Lover Awakened discussion

The others have "angry" names like Wrath, Phury, Zsadist, Vhishous and Tohrment. Why doesn't he? I'm curious about whether this is ever addressed in the later books.

My other question might be considered a spoiler....

I'm up to the part where Havers informs John Matthews about his lineage and what warrior bloodline he is descended from. (view spoiler)[ Since he is descended from Darius, I guess it is safe to assume that he is actually Darius reincarnated? (hide spoiler)]

About your spoiler question.
It's never mentioned in a direct manor but you are deffanatly right on that one. He has all these reactions and flashbacks. But I read one of her interviews and she is not going to have it revealed in the books. She says it's can't be known like that, because it will cause to much confusion for the caracters. That is understanable. So you know it is true, but you don't get it in black and white facts. :-)

Then, Darius' name. I've also wondered about that one. I was thinking it has something to do with the fact that he grew up with the glymera. His real father didn't seem to be in the picture as he was kicked out of the house when his mother died by his stepfather. So it's maybe like John, his warior name is Tehrror but everyone calls him John?

I believe it is because he was the one to originally form the BDB as others joined they were called these names establishing them as brothers. oh yeah brrooootttthhhheers! slobber slobber drool.

I second what Yolanda said about Darius's name. I thought it was because he came from the glymera life. And as he wasn't the son of his step father(whom wasn't a brother), he got a regular name. But for the other brothers they got named after their fathers that were brothers themselves over the years. And it's tradition really for all brothers to pass on their name to their sons. But as Darius's real father was never named, he sort of skipped that naming tradition.

I will also have to say as my own personal joke in regards to the brother's names, is that their mothers named them that. I mean given all the hardships they have with births and what not. I can just imagine all the pain they went through during labor and no doubt the crazy stuff they scream out during the process. That when the baby is born/if it survives and the mother does too, she names the boy something befitting of what she went through lol. Like with Phury and Zsadist. Pretty much a play on the fury of all that work to give birth to not one but 2 babies. And the fact she had to be quite the sadist to even get pregnant in the first place lol.

As for the JM/Darius reincarnation stuff. Story aside, I honestly have to say Ward spilled all the beans when she had it on the paper back copy of Lover Mine saying that he's back. Or rather a much beloved character is back. But to me that was totally the writing on the wall when Darius was talking to the Scribe Virgin about coming back when he was on the other side. And then out of nowhere JM shows up. And even later on in the series we saw how the Omega went back in time and got himself a son too. So yea it's safe to say they Darius has been JM since forever.

I stand corrected but as wrath tohr rhage knew Darius when he was alive I just assumed? That's the impression I got reading dark lover but then again that was long ago my old age is showing sigh

Oops didn't Darius form the brotherhood? He built the mansion they all lived in and eventually then all moved in after wellsie was killed

I'm really not sure if Darius formed the brotherhood or not. I actually thought that was all the SV's doing. Given that she created the whole of the vamp race. And put in place the rules for them to feed from each other. I thought it might have had to do with Wrath's dad though originally forming the brotherhood from back in the day. As Darius wasn't quite that old yet. But from the King how it read, was like they were already sorta formed they just joined up to protect the king and the queen. So still not fully sure on that one.

As for the compound, I believe it was said that Darius was living there prior to his death. And once he died and Beth learned he was her father, they all moved in there together. As it had better protection or something. But don't quote me, my memory on some of the BDB details go in and out a bit.

Mmmm interesting wasn't Darius around when wraths dad was king? Yea they started moving in when wellsie was killed by a lesser

Also there was no real reason for the brotherhood as wrath was not an acting king at the time

'The sv didnt create the brotherhood it was done through a selective breeding program hense the primale later taken on by Phury she did this to provide the king with bodyguards do you know who mhurder is I don't have any memory of him did I miss a book! shudder

I still don't believe so on Darius being around when Wrath's dad was king. I mean he was most likely alive at some point true. But most likely in the Bloodletter's camp by then. But definitely not quite old enough to be a Brother just yet if that is how you meant that.

I will agree with you on that point about the present Wrath not needing the BDB as he was not being a king at all. But again going back to his and Beth's book The King. From what we saw in the past the BDB swore loyalty and protection to his mom and dad since waaaaaaay back in the day. And I think that just carried on through the generations. Rather the king was active or not. I mean even in book one without him doing much royal stuff the other guys were so die hard for him. And really had me confused, cause I kept thinking they say he is the blind king, and yea he has his "Merry men" so to speak. But he is out here fighting just like anybody else, never really ruling over anybody but the BDB. So how is he still king? I mean aside for birth of course and inheritance. But dude he was definitely not king at those times.

Now that I say that, I think Ward should have kept that card close to her chest as a reveal later on in the series. And not even have started with his book first. Add a bit more intrigue to their world and them as a group, ya know?

Technically she didn't. But I think given the fact that she had kept the "harem" of the Chosen so they could breed with the Primale and beget said brothers. To me that always read as more than the hand of fate coming into how brothers were created/born.

Muhrder was/is an ex-Brother. Now don't quote me on this. And likely our resident BDB fact finders *cough* Princess Nhya and Kathryn*cough* will swing by to correct me. But from what I remember and being told again, was that he left the BDB do to not liking how something was going on. He was around when present Wrath's dad was king too. ANd he for a time was hooked up with Xhex. And didn't miss a book unless you missed Phury's? again don't quote me on that. As I always forget the exact book he first was introduced. But I do remember being super annoyed at HOW he was introduced. But if you recall a story line with some ghost hunters and a bed and breakfast. Then that is where you should read about him first.

Yes I hear ya on all of that but yes Darius was there when warts dad was king the brotherhood kinda fell apart after his parents were killed so they were floating around out there for awhile not really a band anymore Wrath sloly lost his eyesight and did not want to be king he hated humans and basically just wanted to kill lessers Darius was instrumental when he died because he wanted him to help Beth in her transition this got the ball rolling with the brothers regrouping and wrath coming to realize that because his sight was going he had to 'step up' as king secretly I think the sv wanted her son vhisious to be king she says she wanted to experience the whole creation process but maybe she had a plan hmmmm what do you think? Have you read the king I know silly question Just sayin

Definition as given by Ward.

Black Dagger Brotherhood (pr. N.) Highly trained vampire warriors who protect their species against the Lessening Society. As a result of selective breeding within the race, Brothers possess immense physical and mental strength, as well as rapid healing capabilities. They are not siblings for the most part, and are inducted into the Brotherhood upon nomination by the Brothers. Aggressive, self-reliant, and secretive by nature, they exist apart from civilians, having little contact with members of the other classes except when they need to feed. They are the subjects of legend and object of reverence within the vampire world. They may be killed only by the most serious of wounds, e.g., a gunshot or stab to the heart etc.

As far as I can remember, the Lessening Society has always been around; via SV and Omega on going battle. The BDB took charge of protecting then training Wrath's father, as he did not have fighting skills, but they already existed as a brotherhood.

Yeeeers but the real question we are tryin to figure out is why Darius just has a common name? Not a funky one like phury or thorment

Dhfan4life wrote: "I still don't believe so on Darius being around when Wrath's dad was king. I mean he was most likely alive at some point true. But most likely in the Bloodletter's camp by then. But definitely not ..."

**ahem, ahem** as I clear my throat. :) The Prologue in Lover Mine tells us when Darius joined the brotherhood and also who both of his fathers were. " Darius, begotten son of Tehrror, forsaken son of Marklon." Also, this is in 1644 and the night that he is going out on his "test" with the Brotherhood. He is met by Ahgony (father to Phury & Zsadist), Throe ( father of Throe), Murhder ( I assume is father of Murhder) and Tohrture ( father of Rhage). Wrath the Fair King ( father to Wrath) noticed his fighting skills and decreed that he be taken out of the bloodletters camp and trained by the brotherhood. So K.K. no he did not establish the brotherhood. He and Tohrment are older than Wrath son of Wrath and mate to Beth, but he was already a brother when Wrath started fighting instead of taking the throne.

I believe that Darius did not get a warrior name because his step-father or mahmen named him. Tohrment grew up similar but he was acknowledged by his father, Hharm, hence his given name.

Awesome thanks for clearing that up it's amazing that even though I have read all the books the tidbit of information just didn't stick lol but my impression was that Darius was instrumental in getting the brothers regrouped when he approached a reluctant wrath to help with his daughters transition but whatever it's good to know somebody is paying attention out there lol sooooo maybe you can clarify for me just who the heck is mhurder? I have total mind freeze when it comes to him-yikes!

I think Darius is/was just a unique character & therefore that's why his name is not like the other Brothers. But then also, I've always considered this... the parallels that we see between Darius & JM. How they are connected obviously, but how their lives continue to mirror each other in some form or fashion. Just like we know JM as John Matthew but we also know his Warrior name, but everyone just chooses to address him as John or John Matthew, cos he grew up in the human world & this is the name he's comfortable with & what he's always been called. I've always thought & figured this too, is true of Darius. He grew up in the Glymera, a very refined lifestyle/way of life, the fact that he wasn't raised or lived with his biological father has a lot to do with this as well, but that he also has a Warrior name, definitely. But everyone just addresses him as Darius. Like they do with John Matthew.

I think Darius, like JM, has a warrior name, its just that with Darius we (the readers) were never privy to what that warrior name is.

So this is what I've always thought concerning Darius' name & why it differs from the other Brothers.

That warden! She just keeps us guessing but I love it(sigh)

Murhder was a brother that Xhex was sleeping with we'll say ;) kinda went crazy when she got kidnapped/sold to the Sympath colony. He went up there to rescue her and that's how he found she was half-sympath. He apparently went bat s**t crazy and disappeared. Then in a really stupid storyline(IMO) that was in Lover Mine some ghost TV show went to a house in the Carolina's to investigate a "ghost". On JM and Xhex's mating day she was watching TV and saw the "ghost" and said that is Murhder. I believe Ms. Ward said that he would be back in Caldwell in The Shadows.

Ahhhhh I see I think I have a block with that book lover mine was not one of my favorites so that info isn't sticking (my bad) I didnt get into the story of I'm and xhex thank u for bringing this to light for me. Guess I should go back and read lover mine

K.K. wrote: "Ahhhhh I see I think I have a block with that book lover mine was not one of my favorites so that info isn't sticking (my bad) I didnt get into the story of I'm and xhex thank u for bringing this t..."

No, u don't need to go back & read it. That plot with Murhder, seriously sucked & that's probably why u blocked it out LOL

Just start fresh with him in the next book. But at least u know who Murhder is now :)

Thank you thank you yeah didn't like it very much I'm not to sure about the new book coming out (the shadows) I'm sure it will be good and I will read it but I was kinda hoping she would go back to maybe rhage and Mary or even rhevenge

The Shadows may be the last book I read in this series. They are gonna determine for me if I stay with the BDB or not. So alot is riding on that book for me so I definitely will be reading it. Plus I love Trez & iAm. Been wanting them to have a book since I met them early on in this series.

Yes I hear you I'm feeling the same way I do like treat and iam but the original brothers are the ones who I fell in love with

Oops yes I know he's a treat I just can't spell lol

i believe that Darius is King/Crown something like that!

K.K. wrote: "Yes I hear you I'm feeling the same way I do like treat and iam but the original brothers are the ones who I fell in love with"

K.K. wrote: "Oops yes I know he's a treat I just can't spell lol"

*giggles*

Kathryn wrote: "Dhfan4life wrote: "I still don't believe so on Darius being around when Wrath's dad was king. I mean he was most likely alive at some point true. But most likely in the Bloodletter's camp by then. ..."

double ahem, I don't own any books prior to Lover Unleashed or the King. All library rentals so I always have my hats off to you and Nhya on recalling the finer details as I can't readily pick the books up again to recall all of this. That is why I was awaiting both of you to pop in here and bring the additional deets to the table. ;)

smhl @ Dhfan4life

Awwwwww lmbo@Dhfan4life. Hi @ Princess Nya.

~*~Princess Nya~*~ wrote: "smhl @ Dhfan4life"

Smhl??? No clue what that means. But if it means my memory sucks, you are correcto mundo lol. Although a few days ago it slowly started coming back to me that Darius was around for a while there to be investigating about Xhex's mom when she was taken by that sympath guy. All prior to her becoming No' One/Autumn. But I don't know. Maybe how it was written, just felt like he was doing his own solo sorta thing than actually being part of the BDB. Save for having Tohr as his 'Watson' so to speak.

LOL! smhl= Shaking My Head Laughing.


Hey Kathryn! *waves*

Well, a lot of people did not like the Tohr & Autumn pairing. I've read that in several discussion boards. I think they forgot the past history. A young man who was admiring and caring for a young female only to have her use HIS dagger to take her life shows up 200 years later while you are slowly starting to recover from mourning your UNBORN son and dead shellan could send you into a sort of spiral.

Personally I thought of him as sort of a tortured soul. He was kinda a**holish at times, but I felt that Autumn was equally to blame. Anyway..... before I go off an a rant **giggle** Darius is the tie that actually binds everyone together. In Dark Lover Fritz tells Wrath that Darius had the house and did a lot of things because he always felt the brothers and King should be together. His daughter (Beth) invites everyone to live together. Darius bought Tohr into the fold so to speak and now he has been reincarnated as JM though he has no memories.

He was always trying to take care of everyone and never asked for anything for himself, which IMO is why the SV granted him his wish to see his daughter. He was a selfless, Male of Worth!!! ;)

Kathryn wrote: Well, a lot of people did not like the Tohr & Autumn pairing. I've read that in several discussion boards. I think they forgot the past history. A young man who was admiring and caring for a young female only to have her use HIS dagger to take her life shows up 200 years later while you are slowly starting to recover from mourning your UNBORN son and dead shellan could send you into a sort of spiral. "

Exactly.. I think many did forget the circumstances surrounding Tohr & No'One before their paths crossed again. Whether u like them as a couple or individuals or not, I think many didn't or just refused to take into account those events that occurred with Tohr & No'One. I can understand though, the dislike of this pairing. Cos I too, for a time, was not happy when I learned that No'One would be Tohr's 2nd chance. Even though I knew & understood their past, I was not happy about it. But when I read his book, the whole thing, it just blew me away & completely changed my mind about them. Especially No'One. Not to mention the fact that I had been waiting for Tohr's story since his tragedy happened in book 3. So there u have it. I definitely wanted him happy more than I wanted him to mourn Wellsie forever.

Tohr's book is definitely one of my few faves in this series.

I'll be honest and say that I'm not a fan of the Tohr/Wellsie/No'One storyline because of all of the "cannon" BDB world rules that were violated and/or broken in order for Tohr and No'One to be together, while no such rules were broken for poor Wellsie.

Mochaspresso wrote: "I'll be honest and say that I'm not a fan of the Tohr/Wellsie/No'One storyline because of all of the "cannon" BDB world rules that were violated and/or broken in order for Tohr and No'One to be tog..."

What rules were broken for them to be together?? I'm not being funny I just need a refresh.

I don't remember any rules being broken, per se, with Tohr's book. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things, there were though. But none that were real deal breakers for me concerning his book or the series overall. But I DID NOT like (still don't) how the "In Between" concerning Wellsie & No'One, I didn't like how that was handled at all. That's the only thing I would have changed about Tohr's book. Cos bottom line it was way harsh & not fair. Wellsie didn't take her own life, she was TAKEN along with her child by her race's enemy. In the most cruel way ever. But if Tohr didn't let them go & move on, she would waste away? WTH kinda f*ckery was that?!

No'One, I understood her circumstances & the times she lived in & how females were treated when something like what happened to her, happens to them. it was beyond unfortunate & wrong. But at the end of the day No'One still chose to take the easy way out & end it all, and was granted a way better outcome/punishment/2nd chance. So no, I don't agree with the way the scales were balanced or unbalanced as it were when it came to the Wellsie & No'One situation. But this is the only thing about Tohr's book that really bothered me & that I would change.

But again, Ward said she knew Wellsie was gonna die when writing book 1. She knew she would not be brought back. I thought that move was not only the non popular choice in this genre, but was a gutsy move & made for great writing on Ward's part concerning Tohr's story. But it still didn't give Ward a free pass from me, for what she did or threatened to do with Wellsie in Tohr's book.

Kathryn wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "I'll be honest and say that I'm not a fan of the Tohr/Wellsie/No'One storyline because of all of the "cannon" BDB world rules that were violated and/or broken in order for Toh..."

No rules seem to be broken because JR Ward is very good at retconning and deus ex machina endings. No'One is supposed to be dead. She killed herself and as such, should be the one in the "in between" that Wellsie is caught in during Tohr's book. Wellsie was murdered and should be in the Fade. At the end, it's revealed that No'One has been in her own personal version of an in-between all along. By learning to love and to finally let go, she frees herself to go into the fade and that's where she is supposed to be. However, in several instances, something miraculously intervenes to save certain characters and bring them back in a deus ex machina way. Most of the time, it's the Scribe Virgin, but this time it's Lassiter that comes to the rescue to save No'One from the Fade so that she can be with Tohr.

Also, all of the books up to that point, went on and on about the bonded male. Tohrment, as a bonded male, should not have been attracted to another woman, never mind have the ability to fall in love with another, imo. At least, not as it happened with No'One. Granted, he never technically bonded with No'One and they had history, but something about his finding the ability to move on after Wellsie made me lose a little respect for the BDB bonded male concept. I think the final straw on the entire concept for me was a line in Tohr's book that bothered me a lot. He talked about how some bonded males still occasionally fool around on their wives. So much for the power of the bonded male....

I still loved the books and the series overall. I just wasn't a fan of that particular book and storyline.

Tohr was speaking on how many males can have more than one Shellan, but this is usually done when that male has not "Bonded" to any of them. I believe Rhage was discussing this a bit as well in his book and it's also mentioned in the Insider's Guide somewhere too... but yes, usually the rules of the bonded male are, once he truly bonds with his shellan or female then that's it for him. So in this respect I do think that Ward bent this rule with Tohr til it dang near broke off, but technically, she kinda didn't break the rule either cos he didn't bond with No'One in the traditional sense of the bonded male, and I honestly believe that's why she wrote it that way.

Ladies, I do agree that Wellsie should have gone directly to the Fade.....I think that since he was unsuccessful in his attempts to kill himself that he obviously had a reason for remaining alive (JM, Xhex)the BDB. I don't get why Ms. Ward writes the way she does but in a way this relationship was kind of "foreshadowed". I do think that he didn't release a bonding scent on Autumn did he??? Also, I don't think he said anything about a mating ceremony.................. To side track to my absolute favorite Brother V, that's why I hope against hope that he gets another Shellan that is a vampire and kicks Jane to the curb. ;)

LOL @ Kathryn. I hear ya on the Jane thing. I'm going by what was in print in their book, book 5, and I believe in the IG as well. They never had a mating ceremony etc.. so V is still VERY MUCH fair game. *giggles* if any male's bonding/mate/love story needs to be re-written so that he's with someone else, its V's.

But, no Sis, Tohr never released a Bonding Scent/claim with No'One. Not in their book anyway. But the way he and No'One's story was written, I walked away with the understanding that Tohr does love No'One that he is in love with her, cares deeply for her & all the things a male should when they're committed, but he just never "bonded" with her on that level of a Bonded Male as he did with Wellsie. Like I say in my review for his book, I truly believe he loves No'One, that it wasn't a "settling" type of thing for him. It's much deeper than that. It's just simply a different love than what he had with Wellsie. As it should be.

~*~Princess Nya~*~ wrote: "LOL @ Kathryn. I hear ya on the Jane thing. I'm going by what was in print in their book, book 5, and I believe in the IG as well. They never had a mating ceremony etc.. so V is still VERY MUCH fai..."

But wait though didn't they say in Lover Unleashed that he and Jane were going to have a mating ceremony. Kind of after he came out more about his feelings towards stuff in general?

I will concur that I'll never be a fan of Tohr and No'One. Too fast, too soon, that in between junk was really hell and Ward needs a massive spanking for her reasons behind all that. And I still say personally a death of a great character in Tohr in that book all the way. Grief may make you do some things out of character. But she(Ward) put Tohr through massive hell and back. And had him looking straight stupid more times than not. Just made no sense to me at all.

In Lover Unleashed the big issue was, it was said they were already mated or had a mating ceremony of some sort. Which was BS and a plot hole, cos in their book Lover Unbound, & the IG, they never got mated. It was clearly stated V hadn't done that. So that's why many fans were like "When did V & Jane get mated?" when they read Lover Unleashed.

OR (because I'm confusing myself)LOL, it was stated that they were already mated, but in Lover Unleashed, it states they had yet to get mated... Either way, Lover Unbound & the IG clearly said something different from what Lover Unleashed said & that's where all the confusion came from.

Of course Ward never fully explained this, cos it was an obvious error in their plot continuity. I don't even think she addressed it at all to be honest.

Then in that case Ward needs another spanking for all this confusion. ANd hopefully things are clearer in the Shadows.

Dhfan4life wrote: "Then in that case Ward needs another spanking for all this confusion. ANd hopefully things are clearer in the Shadows."

LOL! I agree

I swear though in general. Instead of these companion books for long series. Readers need freaking timelines, flow charts, and in general a book of factual notes and stuff. Just to cross reference so you know what is what by each book or something. Heck even a newsletter system like that or something maybe. Just a task(at least for moi) to keep so much straight.

Dhfan4life wrote: "I swear though in general. Instead of these companion books for long series. Readers need freaking timelines, flow charts, and in general a book of factual notes and stuff. Just to cross reference ..."

Again, I agree :)

I think in Payne's book whatever the name **sigh** V realizes that he has never truly mated Jane and he vows to do so. Toward the end was when he f'd her in the bathroom and then kissed her in public (the game room). They still didn't have the mating ceremony and I hope Jane gets fed up and V meets someone else. As we discussed previously she isn't even living up to being the Brotherhood's doctor.

So, she can disappear and we can get a new person ** private happy dance** I know this won't happen but a girl can still hope. ;0

Kathryn wrote: They still didn't have the mating ceremony and I hope Jane gets fed up and V meets someone else. As we discussed previously she isn't even living up to being the Brotherhood's doctor.

So, she can disappear and we can get a new person ** private happy dance** I know this won't happen but a girl can still hope. ;0


This is gonna be us, Sis, if that were to happen..

~*~Princess Nya~*~ wrote: "Kathryn wrote: They still didn't have the mating ceremony and I hope Jane gets fed up and V meets someone else. As we discussed previously she isn't even living up to being the Brotherhood's doctor..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I know.