The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Hi everyone, sorry I'm opening this late. I forgot to mention last week that I was going to be away for several days (we had a holiday here in the U.S.). Later today I'll post my thoughts on this week's reading and hopefully catch up on last week's conversation. As always, no one needs to wait for me to post about chapters 43-49.

Thanks Jeremy and have a good time!

It was certainly refreshing to have extra time off. If my oldest daughter wasn't going through such a difficult phase I could have used some of that time to read. This was the first section that after I finished it I wanted to keep reading. In fact, my opinion of the book has risen appreciably since chapter 42.

In this week's reading we see the Warburton-Pansy situation fall apart. I doubt any of us expected that relationship to go anywhere, but Osmond and Merle certainly did. They both put the blame squarely on Isabel for letting him slip, or perhaps even driving Warburton away. Isabel isn't surprised that her husband is unhappy - she expected as much. What does seem out of place is Madame Merle's anger and harsh words. Isabel can't understand why a family friend would take such a personal interest in Pansy's affairs. Prior to Madame Merle's outburst of frustration over Warburton leaving Isabel had already been growing uneasy about Merle and Osmond's relationship. Isabel had been troubled by dreams, strange visions, and a general uneasiness. She felt there was more to their relationship than she knew. They were entirely too comfortable for people who were only friends.

Madame Merle's anger over Warburton made the picture clearer for Isabel. She realized that she had been a pawn in a game that she didn't understand. It finally dawned on her that Osmond was after her fortune. What she hasn't figured out is why Madame Merle schemed against her.

At the end of the section James gives us an interview between Osmond and Merle. Here we begin to suspect, if we hadn't already, that Madame Merle is more than just a friend to Pansy. By the end of the conversation we can be sure Merle is Pansy's mother.

Other highlights from this action-packed section include Ralph being near death and resolving to return to England. Henrietta proves herself to be a loyal friend to both Isabel and Ralph. Caspar, who has never stopped loving Isabel, learns of her unhappiness. Edward Rosier sells his treasures so he will have enough money to satisfy Osmond and marry Pansy. Finally, Countess Gemini reappears. She is a thoroughly disagreeable woman, at least according to Henrietta and Isabel's moral code.

As I reflect on this section I feel it is one of the richest we have encountered. All of the action is rushing toward its conclusion. Caspar has made a bold declaration to Isabel and an even bolder proposal. Isabel chooses to stay with Osmond. I was repeatedly reminded in this section of Isabel's earlier statements about having some sort of terrible fate she must meet.
I think we could have a lengthy conversation about each chapter, and hopefully we will, but I'll close for now with this thought. At the beginning of our conversation, many weeks ago, we talked a great deal about the contrasts between American and English customs and what James was trying to do with the contrast. With Warburton gone, most of the characters left have direct ties to America. Henrietta and Caspar are solidly American. Isabel is more difficult to define. Madame Merle and Osmond, although born in America, are thoroughly European. I'm not sure what to do with this, but let me hazard an analysis. Someone else can come in and complete or correct it.

If Henrietta and Caspar represent America and Osmond and Merle represent Europe, then what we see is energy, selflessness, and directness on the American side. On the European side we see languidness, selfishness, and deceit. Isabel is caught between these two forces - not in the sense that she must choose between them, because in that sense she is American, but in the sense that both positions threaten to crush and tear her with their demands.

Jeremy wrote: " ..Caspar, who has never stopped loving Isabel, learns of her unhappiness and asks her to run away with him..."

Oh gosh, I must have missed this bit! I've just re-read chapter 47 where Goodwood arrives and speaks to Isabel and I can't find it ... Please tell me where to look, as this is vital to the story and I can't believe I didn't take it in.

Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "Jeremy wrote: " ..Caspar, who has never stopped loving Isabel, learns of her unhappiness and asks her to run away with him..."

Oh gosh, I must have missed this bit! I've just re-read chapter 47 w..."

Helen, my apologies! I was reading the Wikipedia article on the book yesterday and clearly I've conflated the article with our section. I'm sorry for the spoiler. At the end of chapter 48 Caspar declares his love for Isabel, but you're absolutely right, what I mentioned doesn't happen until later. I'm going to go back and edit my original post.

Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "...I've just re-read chapter 47 where Goodwood arrives and speaks to Isabel and I can't find it ... Please tell me where to look, as this is vital to the story and I can't believe I didn't take it in. ..."

I don't know what edition you have, Helen, but try Chapter 55? Oh, yes, that is beyond Chapter 49!

(view spoiler)[Here it seems to me we get possibilities from both Warburton and Casper, if Isabel were to take the initiative:

"'I don’t know whether you would come to Lockleigh for a day or two? You know there’s always that old promise.' And his lordship coloured a little as he made this suggestion, which gave his face a somewhat more familiar air."

James, Henry (2011-02-07). Complete Works of Henry James (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 46584-46586). Delphi Classics. Kindle Edition.

"We can do absolutely as we please; to whom under the sun do we owe anything? What is it that holds us, what is it that has the smallest right to interfere in such a question as this? Such a question is between ourselves—and to say that is to settle it! Were we born to rot in our misery—were we born to be afraid? I never knew YOU afraid! If you’ll only trust me,....."

James, Henry (2011-02-07). Complete Works of Henry James (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 46692-46694). Delphi Classics. Kindle Edition. (hide spoiler)]

Yes Chapter 55 - poor old Goodwood! Just because he has a cotton factory and not a castle or a roman palace snobby James gave him short shrift:(

Jeremy: Thanks again. Re your last para, I think it is a representation of the Old World v. the New. Isabel has exchanged her New World innocence for Old World decadence. She is living with Mephistopheles but is she yet damned?

Madge wrote: "Yes Chapter 55 - poor old Goodwood! Just because he has a cotton factory and not a castle or a roman palace snobby James gave him short shrift:(..."

LOL. Warburton didn't fare so well either.

True but I feel Goodwood is the only chap who really loved her and would have given her the (American) liberty she needed.

Madge wrote: "True but I feel Goodwood is the only chap who really loved her and would have given her the (American) liberty she needed."

(Smile) The romantic in me had a Mr. Darcy-type soft spot for Wharburton. If one could put up with his sisters, seemed like a decent enough good-looking chap with a nice house and some time in London when Parliament was in session. ;-0

But she would have become part of the English aristocracy who would have expected her to conform.

Well done, Jeremy. But I’m slightly troubled by your recapitulation of Old and New World characteristics. Or is James telling his compatriots that once they made the mistake of moving over they should stick to it and suffer the consequences?

The style of PoaL is indeed changed (in and) after Chapter 42. From here on developments hurry directly to their (now predictable?) conclusion. The book becomes a more conventional Victorian novel.

I like the development in Henrietta’s persona - she finally is something more than a Dickensian caricature. The Correggio must illustrate some of her feelings (I wonder what James thought of the painting).

Jeremy wrote: "Helen, my apologies! I was reading the Wikipedia article on the book yesterday and clearly I've conflated the article with our section. I'm sorry for the spoiler"...

Ok, so I didn't miss anything, just haven't read beyond chapter 49 yet!

I found this section (43-49) contained a lot of language, but not much action. Friends of Isabel arrive and she confides little and manages to move them all out again. Ralph is still totally unaware that his meddling in his uncle's will is probably the main reason for Isabel's desperately unhappy state ... in fact I don't think he even knows she is in an unhappy state. Osmond continues to blame Isabel for everything and now Madam Merle is showing her true colours and causing more misery for Isabel. Poor girl.

James considerably revised PoaL in 1906 and according to this reviewer, added much more metaphor:-

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n19/james-wo...

He was a successful author living in Europe then, away from his puritanical family and perhaps more at ease with his sexuality

I do not see James as being overly critical of the Old World because he happily settled there and renounced his American citizenship when America did not at first join WWI. On the other hand he did deplore the worship of the sort of never ending antiquities to be found in Rome,Florence and Naples, which Osmond's collecting personifies and which Rosier eventually rejects to win Pansy. To me Isabel, in her black bombazine, the dress of mourning, comes to resemble an innocent insect caught in an ancient cobweb, an American Miss Faversham.

Henrietta is my favourite character. She is all that Isabel could have been; feisty, warm hearted, a successful career woman and FREE. An American with the confidence to take on London of the fin de siecle and a like-minded, compliant English boy friend.

Helen: 'contain[ing] a lot of language' is an understatement where James is concerned! I guess he didn't do very well at precis writing when he was at school:)

Wendel wrote: "But I’m slightly troubled by your recapitulation of Old and New World characteristics."

Why do you think James gives his American characters so many positive traits and his European characters so few? Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way though. Osmond's bad character may have nothing to do with being an expatriot. One possibility I've considered is that even though James set up a contrast between the Old and New worlds in the early chapters, that contrast loses its force by the middle of the book.

Madge wrote: "On the other hand he did deplore the worship of the sort of never ending antiquities to be found in Rome,Florence and Naples, which Osmond's collecting personifies and which Rosier eventually rejects to win Pansy."

Great observation - I was only looking at Rosier's actions as a way of making money. Rosier selling his collection is a rejection of Osmond's values and treatment of other people.

Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "I found this section (43-49) contained a lot of language, but not much action."

Really?! Compared to earlier chapters where the only definitive action was taking tea, I think there's quite a bit happening here. The (mild) flirtation Warburton has with Pansy ends. Caspar and Henrietta arrive. Ralph leaves. Isabel breaks down and admits she's unhappy. Caspar proclaims his love for Isabel. Madame Merle becomes insolent with Isabel. Osmond and Merle throw more light on their relationship. I think for James this section was equivalent to the pace of a Dan Brown novel.

LOL Jeremy, steady on!

I think you are right about the Old v. the New losing its force by the middle of the book Jeremy and perhaps this is because James himself was becoming more assimilated into European culture; the longer he stayed, the more he understood our quaint old ways. Just like y'all have become accustomed to me:):

Jeremy wrote: "Why do you think James gives his American characters so many positive traits and his European characters so few..."

Actually, there are few European characters. You must be thinking of Osmond & Merle, but Osmond and his sister are expatriates and about Merle we only know that she was once married to a Swede (according to Wikipedia she is also an American expatriate). That leaves just Warburton and Henrietta’s hubby, who are innocent enough.

Given James’s personal position the contrast can hardly be expected to be so simple. Isabel is moved to Europe for her adventures, which must be meaningful, but the theme remains a bit under the surface. What I remember (the initial description of Isabel and the musings of Touchett sr. in the first chapters, and later a few remarks on Henrietta and Goodwood) seems to concern mainly the 'innocence' of the young Americans.

It isn't just the innocence of the young Americans though, it is the innocence, the newness, of America itself compared with Europe (which of course includes England and London).

This reviewer of Daisy Miller writes of James' attitudes towards America and Europe:-

http://egophobia.ro/?p=5302

I was wondering what James himself wrote on the subject, Madge. In PoaL. But I am very happy you consider England to be part of Europe. We feel a bit lonely sometimes, wedged as we are between French and Germans :).

Of course it is part of Europe, always has been:) We were once joined to France. Yours is a lovely little country, have been there several times and my granddaughter spent a couple of terms at Amsterdam University and loved it.

I was struck by how idle everyone is, European or American. Even Goodwood, who seems to be forceful and successful, can spend months in Europe. No one even uses their money to be a patron to artists, unless you consider collecting things being a patron. They dutifully visit historic sites but don't seem to learn much and don't have any plan to contribute anything to the world.

That's why wealthy people are called the idle rich Robin:)

Wendel wrote: "Jeremy wrote: "Why do you think James gives his American characters so many positive traits and his European characters so few..."

Actually, there are few European characters. You must be thinking..."

True, I am considering Osmond and Merle European because by their own admission they don't recall their American upbringing.

Robin wrote: "I was struck by how idle everyone is, European or American. Even Goodwood, who seems to be forceful and successful, can spend months in Europe. No one even uses their money to be a patron to artist..."

I've long felt James presents a different slice of the late nineteenth century world from a different perspective than many other authors. One of the more similar is John Galsworthy, who writes somewhat later. Others among you can perhaps suggest other possibilities -- probably I should include Trollope. No other American name comes to mind, at least at the moment? Okay, I guess I should think of Wharton.

James and Wharton are writing about the same segment of society, but I agree that the presentation is quite different. We know action is taking place in PoAL. Isabel and Osmond entertain fairly often. Warburton is an important statesman. Merle must be plotting how she can secure her retirement years (okay, maybe that's just a modern American preoccupation). People ARE doing things, but as Robin notes, most people appear idle. With Wharton we are told what it takes to entertain. How the fading aristocracy pay for their grand feasts, the ordering of new dresses, the slights and offenses that take place in the upper spheres of society - all of the inner workings of being a socialite. All the same activities must be taking place in PoAL too, but James doesn't describe what it means for Isabel to be a leading member of society in Rome. It leaves the impression that no one is doing anything, but it's probably more accurate to say no one is doing anything useful.

Wharton was a great admirer of James and they were close fiends who mixed in the same circles but her style is much more transparent and 'chatty'. She does not go in for introspection but is 'up front'. Hers is the stuff of soap opera, his of the grand opera.