Classics and the Western Canon discussion

The battle of Artemision is a partial victory at sea that counterbalances the defeat at Thermopylae, which was taking place around the same time. Until the Persians decide to send a detachment around Euboea to outflank the Greeks, they still outnumbered the Greeks, despite the storm off Magnesia that destroyed a large part of the fleet. Another storm wrecks the Persian detachment, leaving both sides roughly even. Herodotus says that this was "the god's doing." (Herodotus once again shows his belief that the gods, like lightning, tend to strike the most lofty target.)

Despite these evened odds, the Greeks must be bribed to stay and fight. The Euboeans bribe Themistocles, who in turn bribes Euribiades, the Spartan commander. (So much for the incorruptibility of Spartans.) Herodotus then tells an odd story about a Persian deserter who dives into the sea at Aphetai and resurfaces almost 9 miles later at Artemision. (Shades of Arion and the dolphin from Book 1?) The battle commences and lasts three days, after which both sides retreat with losses.

Xerxes convenes an assembly to display the field at Thermopylae, first taking care to bury the vast majority of the Persian corpses so his losses will not appear so high. Deserters from Arcadia arrive and inform Xerxes that the Hellenes are celebrating the Olympic festival. Xerxes is astonished when he learns that the Olympic victors receive only an olive branch. "Good grief, Mardonios, what kind of men did you lead us here to fight, who compete not for money but for excellence alone?"

Herodotus describes friction between the Phocians and Thessalians; the Persians destroy Phocis and move on to Delphi, where Apollo demonstrates that he can take care of himself. The Persians move on to Athens. The Athenians have evacuated to Salamis and cities across the Saronic gulf. The Persians devastate Athens and burn the temples, including the temple on the Acropolis where a few Athenians have staged a desperate attempt to fulfill the prophecy about "wooden walls," taking a more literal approach than Themistocles. Later some Athenian exiles sent by Xerxes to "sacrifice according to their tradition" find the temple burned to the ground, except for a newly sprouted olive tree sacred to Athena.

Meanwhile on Salamis, Themistocles insists that the Greeks must stick together and achieve a victory at sea, arguing for the strategic value of the strait of Salamis. The Spartans are reluctant until they are backed into a corner. The Athenians threaten to abandon Attica and leave for a colony on Sicily, which would leave the Peloponnese ripe for the picking. When the Spartans are won over by this threat, favorable omens appear: a dust cloud rising from Eleusis and a cry that sounds like "the Iakhos cry of the mysteries."

On the Persian side, Artemisia tries to dissuade Xerxes from attacking the Hellenes, saying that he has already achieved his objective with the destruction of Athens. Egotism gets the best of Xerxes though, since he thinks that the Persians and their slaves will dominate the Greeks under his personal supervision.

Prior to the battle, Themistocles sends a strange message to Xerxes. He appears to betray the Greeks, but it is a ruse to encourage the Persians to surround Salamis so the Peloponnesians, who are reluctant to fight, cannot escape and will be forced to join the Athenians in a sea battle. When the battle begins, the superior discipline and order of the Greeks allow them to prevail over the disorderly Persian force.

After the battle, Xerxes relays news of his misfortune via the angareion, a horse-posting system. The US Postal Service takes its motto from Herodotus's description of the reliability of this system at 8.98.

Both sides must decide what to do next. Xerxes takes counsel from Mardonios and Artemisia, and this time he follows her advice. He prepares to return to Asia and leaves Mardonios to prosecute the land war. The Greeks debate whether to pursue Xerxes to the Hellespont but decide against it.

Themistocles sends another strange message to Xerxes, this time falsely claiming that he is personally responsible for letting Xerxes go. Herodotus says he sent this message in order to "build credit" with the King. Themistocles then begins to punish and extort money from the Greek cities that "medized," starting with Andros. Themistocles claims that the Athenians come with "two great gods, Persuasion and Necessity." The Andrians in turn cite "two useless gods, Poverty and Helplessness." He is unable to take Andros, but he does manage to destroy Karystos, and after looting the city and dedicating the spoils at Delphi, he is lauded by the Greeks. Herodotus says, "There was no satisfying the greed of Themistocles," but he also says that "the fame of Themistocles resounded throughout all of Hellas, and he was reputed to be by far the wisest of Hellenes." What are we to make of this man?

After relating a few different versions of how Xerxes returns to Asia, Herodotus explains how Mardonios sent Alexandros of Macedon to Athens with an offer of alliance. In outlining Alexandros's lineage he tells the story of Perdikkas and his brothers, emigrants from Argos who work for the King of Macedon. The King becomes "unbalanced by some god" and orders the brothers to depart, pointing to a hole in the roof as the wages they should accept before leaving. Perdikkas draws the light cast on the floor into a fold of his garment and says, "We accept what you give us, sire."

Alexandros delivers Mardonios's offer to the Athenians, who respond by saying, "As long as the sun continues on the course it now travels, we shall never come to an agreement with Xerxes."

Thomas wrote: "Herodotus says, "There was no satisfying the greed of Themistocles," but he also says that "the fame of Themistocles resounded throughout all of Hellas, and he was reputed to be by far the wisest of Hellenes." What are we to make of this man?..."

Yes, Themistocles is definitely a complex character, very cunning in the way he uses underhand means to achieve his ends, courageous in the way he leads a divided Athens to victory but also callous in his treatment of the Greek peoples who clearly had little choice in siding with the Persians.

I struggled to keep track of the chronology of events (oracles, other battles, etc) in the run-up to the battle of Salamis (the "fog of war"?), but it seemed to me that Themistocles' key contribution was his wisdom in interpreting the prophecy of the "wooden walls" to mean ships, which would be the Greeks' last line of defence against the Persians. His ability to make his case persuasively, win the vote and then decree that Athens should be evacuated is a key moment in the book.

Thomas wrote: "...Xerxes convenes an assembly to display the field at Thermopylae, first taking care to bury the vast majority of the Persian corpses so his losses will not appear so high... "

My copy suggests that a "moral" in book 8 is: "people all too easily imagine they are in control when they are not." I think this is helpful when looking at Xerxes. Even though he does try to bury the corpses so the body count appears in his favor, people aren't fooled and Herodotus says this attempt was ridiculous. Also, the interpretation of the wall of wood (and any dream/oracle interpretation, really) demonstrates how much people prize the idea of being in control.

However, the story of Artemisia, shows that people are in control of their ability to plan. Cheers to the strength and craftiness of the woman warrior!

Elizabeth Vandiver notes that Themistocles fell into disfavor after the Persian Wars, and was in fact ostracized (which explains the ostrakon with his name on it in the Landmark edition.) So Herodotus may have been "back-reading," as Vandiver calls it, when he calls Themistocles greedy and includes the incidents that make him appear less than honest.

Ashley wrote: "My copy suggests that a "moral" in book 8 is: "people all too easily imagine they are in control when they are not." I think this is helpful when looking at Xerxes. "

A personality-driven account of history, like this one is, seems to be particularly prone to this kind of "moral." One of the interesting things about Xerxes is that he doesn't start out with this overweening confidence in himself. He only becomes this way after receiving signs and portents that urge him on. The Spartans are the same way -- even though they are the preeminent soldiers in Hellas they are reluctant to fight, and often what prevents them is a religious festival or the lack of favorable omens (or so they say). Perhaps these players understand that they are not in control -- what controls them is fate. What gives them courage, which perhaps grows into hubris, is their trust in the gods and their signs.

It will be interesting to see if we can agree on a "moral" to the work as a whole. It's such a wide-ranging book....

Ashley, I agree. Artemisia gave good advice, which Xerxes ignored. How could he lose a battle where he was present?

I am not impressed with Themistocles, who bullies and threatens the poor islanders to fill his own coffers.(111,112)

Rosemarie wrote: "I am not impressed with Themistocles, who bullies and threatens the poor islanders to fill his own coffers.(111,112)"

The portrait Herodotus paints of Themistocles is confusing, and it makes me wonder how objective and unbiased Herodotus really was. Themistocles proved himself to be unscrupulous after the war, so those who heard the Histories would expect to hear that he was also unscrupulous during the war. But was he really? Or did Herodotus portray him that way to conform to his readers' expectations?

That could well be the case. Alhough many historians try to be unbiased, there are a fair number who are not. Sometimes they are unaware of their biases, other times they are not.

I was surprised that there was a prominent woman warrior in this section. Was Xerxes proud of her or just more disgusted by his men when he is purported to say "my men have become women, and my women men." (8.88)? Certainly the Hellenes were enraged by her victories as they put a price on her head as it was "intolerable that a woman should make an expedition against Athens." (8.93)

And then Xerxes just can't seem to help himself from acting out...I was especially put off by the story of him "encouraging" Persians to leap off the ship to their deaths for his own safety and then later cutting off the head of the ship's pilot because he had caused the death of many of the Persians!! (8.118)

Yes, Xerxes certainly was a piece of work, wasn't he?

Xerxes as a character seems almost too outrageous to be true -- at times he reminds me of the stereotypical villain in genre fiction, or comic books, or professional wrestling for that matter.

It really makes me wonder how much Herodotus exaggerated the man for the sake of his narrative, and if he was doing so intentionally or he was simply reporting the tall tales he heard. If intentionally, what was his intention?

It's interesting how much respect Herodotus has for various women in power when Greek society did not hold women in much esteem at all. But maybe the fact that these women -- Candaules' wife, Tomyris, Artemisia -- were not Greek makes a difference.

Thomas wrote: "Xerxes as a character seems almost too outrageous to be true -- at times he reminds me of the stereotypical villain in genre fiction, or comic books, or professional wrestling for that matter. "

Thank goodness for that! I had almost lost interest in this thing until that Xerxes character showed up. I loved hating him!!