Classics and the Western Canon discussion

This thread is for close reading of specific passages. There is a great deal of sometimes hidden or not obvious meaning in passages which it will be useful to open up and discuss. Please cite act and scene, and where the passage you want to discussion is not lengthy, quote it if convenient.

This is also a place to ask questions about specific words, phrases, classical or other references (for example, one could ask, in Act 3 scene 3 (3.3) what is the reference and its meaning when Richard says:

Down, down I come; like glistering Phaethon,
Wanting the manage of unruly jades.

Phaethon tried to drive the chariot of his father, Helios, and failed to control it. A "jade" is a nag, an old or overworked horse.

Roger wrote: "Phaethon tried to drive the chariot of his father, Helios, and failed to control it. A "jade" is a nag, an old or overworked horse."

Correct summary. But the image may work better with a bit more background.

According to the version in Ovis, Phaethon's mother claimed that he was the son of the sun god, Phoebus, who drove the chariot of the sun across the sky. Phaethon went to Phoebus to demand whether he was really his father, and Phoebus, to prove it, promised to give Phaethon anything he wanted. Phaethon demanded to drive the chariot one day. Phoebus tried to dissuade him, knowing that the horses who drew the sun were very hard to control. But Phaethon insisted, so having promised, Phoebus allowed him. But Phoebus was right, the horses realized that Phoebus was not in the chariot and Phaethon was unable to control the unruly horses, he dropped the reins and they veered all over the sky, scorching the earth, turning Africa into desert and turning the skin of the Ethiopians black. [Interesting side note: the Greeks apparently knew that in the distant past north Africa had been a forest, but that it at some point became desert; this legend explains how.]

The earth cried out to Zeus for help, who struck Phaethon with a lightening bolt and killed him.

What I find makes the reference so relevant is that the God as sun imagery is present in the play, most particularly when Richard says (4.1)

O that I were a mockery king of snow,
Standing before the sun of Bolingbroke,
To melt myself away in water-drops!

It is the sun which Phaethon failed to control and which destroyed him, and the sun of Bolingbroke who Richard is unable to control and who destroys him. The jades, I take it, are the lords, York and the others, who he is unable to manage and who lead him to disaster.

It's a very rich image in just two lines. But that's Shakespeare!

"It's a very rich image in just two lines. But that's Shakespeare!" Everyman

Yes, and when you add in the layer of interpretation that we all bring--that we may or may not agree with all of Richard II's take on events--it gets even richer. :) Was it just his failure to manage events, or something deeper in Richard II's character, that lead to the events of the play? But maybe this belongs in the other thread....

Another good online source for finding and copying lines is www.opensourceshakespeare.com

In the first lines of the concluding play of the Henriad (though it was written before the tetralogy we are reading)is a line that picks up on the lines Everyman cites. Richard III believes (or wants us to believe) that he has triumphed after the decades of strife and warfare documented in the other plays. He chooses the sun image --and the sun/son pun--to introduce himself:

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Richard III Act I Scene i

I really appreciate Everyman calling this to our attention. Trying to manage "unruly jades" is a perfect summary of the travails of Kings in all of these plays!

I didn't know that 'jade' meant a horse. I always thought that it mean a 'bad' woman. ie 'you unfaithful jade!' or 'you common jade'.

I read that passage as refering to the Lords as a bunch of unpleasant women. A terrible insult...

Ah, it means both. Being a Georgette Heyer fan I've always seen it used the other way.


jade2


/dʒeɪd/


noun
archaic

noun: jade; plural noun: jades



1.



a bad-tempered or disreputable woman.




2.



an old or worn-out horse.



Origin

late Middle English: of unknown origin.

Nicola wrote: "I didn't know that 'jade' meant a horse. I always thought that it mean a 'bad' woman. ie 'you unfaithful jade!'"

Unabridged M-W has three definitions, two noun, one verb. The relevant noun is here, but it looks to me as if "jaded" as a verb may have preceded the noun, indicating the wearing down of a horse (which put the responsibility in the user's hands, not the beast itself -- delicious irony embedded in the language):


1jade
noun
plural -s
1: a broken-down, vicious, or worthless horse : plug

2a : a low or shrewish woman : wench, termagant
b : a flirtatious girl : minx

Origin of JADE
Middle English
First Known Use: 14th century (sense 1)

Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged, s.v. “jade,” accessed November 26, 2014, http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com.

Act II Scene 1 includes a celebrated speech by John of Gaunt. It is widely excerpted in England as a patriotic hymn comparing England to Eden. However, it is an example of a speech which taken out of context means something quite different than it means in the play.

In the early parts of the scene John is reflecting on his impending death and hopeful that, as the words of a dying man, his message to Richard might be taken to heart. The speech is actually delivered before Richard arrives. As such, I think it is intended for the audience more than Richard; Being present, York hears the words and I wonder if they do not influence him to defect to Bolingbroke.

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home,
For Christian service and true chivalry,
As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry,
Of the world's ransom, blessed Mary's Son,
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
Like to a tenement or pelting farm.

Nearly twenty lines of descriptive introduction driven forward by the repetition of the word "this," all lead to a shocking predicate.

Richard has reduced England from a "demi Eden" to a tenement or pelting [paltry] farm.

The first section is filled with images of nature (the rocky shore,the womb of kings, the blessed plot, protected by Nature against infections). In the closing lines of indictment, these are contrasted with legalisms (inky blots and rotten parchment).

England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
How happy then were my ensuing death!

In short, Nature's protection has been undermined by Richard. The island was strong enough to deter Neptune, but is being destroyed from within.

I can't say that I am certain about John's motivation here. Perhaps others will have ideas.

Zeke wrote: "Act II Scene 1 includes a celebrated speech by John of Gaunt. It is widely excerpted in England as a patriotic hymn comparing England to Eden. However, it is an example of a speech which taken out ..."

This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
. . . .

Ironic, since the deposition of Richard will set off the Wars of the Roses, bringing the infection of war to the sceptered isle.

This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
. . . .

Perhaps more irony--the Wars produced a superfluity of kings, all fighting each other.

The play seems to say that the deposition and murder of the rightful annointed King Richard, weak and profligate and vacillating though he was, was a kind of original sin that brought destruction to England. In ACT IV Scene 1 the Bishop of Carlisle gives a speech predicting all the horrors that will result from Henry's usurpation, and is arrested for treason (though forgiven in Act V, Henry being not really a bad bloke).

Richard II 1.4 20-36


He is our cousin, cousin; but 'tis doubt,
When time shall call him home from banishment,
Whether our kinsman come to see his friends.


I believe here Richard, while speaking to Aumerle, is wondering whether or not Bolingbroke will consider them friends upon his return from banishment.


Ourself and Bushy, Bagot here and Green
Observed his courtship to the common people;
How he did seem to dive into their hearts
With humble and familiar courtesy,


Bolingbroke establishes himself as a nobleman of the people as opposed to putting himself on a pedestal supported by a pillar of divine right.


What reverence he did throw away on slaves,
Wooing poor craftsmen with the craft of smiles
And patient underbearing of his fortune,
As 'twere to banish their affects with him.
Off goes his bonnet to an oyster-wench;
A brace of draymen bid God speed him well
And had the tribute of his supple knee,
With 'Thanks, my countrymen, my loving friends;'


Richard refers to the people as "slaves" regardless of their actual legal status. He seems to think that wooing the populace as a friend is beneath him.


As were our England in reversion his,
And he our subjects' next degree in hope.


Does Richard foreshadow how quickly the people turn their loyalties to Bolingbroke upon his "triumphal" return?

John wrote: "Ourself and Bushy, Bagot here and Green
Observed his courtship to the common people;
How he did seem to dive into their hearts
With humble and familiar courtesy,


Bolingbroke establishes himself as a nobleman of the people as opposed to putting himself on a pedestal supported by a pillar of divine right. "

Nice point. Emphasized later as he enters London, in 5.2

So many greedy looks of young and old
Through casements darted their desiring eyes
Upon his visage, and that all the walls
With painted imagery had said at once
'Jesu preserve thee! welcome, Bolingbroke!'
Whilst he, from the one side to the other turning,
Bareheaded, lower than his proud steed's neck,
Bespake them thus: 'I thank you, countrymen:'
And thus still doing, thus he pass'd along.

But, we have to watch the next three plays, will he remain a populist, or will he seek the authority of divine right once he is on the throne?

I have not read them yet nor do I know the history so I look forward to finding out. I have finished my first read through, now I am going back for a bit more depth instead of skipping ahead.

Wasn't Act III, Scene IV {Langley. The Duke of York's Garden.} a perfect change of pace?

An almost pastoral setting. Also, it put me in mind of Peter's Seller's movie Being There in which the gardener, seemingly speaking of plants and nature's cycles, was really speaking of political philosophy.

How nicely done! So you saw it, too, yes... but indulge me...writing it out helps me understand the play better. This scene was SO nicely done and worth re-reading, I think.

No spoilers. But lengthy. (view spoiler)[

Gardener:

Go, bind up thou yon dangling apricocks,
Which, like unruly children, make their sire
Stoop with oppression of the prodigal weight: 30.

That "apricocks" grabbed my attention. I suspected that apricots were probably a fruit only for the rich. I googled, and indeed, apricots used to be very difficult to grow in England.

In combination with "sire" and "unruly children," I then bethought me that the apricocks might well be referring to the sons and grandsons of Edward III.

IE, Henry Bolingbroke. Perhaps. It fits well except for that "prodigal weight"... I don't see how "prodigal" fits, although the weight of Bolingbroke is certainly pulling down the throne. ??


edit added: ? Perhaps it means that Edward Iii was too prolific/too wasteful wirh his seed?? Having had, perhaps?? TOO many sons? The sap of the tree wasteful spent in too many branches.



Give some supportance to the bending twigs.

[Richard, I think, is the twig... not grown as strong as the un-trimmed Bolingbroke... but Richard is from the main branch and must be supported until he grows as he should.]

Go thou, and like an executioner,
Cut off the heads of too fast growing sprays,
That look too lofty in our commonwealth:
All must be even in our government. 32-36

And if I'm reading that right, that would be saying, yes?, that Bolingbroke, an off-shoot, a spray---not a main branch--- has grown too fast... too tall.

That Richard should execute him, should cut off Bolingbroke's head, that Richard must needs keep the nobles in his kingdom about even... so that none is in a position to try to grab power on his own.

You thus employ'd, I will go root away
The noisome weeds, which without profit suck
The soil's fertility from wholesome flowers. 37-39

The hangers-on. If the gardener is supporting the king, then the flower of England is Richard... and Bushy, Bagot, and Green, etc. do nothing but take.

Servant: Why should we in the compass of a pale
Keep law and form and due proportion,
Showing, as in a model, our firm estate,
When our sea-walled garden [and I think back to John of Gaunt's speech][How nicely interwoven] , the whole land,
Is full of weeds, her fairest flowers choked up, Her fruit-trees [the descendants of Edward III] all unpruned, her hedges ruined,
Her knots disorder'd and her wholesome herbs
Swarming with caterpillars?

[Shakespeare had introduced the image of the branches of the tree/the sons of Edward III back in Act I, Scene I:

The Duchess of Gloucester to John of Gaunt:

Edward's seven sons, whereof thyself art one,
Were as seven vials of his sacred blood,
Or seven fair branches springing from one root:


In Act II, scene iii, line 166-ish:

Bolingbroke: To Bristol castle, which they say is held/
By Bushy, Bagot and their complices,
The caterpillars of the commonwealth.

I just loved how Shakespeare brought them back in as caterpillars again.

Gardener: Hold thy peace:
He that hath suffer'd this disorder'd spring
[Richard did not leave for Ireland until the end of May 1399]

Hath now himself met with the fall of leaf:
The weeds which his broad-spreading leaves did shelter,
That seem'd in eating him to hold him up,
Are pluck'd up root and all by Bolingbroke,
I mean the Earl of Wiltshire, Bushy, Green.

[Richard comes to shore in northern Wales in August 1399. Parliament was called into session Sept 13, 1399...to look into the Thomas of Woodstock murder.]

And that last bit is so nice, too:

Gardener: O, what pity is it
That he had not so trimm'd and dress'd his land
As we this garden! We at time of year
Do wound the bark, the skin of our fruit-trees[Edward's descendants],

Lest, being over-proud in sap and blood,
With too much riches it confound itself......


superfluous branches,
We lop away, that bearing boughs may live.

(hide spoiler)]

So maybe Richard should have followed the Ottoman custom of having all his brothers and nephews strangled on coming to the throne.

Adelle wrote: "Wasn't Act III, Scene IV {Langley. The Duke of York's Garden.} a perfect change of pace?

An almost pastoral setting. Also, it put me in mind of Peter's Seller's movie Being There in which the..."

That's a wonderful coincidence for me, Adelle, I was thinking of that film at the weekend and could not remember the title at all, or who the lead actor was. It's an interesting comparison too, as the gardener there is so peaceful and at rest, which is something that Richard II isn't.

I am not sure if it is relevant in this passage but in this time apricots had a sexual connotation, women in pregnancy were supposed to crave them.

Roger wrote: "So maybe Richard should have followed the Ottoman custom of having all his brothers and nephews strangled on coming to the throne."

Such a dilemma, eh? You need enough so that o e or two can perish...and still there will be an heir.... but once succession is established.... how to get rid of the excess?

Clari wrote: "apricots.
cravings.."

Interesting. Will mull that over.

Geoffrey Chaucer was an associate of Richard II (I'm only now learning this), and apparently he may have had a hand in the devising of arena for a jousting tournament which Richard sponsored, which is echoed in the description of the tourney in the Knight's Tale in Canterbury Tales.

As I'm reading Chaucer now, it seems Shakespeare must have found a lot of inspiration in him for various works. One sentiment expressed in Knights Tale, I notice, is also expressed in Shakespeare's Richard II, though I'm not claiming it's the "source," only that I see them both expressing a similar idea:

---Shakespeare----

KING RICHARD. Why, uncle, thou has many years to live.

GAUNT. But not a minute, king, that thou canst give: Shorten my days thous canst with sullen sorrow, And pluck nights from me, but not lend a morrow; Thou can'st help time to furrow me with age, But stop no wrinkle in his pilgrimage; Thy word is current with him for my death, But dead, thy kingdom cannot buy my breath.

---Chaucer---

...That same prince and that Moevere', quod he,
'Hath stabliced in this wrecched world adoun
Certeine dayes and duracioun
To al that is engendred in this place,
Over the which day they may nat pace,
Al mowe they yet tho dayes wel abregge.
Ther nedeth noon auctoritee t'allege,
For it is proved by experience...'

That is, God has set a limit in time for everything, and we don't have power to go beyond that limit, yet we can surely abridge our time, i.e., we can take away from what is granted, but not add to it.

Which is a kind of radical philosophy, actually, colliding fatality with free will (as Chaucer derived from his reading of Boethius).