Retro Reads discussion

For open spoilers & final conclusions!

Does mentioning a Leicester Car Park count as a spoiler? It will be interesting re-reading this with that extra knowledge.

I loved this read! And today, while I was searching an online database, I queries Richard III, and Getty Images spat out an image of him with the following caption:

"Richard III, (1452 - 1485), King of England who had a hand in murdering his nephews in the Tower, circa 1483. He was overthrown by Henry Tudor, later Henry VIII after being defeated and killed at the Battle of Bosworth. From an ancient original painting. (Photo by Hulton Archive/Getty Images)"

This was the image:

I think that the image that intrigued Grant was this one that has been used on several editions of the book:


Critterbee, that image you posted is just awful.

Ach, I think cameras weren't so good in the 15th century...
;)

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Ach, I think cameras weren't so good in the 15th century...
;)"

**snork**

Did you notice the typo in the (equally awful) caption--where they put Henry VIII instead of the correct Henry VII?? So--can we trust these people? Nope.

Yes, I am going to submit a request for correction - it is a reference database after all!

Just finished last night. I was happy to find that it continues to entertain me (as well as educate--I do keep forgetting some of the historical details.)

However, this was not the book that turned young Barb into a Ricardian. That honor goes to Marguerite Vance's "Song for a Lute"--a fictional story for children based on Richard's life (but ending before Bosworth). It came out in 1958, which was when I first read it (so 5th grade). I fell for Richard then and there.
So I didn't really need convincing by the time I first read 'The Daughter of Time' as a young teen.

I have not read that! Will search my library for it. I am reading Horace Walpole's Historic Doubts on the Life and Reign of King Richard the Third - got an ebook version on Project Gutenberg for free, it is pretty easy to read considering that it was written centuries ago.

Critterbee❇ wrote: "I have not read that! Will search my library for it. I am reading Horace Walpole's Historic Doubts on the Life and Reign of King Richard the Third - got an ebook version on Project ..."

Just checked WorldCat--looks like the closest copies of Song for a Lute are in Oklahoma! I think it's worth an ILL request. Thanks for the info on the Walpole. I may track that down.
I think I still have my copy of Sharon Kay Penman's 'A Sunne in Splendour' around here some place. It is one of those books which just ripped out my heart and stomped it flat--not sure I can face it again...

I found a used copy from a bookseller in Montana, at a fair price - yay!

Did anyone who’s also reading The Dean’s Watch find this familiar? “In the Fen country. Near Ely.”

Peggy wrote: "Did anyone who’s also reading The Dean’s Watch find this familiar? “In the Fen country. Near Ely.”"

Oh yeah--I did a little hum of recognition. "I know where that is", said I.

Sounds like beautiful country, I love marshlands, like the low country around Charleston, SC; it just seems so timeless and eternal, with all the wildlife and the quality of light. Very serene and restful.

I need to risk my heart and read The Sunne in Splendour. A novel I adored (and cried over) as a teen was We Speak No Treason. I think I need to revisit it.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "I have not read that! Will search my library for it. I am reading Horace Walpole's Historic Doubts on the Life and Reign of King Richard the Third - got an ebook..."

Peggy wrote: "I need to risk my heart and read The Sunne in Splendour. A novel I adored (and cried over) as a teen was We Speak No Treason. I think I need to revisit it."

OMG! How could I have forgotten 'We Speak No Treason"?!
Loved that one. Also a favorite was Margaret Campbell Barnes' The King's Bed.
'The Sunne in Splendour' is a very good example of a fictionalized biography. Rather like Tey's imagined 'The Rose of Raby' that Grant reads in 'The Daughter of Time'. I think you find it worthy.

The most thought-provoking aspect of this novel was the human habit, which apparently has taken place throughout history, of turning crazy rumours into widely accepted beliefs. Never has this been more relevant than with the rise of social media. Just think what his enemies could have done to poor Richard III if they had used Twitter! I have come to question almost everything I see on social media, even things I would LIKE to believe.

My review is here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Elinor wrote: "The most thought-provoking aspect of this novel was the human habit, which apparently has taken place throughout history, of turning crazy rumours into widely accepted beliefs. Never has this been ..."

Very true!

Elinor wrote: "The most thought-provoking aspect of this novel was the human habit, which apparently has taken place throughout history, of turning crazy rumours into widely accepted beliefs. Never has this been ..."

Yes, it's a terrrrible time we live in, when we can't even believe the news we'd like to believe!

Too true, it is always good to check sources and facts, and even more necessary in this age when there is absolutely no penalty for lying consistently.

We've gotten too lax over lying and way too ready to excuse what we consider to be "small" lies. Back in the old days, you whippersnappers, all lies were wrong! (I think I remember them...) Honesty was a virtue to be chased after and not sneered over, and lying was highly penalized for children. Ah, integrity...

Ah, the good old days, eh, missus?! But I agree 100%, the lying and “alternative facts” nonsense has to stop - what’s the old saying about you can have your own opinions, but not your own facts?

Susan in NC wrote: "Ah, the good old days, eh, missus?! But I agree 100%, the lying and “alternative facts” nonsense has to stop - what’s the old saying about you can have your own opinions, but not your own facts?"

I hadn't heard that one, but I love it! I wish we would just respect the truth, value it, make it important and not just something to twist for so-called gain.

Still love the book!

Walpole apparently recanted his originalviews later in life.

Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Still love the book!

Walpole apparently recanted his originalviews later in life."

Whaa? Oh I did not know that. You mean Walpole recounted everything he wrote about 'Historic Doubts' about Richard, etc?

He apparently "changed his mind" and decided that Richard could have done it. I don't know why, though!

And I really appreciated the book this time around, by the way. I got more out of it than just the mystery part of it.

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Still love the book!

Walpole apparently recanted his originalviews later in life."

Whaa? Oh I did not know that. You mean Walpole recounted everything he wrote about 'Historic D..."

Yes apparently. Around the time of the revolution. Any historians here who want to say why he did that?

The bit I read just said "around the time of the Terror", but I'm not sure why they'd be related!

Karlyne wrote: "The bit I read just said "around the time of the Terror", but I'm not sure why they'd be related!"

When the Mob descends on Strawberry Hill, you don't want to be seen as a supporter of Royalty ...

Oh, definitely, but it still seems odd to me that he'd be seriously worried about that eventuality. Was he working for the Revolution?

Ok, so a bit of quick reading, and it seems as though the fear was not from the French themselves, but from the British who were holding the Revolution in admiration. Makes more sense to me now.

Daughter of Time is just fabulous. I love it every time I read it. The PR job done by the Tudors against Richard lll is a match for any of the Fake News of today. I studied this period and always knew that Richard was not the monster of historical legend, I just loved the way Tey turned a historical puzzle into an entertaining, yet educational novel. I was always taught that sources had to be proven to be accurate, and duly verified before using them as ‘facts’ and that even then they were not necessarily true! Context is key.
Today that philosophy and research practice seems to have been totally abandoned: more’s the pity.

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Daughter of Time is just fabulous. I love it every time I read it. The PR job done by the Tudors against Richard lll is a match for any of the Fake News of today. I studied this period and always k..."

Exactly! I think I got so much more out of it this time simply because we're so bombarded by "facts" these days that truth seems to have disappeared.

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Daughter of Time is just fabulous. I love it every time I read it. The PR job done by the Tudors against Richard lll is a match for any of the Fake News of today. I studied this period and always k..."

So true, my friend; of course, that quest for facts, truth and academic rigor among the Scots is what earned Edinburgh the title “Athens of the North”! I read that in a book years ago, and thought, “how proud Scottish people must be of that title,” little knowing that in a few short years, my own country would become christened the “Land of Fake News” - yikes!

Hopefully we’ll get back to that quest for truth and facts soon.

Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Daughter of Time is just fabulous. I love it every time I read it. The PR job done by the Tudors against Richard lll is a match for any of the Fake News of today. I stud..."

Amen, sister!