THE Group for Authors! discussion

Hi friends,

I'm interested in writing a blog on this topic as I've spoken to some authors who have never seen a royalty payment from their publisher.

A long time ago I had to threaten a publisher saying I'd make comments on social media before I got my royalties a year late.

I've been reading up a few articles on the subject, but if anyone has any experience, chat about it here. You may not want to mention your publisher's name (although I think its important to know which ones to avoid).

I won't use your name in my blog. I'm just after some personal stories.

Cheers

Kevin

I'm a self-published author so it's a bit different and Amazon have now improved their game in this respect. However, I do have some books in book shops on consignment and I find I have to keep tabs on those.

Rita wrote: "I'm a self-published author so it's a bit different and Amazon have now improved their game in this respect. However, I do have some books in book shops on consignment and I find I have to keep ta..."

Yes, I had two on consignment at a book store, and when my friend bought a copy from that store, I still had to chase up the payment.

I think that is why Amazon have a good deal for authors, and in the future, proper publishers will need to offer a marketing team, at least, to court authors from going elsewhere.

My novel was published in November with Soul Mate Publishing. I've had no problems receiving my royalty statement (I've only received 1 so far). SMP pays royalties quarterly and it is very clearly written in their contract about how royalties are paid out.

This has gone into my decision to self-publish. I have a friend who has published three books with a smaller publisher and the numbers he receives in his reports from the publisher don't add up to what he knows. He only knows a few specific bookstores have sold more than the report shows, but if you extrapolate that out, it could be a lot of missing sales.

Years ago, I worked for an insurance company that wanted employees to insure their homes with them. I would not do it because if I got in a disagreement on a claim I would be on the wrong side of my employer. I preferred to keep it separate. His multi-book deal feels much the same to me. If they aren't paying him for all his sales, how does he prove it? The contract says he can hire an auditor but the expense of that would outweigh what he believes he is not being paid. If I were going to enter into a contract like that, I would have a penalty clause (they probably wouldn't agree to it) that if I hired an independent auditor, they would reimburse the fee if they had not been paying me as they should and pay a penalty.

It seems there is some transparency lacking in this aspect of publishing. I'm sure most publishers are completely honest but with so many small, new ones popping up (and disappearing--something I've already seen with my tiny bit of experience) I was feeling funneled into trying to go with a bigger, established house which made self-pub more attractive for my non-fiction book. I'm still considering traditional for my fiction.

Being a newbie, it has been quite a learning experience with many preconceived notions overturned as I delved deeper into the minutia.

This is my first book, (published Nov 1/13) and what I don't like are the accounting procedures. My book is available on a number of sites (Amazon, B&K, etc). The book is not printed until an order has been placed. Lets say Amazon sells the book, Amazon sends an order to the publisher, the book is printed and shipped by the publisher to the buyer. What I have taken exception to and even wrote a letter of complaint to the CEO of Simon & Schuster (parent company) was the fact I did not know how many books I had sold in Nov/Dec until March of this year. I was informed the delays are standard for the industry. I found this to be totally unacceptable. My point is a company should be able to provide a monthly sales report even if the royalty checks are only mailed on a quarterly basis. The argument they had to wait on sales reports from the sites selling my book is not logical, when the books are ordered from Archway. The other problem I found was a lack of accountability. I have no way of confirming the sales figures provided. How easy it would be for a company to not report all the sales and thus not have to pay the royalty. Did not mean to make a tirade about this but this thread hit my hot button. It is something that I will consider when looking at publishing options on my next book.

I have a nonfiction publisher (none of my novels have made it to print yet) and the royalties come in regularly. Click-through arrangements for some of my online work (money based on ad click-throughs, etc.) have done nothing for me personally.

Anita, I think the reason they don't have figures available sooner is they wait for returns from bookstores--of the books that didn't sell--before they can do the math. Most publishers do the reports on a quarterly basis, but some do it twice a year.

Thanks for your contributions, everyone. But I'm interested in tales of publishers (without naming them) who haven't been up to date with royalties.

One person privately messaged me telling me about one such publisher.

I'm curious to know what steps people took to get paid (if they ever got paid).

Marcy wrote: "Anita, I think the reason they don't have figures available sooner is they wait for returns from bookstores--of the books that didn't sell--before they can do the math. Most publishers do the repor..."

You make an interesting point and confirms what I was told that this practice is typical for the industry. The only problem is my book is being sold as a DOD, I think I have it right, which means direct on demand. The bookstore does not order my book until a customer comes in and requests and pays to purchase a copy. The book is then ordered and shipped direct from the publisher to the customer. There are no returns as my book is not actually in the store. Which is another interesting point. I did not know this at the time I contracted with the publisher. As a matter of fact, the publisher tried to sell me a return service that would allow the bookstores to send back any unsold books and the publisher would buy them back. As I recall, it was around $800. If I had purchased the return plan, I would have paid for something that was not even applicable. I do not have a problem with only sending out a check on a quarterly basis. I do have a problem not knowing how many books were ordered and believe they should provide a monthly report. All of this has just highlighted that I did not have enough knowledge to even be able to ask the right questions when I published my book. Hopefully, I will do better the next time around.

Kevin, in response to your comment, in regards to payment, it would be very easy for a company to hide book sales and therefore to avoid paying the royalty fees. Most especially when the accounting data is months old. An author would never know as there does appear to be a lack of accountability in the process.

Kevin,

I have been following this thread and shaking my head. If you want info on small publishers that have gone belly up, or are holding back royalties, you need to check out the absolute write website, check the forums for writers beware and background checks. You'll see lots of small start ups that went belly up and took the authors money with them.

Some were out and out scams, while others were because of inexperience. In most cases, the old adage of writers beware was ignored...

Nick wrote: "Kevin,

I have been following this thread and shaking my head. If you want info on small publishers that have gone belly up, or are holding back royalties, you need to check out the absolute write..."

Thanks for that information Nick.

Also, according to U.S. law (I believe—lawyers, please correct me if I am wrong) publishers must pay out only once a year, by the end of March, and even then there may be thresholds. I have received a check for every one of the last 20 years from one university press but found out recently that a friend of mine with a highly regarded book from the same press has never passed the $50 threshold (this is a reputable press, not a scam).

Apple, to give another example, has terms that they will pay only when the author reaches $150. But they have paid me in March and December, even if I did not reach that level.

Amazon, as both Kindle and CreateSpace, now pays on any month you have a balance after an initial waiting period of 30 or 60 days. Barnes and Noble pays only after you reach a $10 minimum. In brief, check the paperwork and don't make assumptions. The publisher may be crooked but is not necessarily.

You can also use a service such as Novel Rank, which tracks approximately how many print and ebooks you've sold on Amazon. It will give you a ballpark figure that you can use when reviewing your royalties.

Elizabeth wrote: "You can also use a service such as Novel Rank, which tracks approximately how many print and ebooks you've sold on Amazon. It will give you a ballpark figure that you can use when reviewing your ro..."

Just tried it. It doesn't seem to work. I used the Amazon Author Program to find my sales. This site can't seem to get the details up.

Once you add you book to Novel Rank, it begins tracking sales from that point on. I added mine a week or so after my book came out, so I missed the majority of my initial sales. Once my next royalty check comes in, I'll be able to see just how accurate Novel rank is.

Elizabeth wrote: "Once you add you book to Novel Rank, it begins tracking sales from that point on. I added mine a week or so after my book came out, so I missed the majority of my initial sales. Once my next royalt..."

Oh I see. I was wondering why it had no data. But as it just follows Amazon, you can do the same thing on Amazon directly.

I can't because my publisher has access to that data, not me. Or maybe I just don't know what the heck I'm doing.

Elizabeth wrote: "I can't because my publisher has access to that data, not me. Or maybe I just don't know what the heck I'm doing."

Its free and it's here - https://authorcentral.amazon.com/ - and you can go back and see your sales from way back.

PS. Elizabeth, I'm not self published, but I can still see my book sales.

Author Central only shows paperback sales NOT e-book sales, although you can track your ranking.

Novelrank is more accurate the lower your rank/fewer sales you have, but the higher you climb the less accurate it becomes.

A.W. wrote: "Author Central only shows paperback sales NOT e-book sales, although you can track your ranking.

Novelrank is more accurate the lower your rank/fewer sales you have, but the higher you climb the l..."

Interesting. Is there any way to track ebooks?

Novelrank or MetricJunkie will track e-books sold based on movement in sales rank.

I have had a book that was released last year in July and have not received a check yet and don't have a idea how many have been sold. They are on line in book stores and amazon world wide. so I am a little confused.

W wrote: "I have had a book that was released last year in July and have not received a check yet and don't have a idea how many have been sold. They are on line in book stores and amazon world wide. so I am..."

If you published through Amazon, you should be able to get reports through your Author Central Page. You have to click on the KDP link in it.

... and it has been rearranged now so that it is easier to find your actual payments. Click on REPORTS then Payments made.

W wrote: "I have had a book that was released last year in July and have not received a check yet and don't have a idea how many have been sold. They are on line in book stores and amazon world wide. so I am..."

Are you self published or do you have an agent/publisher?

If you self published check your dashboard. Amazon reports are very easy to read.

If you have an agent, then they should be forwarding your royalties, I would enquire with them. Check your publishing contract, it will specify the provision of statements are reporting of sales data.

I note you don't have an author account, so can't help about possible sales numbers without knowing more about your book and ranking. Just because a book is available for sale through a retailer doesn't mean it is actually selling.

I'm with a small publisher and get royalties (for two books) more or less on time, but I do get slightly irritated trying to understand the statements. They always seem to pay me far less than I think I'm due.

The really depressing thing (I'm in Australia) is that my agent and publisher both assure me I'm comparatively successful for an Australian novelist...but I'm yet to make $20k from writing and have been getting royalties for 4 years.

Just goes to show how few people can actually make a living from this game. Won't stop me trying to crack the big one.

Adrian wrote: "They always seem to pay me far less than I think I'm due."

Then you have an issue - what data are you basing your sales estimates on, compared to theirs? Personally I would be asking some hard questions and your contract should allow for access to sales reports to conduct your own audit to verify the amount of royalties.

20k in four years is only 5k/year. Sorry to burst your bubble but they are blowing smoke up your @rse telling you that you are successful for an Australian author. I know many self published authors in Australia/New Zealand making way more than that. I can name half a dozen romance writers who are making 6 figures/year.

Maybe you need to take a hard look at your marketing and advertising approach? Your books have very few to no reviews which is a big warning sign and the ranking is very low. Did your publisher solicit reviews prior to publication? What work have they done post publication to promote your book? Writing is the easy part, marketing and selling is the hard bit.

The publishers have little or no budget for marketing - it's pretty much up to me to get off my arse and help sell. There was a publicist involved for the first couple of months (seriously well connected too)but she was unable to get me any newspaper reviews.

The vast majority of sales have been hard copy (and it is selling in the airports - very rare for a small publisher) so it doesn't show up as well (say) on amazon. The few reviews I've had are very good so fingers crossed it will still take off (I've also optioned the film rights to a major studio).

I trust my agent - she is reputed to be one of the very best.

I suspect I have two problems: one is (as you suggest AW) that the marketing plan leaves much to be desired. The other is that (I think) the distributor holds back a lot of money owed to the publisher against the possibility of returns.

I can find no links for your printed books, Adrian

The latest novel is Straight Jacket. It's on Goodreads of course but the publisher's site is http://www.highhorse.com.au/straight-...

Wasn't sure about the rules for self promotion.

At $9.99 for the Kindle version, I can imagine that copies aren't flying off the digital shelves. A lot of big name, bestselling novelists aren't selling their Kindle versions for that much.

I'd see if I could talk to the publisher into lowering the cost.

Foreign authors always tell me that the majority of their sales are in the U.S., and are of their Kindle editions.

Your print sales in AU are nice, but you might be missing out on a much larger market.

The sweet spot for a kindle book is around $3.99, even the Big 5 have come to realise this and have dropped their prices. At $10 your book is priced way above the market and you are missing a big chunk of potential sales.

I'm an NZ author, most of my sales are from Amazon US for e-books, even though my paperbacks are in B&N stores across America.

I did wonder if it was overpriced. Will take it up with the publisher tomorrow.

How many writers does that Publisher serve, Adrian? Are you in touch with any of them? Or are YOU the Publisher?

The publisher only does a small number of books and mostly non-fiction. The ebook though was created/published by the distributor. It was the distributor that set the price and I am now convinced it's too high.

Hi kevin you can include this in your blog, I had a book published by Red Lead Press USA in 2005, and heard nothing off them, until a friend in the UK saw my book in a book shop in 2011 it had been sold since 2005, I asked how come I had never been payed, their answer was they had sent me a cheque every six months, so I asked them to prove it with the cheque numbers and with what bank, they declined so I canceled my contract, I have no idea how many books had been sold as they would not tell me, I now have 12 books out and never had a cent of any of them, I had one published in the UK the same thing nothing, so now I am canceling all my books and putting it down to experience and giving up writing, I find unless you are famous and have loads of cash to splash no one wants to know you, even if you write crap

I'm not surprised you have never seen a cent. Red Lead Press are an imprint of Dorrance, a notorious scammer/vanity press. This is why it is so important to do your research *before* you sign a contract.

Tereence, why not try KDP self-publishing? Please don't give up writing.

I agree with Sophie, Terrence - I've been both traditionally-published and self-published. I've gotten paid both ways, but I am now making more money off my self-pubs than I do on my traditionally-published works. While it's not much, it's nice to get paid by Amazon rather than paying them for once!

Personally, I've had no problem receiving my royalties. They are routed through my publisher, Booklocker.
What I find completely ridiculous in this electronic age is that it takes two to four months for Giant companies like Amazon to forward the royalties.

Thanks Terrace for that story. And thanks K.A. for the 'self published authors' seem to make more money.

I'm looking forward to seeing how my sales go with my new publisher later this year. But I have been toying with the idea of trying a self-published novel in the future. I'm curious about what my royalties would be like.

If AW is correct about the levels of money being made in Oz and NZ by people self-publishing then I suppose I will look at it seriously for my next book. The main reason I've hung out for traditional publishers (although both of mine have been small with no marketing capacity to speak of) is that they at least had proper distribution networks - meaning my books would be on shelves in bookshops. I also assumed (erroneously) as it turned out that it would be straightforward getting reviews in the newspapers etc, and while I got a few reviews and interviews for the first one (2010) I've had virtually nothing for the recent book (which is MUCH better than the first IMHO). I have, at least, built up a bit of a fanbase so may look to mobilise that myself in future, although my game plan has been about getting a good enough rep to be picked up by a bigger publisher next time. Maybe that plan is now outdated by the new market?

Or you went with a bad publisher...

Adrian wrote: "If AW is correct about the levels of money being made in Oz and NZ by people self-publishing ..."

Yes there are self published authors making 6 figures a year, but it is their full time job. You can't throw a book up on Amazon and expect it to sell itself. You need to take social media, marketing and advertising seriously.

Your book is priced way above the market on Amazon, you are losing a huge potential revenue stream. No one will risk $10 on the e-book of an unknown author with few to nil reviews. At that price you also lose the ability to market on numerous e-book sites that would raise your visibility. From your comments it appears you realise your publisher is not marketing, but what effort are you putting in to sell your books?

It's a cost/benefit analysis. There is money to be made but you have to put the hard work in to lay the correct foundation to enable your book to succeed.

The question is how much effort do you want to commit to selling your books?

I work full time in a professional job so my limited time and brainspace is devoted pretty much to the creative side. I've only just discovered there were forums on Goodreads!!!

Clearly there is much more I can be doing. I have at least contacted the distributor to request the ebook price be dropped. It will be fascinating to see how much difference that makes.

Adrian wrote: "I work full time in a professional job so my limited time and brainspace is devoted pretty much to the creative side. I've only just discovered there were forums on Goodreads!!!

Clearly there is m..."

I'm new to marketing too. I just enrolled my first book (of 4 complete, 3 published) in Amazon's 'countdown deal'. This will run for a week.
The idea is that tomorrow Combat Wizard drops from $4.99 to $0.99 for a set time, then goes up in dollar increments until the 15th, where it resumes full price. Will this work? No idea. Depending on results, I'll try it with Wizard at Work. The third book is not part of 'Amazon Select', so the deal isn't available. I can't enroll there without removing the book from iBooks, Nook, and Kobo; those aren't selling yet, but perhaps they will.
The other thing to not do is panic. Put the book up, tell your friends, Facebook followers, blog followers, etc, and give them time to buy (at full price). Then wait a while before making a marketing effort involving price reduction; your aunt won't like paying full price and finding the book is free two days later!

I am an indie author from the Philippines and currently has 8 books published in my native language "Tagalog".

I started selling my books last month and so far I find google play/google books is the most effective online bookstore for me compare to Kindle or iBooks. Maybe just in my case or maybe because there are more google books app users in the Philippines rather than Apple iBook Users or Kindle App Users.

So far, Google Books is the best place for me to sell my books.

I just received my royalties today straight to my bank account ( this is for the month of April). I was so surprised actually because I didn't expect a sale really. In the first place, All I want is to see people reading my books.

I also love the fact that their minimum threshold for intl indie authors like me is only 1 dollar. So far so good. Wishing more sales for this month from Google Books Publisher Program.

Hello Goodreads-ers, in one word, no. I was too naïve, as I self-published my first book with Xlibris, of whom are now in the middle of a class action lawsuit in the U.S., under their bigger colleagues at Author Solutions. This is the last thing I needed in my writing career, which is moderate at best right now. I found out today that this case won't go to trial until next year, just great! Have a good day, bye for now. Marc Mullo

The ebook price of Straight Jacket has been reduced by 40%. Now to see what difference that makes...