Christian Goodreaders discussion

This will be the thread for posting all of our thoughts, comments, questions, reactions, background information, etc. as we read The Cost of Discipleship together this month! (Of course, the thread will permanently stay open, as people read the book in the future and continue the conversation.)

Sorry - posted this in the wrong place first time.
I've only got as far as the Introduction, but I was struck by this sentence (p.31 in my edition):
'The command of Jesus is hard, unutterably hard, for those who try to resist it. But for those who willingly submit, the yoke is easy and the burden is light'.
I'd never explicitly thought of that correlation.

Peter wrote: "...I was struck by this sentence (p.31 in my edition):
'The command of Jesus is hard, unutterably hard, for those who try to resist it. But for those who willingly submit, the yoke is easy and the burden is light'.
I'd never explicitly thought of that correlation."

Peter, that was my reaction, too. (I'm reading a different edition, though, the Macmillan reprint of the 1959 Student Christian Movement 2nd unabridged edition, which includes the parts left out of the first English translation; the quote is on p. 40 in this one.) That's a beautiful explanation of the inescapable role of grace in Christian obedience.

Having had a vague memory of reading something by Bonhoeffer back in my dim past (when I was about 23 years old), I was thinking what I'd read was both this book and Life Together. But having just finished Chapter 2, I've concluded now that I only read the latter book before, not this one. The material I've read since starting this book is new to me, and would have made more of an impression (and a favorable one!) if I'd read it even at that young age. (I was raised as a Lutheran, but had already left that denomination, partly because I had some of the same negative reaction to modern Lutheranism's abuse of grace theology that Bonhoeffer did --though I couldn't have expressed it as clearly and articulately as he does in what I just read!)

I probably should also add this 'tip' here, so that it's in the right place.

Another tip that may be of interest.
When we were discussing the Metaxas biography, I mentioned the BBC Radio 'In Our Time' podcast about Bonhoeffer. It's at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b0b... in case anyone would like to listen to it.

Thanks for the link, Peter!

I finished the book this morning. However, I won't have time to write a review until Friday.

So far, I haven't commented much about the book. That's not because there's nothing to say; rather, the book is so thought-provoking I haven't really known where to begin! Once it's posted, I'll link to my review here; and perhaps that will be a springboard for more conversation.

I want to read this book but I can't afford to buy it.
Any suggestions?

David, have you checked whether your public library has it? Ours has it available as an ebook. What about your church library? Or maybe someone here would be willing to send theirs after they’ve finished reading. (I’ve just started and I’m reading the German original)

Or try Ebay. You might be able to get it for $4-$5. Betterworldbooks has a copy for less than $8.

David, if your local library doesn't have this book, chances are they can get it for you by borrowing it from another library (that's called "interlibrary loan"). Ask your librarians about this service --it's usually free!

Or try this, which I found through a Google search: https://www.cycledoctoralfactec.com/u...

Here's the link to my four-star review, for anyone who's interested: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... . (i posted it a couple of days ago, but just didn't get around to linking to it here until now --sorry!)

Interesting link, Swantje, from a copyright point of view. As DB died more than 70 years ago, his copyright as author has expired, but I don't know whether the publisher could extend the copyright. However, unless the translator died over 70 years ago I suspect the English translation is still in copyright and whoever uploaded the pdf is in breach.

I've just finished the book, and it was not an easy read. I won't write a review, as Werner has written a comprehensive one, but I have a couple of comments.
There are some interesting contrasts. Early in the book, DB is quite critical of the historical development of the church through 'cheap grace' and points out that each person stands before God as an individual, but he finishes with resounding emphasis on the importance of the church as the body of Christ.
Bonhoeffer recognises a paradox himself in writing re Matthew 5.16 and 6:1 'Our activity must be visible, but never done for the sake of making it visible'. He squares this circle by saying 'We are to hide it from ourselves.'
Given what he went through, his exposition of the centrality of suffering for the believer is poignantly prophetic. But (as Werner mentions in his review) it also seems clear that his view on pacifism changed after this book was written, as he experienced the rise of Nazism. I've written with less theological depth on this in my Peacemakers: A Christian View of War and Peace. According to the late Paddy Ashdown, Bonhoeffer had a role as the 'pastor' of the resistance and proclaimed that 'God required a lie if this was the only way to protect a deeper truth against evil' (Nein!: Standing up to Hitler 1935–1944).

I am about half way through the book so far. I too have noticed that Bonhoeffer's views as laid out in this book seem contradictory in many ways to how he lived later in his life as he resisted Hitler and the Nazi regime. He writes at length about never resisting or fighting back against an enemy, yet he later does so. He also writes about how Christians should be completely removed from politics and never fight for their rights, yet later he works to resist the politics of the Nazis and try to preserve the rights of the Church as a whole and Christians as individuals. He seems to have either greatly changed or betrayed his views later in life.

Bonhoeffer is following what many Christians encounter as they walk in the faith and grow, Additionally, Hitler and the Nazi regime operated 79 years ( before most of us were alive) ~ thus, our comprehension is 'clouded/ insufficient' as many years have past. Thus, he may have perspective may be much different from what we see and know today. I would surmise that exposure as a Christian would be frowned upon by the Nazis.

David wrote: "I would surmise that exposure as a Christian would be frowned upon by the Nazis."

Yes, the Nazi regime was fundamentally hostile to historic Christianity, most obviously at first because of its demand that Jewish converts be excluded from the German church. Our common read last year, Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy, goes into this in considerable detail.

Jessica wrote: "He seems to have either greatly changed or betrayed his views later in life."

As David indicated, Bonhoeffer undoubtedly experienced spiritual growth over his life, which affected his thinking. He probably always saw pacifism as the normal or default mode of the Christian's calling; but he definitely came to believe that there are times when God calls us to a different path. The key continuity over his whole life was a radical commitment to obedience to the call of God whatever it is --not a radical commitment to pacifism as a moral ideal with independent authority of its own. I don't think he would have viewed this as a "betrayal" of his beliefs.

Great conversation. I’ve had similar feelings about Bonhoeffer. He’s often self-contradictory. That said, who among us isn’t? If our lives were laid out for the future to analyze, would any of us not seem to disagree with ourselves at some point? If we fully absorb the scriptural lessons about our fallen nature, it shouldn’t be any surprise that we all grapple with these conundrums. I shudder to think of things I believed or wrote only five years ago...and probably...in five or ten years...will feel likewise about some of my current ideas. Scripture is solid...but WE are not...so our understanding changes over time and circumstance.

Adam wrote: "Great conversation. I’ve had similar feelings about Bonhoeffer. He’s often self-contradictory. That said, who among us isn’t? If our lives were laid out for the future to analyze, would any of us n..."

Very true!

Swantje wrote: "Or try this, which I found through a Google search: https://www.cycledoctoralfactec.com/u..."

Thanks for the comments.