in the book. It becomes a forceful character in the book just like the house does in The House of the Seven Gables.

Marnie wrote: "George W is an Episcopalian
Bill Clinton is a Baptist
Richard Nixon was a Quaker

Southern Baptist, which we read about in Mudbound, are more evangelical - and discourage drinking.

I agree Nancy...."

George H.W. is Episcopalian, too.

I am Episcopalian and can tell you personally that we do drink.

Because Pappy is so vile and re..."

Connie, I had the same thoughts about Pappy and I agree with your description of the land. Jordan seems to personify the land and in some scenes it functions as another character in the book. In the beginning its introduced as a wrecking force (with Jamie's palpable fear that he will be buried alive), then as the story moves through time it represents hope and renewal for Henry while simulatenously representing oppression and decline for Laura (and Pappy). We see land as an equalizer (making the struggles of cultivation a shared one among all men), a binding force and ultimately a divisive force...

Just finished this book. It was really good. I gave it 5 stars. I liked her method of telling the story working back to the present from the past and each character getting to tell his/her part. Pappy didn't need to have a voice. He was simply meant to be the representative white man of the South during the time. Our history lessons tell us what the character of those men was. We learned enough about him through his actions and words as reported by the others to know that he wasn't a character that should be given a voice because whatever he had to say wasn't worth listening to.

Naomi wrote: "Just finished this book. It was really good. I gave it 5 stars. I liked her method of telling the story working back to the present from the past and each character getting to tell his/her part. Pa..."

I like your take on the reason he wasn't given a voice and I totally agree with you Naomi. Glad you thought it was a good book.

Wendy, I totally agree with you. Perfectly stated.

Naomi, I agree that Pappy represents the backward thinking white man of his generation and because we know his thoughts, he doesn't need a voice. Nicely said.

When Ronsel has the confrontation with the white men at the store on the day of his homecoming, a sense of doom and foreshadowing falls across the characters. It is intensified the next day when Henry makes Ronsel apologize for his behavior. Ronsel is a hero and should have been welcomed home grandly; however, these fools insult this warrior. We see disaster looming.

I cannot imagine what it must have cost Ronsel to swallow his pride and humiliate himself to the whites just to get along when he knew in his heart that he was more than equal and had proven himself on the battlefield. How the blacks could contain the fury and sorrow caused by the humiliation and unfairness of the white society, I do not know, but they were truly courageous. On the other hand, people like Pappy and Henry were obviously putting others down to make themselves appear more important. What a sad shame and a lack of character. It also appears that Henry has difficulty separating himself from Pappy and going against Pappy's commands, which diminishes Henry's manhood while Ronsel respects and takes care of his father, emphasizing his stature as a man.

Pappy and Henry are not that different from each other. Obviously Pappy has a much less likeable personality, but with regard to their stands on Black people, they're basically the same, aren't they? I'm not sure if Henry would have agreed with (view spoiler)[ the lynching (hide spoiler)], and he tried to keep some sort of peace in the shop, but the thoughts behind their action are the same, and similar to the thoughts of so many Whites back then.

The thing that annoyed me about Henry is how he was so sure of himself and just expected everyone to follow his decisions: (view spoiler)[The way he asked Laura to marry him, the way he just told her they were going to move to a tiny town in Mississippi, how he expected Florence to just leave her own family for 5 days so she could take care of his children... (hide spoiler)]

Peggy, I agree with your assessment of Henry's character, and I almost shouted when Jamie called Henry out on his pious attitude. Henry is a selfish person, never giving a thought to anyone else's feelings or desires because he is so wrapped up in his wants and living the way he was raised. It seems that these white men think there is only one correct way to live and do not accept any other ideas about ways to live. Just narrow-minded to the core! I agree that there are several times when Henry shows his prejudiced side runs as deep as Pappy's. (view spoiler)[ I wonder whether he would have participated in the night at the sawmill, too. That is a good question. He probably would have drawn the line there, but he does want to fit into the community of white men. (hide spoiler)]


This book affected me in a visceral way in much the same way Sophie's Choice did. Although it is difficult to read these books, I do think it is important to know about injustices and inhumane acts that have occurred throughout history. We can only change prejudice one person at a time through education, and books like this one perfectly illustrate the hatred which led to torture inflicted on blacks as a routine matter during this time.

Ending the book with Ronsel's voice was uplifting and hopeful, and I think was very encouraging.

Hillary Jordan has given us two great books with Mudbound and When She Woke that I wonder what other thought provoking stories she has in store for us. I see that she has Aftermirth which I may have to investigate.

I finally finished the book and I'm still digesting. The subject matter is very disturbing in a shameful sort of way. There are still people out there with these same prejudices and hatreds. I found the way Jordan wrote, perfect. The voices were distinct and always true to the character's voice. I always knew who was speaking, never having to go back to the start of the chapter to remind myself.
I agree that ridding society of prejudices of any kind is a slow one-person-at-a-time process. Education is a first step but I'm not sure it's enough. There are curricula in place embracing diverse cultures, histories, building self-esteem, etc. Our schools go to great lengths to teach our youth about historical injustices and atrocities, hoping to raise a more tolerant and compassionate population. But we still have "bias crimes" and "hate crimes". That doesn't mean we should give up. The unfortunate part is that so often the good work of the schools isn't reinforced once the student leaves the building.