THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

June theme read on any book or books of your choice that cover a land battle or campaign of WW2.

On my to-read list for June is "The Story of D-Day" by Richard Holmes. :)

Brothers in Arms by Chris Goss



Offers a view of the Battle of Britain from the vantage point of 2 opposing fighter units - 609 (West Riding) Squadron of the Royal Air Force (RAF) and the First Staffel of the 53rd Fighter Wing of the Luftwaffe (i.e., 1/JG 53).

Let me know if this would this be considered a land battle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

If not I will go with this. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...

4ZZZ wrote: "Let me know if this would this be considered a land battle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

If not I will go with this. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/..."

First book certainly can be considered a land battle and the second book is also an excellent selection.

The book high on my list for the June theme read will be this title, however that could change :)

Aachen: The U.S. Army's Battle for Charlemagne's City in World War II by Robert W Baumer

I'll be reading
Cornered Tigers: The Defence of the Admin Box, Burma 1944
this month

The group will probably benefit more from me reading this than such popular backlog as Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy or a Normandy book:


Invasion Syria, 1941: Churchill and de Gaulle's Forgotten War

This time I type my reading notes into MS Word daily to build up a review.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "4ZZZ wrote: "Let me know if this would this be considered a land battle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

If not I will go with this. https://www.goodreads.c..."
Cheers Rick. I will go with the first book.

Jonny wrote: "I'll be reading
Cornered Tigers: The Defence of the Admin Box, Burma 1944
this month"

Jonny: That's on my TBR. Please post comments.

Jonny wrote: "I'll be reading
Cornered Tigers: The Defence of the Admin Box, Burma 1944
this month"

I am interested in hearing about this book too.

This will be the first theme-read discussion I will be participating in the group. I hope I can contribute, since I'm fairly new to WWII!

I'm thinking of reading Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945, since I'm not sure if the book I am finishing, it is both a naval and land campaign, Neptune: The Allied Invasion of Europe and the D-Day Landings, qualifies.

Please let me know.

Lizzy wrote: "This will be the first theme-read discussion I will be participating in the group. I hope I can contribute, since I'm fairly new to WWII!

I'm thinking of reading [book:Armageddon: The Battle for ..."

The land component of Operation Neptune was its primary focus and purpose. I think it qualifies as a land campaign.

Thanks, Al. You are right, and I will stay with Neptune then.

Dimitri wrote: "The group will probably benefit more from me reading this than such popular backlog as Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy or a Normandy book:

[bookcover:Invasion Syria, 1941: Churchill and de Gau..."

Ordering this book now. I am very interested in the Vichy forces.

4ZZZ wrote: "Let me know if this would this be considered a land battle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

If not I will go with this. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/..."

As soon as feet are on solid ground (even volcanic sand) and digging in I'd say it is a land battle.

Jonny wrote: "I'll be reading
Cornered Tigers: The Defence of the Admin Box, Burma 1944
this month"

One that I have and also wish to read so I'll be keen to hear you views on the book.

Dimitri wrote: "The group will probably benefit more from me reading this than such popular backlog as Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy or a Normandy book:

[bookcover:Invasion Syria, 1941: Churchill and de Gau..."

Damn, another book that I have and also want to read! I'll be keen to hear your thoughts as well Dimitri.

Geevee wrote: "4ZZZ wrote: "Let me know if this would this be considered a land battle. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

If not I will go with this. https://www.goodreads.c..."

Cheers. I have had that book around for too long and really need an "excuse" to get on with it.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "June theme read on any book or books of your choice that cover a land battle or campaign of WW2."

It is back to the Eastern Front for me. The book is The Russo-German War, 1941-45 by Albert Seaton . We shall see how it goes.

I can recommend Death Traps, The Survival of an American Armored Division by Belton Y Cooper. He was a maintenance officer for Combat Command B of 3d Armd Div from Normandy to the end of the war. He was living in the Birmingham AL area where I also was at the time I read this one. I was able to call him on the phone and talk to him about his book. Maintenance is not glamorous but it is critically important. His experiences are worth reading about.

For June I"ll be reading The Men Who Made the SAS: The History of the Long Range Desert Group

I'm going with this one:

The Americans at Normandy: The Summer of 1944--The American War from the Normandy Beaches to Falaise

McManus has written several excellent books on World War II and I don't expect this one to be any different.

Two more good books being read during the theme read!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Two more good books being read during the theme read!"

Life's too short to read bad books!

That's true!

Just started the Acknowledgments of https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2... The Battle For Iwo Jima by Derrick Wright.

As mentioned in the Acknowledgments I thought I would bring to the attention of you that are interested a book by John E Lane called "This here is 'G' Company": A chronicle of Company "G", Second battalion, Twenty-fifth Marines, Fourth Marine Division, FMF"

Nothing on Goodreads and looks very expensive elsewhere.

I am laughing to myself. I have just started the 1st page of the preface and has been giving an overview of the military situation of WW2 at the time and he quotes a figure of 135,000 dead in the bombing of Dresden. My radar is up an running immediately as the last group read I read Dresden by Fredrick Taylor. Taylor has dismissed this figure of far too high as have other sources he cited. This figure of 135,000 comes from Irving's The Destruction of Dresden that has been considered unreliable. No footnotes to this or other sources. I am a bit of stickler for footnotes.

Describes Shinto as a religion. Debatable.

Chapter 1 is called No Sparrows and No Swallows. I title based on a letter home from a Japanese soldier. The chapter is a description of the Island and discussion on the defences as built by the defending commander Lt-General Tadamichi Kuribayashi. Kuribayashi I have read about previously in the book Letters From Iwo Jima by Kumiko Kakehashi. He was a very urbane character and not particularly a supporter of the War Party in Japan as he had been a military attaché to the US and was convinced of Japans inability to wage war against a nation he knew to be an industrial giant in comparison. He was also a smart enough commander to understand the foolishness of the Banzai charges. Hence he prepared the island for a long war of attrition.

I came across this book in the library and hope I can read it as part of this month's theme read.

Defeat Into Victory

True to what one expects from a university library, this edition that I found was printed in 1957. Field Marshal Slim's signature is embossed on the hardcover. What a beautiful book.

Chin Joo wrote: "I came across this book in the library and hope I can read it as part of this month's theme read.

Defeat Into Victory

True to what one exp..."

Slim's book is a classic on leadership and operational art on the campaign for Burma. You picked a good one!

Chin Joo wrote: "I came across this book in the library and hope I can read it as part of this month's theme read.

Defeat Into Victory

True to what one exp..."

Chin Joo: I read Slim's book back in the eighties. I agree with Al's assessment.

And with the great man's signature too :)

I am going with With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa.

Wade wrote: "I am going with With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa."

One of the best!

I decided to pick up a classic: 'The Longest Day' 1994 edition by Cornelius Ryan.

Some good books being picked to be read by the group here, can't wait to hear what people think of their respective books.

"With The Old Breed" is a great book by a man who had been there and done that.

Wade wrote: "I am going with With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa."

I just read it...I should say I listened to it...twice!
It is a great read. Six Stars.

I am thinking about reading reading Battle: The Story of the Bulge

I am currently listening to this on an audibook. Listening to it rather than reading it really makes you feel like you are there. I am so damn confused!!!! I think I will probably read the book for the theme read. Listening to it without being able to see maps is impossible.

A question for the group. I have recently discovered audio books and I found I really like them. The medium was excellent for a few WWII personal memoirs such as Helmet for My Pillow and With the Old Breed but for a book about a campaign like the Battle of the Buldge I find it impossible to follow. I am very new to audiobooks. I find I can listen to them while walking in the airport, long and short car rides, while riding an excercise bike but I am not able to follow something involving many different units like the Battle of the Buldge.

I have to admit that I am a little bit put off by the writing style and lack of footnotes by Derrick Wright in his The Battle For Iwo Jima. I do tend to like my histories to be to the point and not use derisive terms that are meaningless to the narrative. "Hitler's last mad gamble" to describe the breakout in Ardennes. Mad? That is a matter of opinion. On page 24 the author describes a US media campaign against Lt General Holland M. Smith. Not a footnoted reference to be found. I have not read about this prior so I would like at the very least some form of reference. Calling the supply of Toilet Paper in the lead up to Operation Detachment the invasion of Iwo Jima, as "bizarre" is a long bow to be drawn in my opinion. "On 24 December, Cruiser Division 5 arrived of the coast of Iwo Jima to deliver its Christmas presents - 1,500 rounds of 8 in shells" the author writes. Christmas presents? This is the troop talk. I don't see the point of this style of writing in what is supposed to be a serious record of a major historical event.

Maybe I am alone here but I just like the authors of books I read to be to the point.

Chapter two is called Superfortress. It is about the need for Iwo Jima to be taken from the Japanese so as to allow the bombing of the mainland by Superfortress without hindrance by what was left of the air defences and the primitive radar the defenders had. It give a very short history of the plane itself and other areas such as mainland targets.

Chapter three, Operation Detachment, covers whom the leading commanders are, the planning for invasion and logistical movement. A debate on the use of gas and shelling of Iwo Jima prior to the invasion make interesting reading.

I hope your book picks up 4ZZZ, the next few chapters sound promising so fingers crossed the author sticks to the point and provides you with a blow-by-blow battle account.

I find books covering Iwo Jima and Okinawa fascinating reads and the subject matter is one you think it would be hard to make for boring reading.

They were dreadful battles for US and Japanese forces and are subjects worthy of great writing so future generations will never forget the sacrifices made on those places.

Sweetwilliam wrote: "A question for the group. I have recently discovered audio books and I found I really like them. ...I find I can listen to them while walking in the airport, long and short car rides, while riding an exercise bike but I am not able to follow something involving many different units like the Battle of the Bulge."

Not sure what your question is, but I agree with your statement. I like audiobooks for car travel, but draw the line at trying to follow any battle or campaign action that way. If it's an action I know very well, then there could be an exception, but I really need to see maps.

Sweetwilliam wrote: "Wade wrote: "I am going with With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa."

I just read it...I should say I listened to it...twice!
It is a great read. Six Stars.

I am thinking about reading readi..."

I am personally no audiobook listener. I am an ink on paper person but then a life in the printing industry does that haa haa. I attempted an audio book a few years back to listen to while out on my daily walk but found I kept wanting to get onto the computer to delve a bit further into the subject. I reverted back to music.

A few years ago there was a push to gather written or audio records of experiences from WWII vets by several universities and other volunteer groups because it became obvious that they were dying at 1000 a week or so. LSU was one of the places they were using volunteers. I have not seen where that has been compiled yet. The only thing I read was that there was an obvious tendency for the vets to report that if it went bang it was an 88 and if it was a tank it was a tiger. You may recall that in Band of Brothers when Lt Winters was ordered to take out the battery of 88s he did so in textbook manner then reported mission completion and, by they way, they were 75s.

Very interesting Howard. I too would like to know the outcome of those oral experiences.

Don't start me on the Band of Brothers book Howard. In my less than humble opinion an utter travesty. Now up to 4.4 rating on goodreads? What am I missing????? I thought the TV serious was very good for what that's worth.

I have a copy of Winters book and have not read it. Must look to dig it out of the boxes of 40 years of books I have stashed somewhere.

Thanks Lee and 4ZZZ.
I have discovered how to repeat the last 30 seconds of the audio book and I am constantly pressing the repeat icon. Audio books have their shortcomings. Since the coated paper industry had been good to me for such a long time I too like buying ink on paper books with collorful dust covers and plenty of pages with coated paper containing pictures and maps to supplement the subject matter that I am reading. I am finding that for some things there is no substitute.

Sorry about the thread jacking. Here is my theme read:

I believe this is about reserve units from the Midwest that was called up shortly after Pearl Harbor. They were called the Red Arrow Division. While the Marines were fighting on Guadalcanal the Red Arrow Division was engaged in New Guinea. They had 3x the casulties as the Marines. My uncle was in the Red Arrow Division but before his unit shipped off he was hospitalized with TB. He passed away before the war was over I believe. My dad used to always tell me about the funny letter that my uncle John wrote the war department when they wanted to know why he didn't report for duty. My dad used to end that story by saying that his unit was wiped out somewhere in the South Pacific. Now I will find out what happened to the Red Arrow division. I will report here.

4ZZZ wrote: "I have to admit that I am a little bit put off by the writing style and lack of footnotes by Derrick Wright in his The Battle For Iwo Jima. I do tend to like my histories to be to the point and not..."

I rarely read footnotes but I do like the fact that they are there. I like when the author makes it fun. Winston Groom and James Hornfischer do a great job. I also like when the author goes off on tangents like Evan S. Connell with Son of the Morning Star and Hampton Sides in Blood and Thunder. I think that John C. Waugh in the Class of 1846 did this as well.

Sweetwilliam wrote: "4ZZZ wrote: "I have to admit that I am a little bit put off by the writing style and lack of footnotes by Derrick Wright in his The Battle For Iwo Jima. I do tend to like my histories to be to the ..."

I tend to be demanding in the footnote area. If not there then a very good bibliography is an absolute must. I had never heard of Winston Groom but then I see he has written Forrest Gump. The things that pass me by!! He certainly has a very good list of non fiction on his CV. James Hornfischer I have never read but the very good members of this group have previously recommended him to me. And it looks like Evan S. Connell and John C. Waugh have passed me by as well. A retired life of reading is only a decade away lol.

Sweetwilliam wrote: "Thanks Lee and 4ZZZ.
I have discovered how to repeat the last 30 seconds of the audio book and I am constantly pressing the repeat icon. Audio books have their shortcomings. Since the coated paper ..."

You can google 32nd Infantry Division (Red Arrow)

I have to say that without a doubt there was one book whose footnotes were the most important to the book and the most amusing of any I have ever read anywhere or could even imagine.
There is an old book entitled Georgi Zhukov's Greatest Battles. For an interesting read about his actual battles it was worthless. I can't remember a single map and there were few pictures. The battles were hardly described or explained, just a lot of bombastic propaganda about how hard everyone worked to defeat the Nazi Invader. He occasionally praised someone but in the footnotes it was pointed out the political situation required it whether it was true or not. Sometimes a particular Russian general did poorly historically but Zhukov was uncritical, the footnotes pointing out that the particular person was now higher in the Soviet Power Structure than Zhukov. For parts of the book I started just reading the footnotes. It was unbelievable.