Dystopia Land discussion

I've been wondering what is your opinion as to the different reasons why Dystopian novels are so popular? Or what attract you to this type of literature?

Even those of us that shy away from what is happening in the world will eventually read a book about a bleak and/or oppressed future. Of course by immersing ourselves in the story we can emotionally experience the struggle and gain resolution to the problem as the story comes to an end. Something that is beyond our control in the real world as we have very little control over world events.

Think you have captured the main reasons. Interesting discussion which has been mirrored in the discussions about the 59th anniversary of the original Star Trek TV series and its generally optimistic viewpoint despite the turbulent times it was written in.

I think one day, game theory can mathematically establish that utopia, under most conditions, is not an equilibrium. The root cause of all this exists in the age-old debate between individualism and collectivism.

The more a society is individualistic, the more diverse the opinions will be and that will always create conflict in the society. When the sides are unbalanced, these conflicts can devolve into oppression, which sets the chain for a revolution and the more aggressive this conflict becomes, that signals the end of utopia. Many authors have recognized that perfect utopia can exist in a collectivist environment, at least two such examples are 1] Brave New World and 2] Society of Gaia from Foundation Series.

In Brave New World, a utopian society was achieved but at a harsh cost of strict classist structure created through brain washing and removal of all artifacts that may promote critical thinking. In Gaia society, all individuals were interlinked in a network where feelings were shared amongst all of them. These people had strong empathy but that came at the cost of personal privacy.

At least, the more we think about utopia, intuitively it seems that it can only be achieved at great personal cost (the promised land of communism requires infinite resources which simply does not exist). I don't think there will ever come a position where we will willingly accept such a cost to create a utopia. Our current world is definitely dystopian. As much as I am privileged to have a computer and be able to write this post now on the goodreads website, I am also starkly aware of the poverty in my country where families barely manage one square meal a day for their kids.

A good dystopian novel often takes inspiration from the current society and analyzes it at an extreme. The author puts tremendous effort in expressing his thoughts and processes through the fictional story and the fictional lead character. When I read such stories, I am able to relate to character more closely and through the various events feel the effects of the dystopian world he is in. I am able to understand what the author thinks about many situations through the story and if I agree with his viewpoints then it allows me to reflect on our current world and understand the pitfalls that we need to avoid becoming a degenerate society. If more people actually did that, we would stop talking about building walls and start talking about building bridges.

I think it's because most people want a utopian societal system. But one issue was raised that a utopian society is attainable, I don't agree, I think it is a dream that people have providing we follow by their individual regime and let's be honest we're never all going to agree on one set of principles, everyone is unique and were built to challenge what we don't agree with. Therefore we're all going to have individual thoughts on how a society should live, creating disharmony, a catch-22 situation if you like. Ergo always flipping a utopia into a dystopian society.
My viewpoint on why we like to read dystopian novels is they are an unattainable fantasy which is tantalising to us.

I think that people in general are into knowing how the world can be in a different way, specially if it seems to be "perfect".

Well, this is a very interesting question. I was curious why I love dystopian books, why are they very interesting. Then I found the answer in one diploma paper.
In every successful and influential YA dystopian novel, readers can count on
encountering one or more of these major commonalities: (1) a vivid and well-described setting;
(2) individuals of a group in charge with absolute power; (3) a strong protagonist who has been
shaped by his or her current situation; and (4) a dismal conclusion that leaves the reader feeling
slightly uneasy (Spisak 56). (1) The vivid setting of the dystopian begins with the first word of
the novel. Because the reader is not currently living in the world that is being described, it is
imperative for the author to paint the picture of the setting using specific dialogue that reflects
the story’s culture (56). (2) Whether it is the government, a central police force, or overbearing
rules imposed on the society, the oppressive force—or antagonist, which can be the society
itself—is so strong that most people living in the given story have lost the ability to think for
themselves (Adams). ......
Teenagers reading these types of dystopian stories learn that there is
a problem with the current trend of harming the world in which they live, yet they still see that
there are ways in which they can continue to survive, creating a sense of hope in the worst
scenarios (3).

For me, there are several reasons why I love dystopian novels.

First, they are a cristalisation of our fears in the present. Their settings change through out the years in which they are written. The Iron Weel: fear of poverness. We: the fear of losing individuality through socalism. The Day of the Opritchik: The Fear that Russia drifts into National-Conservatism. If you want to know what people in general feared through out the centuries.

Second, I love Satire. And what a lot of people miss is that dystopian novels are one of the best forms to produce social satire. What a lot of people don't know, is that Brave New World was written after Huxley's first travel to the U.S. In Brave New World, a lot of american society is portrayed: the presence of pharmaindustry in daily life (by selling drugs that people don't need) for example. The same can be found in 1984: the name of the novel IS the satire of the year prior of it's writing (1948) and thus portraying not a society in the future but that of the present 1948. The war is over, but has been exported to africa. There are alliances that change every day, an allusion to the Soviet friendly american propaganda through out the second world war to legetimize the Allied operations with Stalin. I could talk over 1984 hours and hours but I will stop for now.

Third and last, people are fed up with all those happy endings in films. Everyboy knows that life is hard and a lot of crappy stuff happens between birth and death. Distopian novels are a good method to overcome this pressure that everything should be perfect.

I hope I am clear with my position, my english writing is a bit rusty.

I enjoy the classic dystopian novels by Orwell and Bradbury as well as some of the better-done contemporary stuff like Ship Breaker. Dystopian stories are undeniably appealing for the reasons others have mentioned here.

But I confess I'm getting tired of the glut of current dystopian novels, especially in the YA genre. It seems to me that writers are just milking a trend, trying to outdo each other with their bleak visions, and being more sensational than thoughtful. A future in which children are forced to fight each other to death in a reality TV game show? That kind of story just isn't believable or compelling in my opinion.

Of course, most people clearly disagree with me. :)

I read with interest this thread. I have read all the classic dystopias: We, 1984, Fahrenheit 451 and some of the newer ones, Never Let Me Go, Handmaid's Tale and Oryx and Crake. I can't get enough of them really and find it hard to find any new (good) ones. As an Indie author I have written one "The Inhibited" about a future world after a disastrous policy to legalize all drugs. The most challenging thing is to imagine a world that doesn't exist and create the suitable tone in one's writing. I personally think this is much harder than drawing off everyday interactions between people that have spurned the "girl" type books we have seen lately. Dystopias in my view can be highly original where as most other things e.g. psychopathic partners - how many times have we seen that? Happy to read any dystopias out there and offer mine for free best jay

I believe it is because in most dystopian novels the story is more or a less a "one person trying to buck the system" or effectively "one person against the entire established norm".

We all want to think, "would I be that person to go against the established norm?" or "would I be strong enough to be that character?".

Hmm...

I guess I love dystopias and post apocalyptica because I like to speculate on just how wrong things can go, and when you got a competent(not necessarily perfect, but at least competent) writer taking the idea very seriously, it makes for a great escape, and makes you appreciate what you have a little bit more.

I also fucking love the atmosphere for dystopias and post apocalyptic settings. Especially post apocalyptic! Dear god do I love the atmosphere of post apocalyptic environments.

I also like the idea of a story where everyone is pretty much fucked no matter what. It's why I cherish this anime called Galaxy Express 999. In it the whole universe is pretty much fucked, but the main character gives one person on a planet(and often their family) just ONE happy day, before they continue their inescapably miserable lives.

On a side note, when my mom still lived with me, she and my brother would rent a lot of post apocalyptic and dystopian movies, and they wouldn't tell me, Man that pissed me off.

MorteTorment(Unofficial World's Fastest Reader) wrote: "Hmm...

I guess I love dystopias and post apocalyptica because I like to speculate on just how wrong things can go, and when you got a competent(not necessarily perfect, but at least competent) wri..."

I like your answer. Dystopian narratives are a great topic. And our future, also.

I love the classics but am also tired of the YA trend. If its not that its zombies, aliens or secret conspiracies. I was so fed up I too wrote my own. I appreciate I am crossing sub-genres into catastrophe and post apocalyptic sci-fi.

Do we confine our dystopia or utopia to political or class systems. Is it a single city, country or world

In truth I like a good story and I have no need of happy endings. Hope is nice however slim the chance and not as an excuse for the sequel.

There's a huge truth in that...reality has become stranger than fiction...

P K Dick wrote about martian colons living in underground domes sharing music files with neighbors and friends living in their respective domes.This is exactly how I feel trying for the third time to post my contribution here.
It was the memory of Brazil, a Terry Gilliams movie ,1985.The dystopic.
And something more.May be some one can help me to find the name of a novel about people living on a train and obliged to set the rails ahead every day to get going I dont remember where.Any way they had no chart of the territory.
I will reward the person giving me the title and author of that book.

The book:
Inverted world
Christopher Priest
was in the thematic Sci Fi list on Wikipedia
a city on rails.
Was not lost and I have it again

For me, I think it shows the world took a wrong turn somehow and it explores that wrong turn. The best of the genre is uncomfortably close to reality and that provides the dread. Some of it is subtle and the mundane reaction is all the more scary. Dystopia has a plausibility factor that is enticing.

Good NY Times article today:

A Utopia for a Dystopian Age

Michele wrote: "Good NY Times article today:

A Utopia for a Dystopian Age"

To be modern is to be oriented toward the future. It is to be open to change even radical change, when called for.

A bit more real-world based but an interesting reading. I was surprised at the actual meaning of the word utopia. Would certainly recommend people to have a look at the article. I recently saw someone on the tube reading Utopia for Realists: And How We Can Get There, which spiked my interest since I believe financial utopia is possible.

Ellie [The Empress] wrote: "...which spiked my interest since I believe financial utopia is possible."

Does it involve a guaranteed minimum income? Or overthrowing all the rich people and seizing the means of production? ;)

Michele wrote: "Good NY Times article today:

A Utopia for a Dystopian Age"

Good article

Michele wrote: "Ellie [The Empress] wrote: "...which spiked my interest since I believe financial utopia is possible."

Does it involve a guaranteed minimum income? Or overthrowing all the rich people and seizing ..."

Yes, maybe, and no. And yes to the next two statements you were going to make, but decided discretion was the better part of valor when posting at 1am.

On subject, I read dystopian novels because I can't help myself.

Jay wrote: "...yes to the next two statements you were going to make, but decided discretion was the better part of valor when posting at 1am. "

lol

Arun wrote: "I think one day, game theory can mathematically establish that utopia, under most conditions, is not an equilibrium. The root cause of all this exists in the age-old debate between individualism an..."
What about looking at it the other way round? Examining some of the worst aspects of the dystopia that surrounds us, not in a novel but in the real world, and looking for the utopia within? The Damned Balkans - a refugee road trip: The real utopia is where the strength of the human spirit allows communities to carry on and thrive, despite everything.

Jovo wrote: "Arun wrote: "I think one day, game theory can mathematically establish that utopia, under most conditions, is not an equilibrium. The root cause of all this exists in the age-old debate between ind..."

You are separating the bad in this world from the people who live in them, as if bad things happen to people and people are not responsible for the bad things that happen. We have to recognize the fact that much of the bad in the world comes from people because of fear, lust, greed etc. I have always found arguments like "guns/wars kill people" bull shit, because its not guns/wars that killed people, its always people that killed people. So, you can never really have a sub-community which is utopian, because we are always going to be victims of our seven sins.

But I understand what you are saying. You are asking for people to look at the positives within the dystopian world and that is pretty much what the world in general and even dystopian authors have done - the protagonist is almost always the moral compass of the story and we are able to navigate the world drawn by the author because the protagonist is relatable in a more positive sense. In a way, we can only survive in this dystopian world because we still believe that there is still good around us. Otherwise, our basic instinct is to kill everything that scares us, pretty much how our ancestors homo-sapiens got rid of all the other hominid species on this planet.

For me it's also a way to reflect on the past and trying to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes we've made as humans in the past. Many things in dystopian novels set in the future are actually things that have happened before. So it makes us question our path because we don't want to end up in a dark place that we've been before and thought we'd never see again .

I think Dystopian Literature is my way of communicating to the generations to come. Some of it is sensationalized, and that's too bad, like one too many vampire love stories. The real issue is failure of a species to survive. This earth has seen lots of extinctions. We're reflecting on realism, but we are doing it fast forward.

I like the developments of society models and the humans evolving in different directions. Because I am an avid science fiction reader the scientifical background, search for a cure, technology backlash,...play an important role too.

Mykayla wrote: "I read mostly only dystopian/futuristic/postapocalyptic! I love the Razorland Trilogy, the Champion Trilogy, and the Young Elites series. I read them, because, oddly enough, they help me escape. I ..."

Mykayla wrote: "I read mostly only dystopian/futuristic/postapocalyptic! I love the Razorland Trilogy, the Champion Trilogy, and the Young Elites series. I read them, because, oddly enough, they help me escape. I ..."

Dele wrote: "For me it's also a way to reflect on the past and trying to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes we've made as humans in the past. Many things in dystopian novels set in the future are actua..."

EXACTLY!

I think it is a creative and safe way to critically analyze our own way of life.

I say that that its because we're a society that thrives on exaggeration and hyperbole in order to make a point. After all, its better for us as a species to assume the rustling in the bushes is a lion, or that all snakes are poisonous. Dystopia works in much the same way, but instead works upon our emotions and psychological traits. We want to see how every pathology of the human mind can go wrong, and Dystopia gives us a way to do it.

I don't think anyone actually believes that the modern age of pleasures and vices is going to lead to Brave New World, but it does allow us to strip away the noise of our current situations and examine more closely what we are doing to ourselves. It perhaps as well serves as a useful tool to stop encroachment. If we can imagine a world in which proposed policy or societal change is taken to its logical conclusion, we can have an excuse to stop it in the current day.

Most dystopia, however, doesn't really serve as a warning, and more serves as an entertaining background (such as the Hunger Games). When society itself is a threat, heroes have something they most constantly defend against, constant contend with. This is an excellent device for moving a narrative forward, as well as a foundation for more concrete worldbuilding.

Whoa, Alec! Well said! And here I was just going to say that it's fun to take a break from reality and that sometimes the dystopian scenario we're reading is less disturbing than what's really going on. Your explanation is rock star!

Why WRITE about the apocalypse? This an honest question. Honestly. Because this isn't my usual genre to READ. I can list most of the post-apocalyptic books I've read on one hand. The Road. The Stand. Side note: starting to understand why I named my books the way I did.

Yes, I grew up talking about it. War or plague or even zombies. Where would I go? What would I do?

But why am I... Why are WE... So enchanted with the idea of the world ending?

How often have we, as a society, lamented our use of our phones? Our tablets? Our computers?

How often have we all, as a whole, said we'd be better off without them?

We say it, but maybe we don't believe it. Or, the advantages technology gives us barely outweigh our misgivings. For we are connected, right? We have access to so much knowledge, how can we find fault in collective intelligence?

So we yearn for someone to take it all away even as we abuse it. Like a drug. "I could totally be fine without my phone for a whole week."

LIES.

Have you ever been in a room filled with the people you love, family or friends or someone perhaps closer... And still checked your phone? You are with your chosen ones. You are WHERE you want to be. So why check for something else?

We can't help ourselves. We are hooked.

So how could there not be a part of our psyche, our soul, even our minds, that yearns to be ripped away by force. Put into a post-apocalyptic rehab. To be kidnapped and taken to a time and place where EVERY interaction is in the moment. With no prospect of a distraction, or a little dopamine dump, or any of the other things we get with our technology.

Really, it's our body trying to be healthy. We daydream of the end of the world to expunge the toxins of living so small. When you can't rip yourself away from a little screen to look at the person who is addressing you, then there is an issue. And our bodies are complex! They are smart! Just as they have antibodies to combat diseases, so too they form defenses against that which is a threat to our mind.

So perhaps daydreaming of the end of the world is just the desperate plea of a body and soul on its last legs. I would like to think I'm listening, now.

I enjoy Dystopia/Apocalyptic fiction as it takes us out of our comfort zone, I like to read how characters react & move forward in such times where no one can see the outcome, however, YA/vampire dystopia is not for me...much prefer Larry Nivens' "Lucifers' Hammer" so if anyone knows any others in this vein pls let me know :)

I've had a break from Dystopian but I always come back to it. I think looking for clever survival techniques is part of it.

Alec wrote: "I say that that its because we're a society that thrives on exaggeration and hyperbole in order to make a point. After all, its better for us as a species to assume the rustling in the bushes is a ..."

Alec, nice summary.

YA Dystopia Book Survey

As a YA author, readers' opinions matter to me. As much as I write the stories I want to read, I also want to ensure they are stories that you, the reader, wants to read too.

I'm a published author with urban fantasy and supernatural thriller YA series, but am currently writing a dystopian YA novel, As I've never tackled this genre before, I want to ask readers, like yourself, a few questions about the genre and what you like to read.

I am not seeking any personal data, just your opinions, so if you have a spare few minutes, please click here and let me know your thoughts:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FA...

Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it.

Nicky Peacock

While I'm an adult, I feel that dystopian literature appeals to teenagers, in particular, because it mirrors their developmental shift from naivete to reality, and explores how to navigate the world of adults while maintaining their individuality. That sense of "I'm the only one who realizes this situation" and "I'm in this alone" is a common feeling, along with their need to assert their individuality in a world full of unfair rules.

For me, it's that never-ending wheel of constant change over which there is no control, no rule; even the strongest empires and civilisations fall to be replaced, the cycle repeated; perhaps to a higher level, but still to fall. Nature succumbs to industry and then industry to nature.

What once was will be, and all that...

It's such fertile ground for storytelling; exploring the growth or demise of self, Gods, worlds or the exploration of pretty much anything your mind might fancy.

J.D. wrote: "So how could there not be a part of our psyche, our soul, even our minds, that yearns to be ripped away by force. Put into a post-apocalyptic rehab. To be kidnapped and taken to a time and place where EVERY interaction is in the moment. With no prospect of a distraction, or a little dopamine dump, or any of the other things we get with our technology...It's our body trying to be healthy. We daydream of the end of the world to expunge the toxins of living so small..."

J.D., wow. Powerfully said and very thought-provoking.

J.D. over on Literary Darkness we're reading a very cool post-apoc book -- you might enjoy the discussion :)

To engage with, hopefully or hopelessly, with the scary feelings that the world we enjoy may end soon and that this development is, alternatively, 1) our fault, 2) completely beyond our control, or 3) both.

It's a great question. I often find myself wondering why people put themselves through the anxiety of reading horror novels or watching horror movies. Maybe some of the same principles apply. Possibly we enjoy the near misses of fascism and the social unease that comes with dystopian literature much in the same way we love the near-misses of horror; we get to observe, from a distance, our primordial desire for escape from danger and death while watching others fall victim to them. Being on top of the food chain has made us passive in ways that our biology disagrees with. An old theory, I think, but a good one.

I also think we like to see triumph. Most of use have no real power that can influence big events, or often even to escape our own faiths that we are born into. We all struggle in our own way. Reading books and watching movies with Dystopic themes can often give us the sense that a better outcome is possible. Even if said books/movies have an unclear ending we can imagine a brighter future. In short what Steven above has said.
And of course there is the element of escapism.

I think Empress has called it. The majority of these stories end with the protagonist somehow surviving it all. It will be interesting to see how George R.R. Martin ends his series. Fantasy I know, but Westeros is looking pretty Dystopian in many ways.

For me, I enjoy the Dystopian/post apocalyptic type book because I think many of these themes can become a reality. I find these types of books are better than the standard horror stories which tend to be unrealistic. Dystopian themes can be more horrifying.

I believe in most cases there is a more egoistic reason: the pleasure of knowing the hero is going through Hell and back, ending up miserably, while we sit in our sofa thinking "how nice it's him/her and not me".
Call it Schadenfreude if you will, but I am certain it is an important component of our enjoyment of dystopian novels, after all I have been told by the best possible source: myself..

I think we are just curious to know about the future and escape today's world. Who doesn't like a trip to future?!

Does anyone have any really good romance dystopian novels to read

I loved Elite by Nicola Claire. Fast-paced dystopian/romance saga.