Historical Fictionistas discussion

Hi - so of course, month two of the new process, and I lose track of days! I swear, there's no hope for me. :(

Anyway... a few months ago we had a "Birth of a..." theme, and since December is the last month of the year, I thought maybe we'd have a matching "Death of a..." theme. It can be a person, an empire, a concept, family line, etc. Please mention who or what ends/dies in your nomination post.

Can be HF or Nonfiction, no historical fantasy or alternate history this round.

Here's the nomination info again:
The poll will be limited to TEN books only. Each person gets ONE nomination and ONE second, each. Nominations will need to be seconded to make it onto the poll, up to ten, determined by number of times each book has been seconded.

For a refresher on the process, view the full post here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Nomination Rules:
Please check to make sure that we have not already read the book you're nominating. You can check this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Or the group bookshelf: https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...

No self-nominations (unless specifically allowed by the monthly theme).

Please include (and preferably link to) the title and the author in text, not cover images. Book cover images without a text title will not be counted. Nominations without book AND author will not be counted.

If nominating a book in a series: Books must be read in order of publication.
If the GR series page is ordered by story chronology, it is acceptable to nominate books other than the first in the series, as long as the publication order is followed.

Example: A book that is 3rd in a series (by story chronology) but was published in 2000 will be eligible over book 1 published in 2005.

Unless otherwise specified, books must be Historical Fiction or Period fiction. Nonfiction, Historical Fantasy, Alternate History and other subgenres are eligible when specified by theme only.

Let me know if you have questions!

The poll will run until the 22nd, since I'm starting it a day late, and the poll will go up on the 23rd and run through the 30th. :)

I nominate The devil in the white city by Erik Larson

This story is about a serial killer and then Chicago World Fair

It is two true stories in one the notorious Dr Holmes serial killer and the design and construction of the world Fair in Chicago in the eighteen nineties.

I'm not sure how that fits the theme, Margaret. For it to fit, it would need to be about the end of the Chicago World's Fair, or something like that. Is that part of the book?

Becky wrote: "I'm not sure how that fits the theme, Margaret. For it to fit, it would need to be about the end of the Chicago World's Fair, or something like that. Is that part of the book?"

Well with Holmes being a serial killer, people die...

The End of Sparta by Victor Davis Hanson.

If this is not acceptable: The Death of Caesar: The Story of History’s Most Famous Assassination by Barry Strauss.

Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "Well with Holmes being a serial killer, people die... "

LOL yes, but I'm looking for more of a specific historical person or event's end. If the book includes the end of the World Fair, or of HHH himself or his murder spree, then I'll allow it, but if it just contains death in general, I don't think it fits.

It's been a while since I read that book but if I remember it includes the serial killers trial and death. I know his trial is included but I can't remember if it also talks about his death. You could say though it's the death of his killing spray because he is eventually caught.

*spree

Would A Death in the Family by James Agee qualify as historical fiction? If so, I will nominate. The qualifications are pretty evident just from the title, but to go a little further, its focus is on the aftermath of an unexpected death.

I nominate Waiting on Zapote Street: Love and Loss in Castro's Cuba by Betty Viamontes. It captures the death of the romantic ideals of a young Cuban couple after Castro's revolution.

I've not yet finished reading Devil in white city so can't say for it deals with either the end of Holmes or the end of the Fair. It's a fascinating read and it does deal within the death of many women Sorry if I misunderstood the theme.

I'd like to nominate Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror: The Fate of Marie Antoinette's Daughter by Susan Nagel as it is about the end of the French monarchy and the Bourbon Dynasty.

I nominate Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania by Erik Larson. It's about the "death" of the Lusitania.

I'd also like to second Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror: The Fate of Marie Antoinette's Daughter .

I nominate Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K Massie

I second dead wake

I second dead wake

May I nominate "Caleb's Crossing" by Geraldine Brooks?

Jasmine wrote: "It's been a while since I read that book but if I remember it includes the serial killers trial and death. I know his trial is included but I can't remember if it also talks about his death. You co..."

Thanks Jasmine. I'll allow it then. :)

I will second The End of Sparta if it's an allowed book.

I would like to nominate The Sunne in Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman as it deals with the end of the Wars of the Roses and the end of other people (I feel like saying who is a tad bit of a spoiler ;) )

The Death of Attila by Cecelia Holland. Self-explanatory?

I also second Dead.Wake

I second The Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America by Erik Larson

I nominate The Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey. It is about both the death of Richard III and the death/end of the Plantagenets. A quick read and a modern classic.

I nominate Dreams of the Red Phoenix, which opens with the main character mourning the death of her husband and follows the effect of that loss on her and her son—and more generally, the death of Nationalist China.

The author's previous novel, River of Dust, also explores themes of loss and death, but I can't explain how without giving away spoilers.

I second The Daughter of Time.

Maureen - Sorry, it doesn't look as though A Death In The Family is HF according to our guidelines for the group. Feel free to nominate another book. :)

Michele - Can you specify how Caleb's Crossing fits the theme? I read the description and nothing is jumping out at me, but I could just be missing the obvious.

Suzanne - Waiting on Zapote Street has already been nominated - do you want to second it and nominate something of your own?

Let me know if I've missed anything.

------------------------------------------------------------
Nominated & Seconded/On the poll:
Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania - 2 Seconds
Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror: The Fate of Marie Antoinette's Daughter - 1 second
The End of Sparta - 1 second
The Devil in the White City- 1 second


Nominated, Not Yet Seconded:
Waiting on Zapote Street: Love and Loss in Castro's Cuba
Nicholas and Alexandra
Treason
The Sunne in Splendour
The Death of Attila
Dreams of the Red Phoenix

Just curious as to how The Daughter of Time is eligible since it's listed at the 5th book in a series?

I second Nicholas and Alexandra and nominate Ragnarok by A.S. Byatt, about the end of the Norse gods.

Gretchen wrote: "Just curious as to how The Daughter of Time is eligible since it's listed at the 5th book in a series?"

Curses. I always miss something! Thanks, Gretchen - you're right, it's not eligible based on that.

Nominated & Seconded/On the poll:
Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania - 2 Seconds
Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror: The Fate of Marie Antoinette's Daughter - 1 second
The End of Sparta - 1 second
The Devil in the White City- 1 second
Nicholas and Alexandra - 1 Second
Dreams of the Red Phoenix- 1 Second


Nominated, Not Yet Seconded:
Waiting on Zapote Street: Love and Loss in Castro's Cuba
Treason
The Sunne in Splendour
The Death of Attila
Dreams of the Red Phoenix
Ragnarok
The Far Pavilions

I second The Death Of Attila.

Gretchen - It's a stand alone book. She wrote several featuring Inspector Grant but each is a stand alone.

Deborah wrote: "Gretchen - It's a stand alone book. She wrote several featuring Inspector Grant but each is a stand alone."

Gretchen is right - even if each one is stand-alone, per our rules in the group, if a book is listed as part of a series, we must read them in order of publication. Since The Daughter of Time is the 5th book in the series in publication order, it's ineligible per our rules. I'm sorry. I overlooked it, or I would have disqualified it directly.

Please go ahead and nominate something else.

Dreams of the Red Phoenix sounds interesting, I seconded it.

oh....never spotted that rule, sorry - it was never written as a series btw - it's only on GR it's suddenly become one. That will rule out a heck of a lot of books that happen to have a common denominator and no more. I notice a lot of things are on here as series' when they really aren't - pity.

Is this the bit you mean?

"If nominating a book in a series: Books must be read in order of publication.
If the GR series page is ordered by story chronology, it is acceptable to nominate books other than the first in the series, as long as the publication order is followed.

Example: A book that is 3rd in a series (by story chronology) but was published in 2000 will be eligible over book 1 published in 2005." Just it doesn't read like that to me? It seems to me to say that I can nominate a part of a series. Also, there are books in the linked lists that are from series'? Sorry, it's a bit confusing to a newcomer!


Anyway, I do recommend it to anyone who likes historical fiction. If you keep in mind when it was written and the recent changes in how the subject is seen, you'd have to conclude Tey was prescient!

Instead I will nominate The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye - about the end of the Raj in India, ultimately. Please note, the write-up on here is not a very good reflection - it's an epic type novel written via a love story - but it's more epic than romantical. Biggest drawback is it's a long book, for those who don't eat books - but worth it!

Deborah, the problem with series books is that unless I've read them, I don't know when they're just standalones with a common denominator, as you say, or when they are a series that must be read in order or the story doesn't work (or critical details are missing, or things are spoiled), or if they are hybrids, which are each self-contained books, but have a larger overall story arc.

There's no way that I could read every HF, historical nonfiction, and period book out there, even if it was all I read (and it is not). And, to confuse matters even more, there are conflicting schools of thought on Goodreads as to how the series page should be ordered. Some are by publication, some are by in-story chronology. So for the group, and my own sanity, the rule is that we will read in order of publication.

The bit you quoted is my attempt at explaining when the first book, by date of publication, is actually mid-series if you're going by the story timeline, because the author went back and added prequels. So, in that case, nominating a mid-series book would be OK, because it was published first.

I hope that helps answer your question. If not, please PM me. :)

Yes, very helpful - thank you so much, Becky! It's a pity so much has been tabulated as series' on GR when it isn't, in fact - but am happy to go with what the Romans do in Rome :)

If The Daughter of Time doesn't qualify, I will switch my second to The Sunne in Splendour.

Thanks for seconding Dreams of the Red Phoenix.

I change my seconding to the Far Pavilions as my previous one has two seconds.

Previously seconded Dead Wake.

Nominated & Seconded/On the poll:
Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania - 1 Second
Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror: The Fate of Marie Antoinette's Daughter - 1 second
The End of Sparta - 1 second
The Devil in the White City- 1 second
Nicholas and Alexandra - 1 Second
Dreams of the Red Phoenix- 1 Second
The Sunne in Splendour - 1 second
The Far Pavilions- 1 second


Nominated, Not Yet Seconded:
Waiting on Zapote Street: Love and Loss in Castro's Cuba
Treason
The Death of Attila
Dreams of the Red Phoenix
Ragnarok

I would like to nominate LIFE AFTER LIFE by Kate Atkinson. I can't link in the app so I hope typing it out "in text" is okay. It doesn't appear on the groups shelves and it deals with many endings, beginnings and endings life wise (think Groundhog Day the movie but with each new start things going differently or not based on gut instincts aka possible vague recollections from past lives (of the same life tho.) ) and along with individual lives with the family unit intact's end/death of happier times, of moms happiness and the end of a world war. I could be wrong but feel like this book was made for this theme read.
In addition I'd like to SECOND : DEAD WAKE the sinking of the Lousitania by Erik Larsen. I have only read a few chapters and took a break to read another with a buddy and tho I haven't gotten back to it I heard from my Grandpa (whom I buy his nook books for ) that after I recommended he check this one out bc it sounded so interesting he went on to read it and is in the home stretch now (so was calling for another suggestion for his next read ) and he highly recommended Dead Wake saying it had been a very fascinating book and he'd enjoyed it very much. So tho I'd honestly started tiring of some of the captains background and was itching to move on to the final voyage setting sail, I'm now excited to get back to the story and thought you all might join me. The end/death theme is fairly obvious here; the huge loss of life in the sinking, loss of family life for survivors, loss of a great ship and I'm sure loss of the feeling of being sure to be coming home alive and well for those considering future trips on future big beautiful ships no matter how great their safety record and that of their captains' to date had been. As many wealthy powerful n even famous folks were on any given such crossing back then until we read it one can only speculate on how many other losses ie endings these deaths on this ship created and in how many various fields and businesses / the arts, etc.
Sorry if that's more 5cents than my 2 cents. I'm anxious tonight which makes me for all intents kind of hyper. LOL I guess I like my choices and wanted to share! Happy voting!

Question if I may? I am usually lucky if I get to the poll so I've not done nominations in my groups often at all.
I noticed Margaret for an example withdrew her second on a title n changed it bc the previous one already had another second maybe more. The way I read the guidelines if over TEN titles have been seconded then it is this count of HOW MANY seconds a title has that decides which get to stick around for the poll. Am I missing something? Or wouldn't one want as many seconds as possible in that case?
I can see if one wants a number of good choices n doesn't expect over ten to make it in too. I'm just trying to make sure I am grasping the method here. Thx hope you don't mind Margaret that I used you for my example but it was your follow up post that made me wonder if I had it right. Thx!!

As I understand it we are only allowed one second and The Far Pavilions would not be included without a second. It's a great book and worthy to be included. That's why I changed.

I'll second Treason. As much as I absolutely ADORE The Sunne in Splendour, I like to try to get something I haven't read yet nominated, and this book seems to be along the same timeline.

Becky wrote: "Nominated & Seconded/On the poll:"

Death of Attila has a second; message 34. :)

Deborah wrote: "oh....never spotted that rule, sorry - it was never written as a series btw - it's only on GR it's suddenly become one. That will rule out a heck of a lot of books that happen to have a common deno..."

I second Far Pavilions

I second Ragnarok

I will second Ragnarok.