Bibliophile Babes Book Club discussion
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Hope Farm
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Kate
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rated it 5 stars
May 31, 2016 03:56PM
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she develops a special attachment to. Are there any
other positive aspects to a childhood like Silver’s, do
you think?
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Ishtar to leave him? What impact do you think this
had on Ishtar and Silver’s relationship?
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you think Ishtar withdrew from Silver? Do you think
it was a good thing that Silver found her mother’s
notebook? Does understanding necessarily make
forgiveness easier?
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Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #1 What would you rate Hope Farm by Peggy Frew out of 5?"I rated it 4 out of 5. I thought it was really original in terms of the story it told, in spite of having some fairly conventional elements. I enjoy reading books set in Australia which helped. I thought throughout I felt empathy for both central characters, but at times wanted a little more depth- hence the 4 stars.
Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #2 How long into the book did it take you to realise the interspersed chapters were spoken from the viewpoint of Ishtar? Did you feel as though those chapters helped you to feel..."I realised pretty much straight away, I felt this was a fairly predictable and conventional element of the book. At times it helped me have sympathy for Ishtar, but at other times I was frustrated by her poor decision making. It really showed her lack of forward-thinking.
Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #3 One of the few upsides to Silver’s time at Hope Farm is the freedom she has to roam in the bush, a placeshe develops a special attachment to. Are there any
other positive as..."
I think Silver had a really difficult childhood. Although she had some freedoms, like being able to connect with nature like she did, to go to new places, ultimately she was lacking a lot of things that she seemed to really need. Basically, I felt that while there were some positives, like experiencing new places, this was outweighed by the fact that she lacked really consistent relationships beyond that with her mother.
Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #4 Silver felt that Dan offered her and her mother a chance of a better life. Do you think it was unfair ofIshtar to leave him? What impact do you think this
had on Ishtar and ..."
I agree, that superficially Dan did offer Silver and Ishtar a possibility of a better life (read here better= more consistent). I think Ishtar left Dan because she felt like she was unable to sustain that kind of life. In a way, that is unfair to Silver, because throughout the novel she demonstrated really clearly that this was what she needs- she wanted consistency, a real relationship with people beyond her mother, a home, a school that she stays at etc. So to a certain extent it is unfair to her, because Ishtar seemed to be putting her own needs/desires ahead of Silver's here. To counter this, one might argue, that if Ishtar forced herself to follow this path, this might have resulted in other problems in their lives. In terms of whether it was fair to Dan to leave him, I think it is always fair to leave someone if you feel you are unable to commit to the same things they are in the relationship. If you can't make it work, and you personally aren't invested, which it was clear Ishtar wasn't, then it would have been unfair to stay.
Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #5 Ishtar and Silver have a very distant relationship by the time they arrive at Hope Farm. At what point doyou think Ishtar withdrew from Silver? Do you think
it was a good th..."
I think Ishtar withdrew from Silver quite early on in her life. While it is evident, from Ishtar's diary entries that she was quite enamoured with Silver as a baby- this seemed to be more connected to liking the feeling of being needed. Once Silver became more independent, Ishtar seemed to withdraw from that connection. I think it was helpful to Silver to a certain extent that she found the notebook- it did seem to give her a better understanding of the conflicts her mother was facing- whether she felt they were ultimately valid or not. I think it gave her a better understanding of Ishtar's reasons for behaving the way she did. Forgiveness, I think is a complicated process, no matter what the circumstances are. However, having understanding of or empathy for a person's situation does help you to look outside yourself and your perspective- which I guess is a step towards forgiveness.
Kate wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION #6 If you enjoyed this book, can you recommend any books we may also enjoy that might be similar?"I look forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts on this, I really enjoyed the book and would like to read similar.
I would recommend to everyone, Jasper Jones by Craig Silvey. This is another Australian novel, set in the 1960s in WA. Similarly, it deals with young adults facing adult situations, and the dysfunction of the adults in their lives.
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I immediately though the diary entries were Ishtar, but I either misread a description or simply assumed Ishtar and Silver were Indian, so when a diary entry described her mothers white hands I was completely lost.
I only felt sympathy for her through these entries, as it was hard not to empathise with Silver. I felt Ishtar was somewhat a victim of her upbringing, which made me sympathetic and simultaneously annoyed that she'd jeopardise Silvers upbringing. She certainly had no forward planning.
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I rated it 4 out of 5. I thought it was really original in terms of the story it told, in spite of having ..."
I can understand wanting more depth. At times I definitely wanted to hear more from Ishtar because I was frustrated at her behaviour towards Silver. Perhaps the author left this up to the reader to interpret? I'm not sure. But yes, really enjoyed reading about Australia in the 80s from a different/original perspective!
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she develops a special attachment to. Are there any
othe..."
Definitely! And she was put in a position where she was forced to act as an adult when she wasn't one. I thought Peggy Frew dealt with that really well and treated the next years in her life with realistic expectations. I don't blame her for being angry and distant from Ishtar after everything that happened!
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Yes, it's difficult not to be critical of Ishtar's character but she was a product of her environment, it seemed to me like her family were intent on not educating her and then she ended up unaware and ignorant of how she affected the people around her, so not surprising really. I quite enjoyed getting to Ishtar's chapters (although the poor spelling and grammar did throw me for a little bit!) because her upbringing and experiences in different communes & groups was something I hadn't ever read about before. I thought her chapters spoke a lot about how women (and their bodies) were looked at, treated and valued in 1980s Australia, especially around the idea of birth control and the right to control your own body.
I really enjoyed this book, I thought it gave a great insight into alternative living in the 80s and I would give it a 5/5. The interspersed chapters from Ishtar's perspective definitely helped to create empathy towards Ishtar and gave some complexity to the characters and their relationships.
I don't think it was that her family didn't educate her, they were a product of the thinking at the time, particularly around illegitimate children, and their sending Ishtar away was really the catalyst for all of her later issues around belonging and being loved. And unfortunately Ishtar's issues created actions that pushed the same issues onto Silver, if that makes sense.
All Silver seemed to want was that sense of family, love and stability, and she probably saw Dan as being able to provide that, but Ishtar was never going to be able to provide that for Silver, as she had never really known stability herself. It was clear by the end that Ishtar would never recover from being sent away by her family to have Silver, and I wonder if Silver was that constant reminder of how her life could have been different.
While it's easier for the reader to see both sides of the story, Silver had much to resent her mother for and I think the journey of forgiveness for her would have been a long and complex. She was exposed to the complexity of adult life at a young age due to the free-thinking, free-loving commune life and lost that innocence of childhood. When she moved in with her Aunty, she finally got the stability and opportunities that "conventional" living can afford, that seemed to be what she always wanted.
It was a sad read but I also think it explored the complexity of family relationships and romantic relationships in quite a real way that many would be able to connect with on some level (perhaps not to the book's extreme), which is why I really enjoyed it.
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The interspersed chapters from Ishtar's perspective definitely helped t..."
Very well said! I think you're right. Ishtar certainly was a product of her environment and the issues she had (or perhaps inherited) seemed to be inbuilt into her personality. I agree, the whole book was an interesting look at a specific point in Australia's history. Have you read House of Sticks by Peggy Frew? I read that last year and enjoyed it, not quite as much as Hope Farm, but it also deals with family relationships and their complexities so you may enjoy it!
Kate wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I really enjoyed this book, I thought it gave a great insight into alternative living in the 80s and I would give it a 5/5. The interspersed chapters from Ishtar's perspective defin..."
I totally agree with you both. I think that was one of the most interesting things about the book for me, getting a real understanding of what that environment was like. I think that Frew did a good job of conveying how damaging that attitude to women and their bodies can be, while also showing how entrenched it was at this time.
