Zombies! discussion

The first reading section Chapters through 1-5 to be read on Friday the 16th. Please hold off making your post on that section until no earlier then Saturday the 17th right at midnight (Pacific standard time).

The second section Chapters through 6-8 to be read Saturday 17th. Please hold off making your post on that section until after 6PM on that same day (Saturday 17th) Pacific standard time.

The final section Chapters through 9-13 can be read at your pleasure, BUT this one you will be allowed to make your post anytime after 11:30 AM Pacific standard time on Sunday the 18th.

*Special thanks to Randy for sharing with me, his thoughts regarding the reading break downs.

Because the second BOTM starts up Monday, it would be good (but not required) if we could close this down by Monday evening 8 PM Pacific standard time.

I do not plan to make this a formal discussion format.

Anyone who is in the buddy read, can offer up questions and/or list any points of interests that they would like to chat about with the group.
The idea here is to talk about our reading experience.
Almost anything is fair game provided it is about the book or ideas within the book.

Anyone who has read the book and would like to post their thoughts on the book but not participate in the buddy read, Please wait until all the buddies have posted their comments on the last reading section or on Sunday Afternoon after 4 PM Pacific standard time (which ever comes sooner).
At that time, you (the non-buddy read participate who has read the book) can can offer up any questions and/or list any points of interests that they would like to chat about with the group.

David, No more comments please. Stay out until Monday Morning, a deal is a deal.

I hope this is an enjoyable experience for us all.
Respectfully,
T.

Note to self: Midnight is way to late to be making a post!

My first thought are that the story opens with a bang and builds from there.
While I enjoyed the straight to the action opening, there was little time to reflect on what I was reading, before we pushed forward.
Having said that, I felt the descriptions of the luxury yacht was a bit excessive when you compare how much time was spent in character building.
It might end up that the author was just getting it done in one go?
Next, its still early to say this but does anyone else think that these characters have "too much" in the way of creature comforts?
It reminds me of the Howel's on Gilligan's Island. Would you mind grabbing the martini glasses for me? There in the grass hut.
Yeah, a bit of a disconnect between the fight-for-your- survival against the zombies when your equipment gear has very thing shy of a nuke. :P
Humor and cheesy lines: at first I wasn't sure what to make of them but as the story progressed it became clear that they were put there in an attempt to recognize the "over the top" elements of the scenes taking place.
Like who goes on a luxury yacht with a helicopters, with ex-military friends fully furnished with machine guns?
*insert grunt and ball scratching here*
OK than....

Tammy K. wrote: "... does anyone else think that these characters have "too much" in the way of creature comforts? Like who goes on a luxury yacht with a helicopters, with ex-military friends fully furnished with machine guns?"

Someone who just won several hundred million dollars in the lottery? Not enough to buy an aircraft carrier. I consider the "yacht" a wet dream for your average die-hard zombie apocalypse prepper. It *is* a character in the story, especially with all the toys on board.

Carl is the "real world" for the zombie apocalypse.

I like the two contrasts in the same book.

BTW, since you are on the issue of "being prepared" -- how did you feel about all the prep work in The Remaining series, or the Anno Zombus series?

I don't have anything new to add and agree with both of you. Also, kudos for the Mr. and Mrs. Howell comparison. That made me LOL.

I also like how the two main characters have well thought out plans.

Mike wrote: "I also like how the two main characters have well thought out plans."

Definitely. Even though Carl is besieged and the Sovereign Spirit is not.

I'll start off by saying that I love this book so far! There are a lot of unique characteristics about the zombies that I like. The one thing that stands out the most is that the zombies eat the brains of other fallen zombies. I've read lots of zombie books, but I've never come across that one before. Very cool!

I also enjoyed the Apocalypse Now references, and the GNN reporters (I chuckled at that). I really like the Interludes in Hell. I think having Carl's perspective is a great way to end each chapter. I can't tell if we're supposed to like him or not. I'm not sure if I'll care if he dies, but I'm enjoying reading about his experiences

I thought it was interesting that Scott and his fellow voyagers were so upset by the President's speech. What was he supposed to say, "No one is coming to help you. Everyone panic!"? While I don't agree with shooting looters on sight (obviously), I thought it was good that the President gave people hope, even if it was all B.S.

I was a little disappointed that Scott didn't even consider stopping to help the people on the balconies. I know he can't save everyone, and I'm sure it was the right call, but I don't think I could leave all those people behind. And I know that's exactly how I'm going to die during the zombie apocalypse. I just don't have it in me to not help people that are in need, so I bet I'll die in the first three minutes of the apocalypse, probably trying to save some idiot. Oh well. C'est la vie. Or, I guess, C'est la mort.

I have to admit, when I first read this book, I didn't appreciate the "boys with their shiny toys" aspect to Commodore Scott and his floating lottery-purchased dream boat. A second read helps put it a little more in perspective, especially when I consider Randy's comment about the contrast between Scott's ease and Carl's struggles. Carl has some cool resources, too, but he has to work for them. They don't get plopped on his lap - it's that whole Americana, rugged individualism, pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality that I'm channeling, I suppose.

I guess, in the back of me somewhere, I want to see the Sovereign Spirit get overrun by zombies. And I have to admit that I haven't read past the first book in the series, so I don't even know if this is in David's head or not. But utopias almost never last.

Randy
I would think that the yacht would be a "setting" rather than a "character".
My point was not only about the yacht, it would include the G.I. Joe action figures (aka top of the line military characters), top of the line contractors, ex beauty queen wife, the fastest internet, electronic, communication and so on.
Authors get to write out their characters and settings anyway they want.
Readers will either relate and scream, "Oh, Yeah! Now that's what I'm talking about!" Or "Really?"
Its already clear that this book can not be taken as anything but a "wet dream", that does not mean that it can not be enjoyed for it's over-the-top nature.
If it helps to know, I'm chuckling to myself as much as I'm shaking my head as I read.
---
J.
When I reached that scene, I thought, "Yes, say prayers for them but then send them down some wine and fancy cheese."
Despite what their press agents say, the rich do not become rich by caring for the less fortunate. The caring acts come afterwards when they are trying to purchase their place in an afterlife of their choosing.
As for the characters response to what the president said, meh, to disapprove of a president is as American as apple pie.
Something that stood out was the absolute control Scott and his crew asserted over the information vs the comments about the president.
It came across that the characters believe they know best, those kinds of individuals make the best dictators, eh?

Netanella,
But utopias almost never last.
I agree.
While Carl is in the action of it all, so far he has been pretty fortunate.

Reading section part two:

I think I like story line about Carl the best, there is less talk and more walk.

The main story line with Commodore Scott has me pulling my hair out.
Way too many unnecessary details, placed in there I am sure to make this books target audience smile with delight. I am not this books target audience.

The fact that the men have allow women on the ships is so modern. I mean some men think a woman's place is as fragile lovely princess who hides away in her cabin and paints, or as someone to be order to cook and clean, as sexual conquest or as a temptress to a "good man". It's refreshing when... Oh, who am I fooling?

I'm loving the details. And, yes, it is a testosterone-driven tale. :)

He later added a strong female character because of such complaints. But I think that's in the second book. Wouldn't you like to see Carl hook up with Sonya from the Jango series? :)

Tammy K. wrote: "Something that stood out was the absolute control Scott and his crew asserted over the information vs the comments about the president.

It came across that the characters believe they know best, those kinds of individuals make the best dictators, eh?"

It's one thing that is always an issue during an apocalypse -- who owns what, if anything? Property rights are a function of an operating government. Best to establish the idea of control right away.

And, as a baseball umpire has been known to say, "When you make a decision, be emphatic about it. Even if you're wrong. Otherwise, they'll question every decision you make."

Oh, just to add -- there is one universal constant: MIGHT makes RIGHT.

Carl and Sonya? Hmmm...interesting.

After reading the first two sections of this book, I've decided to start buying lottery tickets. I'm ill-prepared for the zombie apocalypse, but if I had $300 million I'd be sound as a pound.

There are a lot of descriptions about fancy toys: yachts, weapons, and women. I'm glad a strong female character is added later. I look forward to that.

You know what they say, "He who dies with the most toys is still dead." But it seems like Scott's toys are keeping him and his family alive. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. I'm off to do more reading!

Winning 300 million will not buy all these "toys". It would take billions.

Randy in the BOTM Jordan's Brains you commented that people need to follow the government authority when it came to quarantine and not to act like they know better?
Men who are sexist macho men driven by a desire to have power over others with an over-inflated self image are more rational, less likely to endanger themselves and others? Are they also less likely to spread the infection, and so there is no need to handcuff them to a wall?!
Scott's larger than life image is grandiose and delusional.
Just because the other characters in this book follow this character's delusions of self grandeur, rather than dismiss his fanciful ideas does not make him less of a risk to society, it makes him a megalomaniac.
Is the fact that Scott is written as a strong wealthy influential man, were Jordan was written as a self admitted mentally ill individual, living in a group home, with a merger job the difference in the way their actions/thinking is perceived?
The difference between being an eccentric millionaire vs a crazy poor folk?
"Oh, just to add -- there is one universal constant: MIGHT makes RIGHT."
If Jordan had came out with guns, holding his family hostage, while dictating to them what they can and can not do? Assert control over what they knew, when they knew it. Gave himself a title of General. Created a uniform out of Kacky cargo pants, and a dress shirt would he/she be more acceptable?
What if Jordan told others that if they did not follow him than they would be left on their own, and implied worse. Is it helping someone when you then enforce or imply that they must follow you or now owe you allegiance? Or is that an act of conquest? I captured you, now you serve me?

Tammy K. wrote: "...it makes him a megalomaniac"

He certainly isn't delusional about his wealth or his ability to wield power.

I would submit that ANY leader of a group in a zombie apocalypse MUST at least present himself as a megalomaniac, to some degree. Otherwise, he would be overthrown by a group within the group.

Remember what I said? MIGHT makes RIGHT.

The boat of men that tried to storm Hammer's yacht? His "ownership" was enforced by the might of those guns.

What's to prevent a group of people on the yacht from storming a gun locker and trying to take over the ship?

At the point of the apocalypse, does the crew of the ship need to recognize the authority of the captain of the ship? Only to the extent that they respect him as an individual. And if the captain didn't think much of Scott? Gone. But they all respect Scott as an individual. Everyone on board the yacht has known him for at least a year, many much longer, and know the kind of man he is.

Just look at the leaders of the groups in The Walking Dead -- Shane, Rick, Hershel, The Governor. What gave each the right to wield the power? If the "Nebraska" gang of 30 to 40 men came along, could any of them have kept that power? The Governor had those National Guardsmen killed, rather than use them, because they were a cohesive power center that would have been a threat to his authority.

And, going back to Jordan's Brains, where did Jordan establish a strong leader aspect? Even Jordan admitted all the zombie rules were wrong. And the past history with everyone -- a defined delusional individual. Who wants to follow that? And the obsession to save everyone they could? Gets everyone killed in the end. Or at least gets the car stolen. :)

I am not done reading this book, I should be done in an hour or two.

You will always be my good friend Randy.

It is clear that on this book you and I will not agree.

So far, in this last reading section, the words and actions of the characters have solidified my sentiments of this book.

Yet each reader has their own expectation in the books that they read.
Just because my reading experience was not particularly favorable, does not mean others will have the same reading experience.
Each reader's opinion of their reading experience is equally valid.

It's that whole "order versus chaos" understanding. And generally, the only way to establish order, to assert one's control, is through greater power. And sometimes, yes, Randy, we do follow "a defined, delusional individual." Simply because they have the greater power. History has shown us that - from ancient Nero to modern Pol Pot.

Scott's leadership (greater power, assertiveness, intelligence) and Jordan's leadership (empathy, teambuilding) come from entirely different aspects of their characters. And yes, Jordan does show leadership skills, even if we don't agree with them. Jordan's leadership is exhibited in his ability to build a team of zombies, to absorb others into his fold, to motivate his group by showing them a zombie child, not by showing his muscles, his intellect, his greater strength.

Damn, I just made Jordan a "he". At least we know which way Commodore Scott swings :)

First I want to start off by thanking each of the reading buddies for commenting (please keep commenting as you finish.)
Also remember tomorrow David will be able to express his ideas on our ideas. Be sure to check back and see his reflections upon the buddy read.
-----------------------------------------------

I have finished the book.
I think I've expressed, what I believe to be the Con's of the book.
Here are the Pro's:
This story is full of action.
The combat scenes were well described and easy to envision.
Many of the settings are plush, filled with every need a man could want, which made for a flexible environment for the characters to interact.
The over-the-top nature of this story feeds all of the carnal desires of a man in a zombie apocalypse fantasy.

As I have said before, there were many elements to this story that are "off putting" to me. And so this is where I will leave off on the series.
My thoughts on this book, do not reflect my thoughts on the author, David. I wish him much success in his work.

Thanks for reading Voyage of the Dead. I hope you enjoyed it and even if you didn’t, thank you! If you did like it, you might be interested in the new release of “Sovereign Spirit Saga: Volume One” that includes all three of the first books in a single Kindle eBook (released on Sunday at http://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Spiri... It is almost 800 pages. So, when the Apocalypse arrives, where would you WANT to be? I'm hoping you will book a stateroom on the Sovereign Spirit.

I will address most of my response to Tammy, since she created this Buddy Read and has been the most skeptical person to comment. Not that I don’t like skeptics. They have actually helped me improve my writing tremendously. Let me explain how…

First, Tammy is correct in seeing that she was not the “target audience” for Voyage of the Dead. It may seem strange, but the truth is that I was. This story evolved during hundreds of hours of day-dreaming on my way to and from work as a construction superintendent. I would drive down PCH and look at the ocean every morning and afternoon, often stuck in traffic on the return trip. And I would buy the occasional lotto ticket and dream about what I would do with all that $$$$$. At some point I decided that I would buy a boat… No, a SHIP and I even searched the internet for one that I would want.

I found it! The 473 foot “F Diamond” was for sale in 2011 for only 5 million Euros! She probably needed five times that much to make her into what I wanted, but the old girl already had some major upgrades. She had spent the first decade of the new millennium as the floating studio for “Fashion TV” in Europe. They had installed over 600 plasma screen TVs, a film studio and stadium sound system, as well as SatCom and WiFi, etc… It was a real SHIP (former long distance car and passenger ferry built in 1967) that I thought would be the perfect mobile home.

Day dreaming of course. But I can tell you that the ship, and all the “toys” described, are quite real. It is also a fact that someone could purchase all of them all for less than $25 million. I added it up several times. Even the “Expiscator” yacht is based on a real boat that was on sale for $2.9 million through a bank repo in 2011. If you are interesting in seeing photos and descriptions of ships and “toys” described in my books, visit http://davidpforsyth.com/toy-box/

Back writing to the book… As my commute got longer to build a library at Cal Poly Pomona, I started thinking that living on a ship might not be exciting enough. As a fan of apocalyptic fiction, I started thinking about having that ship during a zombie apocalypse… Well, now you know where that took us. But my point is that I wrote the first book for ME. It was my own escape from the real world. My first attempt at writing fiction since high school more than 30 years ago. I never really thought about how others (especially women) might judge my fantasy. But I probably should have! LOL

I was pleasantly surprised by the book’s popularity last year and encouraged to continue the series. I was really shocked that so many women were reading it, and many of them liking it. But I also started getting the type of responses that Tammy has made in this thread. They are fully justified, of course. But it might help to understand the author’s intent with this story.

I wanted to write something different from other zombie books. Instead of being trapped in a farmhouse, or shopping mall, I tried to think of the BEST place to be during a zombie apocalypse. That idea gave birth to the Sovereign Spirit. I also love science fiction adventures. So the reviews that liken my series to Star Trek, or Battlestar Galactica, are from people who got what I was trying to do. Reviews that say the story is not realistic are not far from the mark either. However, I was hoping that people who can suspend disbelief for a zombie apocalypse might find the rest of the story entertaining too.

Nevertheless, I did take some of the negative and constructive criticism to heart as I wrote subsequent books in the series. For example, some stronger female characters are introduced and some of the other women do get off the ship and get their hands dirty. Major characters face death and fates worse than death. Some are even killed off. But the thrust of the story continues to follow a ship, sailing through the apocalypse, facing new threats and challenges at every port of call.

Randy has that part 100% correct. The Sovereign Spirit is a leading character (the title role) in the same way as Battlestar Galactica, Enterprise, and Voyager, etc… It is more than a setting. The apocalypse is the setting. The ship is the vehicle that moves the story and characters through it. I hope that makes sense.

I suppose, in that light, the ship is a utopia of sorts. As I said, it’s the best place I could think of being under those circumstances. But it is not immune to dangers. The Navy is still a threat, as are other survivors at sea and ashore. And I can assure you that the ship will not always be free of infection. Zombies and other people will continue to challenge the Sovereign Spirit and its crew as they boldly go where none may go again. LOL. But I don’t plan to sink her quite yet.

I’m working on the 4th book, as well a collection of prequel novellas that fill in the secondary and tertiary characters in the series. The Saga is intended to total six books, in two volumes, for a grand total of more than 500,000 words (plus the prequel novellas that will be released as “Interludes in Hell”). If my dreams come true, you may even see a TV series someday. I think I have a better chance of that than winning the lottery!

In closing, I hope you enjoyed the book enough to continue reading the series and I am happy to answer additional questions. :)

David P. Forsyth

Voyage of the Dead

Flotilla of the Dead

Deluge of the Dead

David - why water as a zombie-deterrent?

Netanella wrote: "David - why water as a zombie-deterrent?"

Hydrophobia is real symptom of rabies. It is even more pronounced in the case of Super Rabies. Once I settled on the nature of the "zombie" virus, the effects of hydrophobia evolved naturally.

Obviously, it also contributes to the benefits of escaping the apocalypse on boats and ships. :) It was also one of the ways I tried to set my zombies apart from the crowd.

The zombies' fear of water is exploited in several different ways in Flotilla of the Dead and Deluge of the Dead too. ;)

One of my complaints on the original reading of the book was that Scott decided it was water they were afraid of, and broadcast that information. For all he knew, it could have been salt water, or just the salt in the water of the ocean.

He could have been passing on bad information, that could have gotten people killed.

I remember that comment, Randy. But it was the CDC and GNN that described the virus as Super Rabies. Scott was extrapolating from his own knowledge that rabies is also called hydrophobia because victims display an intense aversion to water (of any kind). He reported his conclusion so that others could test the theory. And he may not have been the first or only person to suggest it -- except among the characters in the book. ;)

So my "toy box" would include a souped-up Nerf Super Soaker water gun, a 10-year-old with an Xbox trigger-finger addiction, and an endless supply of water. It helps that I live in the swamps of Florida, where running out of ammo would not be a problem. :)