Flights of Fantasy discussion

As you do.

Mark < spoiler > spoilers < /spoiler > or get turned into an automaton.

For anyone interested in reading this one, Doctrow released it for free download on his own website:

http://craphound.com/down/download/

I've started it. Not my kind of thing, but I'm always ready to try to expand my horizons....

Finished. Very much worth reading. The beginning wasn't fun for me, all the new words and the drug references.... But we get past that pretty quick and the story itself then moves along right thrillingly. And the end, well, I think I want to say poignant....

I still don't feel a need to read anything else by Doctorow, but I do recommend this.

:echo: Is anyone else reading this or planning to?

Cheryl wrote: ":echo: Is anyone else reading this or planning to?"

I'm going to give it a looksee but I'm not rushing towards it - its not quite my cuppa.

I read it a few years back and wasn't impressed.

Well, somebody voted for it. Oh well.

Cheryl wrote: "Well, somebody voted for it. Oh well."

lol

I plan on reading it after Six of Crows.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I plan on reading it after Six of Crows."

I need to try that one again.

I'm reading Follow the Model: Miss J's Guide to Unleashing Presence, Poise, and Power and it's quite interesting. Of course, this shows you how much Six caught my attention - I'm reading non-fiction. O_O

Heh...That was just my discussion contribution. I really dont remember any details except some Disney shit..

Chris wrote: "Heh...That was just my discussion contribution. I really dont remember any details except some Disney shit.."

LOL!

I started it but...IDK if I'm his target audience. We'll see...

Started this this morning. Not bad so far, though not quite what I was expecting.

Seems a pretty short book, so I don't think it'll take too long to get through.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Started this this morning. Not bad so far, though not quite what I was expecting.

Seems a pretty short book, so I don't think it'll take too long to get through."


I'm still not getting into it... :-(

WHO nominated and voted for this book????!

Well, I'm one of the people who voted for it.

Nobody is discussing. :(

I'm ok with the personal/character aspect of the story...

But I'm having issues when it gets into a battle between (view spoiler)[Disney rides. (hide spoiler)]. It's just not something I care about enough to be invested in who wins... at least not so far.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm ok with the personal/character aspect of the story...

But I'm having issues when it gets into a battle between [spoilers removed]. It's just not something I care about enough to be invested in..."

Where are you? I'm about 35% in and...I like some of the ideas but for the most part I'm kinda....wondering where the part that I care comes in at.

IDK. It's different and I like the Wuffie but I hate the name.

I hate the idea of Whuffie. To constantly monitor whether I have people's approval or not. Yeesh.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I hate the idea of Whuffie. To constantly monitor whether I have people's approval or not. Yeesh."

Yeah, that part is true. But I think it's a very interesting idea. And I think it's a bit more... "democratic" way of handling the idea of money. It not something you can steal/trick/threaten someone for anymore.

Though I wouldn't really be interested in dealing with in IRL.

I'm not sure you couldn't trick people.

I mean... I know people who are popular, who people get all swoony over... who people are convinced are so smart and clever and interesting...

And they're legitimately horrible people who have tricked people into thinking their competent.


And then there are people who are really good at their jobs and their lives and stuff... but who aren't good at the "schmoozing" thing, so wouldn't have high popularity.


Like... it's a system that automatically favors extroverts, which we have quite enough of already.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm not sure you couldn't trick people.

I mean... I know people who are popular, who people get all swoony over... who people are convinced are so smart and clever and interesting...

And they're ..."

I was thinking more along of "trick" as in scamming.

But still - those people would have to be permanently smoozing at all times or their house of cards come down.

And I can see why you would say it favors extroverts but I think it would probably balance out by the people surrounding you + the work that you do. My understanding of what I read is that doing good jobs and being good at life gets you Whuffie, too. So you'd probably get a shitton based on how you deal with shitty people at your job, etc. EX: my boss has to talk to this total dick on a very regular basis. There is no way I could deal the way he does - so every time he has these conversations, I admire him just a little bit more.

MrsJoseph wrote: " So you'd probably get a shitton based on how you deal with shitty people at your job, etc. "


Yeah...

I'd be screwed.

Though I suppose it's possible my sarcasm towards people might balance out...

The person I'm lambasting would give me negative points, but other people who hated that person would give me positive?

Ugh. So exhausting.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: " So you'd probably get a shitton based on how you deal with shitty people at your job, etc. "


Yeah...

I'd be screwed."

Oh, yes. Me, too. So very screwed, lol.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Though I suppose it's possible my sarcasm towards people might balance out...

The person I'm lambasting would give me negative points, but other people who hated that person would give me positive..."

I'd think this - I mean, I love a good snark and a lot of other people, too.

As a side note, I'm assuming Bitchun is meant to be pronounced as "bitchin'", yes?

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "As a side note, I'm assuming Bitchun is meant to be pronounced as "bitchin'", yes?"

I hope so. That's what I've been saying in my head. Otherwise it's something way more weird I haven't been able to figure out.

LOL.

I figured there was the possibility it wasn't meant to be a pun and was actually something like "Bi-choon" or something... but, all things considered, I'm fairly sure it's meant to be "bitchin'".

"Wow, that ride was really bitchin... "

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "LOL.

I figured there was the possibility it wasn't meant to be a pun and was actually something like "Bi-choon" or something... but, all things considered, I'm fairly sure it's meant to be "bitch..."

That was my take, too.

So, yeah, I found the central point of conflict, and the details like Wuffie, etc. to be intriguing. Discussable, even. ;) But, yeah, it would be a whole different way of life. Some of us would not be terribly successful....

Those of us who are hermits, misanthropes, or otherwise would totally have to be more self-sufficient, as I don't recall a way to get Blue Apron and Zappos just on Wuffie... or did I miss (or forget) something?

Around 74% in.

I gotta wonder... if I was Julius, I think I'd be tempted to (view spoiler)[stop trying to save the Mansion and just let Debbie take over and then be like, "told you so" to the ad-hocs. (hide spoiler)] But I'm petty like that.

***

There was some mention that even people with zeroed out Whuffie could still get a place to live and food to eat - since there's no scarcity there's no real need for people to not have the necessities.

I get the sense that it's more the higher the Whuffie the more privilege/luxury you can "afford". I don't think it goes into detail about how, exactly, Whuffie works and translates into the actual buying of things, though...

Yeah, I dunno. I don't even like Disney stuff, so I had a hard time truly empathizing with either kind of scheme. I was very much on the outside, watching... good thing it was a short book!

Finished this last night.

It wasn't what I was expecting... but, then, the follow up to that is I'm not 100% sure what I was expecting, so there's that.

I was glad that (view spoiler)[Dan came clean and Julius had some comeuppance. I would've been annoyed if it was just him slowly going nuts without any real resolution.

I liked Dan's spiel to Lil's, "What am I supposed to do?" with the whole, "You could be a friend. You could stick by him the way he stuck by you," because it seemed to me that she sort of gave up on him and moved on really quickly... but that could be an issue with narrative flow, I suppose. Maybe more time passed than it seemed. (hide spoiler)]


It does make you think a bit. What would you do if you lived in this world? Would you let things take their "natural course", or would you want to live forever? I'd probably take the living forever route - but, then, it does come into questions of morality. If you can just be "rebooted", then it's like, (view spoiler)["Oh, someone killed you? That's sad. Move on." (hide spoiler)]

Like, if nothing's permanent, and if you literally have all the time in the world, then things seem to matter less.


Anyway -

I did have a hard time getting into the war for a Disney ride aspect of it - but I tend to get caught up in the protagonist's perspective, so found myself generally on Julius' side just because it was his story.


I think the thing that would scare me the most about this world is the way that soooo much is just dependant on what people think of you. I already feel like our world places far too much weight on "popularity" over all things, and the future presented here is just a huge escalation of that.

There was some mention of how people could live semi-outside the Whuffie zone - in parks and little enclaves of artists and musicians and whatnot. It seems like a very either/or kind of thing, though.

Anyway - ended up giving it 3 stars. Decent enough read, though I'm glad it wasn't longer, and I wish we saw more of the world as a whole and less just about the weird fight over Disney politics.

colleen, this time we pretty much agree on a book, except that I liked it a bit more, and I'm pretty sure I would not want to live forever.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I think the thing that would scare me the most about this world is the way that soooo much is just dependant on what people think of you. I already feel like our world places far too much weight on "popularity" over all things, and the future presented here is just a huge escalation of that.

There was some mention of how people could live semi-outside the Whuffie zone - in parks and little enclaves of artists and musicians and whatnot. It seems like a very either/or kind of thing, though."

I haven't finished so my perception maybe incorrect but didn't it say that its not really popularity/liking someone but rather respect? Because I recall it said that you get more Whuffie/weighted Whuffie if someone who didn't like/agree with you gave it.

But again with the whuffie, every time I see/write that I think of those kids who sniff the paints and glues.

Cheryl wrote: "colleen, this time we pretty much agree on a book, except that I liked it a bit more, and I'm pretty sure I would not want to live forever."

I think with the Deadheading option... I'd want to stick around and see how things go.

MrsJoseph wrote: "I haven't finished so my perception maybe incorrect but didn't it say that its not really popularity/liking someone but rather respect? Because I recall it said that you get more Whuffie/weighted Whuffie if someone who didn't like/agree with you gave it. "

But how do you measure "respect"? What do people even mean when they say "respect"?

But, aside from all that... at one point Julius gets (view spoiler)[sympathy Whuffie (hide spoiler)], so it's definitely just a sort of general "how people are feeling towards you".

And when people are low on Whuffie there's this horrible Catch-22, because people meet you and instantly look at your Whuffie and if it's low they auto-shun you.

Which could be an interesting commentary about how the cycles of our society sort of keep us in these destructive patterns. In a completely over-simplified example, poor people get bad education which limits their opportunities which keeps them poor...

So it's sort of an interesting commentary on how things work now - but at least now I can't look up someone's info as soon as I meet them.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "But how do you measure "respect"? What do people even mean when they say "respect"?"

I guess that's a personal thing - I've always separated respect from liking someone. EX: my husband has a couple of friends whom I like just fine. They are entertaining, amusing, fun, helpful and friendly. But I do NOT respect these guys based on the behavior they have shown throughout the time I have known them.

I've also met people whom I didn't care for personally but I respect their opinion and trust their judgement. (Esp professors!) But me caring for you personally vs admitting you're smart/good at what you do/etc is different.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "But, aside from all that... at one point Julius gets (view spoiler), so it's definitely just a sort of general "how people are feeling towards you"."

Hmmm, I remember that, as well.

But can't it be a combo of the two? Just like you pat your stupid family members on the head give them a $1 for some pop... But you buy a book from a talented author who's personal opinions you don't always care for.

That's the thing, though. It's not really defined and, to me, in practice, it seems like a popularity kind of thing.


And what I mean is respect is there's the whole "respect all people" which is really just "be civil and don't be a dick", and then there's actual respect for a person...