Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

This is the thread for posting thoughts about Books 3 and 4.

I finished books 3 and 4 last night and just started on 5. I didn't realize that Quivira was Spanish in origin. There is a street in Overland Park, Kansas named after it. I just assumed it was of Native American origin because a lot of places here are named after Native American cultures.

That cave where Jacinto and Father Latour spent the night in the snowstorm really distressed Father Latour. I wonder if it is foreshadowing anything in the rest of the story.

The cavern and what bothered Father Latour is an interesting puzzle. Jacinto's reaction was pretty extreme which makes the mystery even more unusual. The Indians truly appear to hold on to their native beliefs in some ways even though they have converted to Catholicism.

My biggest impression from Book 3 was how poor and uneducated the majority of the rural people were that the Bishop served. The Native Americans had some Mexican priests living among them, but the priests were frequently very uneducated and basic in their understanding of Catholic beliefs. The faithful priests that the Bishop encountered in some of the distant villages in these chapters are a pleasant contrast to the greedy, rich priests soon to be met around Taos.

Chapter 3 is titled "The Rock" because Father Latour visits an Indian village located on top of a large rock which has kept the villagers safe from rival Indian tribes through many years. The Bishop thinks about how the rock is an "utmost expression of human need." It is a comparison of loyalty. Christ called Peter his rock. And Father Latour thinks about how the ancient Hebrews carried their rock, the idea of God, with them as captives in a foreign land. It was the one thing that could never be taken from them. And now, the priest visits another group of people who yearn for something permanent who actually live on their rock. I think of the few faithful priests that Latour has met on this trip as a rock. They have virtually no possessions and no desire for worldly wealth or notoriety, but they serve their people and keep the ways of the church alive in these remote areas. That is far more important to the daily lives of the poor villagers than the lovely cathedral being planned by Father Latour in Santa Fe or the riches of the Vatican so far away.

Interesting comment of the possible symbolism of "the rock", Laurie. I didn't dwell on it when I read that portion of the book, but I have been thinking about how, gradually, the various characters have been learning about each other by living together out there in that arid land. One would think that, over time, their "versions" of Catholicism would meld together. . . . the European, the Mexican, and the Native American religious beliefs. What made me ponder a bit was the mysterious something deep in the earth, the opening to which Jacinto so carefully sealed up, in the cavern. Also, why the place disconcerted Bishop Latour?

Since this won't be a spoiler for you, I'll discuss something from Book 5.

Father Martinez, the worldly priest from Taos, believes the different versions of old world Catholicism and native beliefs do meld. Even more than meld, he thinks the faith in New Mexico has grown in a new way and supplanted the old beliefs. When he and Father Latour disagree about whether celibacy is essential to the priesthood, Father Latour comments that he will reform the practice of non-celibacy in his diocese. Father Martinez who is the worst offender thinks that won't work and tells the Bishop,

But for all that, our native priests are more devout than your French Jesuits. We are a living church here, not a dead arm of the European Church. Our religion grew out of the soil, and has its own roots. We pay filial respect to the person of the Holy Father, but Rome has no authority here. We do not require aid from the Propaganda, and we resent its interference. The Church the Franciscans Fathers planted here was cut off; this is the second growth, and is indigenous. Our people are the most devout left in the world. If you blast their faith by European formalities, they will become infidels and profligates.

Needless to say, Father Latour does not agree.

About the opening in the cave, I assume we are to think it is the serpent that Jacinto's tribe is rumored to keep alive in the hills that they bring back to the village for native religious ceremonies. Certainly there is something in the cave that is so secret that Jacinto was concerned that Father Latour could not know about it. It is interesting that it is a serpent that they supposedly keep alive and use in their ceremonies. Since the Bible depicts Satan as a snake (serpent), it is an indication that the Indian tribe is using some kind of sorcery in their ceremonies. So maybe Father Latour was very sensitive to some kind of evil. I also wondered what is really on the other side of that hole, so it's too bad we never found out.