Multiverse--Michael Moorcock discussion

Let's move this thread here until Miscellany comes back?

My last read was Revenge of the Rose.
More complex than the corum books, I may need to read again to understand it better. So many Oonas!

Dan Simmons Lovedeath. Picked this one up a couple months ago. Just now got around to it. I didn't realize before that it is a collection of novellas. Simmons is always amazing.

Finished Embassytown, now starting the Domains Of Koriphon by the great Jack Vance. This year I read many of his books.

My local science fiction book club voted to read Kim Stanley Robinson's The Years of Rice and Salt this month. I'm really digging it so far; there're quite a few metafictional elements that add flourishes and light-hearted touches to an otherwise realistic, and often grim, alternate-history epic.

Finally! Started reading, 'Byzantium Endures.' Just over a hundred pages in. From Pyat's young life in Kiev, through his short time in Odessa and back to the railway station in Kiev that he started out from.

Odessa is a feast. Pyat is insane. A history of the 20th century is laid out before you, in a fantastical rich degree of detail, but to experience it, you must be trapped inside the mind of a mad man.

There's a wealth of warm humanity, characters to warm to, but the narrator-observer himself, misses almost everything, except where it benefits him.

Three Brand pilsners on my favourite sunny terrace. A decent read. Now, still sitting here, wondering what happens next and what happens to the other characters.

Had to watch two episodes of Lovejoy, ('Napoleon's Commode' and 'The Prague Sun'), tonight, to unwind. 'The Prague Sun,' is a good old fashioned cold war thriller, set in Central Europe. Can't remember if it's the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia, at the time.

But, Donald Pleasance is in it and Peter Vaughn and Dinah Sheridan. Central to the plot is a diamond encrusted monstrance a Catholic religious artifact. A holder for the Holy Wafer/Host. A Christmas special with a weirdly sacred twist.

'Napoleon's Commode,' featured a nice guest star turn from, Alexei Sayle. Playing a benignly dodgy geezer with a variable cockney accent.

'Byzantium Endures' remains intense in the memory.

'For this is Hell, nor am I out of it. '

Reminds me of 'Faustus,' although Pyat's personal Mephistopheles, is himself.

Also reminds me of Woody Allen's, 'Zelig.' Perhaps more so. Zelig is a chameleon, passing through history like a ghost. Came out in 1983, 'Byzantium Endures,' came out in 1981. I'd almost be willing to bet that it had been read. I'm not a betting man.

Also brought to mind the 'for or against a special relation with Ukraine' referendum, here in the Netherlands. Didn't vote. Didn't see any point in encouraging a peculiarly democratic piece of twisted populist propaganda. Didn't help. Even though, I do find the veto very interesting, nonetheless. As part of a study into, 'The Nature of the Catastrophe.'

My Great Great Great Grandfather was a sniper in the Crimea, you know.

Pietro_Mercurios wrote: "Had to watch two episodes of Lovejoy, ('Napoleon's Commode' and 'The Prague Sun'), tonight, to unwind. 'The Prague Sun,' is a good old fashioned cold war thriller, set in Central Europe. Can't remember if it's the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia, at the time."

Not surprising you can't remember. The Lovejoy is from 1992, and Czechoslovakia officially dissolved on January 1, 1993.

"Didn't see any point in encouraging a peculiarly democratic piece of twisted populist propaganda."

Yeah. I don't even know (though can guess) which side of that conflict the referendum was encouraging, but you can't win either way.

Daniel wrote: "Finished Embassytown, now starting the Domains Of Koriphon by the great Jack Vance. This year I read many of his books."

And while I'm here: I just started rereading Vance's "Demon Princes". I read The Star King yesterday afternoon and then straight into The Killing Machine.

I have been reading a lot of different things at the same time. The nice thing about an e-reader is that you can switch between books without having to carry an entire stack around with you during lunch break. I have just finished the first two books in the Amber series, but I don't think that the series is for me. While I liked the world-building the author did, I honestly couldn't care for any of the characters introduced.

Right now, though, I'm working my way through Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It's fun to see what stories do and don't conform to the Hero Cycle (though most of the time I forget to look for these things and end up getting sucked into the action of the book). It is, however, a little dry, so I have Johannes Cabal the Necromancer, Brave Story, and Durarara volume 3 to break it up.

Derek wrote:

"Pietro_Mercurios wrote: "Didn't see any point in encouraging a peculiarly democratic piece of twisted populist propaganda."

Yeah. I don't even know (though can guess) which side of that conflict the referendum was encouraging, but you can't win either way.

The trick was not to vote. Unfortunately, enough yesses voted and far more noes, to bring the referendum well above the necessary 30%, to carry it as a vote for 'no' against an official accommodation with Ukraine (not for full entry into the EU). Apparently, weirdly good for both Putin's Russian ambitions and the Dutch Euro-sceptic right & left. What it all really means, only time will tell.

Almost half way through, Byzantium Endures now. A Mephistophelean figure has appeared. A certain, Prince Nikolai Feodorovitch Petroff, 'Kolya' to his friends (Russian for Nick). A tall aristocratic albino, dressed head to foot in black and carrying a silver handled black cane.

Every so often a diamond glint of the Multiverse shines through.

Some beer was drunk, now thunder clouds roll across the misty sunshine.

Pietro_Mercurios wrote: "Almost half way through, Byzantium Endures now. A Mephistophelean figure has appeared. A certain, Prince Nikolai Feodorovitch Petroff, 'Kolya' to his friends (Russian for Nick). A tall aristocratic..."

I am happy that you are enjoying Byzantium Endures, Pietro_Mercurios!

That is a good one! It is a very interesting book.

I am a bit ashamed to say that I have started reading "Dreamthief's Daughter" by our fearless leader and I did not like it all. I have quit 100 pages before the end. This is the first time I quite dislike a MM book I sadly realize... :-/

Jack Of Shadows wrote: "That's okay Daniel, it's nothing to be ashamed of, it happens. You can't like everything an author you enjoy reading has written, even if you've enjoyed their work in the past.

I liked "The Dreamt..."
Thanks man.
Jack, I really liked the Von Bek omnibus. I liked it a lot. With me is usually normal to start reading a MM book and get sucked by the story. When that does not happen.

Lemec wrote:

"I am happy that you are enjoying Byzantium Endures, Pietro_Mercurios!

That is a good one! It is a very interesting book. "

An interesting book for interesting times.

Hi all, how are you all doing? Just wondered if there was any news about Miscellany coming back? Thought it might have been back before now.

Out in the garden, couple of Amstel pils and read a chapter of, 'Byzantium Endures.' Pyat fires up his ultraviolet ray-weapon and Kiev falls to the Bolsheviks.

Meanwhile, our favourite old curmudgeon is back:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/co...

Only thing worth reading on the Spectator website, today.

Ooh! If you're in the US (or know how to pretend you are!), all of Max Gladstone's Craft series are currently on sale for $5 from all the usual suspects. I just picked up #3 and #4.

Finished 'Byzantium Endures,' last week. A few beers were drunk. No one puts a yarn together quite like Mike. This one is a tour de force.

Definitely one of the best books that I've ever read. Made me look out my old copy of Voline's 'The Unknown Revolution' (bought in the anarchist bookshop in Brixton, many many years ago). Going to have to read that properly some day.

A few days rest and I'm about ready to start into, 'The Laughter of Carthage.' Have a feeling that this one will have some disturbing contemporary resonances, too.

Ordered a copy of, 'Jerusalem Commands,' today, as well. May as well join up for the duration. ;>)

Recently finished "Leviathan Wakes" by James S.A. Corey. Enjoyable (and fairly believable) space opera. The recent Syfy TV show "The Expanse" is based on this series (the show is pretty good too).

Just started Moorcock's "The Whispering Swarm" and I'm really loving it so far! (I'm about 1/3rd of the way through it). I notice it has a fair amount of negative comments online, but I really think that's only because some people didn't know what to expect. It's certainly more of an autobiography than a fantasy adventure, which it seems it putting some people off.

I think anything of Moorcock's after about the early 80s is going to get a lot of hate from people who loved his early stuff. Some people think he changed, some would just say he grew ;-) I don't know The Whispering Swarm, but it sounds like he's treading the territory of much younger authors ( Gaiman and Miéville) here.

Joe!

I love The Whispering Swarm!!!

It goes by so fast! I wanna read the sequels when printed!

Michael Moorcock had some interesting stuff to say about the book. You might be able to see his older posts if multiverse.org still keeps some of the old forum up and running.



Spoilers***















I think Mike said the book was what it is like to be a writer.

Hello, Pietro_Mercurios!

How goes The Laughter of Carthage marathon?


Pyat Book Spoilers Comment-












Mike Moorcock describes scenes so astonishingly well that I easily feel the settings and emotions in my belly!!!

I must admit I have read a lot of the old stuff until 1989 works, my only recent attempt to read his newer works was Dreamthief Daughter which I did not like at all. I had Gloriana on my pile for years but the copy I had was very damaged by fungus which I am allergic to, but I recently got the ebook and plan to read soon. Gloriana seems to be a different type of book for based on what I read so far although being and old era book ( 1978 ).

I believe MM was just in the mood to write non genre specific type of literature that is the reason of any kind of changes in his style.

I just remembered how great were MMs posts and participation on Miscellany, the man is is not just a fantastic author but a very kind humble and wise man as well.

Just recently, I've been reading a lot of Yeats on folklore, myth and legend. Some ' Also, short stories about characters like, 'De Schaduw,' by Havank, 'Carnacki, the Ghost Finder, ' by 'William Hope Hodgson and 'Dr John Silence,' by Algernon Blackwood.

I've given up on 'Pyat,' for the moment. Rings enough bells that it tears me up a bit. Brilliant stuff, but the protagonist both attracts and repels. Self deluded and vain an amazingly unreliable narrator. The narrative becomes so distorted at times that slowly some more of the truth about the historical background and the character relating it, leaks through.

Oh yeah. And, I've started on some of Pratchett's 'Tiffany Aching' (a trainee Discworld witch), books as my kids leave home and head off into the future. Strangely reassuring.

I have been reading comics lately mostly but I am switching with Orson Scott Card's "Red Prophet".

Jimmy and the Crawler
by Raymond E. Feist.

It is so good!

An excellent novella. Fun.

It fits well with his other stories.

I am a fan of his worlds so it was very delightful for me to read another Krondor tale of adventure.

Pietro_Mercurios wrote: "Just recently, I've been reading a lot of Yeats on folklore, myth and legend. Some ' Also, short stories about characters like, 'De Schaduw,' by Havank, 'Carnacki, the Ghost Finder, ' by 'William H..."

Pietro, once you get going with "Jerusalem Commands", I'll bet you end up ripping straight through "Vengeance of Rome" right afterward, as that's what happened with me (I'm Guzzlecrank from the old Miscellany, by the way). "Jerusalem" has some slow patches near the beginning of the book, but it gets rolling about midway through.

As much as I admire all of the Cornelius stories and novels, I have to say that the Pyat series as a whole has become my favorite of all Mike's work. Among other things, it's useful in day-to-day life (unlike about 95% of all fiction): I'd guess that pretty much everybody falls into the angry trap of thinking (if not saying) Colonel-like nonsense every once in a while, and the experience of having read the quartet helps you slap some sense into yourself when that happens--e.g., you think, "You realize, of course, who you sound like right now?" It also very well illustrates more schizophrenic aspects of modern Western political culture than I could describe on a message board.

Anyhow, I hope you enjoy the journey!

I have read Silverberg's Dying Inside back in the 90s when it was translated to Portuguese. This is a book I love. I have recently enjoyed the ebook facilities and acquired some of his Majipoor books. I am on book 1, Lord Valentine, and loving this book a big deal.

Silverberg is hit and miss for me. I was loving them until I hit Son of Man, and I've hardly read him since (though I did re-read Majipoor).

I understand it. For example, I read "Nine Hundred Grandmothers" and thought this was an absolute classic and an incredible read. When I found out that Lafferty's books were re-issued digitally I have acquired many of them. Then I started reading one of his novels and I was put down.

I first must say a few things:

1- I am not a genius.
2- I will never consider myself a genius for enjoying a certain book.
3- I read Borges and found it meh ;-)
4- My previous experience with Gene Wolfe was not really a good one: Fifth Head of Cerberus I couldn't finish because the second novela is IMHO boring to hell, while Fifth Head of Cerberus the novella is good.
5- Dark science fantasy or whatever you call it, I love it..
6- Dying Sun, I love it.
7- Going to the dictionary and internet after new words or words I don't know, I am really into it.

I have started to read Book of the Sun part 1 because something was scratching my brain saying "Daniel, don't be so fooled by your first impression" . So why not to try Gene Wolfe's Book of the new sun?

What had made me avoid it before was to read several reviews I have encountered on Internet that presumed that to enjoy this story one should be a literate beast who mesmerizes herself/himself with allegories and literally tricks. It was specially dreadful to see this book used as an example superior kind of science fiction that is adult, mature, classy and blah blah blah. And how many people thought a lot about themselves for enjoying it.

As I might have let clear to me this is summarized with a single specific interjection "meh". I like books because of their stories. I will not read a book if the book does not capture me despite how brilliant or how many Nobel or Pulitzer prizes the author received.

I think I got to my point: book of the new sun 1, Shadow Of the Torturer, at least where I am now, is a terrific book. It tells a very very interesting one. I can see the literary tricks the author uses, like non reliable narrator, or histories inside histories, almost as if each idea exposed expanded into a new one. Now I can see it too a obvious telling of a quasi religious saga.

But man, this is a so awesome reading! It is what has got me.

I am afraid this is going to be my all time favorite book.

I have been reading mostly Gene Wolfe these days ( I have started Fritz Leiber "swords and deviltry" in parallel ).

Now I am reading Soldier Of The Mist, which has been a difficult book to go through, but I am honestly loving it.

Daniel wrote: "( I have started Fritz Leiber "swords and deviltry" in parallel )."

I love Lankhmar, but I'm currently in the middle of Leiber's The Wanderer, and the most charitable thing I can say of it is, Leiber writes great "sword and sorcery". I don't insist that SF stick to hard science, but he's spent the first third of this book laying a scientific background, and his physics is terrible!

Soldier of the Mist and its sequels are my favorite Wolfe books.

I have got the first three of the Lankhmar saga. The first pages of what I read are pretty good.

The crazy thing about Wolfe was that 3 years ago I started reading his Fifth Head Of Cerberus, three novels, and after the second one - first and title was pretty good - I told myself I would give up. Then two months ago I read Wolfe's BoTNS 1 and 2 and got hooked so I told myself why not try Cerberus again and this time I loved it.

Wolfe writes stimulating complex speculative fiction and the literary puzzles and abundant tricks have got me although I usually won't read an author just because of them. As Wolfe says he writes genre fiction because it is what he would like to read.

God, I even decided to give another try to Borges after knowing how much Wolfe enjoys his work.

Oddly some time ago I read R. A Lafferty's One Hundred Grandmothers and I loved it so I thought I would read him like I eat candies but after acquiring some of his books ( now available through Sci fi gateway ) I must say his works do not resonate me as much as I think it would, which is my candid way of saying I hate everything I tried to read from Lafferty after but given this experience with Gene Wolfe it is possible that I can change my mind in the future... ;-)

Running West by James Houston. Fact based historical fiction set in the early 1700s in British North America about an exiled Scottish clansman and a Dene woman who, together, basically set the stage for the success of the Hudson's Bay Company, which in turn has profound consequences for future Canada.

Thanidelthur, the Dene lady, has quite a story (more on Thandelthur).

Good lord, I got sucked back into the comic world after Cap went Hydra. This stuff is like soap operas, same people, same dilemmas. But I am enjoying it. The new Doctor Strange series's are pretty awesome. No talismans of power or much magic at all from the Sorcerer Supreme. He is like a vagabond shaman. Honestly though I think the writing in IDW comics is some of the best at the moment. The Rom vol.2 stuff is great and the Micronauts are still around.

Navigator wrote: "Good lord, I got sucked back into the comic world after Cap went Hydra. This stuff is like soap operas, same people, same dilemmas. But I am enjoying it. The new Doctor Strange series's are pretty ..."

The new Rom surprised me, too. It's been better than I expected. The overall plot is a bit close to Valiant's 2012-16 X-O Manowar series, but I'm pretty sure that that series borrowed a few things from the original Rom. It's like a hall of mirrors in here...

Also, Charles Soule's Daredevil has often been worth reading, at least in this fan's bronze-aged opinion.

The Last Secret of the Temple by Paul Sussman.

Described by The Independent as "The intelligent reader's answer to The Davinci Code" which is not only damning with faint praise but is a bloody great insult to the intelligent reader.

It plods along with very obvious plot points and coincidences and connections that even I can spot from five hundred yards. It comes as a surprise to the main character where a dead Jewish woman with numbers tattooed on her forearm and a bloke with a wartime pistol and a block of Nazi gold in his safe might have spent their respective wars.

I'll get to the end at some point and put it down with relief rather than satisfaction.

Jack Of Shadows wrote: "I'm currently on two books, which is something I don't normally do. The first is a partial re-read, Mike's "A Nomad Of The Time Streams". This is the White Wolf omnibus edition which contains three..."

That's a good edition, Jack Of Shadows!

I like the book's illustrations as well!

I have been reading ebooks mostly in the last 2 years. It has a few advantages

price
they save space
availability
and the dictionary comes embedded at the reader
( this last is a great tool for myself who is not a native English speaker whose most of his favorite books were never translated to Portuguese )

Still, I am buying books. I became a Gene Wolfe fanboy last year and have been reading many of his books, but mostly ebooks. I have recently bought the BotNS and BoLS real books and while reading book 2 of BoLS I decided to read it on actual book.

The difference is tremendous. Actual books are far more appealing, easy to dive in, fun to flip through the pages and all kinds of positive connotations.

Anyway, the reading experience of a real book is not matched by reading an ebook, not even at my Kobo.

Daniel wrote: "Anyway, the reading experience of a real book is not matched by reading an ebook, not even at my Kobo"

I have a totally different experience. imo, there's nothing I could get from a DTB (dead tree book) that I can't get from an e-book, except the smell of decay. And, perhaps, the actual book—90% of the books on my wishlist aren't available as e-books. It is unfortunate, though, that a huge number of e-books, even from traditional publishers, are terribly formatted.

Convenience is such a wonderful feature. Last night, I forgot my Kobo at work, so I downloaded the book I was reading to my tablet at home.

I like reading at my smartphone better than reading on my Kobo.

I use either Kobo reader ( for DRM ) or Google books ( non DRM books and books acquired from Google without DRM) when I use my smartphone.

But I agree in part, Jack Vance is poorly available in hard copies, so I need to rely on Digital, the fact his works are easily available makes a strong point in favor of e-books.

It will become the same thing IMO that happened to LPs and digital music, I will be forced to digital because of price and space but with an advantage I won't need any electronic device to read the hard copies I eventually keep.

Anyway, I am making a real cleaning of my books - as usual - I am planning to retain only my top 4 favorite authors and my comics.

Daniel wrote: "I like reading at my smartphone better than reading on my Kobo."

That's a horrible way to read. Far too small print, and terrible lighting, even with the best apps and phones. e-ink is much easier on the eyes.

But I don't have anything with DRM, so I can read it anywhere.

I like the idea of reading somewhere else than a book whereas using a Kobo reader is an attempt not quite well succeeded to mimic a book. So the former looks ok for me.

Well, if the e-book is well formatted, it's not at all an attempt to mimic a DTB: but in so many ways, it can be so much better.

Digital is not the same as a real thing ( book or an LP ) but I think we are going to need to get used to the digital formats in our daily life.
In regard to technical books I much prefer pdfs than real books, this was a real improvement although I keep with me some quick reference ones.