Clean Romances discussion

Hi all!

Everyone has opinions and everyone has different views on what can be overlooked and what cannot. To that end, I have a question or two or three...

What do you, as a reader, consider to be bad language in a novel? What words make you throw down a book and refuse to pick it up again? Are there allowances for the villain in a novel? Or for scenes of emotional stress?

I'm just curious.

(Obviously, I'm not asking anyone to literally spell these words out. Kind of defeats the purpose, huh?) :o)

I really don't like the constant use of it, or the big ones. If it's just a little that's easy to skip then I'll finish the book without a problem. If every word offended me, I don't think I could read much other than religion books.

Jess wrote: "I really don't like the constant use of it, or the big ones. If it's just a little that's easy to skip then I'll finish the book without a problem. If every word offended me, I don't think I could read much other than religion books."

Very good points, Jess. Thank you for posting your opinion.

:o)

If its not too graphic I tend to just overlook it, like I do with some romances that have bedroom scenes in them. But if its really bad, I usually just move on to another book.

I can't stand a lot of swearing, especially the constant use of the "F" word. I've had to put books down for that reason and it's really too bad. Same thing for sex scenes.

I do, however, understand if there is an occasional curse word (nothing big) or if there is the idea that the characters had sex, but it just fades out and doesn't go into the details.

(Jess, I agree with everything you said)

I can tolerate swear words better than sex scenes. Most of the time I just get irritated at those scenes because most of the time they seem so unnecessary to the story. Like Jill said though, the fade out deal isn't as bad as the need to skip several pages, or to the end of the book just to see if my favorite character made it.

Jess - yes, I hate it when the sex scene is just pointless. That's a big reason I can't stand books like the House of Night series by PC and Kristin Cast. I wanted to smack the main character for her obviously stupid moral choices. I haven't continued with the series for that reason and others.

I have a very low tolerance for bad language...even more so than sex scenes. The F word in particular gets me. In my books, I just say "he swore" or "he cursed" rather than actually telling the reader what he says. I don't care if the character is man or woman or villain, I don't want to know what word they actually use. In one instance, my hero makes a "derogatory comment" about his friends "questionable parentage." I'm sure the reader got the point without that word being used. My heroes often call each other "dog" instead of something stronger, and really, dog, in the Regency World, was actually pretty insulting.

I've used "dog", too. Churl, dastard (just be careful of the "d" ;-) ), blackguard...there are lots of nifty insulting words to call a man without crossing an uncomfortable line. ;-)

Churl? That's a new one. I like it...it's kinda funny. I've also used cur (which is basically the same thing as dog) but I like churl. I'll have to remember that one.

Oh, I like "cur"! I"ve used that one, too. :-)

Jill wrote: "Jess - yes, I hate it when the sex scene is just pointless. That's a big reason I can't stand books like the House of Night series by PC and Kristin Cast. I wanted to smack the main character for h..."


I have read more and more things that make realize I chose wisely when I decided not to read those books.

Jill wrote: "I can't stand a lot of swearing, especially the constant use of the "F" word. I've had to put books down for that reason and it's really too bad. Same thing for sex scenes.

I do, however, understa..."


I don't want the hero cussing at the heroine or calling her awful names, and vice versa. I don't like a lot of bad language during sex scenes.

I think if the story is about military or cops or those kinds of fields, it's very common for the language to be rough, but I don't want every third word to be a cuss word. I don't mind if enough is peppered in there to be realistic. But on the other hand, I'd prefer there to not be a lot of bad language.

Yeah, realistic is important, but I still think the author can dance around those words if he/she thinks it's important.
I once read 'profanity the the sign of a small mind trying to express itself forcefully.' I never forgot that and the same thing can be said of cursing/swearing. To me, "clean" applies both to sexual as well as vocabulary. I accept not everyone feels that way, but I have stopped reading best-selling authors because of the amount of swearing their books contain.
Okay, I'm going to shut up now that I've said my peace. Or is that piece?

I've seen it both ways: "Said my peace" and "Said my piece". I always used to write it the first way, until I saw people writing it the second way and thought maybe I was wrong. But then I saw someone write it the first way again. (These are all in published novels.) So does anyone know definitively which version is correct?

I always thought it was the first one . . . (peace)

Anyway, I have stopped in the middle of a best-sellers book because 1. It made me slip into a depression and 2. She used the "F" word so many times it was insane. I won't pick up another one of her books. Ever.

I buy most of my books on Abebooks.com or at Goodwill. Sometimes I'll bring one home that looked really good by the description on the back cover and then part way through it I find the F word so it goes in the give away bin in the garage. There was one I read called the Outsider that was a really good book and almost to the very end there was a sex scene that made me blush and that one had to go in the bin too. It's too bad because the story was good otherwise. Now I can't recommend it to anyone.

I can let only the curse words slide that are found in the bible. Other crude words are unneeded and show a lack of imagination/vocabulary.

For me, there are many words that I'll let slip if it's a really good book, like The Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell (which is based on true events) and Deception Point by Dan Brown. I prefer not to have to read the F, GD, and S-words while reading, but it's a bit unavoidable, considering a good majority of the books that I like to read have them in it.

The words, if I see in a book, that I will not ever pick up the book again if used are the N-word and C-word. However, The Secret Life of Bees is kind of an exception considering it's based when the civil rights movement was put into place. It's expected. But in modern novels and such, the N-word is unacceptable in my opinion.

Donna wrote: "I have a very low tolerance for bad language...even more so than sex scenes. The F word in particular gets me. In my books, I just say "he swore" or "he cursed" rather than actually telling the re..."

Sherri wrote: "If its not too graphic I tend to just overlook it, like I do with some romances that have bedroom scenes in them. But if its really bad, I usually just move on to another book."

I'd have to agree with both accounts here. I don't like to use swear words (I'm like Donna and say "he swore" or something like that) or like to read them but if I come across them and they're pretty sparse, I replace the word in my head with a non-swear word and keep going. If there's too much then I'll probably mosey on.

Cheers to ya'll!! I TOTALLY agree with almost everything said. I think a swear word (especially the "bad" ones) immediately stop the flow of the story. No matter what the intention, the reader stops and notices it (consiously or not) and that takes away from the reading experience. Words like "cur" "churl" etc. don't have the same effect. We get the message meant without interrupting the enjoyment.

I will stop reading a book if it has "GD" or Jesus Christ used as a derogatory word or in vain! I don't like reading any of the others either but will often take a marker and mark it out.

I like for sex scenes to be a bit of a mystery! Yeah a little kissing and petting is ok with me BUT I do NOT want to hear the body party being rubbed or any detail about said body parts. I HATE it when a lewd word is used for private parts!

I don't care how big or little the sex scene is, if it is in there, I will stop reading the book- the author even. If they do it once in one of their books, they are more likely to keep on getting worse. The idea that "it's only a little" or "it won't happen" again has led me to read books that I feel guilty or really crummy and unhappy after reading them.
I tolerate the swearing if it happens very rarely and the Lord's name is not taken in vain.
I want to be able to read a book, enjoy it, and suggest if to friends without having to say, "it's good, except for..."

Breanna, I totally agree with you. I've only actually finished a book like that once, and I completely regretted it. I could tell from the very beginning what was going to be included in the climax, but for whatever reason I kept telling myself that it would actually be too brazen. But it was. Since then, I have put down at least two books when I saw they were getting a little racy.

Congradulations on putting those down. I had to do that recently, too. It always so hard to do, because you want to know what happens. I'm pretty excited about this group.

I will not tolerate the Lord's name being used inappropriately, or the "f bomb". I really don't like any swear words being used at all. I am able to look past 1 or 2, but find it offensive if more are used. I feel that there are other words that can be used. And I feel that it is better for an author to be safe than sorry. People are not going to be offended if no swear words are used, but they might possibly be if some are used.
About the discussion earlier about I've said my piece or peace. I always say piece. But I have been confused about this one: Piece of mind, or peace of mind. I always say the latter. What do you think?

"Piece of mind" would be used like "I'm giving you a piece of my mind" meaning a thought or like a piece of what your thinking, if that make sense. "Peace of mind" would be used in a sentence like "The calming sound gave me peace of mind", meaning to ease your worrying, or put your mind at peace.

Yes, I guess they can be interchanged depending on the situation. It just seems like when I see it typed a lot it is a different way than I would have imagined it to be.

Actually, they are not interchangeable. "Piece" and "peace" have two different meanings.

So after you've said your piece, and given someone a piece of your mind, you have peace of mind. :)

Diane the Nitpicker

http://www.dianefarrbooks.com

Well said Diane :)

LOL Diane! So in my opinion that would mean that they are interchangeable. In your example, I would say that you interchanged them. You can use both peace and piece, depending on how you are using them. Yes, they are different words, but they do sound the same when you are talking to someone.

I don't swear, but one of my characters (based on a real-life human being) was permitted to use the 'f' word about four times, as he's a very foul individual and swears like a trooper. I don't think he would have seemed so real (and shocking) if he hadn't been allowed a little bad language. I went back and forth about it for an age, but ultimately the character insisted, and who am I to argue with him?

I rarely ever stop reading a book what I will do is skip over parts that annoy me, like I have to do with alot of romance novels. So swearing isn't to bad for me it's more of the sex scene after sex scene that I can't stand

I'm afraid the "f" word would do a book in for me. I'm not fond of the "sh" word, either. I'd have difficulty finishing a book with either of these words in it. That's just me.

I can't handle the Lord's name in vain or the F-word. Either one of those would have me setting a book down. Which really limits what I can read!
I really wish they would rate books so you wouldn't get into a book then have to chuck it across the room when the crudeness is revealed on page 159.

Cami wrote: "I can't handle the Lord's name in vain or the F-word. Either one of those would have me setting a book down. Which really limits what I can read!
I really wish they would rate books so you wouldn'..."

I totally agree!! They really are no different than movies so why shouldn't they have a rating too.

I believe a rating system would help those of us who write "clean." I think there is a huge crowd looking for romance that isn't crude, but because there's no rating they only dare read inspy. I fall into that category unless someone has recommended a book to me.

I have been "gun shy" by reading a romance that I thought was going to be a good "clean" romance and then like you said... right in the middle starts the sex and cursing! I hate it because if I have already made it to the middle of the book I am hooked.

I am totally with you guys!! At the first of the movie when it shows the rating it tells why it is rated the way it is. Nudity, crude, etc. If I read a rating in a book where it said there was sexual references, profanity, etc. I would not even read the book and waste my time.

Hi Everyone,

How refreshing to be part of this group. I know some of you as I have reviewed your good books!! As a reviewer I have a policy on my blog about the kind of books that I review, so most books that I read are clean.

I also have a rating system that tells you exactly what is in the book. For example, if I get a book that has a few f-words, then I rate it P for profanity and I mention it in my review. I even count how many swear words and which type. (Does not happen often). I have a pretty precise rating system. I rate for explicit sex, profanity, graphic violence and paranormal themes (you'd be surprised how the occult is made to seem good these days).

Looking forward to getting to know you all better!

My blog is http://libraryofcleanreads.blogspot.com

Laura Fabiani
author of Daughter of Mine
http://www.laurafabiani.com

It's so crass I don't even want to say it here, but I HATE the four letter word that starts with a "T" for breasts. It's so redneck and trashy. I can't stand to hear it much less read it. I mean, REALLY!

BTW--I think it's great to rate books even though people start screaming whenever the topic comes up. When I am sent books to review in a list, I always look at the heat ratings to decide. Like or not, I think readers want to know what they are getting.

Laura wrote: "Hi Everyone,

How refreshing to be part of this group. I know some of you as I have reviewed your good books!! As a reviewer I have a policy on my blog about the kind of books that I review, so m..."

Laura really does have a great review site! I'd highly recommend it to everyone in this group.

I was amazed how upset RWA writers got when Ethan Ellenberg suggested a rating system a few years ago in RWR. I really think it would help everyone. Someone who wants to read sex is going to be pretty disappointed if they buy one of my books!

I suspect that authors don't want their books rated, because it might decrease their sales. If a reader knows ahead of time that a book is filled with sex and profanity, they might not buy a copy. But if they just think the unrated blurb sounds interesting, they might take a chance and buy the book. Even if they end up not finishing it because of the S & P, the author has still made a sale. That's just my theory, anyway.

I am eagerly awaiting the day when I get a nasty review on Amazon because someone bought one of my books thinking it was an ordinary historical romance and they were disappointed. My whole goal was to write a deeply emotional novel that didn't rely on sex to build the emotion. (Did any of that make sense, or only to me? My head is pounding and that makes forming sentences rather difficult...) Ugh.

I agree and I know all my relatives would as well: books need a rating system. And yes, Joyce, you are probably right.

I may have used "d" a couple of times in various books, but usually if I figure the character would swear there, I just say that they swore. Adding the actual word is very rarely necessary--but then, my characters have never been street toughs or whatever so I haven't had to worry about portraying them accurately.

It seems like nowadays, swear words are a given. Words that would appear in a "PG" movie, like d--n or h--l or whatever, I don't really pay much attention to. It's the bigger ones, the F word and (for me) the GD word especially, that really bother me, particularly in YA books. I know enough real life teens who cuss, I don't want to know any imaginary ones who do, too!

But I'm with Jess - sex scenes bother me way more, even the "implied only" ones. I know, I'm hardcore I guess :P

I will speak for myself. I don't like to see cuss words in a book or even hear them on TV or movies. I don't even like to hear people cuss in real life.

Amelia wrote: "It seems like nowadays, swear words are a given. Words that would appear in a "PG" movie, like d--n or h--l or whatever, I don't really pay much attention to. It's the bigger ones, the F word and (..."
Even though it wasn't much, I was still upset in the Silver Blade!!! I loved it up till that point!