The Old Curiosity Club discussion

Chapter 48

Hello Curiosities

I have the pleasure of sitting in for Tristram this week. Next week, we will conclude our study of Martin Chuzzlewit. There is much yet to resolve. There will be some plot threads that you will have suspected that will be confirmed. Hopefully, there will still be some surprises and revelations as well.

The chapter begins in a sea of tranquillity which contrasts with the hurried and unsettling events of chapter 47. For those of you who have found the chapters of Ruth and Tom tasting a bit too sugary, get ready, for this chapter opens with another scene of perfect domestic and family bliss.Tom and his sister are enjoying a quiet morning before Tom heads off to work. We learn that Ruth now has two students she tutors and has turned her artistic talents of painting screens and card racks into a small cottage industry. Now both are involved in supporting their household arrangements. We learn that their landlord has not been home since he involved Tom in that “unsatisfactory scrape” with Jonas. Ruth concurs that Nadgett does indeed have a mysterious life.

A knock comes to their door and it is none other than Martin Chuzzlewit and Mark Tapley. Tom introduces his sister to them. Here we see Dickens continuing to bring the good characters together. We see Martin has become a much more aware person and much less self-absorbed and learn that Mark has thoughts along a “matrimonial line.” It appears his intended will be none other than Mrs Lupin. Martin thanks Tom for being such a stalwart man in taking care of Mary while he was away. Tom then learns that Martin is looking for employment in London so he can be worthy of Mary. Rather than sulking or being bitter, Tom encourages Martin to look on the bright side and offers to help Martin look for a job by introducing him to John Westlake and so off Tom, Mark, and Martin go to see John Westlake.


Thoughts


For those who find Dickens somewhat saccharine at times, these opening paragraphs will be a bit too much. Beneath the surface, however, much is revealed. The opening scene of Tom and Ruth anticipate the union and happiness of other couples in the novel. How might this information become increasingly important in the remaining chapters?


Generally, John Westlake is overjoyed to see Tom. On this day, however, there is a “mysterious stranger” in his rooms, a person John makes sure the others do not see. John was, of course, delighted to see the others, but does tell Martin his mystery visitor is a person who is more “immediately demanding your knowledge than mine.” Thus, John asks Martin to remain with him after Tom goes to work. As Mark accompanies Tom to work Mark again recounts his philosophy of life. To me, it seems that Mark both talks about and lives by his philosophy. Tom simply lives his good life without having to apply any nagging philosophy. Meanwhile, John and Martin converse in private and we see how much Martin has matured as he candidly and completely acknowledges that his earlier treatment of Tom was wrong.

Martin then learns from John the circumstances of John’s earlier attendance of the patient at the Bull and of Tom’s activities at the wharf. Having recounted these two stories John invites Martin into another room where John introduces him to Lewsome, the man who had been ill at the Bull.

Lewsome’s secret is that he believes he is at least partially responsible for Anthony Chuzzlewit’s death. Lewsome recounts that he was a surgeon, became acquainted with Jonas Chuzzlewit, and had often heard Jonas wish his old father dead. Lewsome gambled with Jonas and mostly lost to him. Jonas then lent Lewsome money at interest and thus, over time, became his master. One evening Jonas told Lewsome that he often thought of mixing something into Anthony’s cough medicine that would kill him. On another occasion Jonas commented that he wanted two types of drugs, one that would be instantaneous in its power, and one that would be slower in killing a patient. Jonas claimed he wanted such drugs only for cats.

Lewsome acquired the drugs for Jonas, and a few night’s later Anthony Chuzzlewit was dead. John Westlake mentions that the guilt of Jonas must be known by others who could use it for their own benefit. John Westlake connects the dots on what Tom has accidentally witnessed on the docks. Neither John or Martin yet know how all the parts of the puzzle fit. They only know that Tom’s landlord is somehow connected but no one seems to ever know where he is or what he does.


Thoughts


To what extent do these latest revelations fit into your own suspicions of what happened to Anthony Chuzzlewit?

How might the combination of John Westlake and Martin Chuzzlewit be helpful in the unravelling of our mystery?


With the information that Martin has just learned one might think he would have some leverage with his own father. Martin knows, however, that if he does go to see his grandfather with his suspicions Pecksniff would see such actions in a “despicable light” and yet if Martin does not go to his grandfather then Martin believes that such an action would make him a “partner in guilt.” It is decided that since Lewsome and Chuffey never met the next logical step would be to visit with Chuffey. Surely he could also shed some light on past events. As readers, we are in a unique position because we are already privy to what has appeared to be some earlier rambling comments of Chuffey. It is at this point that the others hear from Tom of the strange behaviour of “the decayed clerk, on the night of the tea party.” The question for the men then becomes how to get to Chuffey without tipping their hand to Jonas or other potentially interested parties. It is at this point that Tom points out that Mrs Gamp once had control of him.

John Westlake knew of Mrs Gamp because he had once given her employment, and he knows where she lives because she had given him one of her professional cards. Martin then writes a letter to the famous Grammar School stating that it was he and not Pecksniff who was the creator of the successful design. Then Martin sets out to find accommodation for himself and Mark. And so ends a very busy day and another very lengthy chapter.


Thoughts


Are you enjoying how Dickens brings what once seemed to be totally unconnected people, events and facts together like we have witnessed in this chapter? To what extent do you find his plot manipulations too contrived or unbelievable?

In this chapter we see Dickens continue to round the jagged edges of young Martin Chuzzlewit’s character. Do you find your feelings towards Martin shifting or changing as well?

It appears that Jonas may well be a murderer. How surprised are you? As a character is he comparable to Sikes, Fagin, or Quilp?

Chapter 49

Well, fellow Curiosities, here comes another chapter of some length, some mystery, some confusion and even some sorrow.

First, Dickens begins the chapter with another of his wonderful descriptions of a person’s home. This time, we visit Mrs Gamp’s residence where we are told that “to a contented mind, a closet is a palace.” In Gamp’s case, here home is closer to a closet, but certainly one big enough to hold a large umbrella and a busy teapot. The bedstead was the central, and almost only, piece of furniture of note. Some of Gamp’s gowns hung from the bed which induced one gentleman coming to as her help in a birth that these clothes looked like guardian angels watching over her in her sleep. Her chairs were also oversized and her bandboxes excessive. Of most interest, perhaps, were three profile pictures. One was of herself in younger days, one of her deceased husband and one of a lady who is allegedly Mrs Harris.

Sweedlepipes comes to her door with the news that young Bailey is dead. According to Sweedlepipes, he and Montague were upset on a journey. Bailey was alive, but died soon after. Montague has not been found. The master of Tiggs’s office in the city has gone off with the money and is being searched for, their office has been revealed as “a smash; a swindle altogether.” Jonas Chuzzlewit’s name was not listed as one of the board of the company and nothing can be proved against him. Indeed, Jonas has already complained that he has been swindled. At this point Mrs Prig arrives, notes the topic under discussion, but professes more interest in having a meal.


Thoughts


This information sheds much light on recent events. Can there be any doubt what Jonas was doing when he left London? Were you surprised that he would be capable of murder? Did you think him capable of killing a child?

What would the collapse of the Life Assurance Office mean to its many investors? Do you think Dickens was making a larger social comment in this event, or just writing fiction?

To what extent did you see Mrs Gamp’s rooms as being an extension and reflection of her personality?


Mrs Gamp and Mrs Prig seem to be at odds during their tea. Perhaps they are a bit in their teacups, or perhaps the salmon was not big enough. In any case, their conversation turns to that of Chuffey. Mrs Gamp expresses the opinion that Chuffey may not be as weak in the mind as others think.she also mentions that Chuffey’s friends have asked her if she would look after him full time at her own price. Gamp says she could only do that for her friend Mrs Harris but would certainly be willing to accept the job if she could split the duties with Mrs Prig. And then - and it must have been the liquor in the teapot - Mrs Prig says “I don’t believe there’s such a person!” With this accusation you can well imagine the flurry of feelings which I will not attempt to recount. Suffice to say, Mrs Prig exits and says she will have nothing to do with Chuffey. After Mrs Prig’s exit comes the entrance of John Westlake and young Martin Chuzzlewit. As the chapter ends Mrs Gamp refreshes herself with some restorative tea.


Thoughts

Before we look at why John and Martin have come to see Mrs Gamp - although I suspect you may know why already - let’s look at the Prig - Gamp dust up. Why might Dickens have incorporated this event into the plot?

Like Mrs Prig, do you believe Mrs Harris is a phantom of Mrs Gamp’s mind? Actually, if Mrs Harris does not exist, why has Dickens included so much about her into the novel?


John and Martin offer solace to Mrs Gamp as she still fumes over Mrs Prig. Slowly, Gamp settles down and John Westlake nudges her to consider finding an assistant to replace Mrs Prig. Gamp readies herself to head out to work. Before she does she nods off to sleep again due, no doubt, to a combination of too much work, too much time with her tea pot, and too little time sleeping. As the chapter ends John and Martin feel confident that they will be able to count on Mrs Gamp to work with them against Jonas Chuzzlewit.


Thoughts


Consider all the knowledge that Mrs Gamp has about the inner workings of the Anthony Chuzzlewit/Jonas Chuzzlewit homes. Why will she be such a valuable asset to John and Martin. What can she reveal?

Is there, in fact, any other person in the novel who can offer as much insight into the Chuzzlewit’s as Mrs Gamp?

How reliable will such information be?

Chapter 50

This chapter opens on a domestic note with Tom and his sister sitting for tea. We are told (once again) how much John Westlake is drawn to Ruth. There seems, however, to be a cloud hanging over the Pinch’s happy home. Their domestic evening is further clouded with the arrival of Martin who has a strange appearance. He seems agitated. In fact, Martin says that Tom has had an “ungenerous dealing” with him. Such words as “honesty,” “friendship,” “worthy,” and then “turned against me” are hurled at Tom. Martin’s tone was one of “strong injury” and Tom, in response is what are you talking about Martin? To cap it all off Martin says “I warn you that you will deeply regret the wrong you do to me.” OK. Enough is enough, Martin. Tom remains as calm as possible, but Martin continues to ramp up his accusations and name-calling. Finally, Tom points out that within all of Martin’s words, no reason for them has been spoken. Martin then says he hope Tom’s choice was “rash” and that Martin will choose to believe the choice was nothing more. Martin then leaves.

Ruth then tells Tom that she is aware of his “secret heart.” To Ruth, her brother has been the opposite of Martin’s accusations. She sees Tom as being “faithful ... true ... self-denying ... kind ... even-tempered.” What is this all about? While her name is never spoken, Martin’s anger and Ruth’s awareness is the same. Tom loves Mary, who is betrothed to Martin. What follows is a very interesting comment from Tom, one in which I will quote here:

“You think of me ... as if I were a character in a book; and you make it a sort of poetical justice that I should, by some impossible means or other, come, at last, to marry the person I love.... People who read about heroes in books, and choose to make heroes of themselves out of books, consider it a very fine thing to be discontented and gloomy, and misanthropical, and perhaps a little blasphemous, because they cannot have everything ordered for their individual accommodation.”

Tom concludes his meditation with the idea that by thinking and knowing that there is love and kindness aplenty around makes him more aware of the world and helps soften himself to the world.


Thoughts


To what extent was Martin in the right to speak to Tom as he did?

Why do you think Dickens did not have Martin express himself more directly by mentioning Mary’s name during his conversation with Tom?

Ruth, too, has been aware, but silent, about Tom’s feelings towards Mary. Was Ruth wrong not to address herself and her opinions to Tom earlier in the novel?

What are your thoughts of Tom’s explanation about how he looks upon Mary, himself, and his role and position in the world?

Is it me or did you also find, perhaps faintly, in this exchange between Martin and Tom, a hint of Sydney Carton and Charles Darnay from A Tale of Two Cities?


When I initially read this chapter I found it melodramatic and a wee bit over the top in sentimentality. On reflection, I see it as a key comment from Dickens on the nature of courtship and marital relations. Consider all the couples we have in the novel: Jonas and Merry, Cherry and Moodle, (Cherry and almost Jonas), John and Ruth, Mrs Lupin and Mark, the couples in Eden, and Martin and Mary. How does one define a true relationship? What constitutes true love? Did you notice the number of widowers/singles in the novel? Pecksniff, Anthony Chuzzlewit, Martin Chuzzlewit senior, Sweedlepipes, Nadgett, Montague Tiggs, the single men in America and Mrs Todgers among others. Do you think there is any pattern here, any meaning, or do we simply have a large numbers of characters in the novel?


Tom proceeds to his place of work and we learn that he has almost completed his organization, repair, and cataloguing of the books. As he works he hears footsteps on the stairs. Nearer and nearer the steps come. Tom arises from his chair and thinks he sees a spirit at the door, but no, it is old Martin Chuzzlewit looking healthy and hearty. He is Tom’s secret employer. As the chapter rounds to a close we learn from Martin senior that he has always been monitoring events at Pecksniff’s, that Martin senior is aware of the hypocrisy, evil, and lustful nature of Pecksniff and that now it is time for the tide to turn and correct the wrongs of the past.

The chapter ends with Tom not sure whether he is awake or in the middle of a dream.


Thoughts


Here we have one of the main mysteries of the novel answered. Did you think old Martin was Tom’s benefactor? If so, what were the earlier hints? If not, how surprised are you?

With the revelation that old Martin has been keenly aware of all of Pecksniff’s foibles, what do you suspect will occur next?

At the beginning of this chapter we had young Martin upbraiding Tom as being, at least, unreliable and not to be fully trusted. At the conclusion of the chapter we see Tom with old Martin and shown and recognized to be completely trustworthy and honourable. What does this dichotomy suggest about Tom, Martin junior, and Martin senior?


Reflections


We are nearing the end of the novel and I still wonder why the title is Martin Chuzzlewit. Does this refer to senior or junior or both? I don’t think it too much of a spoiler if we identified some couples who will be united and live happy lives forever. We still, however, have to deal with the likes of Jonas and Pecksniff. I think the novel has picked up in pace and focus this past week but wonder if that is because we are so close to the end of the novel that Dickens is obliged to focus the various strands of the text more closely to one another.

I look forward to the final chapters. There is much to discuss about this novel as a whole and how it fits into the canon of Dickens’s novels.

The pace certainly ramped up these chapters!

In chapters 48 and 49 I started to like Martin better. His better judgement seemed to last. And oh, then came chapter 50! Where he only one day before acknowledged how bad he used Tom, he now rained down on Tom without thinking about what he said. To be honest, I think I wouldn't remain as calm as Tom did - I'd probably have shouted back, and that would've made things worse. Meanwhile, all my ire and blood boiling annoyance at Martin Jr.'s address is back. Dickens did show pretty well that those turnarounds of character never are so completely, totally final that there is no falling back though. And I do hope Martin Jr. will come to his senses again.

I was still thinking about Tom's employer being either Martin Sr. or John. I do like that it is Martin Sr. though, and I am very curious to read on and find out why he did all this!

Oh, and I must have read over Jonas also killing young Bailey, apart from him being present when the coach crashed. Did it happen somewhere near where he was drinking ale on his way back from murdering Tiggs?

Peter wrote: "Chapter 48...

I don't dislike Jonas any less, thinking that he only wanted to poison cats. Jerk.

I haven't given deep consideration to the nuts and bolts of the thing, but it seems to me that with a little tweaking Lewsome could have been omitted as a character. Perhaps he lent some mystery to the tale, but I feel as if he hasn't really been incorporated very well. For me (so far, at least) he's been a convenient addition to tie some loose threads together. At least it's obvious, from his mysterious appearance earlier on, that Dickens planned for him, and didn't just insert him now that we're nearing the end.

Peter wrote: "Chapter 49 ...“to a contented mind, a closet is a palace.” ..."

I actually liked this quote enough to include it in my quote book. You won't be surprised to know that Dickens is well represented there. :-)

Poor Bailey! I was sorry that he didn't pull through. We seem to be at odds about his death. Like Jantine, I don't consider Jonas directly responsible for his death -- more like collateral damage. I went back and reread that scene: the horses were spooked, the carriage tipped, throwing Bailey off and causing his fatal injuries. If anything, Tigg could be considered more responsible as he didn't want to be left alone with Jonas, so prevented the driver from riding ahead with Bailey. So his death wasn't at Jonas's hands, but the circumstances he and Tigg set in motion surely led to it.

The interchange between Betsey and Sairey is one of my favorite Dickens scenes. I remember the first time I read Betsey's pronouncement, "Bother Mrs. Harris! I don't believe there's no sich a person!" When she did the finger snap, I thought I'd bust! And Sairey's indignation! Priceless!

The print I found in an antique store depicts this scene (and I was delighted to note that Mrs. Gamp's clothes were on the bedpost, and the three profiles were shown on the mantlepiece). There was some discussion the first time I shared it as to which lady was which. The artist didn't include Betsey's beard, but he did depict this:

...her countenance became about this time derisive and defiant, and ... she sat with her arms folded and one eye shut up, in a somewhat offensive, because obtrusively intelligent, manner."

Betsey's one eye is, indeed, closed up more than the other. That would confirm our suspicions that Betsey is on our left, while Sairey prevents her from helping herself to more "tea" :-)

https://www.goodreads.com/photo/user/...

I hope that Kim is able to find other pictures of this scene!

Peter wrote: "Chapter 50..."

I've been trying to remember if, since Pickwick Dickens has treated us to this kind of ... what's the word? Not really a comedy of errors, employed to great effect in farces. But this misunderstanding. Hmm, can't think of the word I want.... At any rate, Martin has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and Tom, not yet knowing who his employer is, has misconstrued Martin's feelings of betrayal. No comedy here, though - just confusion and hurt feelings all around. But we're fond of Tom, and have warmed up to Martin, and I think most of us would agree that we'd like to see this misunderstanding corrected so their friendship can continue.

As for the revelation at the chapter's end - what a cliffhanger! I can't wait to see what Martin, Sr. has been up to! And I wish I had Tom here to organize all my stuff.

Jantine wrote: "The pace certainly ramped up these chapters!

In chapters 48 and 49 I started to like Martin better. His better judgement seemed to last. And oh, then came chapter 50! Where he only one day before ..."

Hi Jantine

Yes. The Martin-Tom confrontation was quite unsettling. I, too, wonder how Tom keep his cool. I wonder what percentage of the readers of this scene would blame Tom for being more forthright and aggressive in his own defence? The fact that Tom once decked Jonas was a curious plot point for Dickens, but it did bring Tom into favour with Cherry, and did make readers happy to see Jonas get some comeuppance earlier in the novel.

As for young Bailey, he was certainly seriously injured but is he dead? :-)

Mary Lou wrote: "Peter wrote: "Chapter 48...

I don't dislike Jonas any less, thinking that he only wanted to poison cats. Jerk.

I haven't given deep consideration to the nuts and bolts of the thing, but it seems..."

Hi Mary Lou

Yes. The character of Lewsome seemed rather tacked on to me as well. It did create a bit of mystery (what/why/who) as to John’s tending an unknown sick person Perhaps Lewsome will make another appearance in the novel and have more information to reveal. We shall see.

Thank you for posting the link to your picture. It is a grand work that captures our Mrs Gamp very well. Like you, I also made special note of her philosophy that “to a contented mind a closet is a palace.” When we moved back to Toronto from Victoria we “downsized” considerably. We do not live in a closet yet, but did have to trim many of our belongings. As I look around our living room now I see blocks, a ball, and a musical book that belong to our grandson. My wife and I would be quite happy to live in a closet as long as we could be close to him, and, of course, our daughter. :-)

Peter wrote: "As for young Bailey, he was certainly seriously injured but is he dead? :-) ..."

Uh oh... are you implying that Pol Sweedlepipe is an unreliable gossip? Or is there more deception in our midst? Seems like that may be becoming a theme of this book! Something to explore in our wrap up discussion.

Mary Lou wrote: "Peter wrote: "As for young Bailey, he was certainly seriously injured but is he dead? :-) ..."

Uh oh... are you implying that Pol Sweedlepipe is an unreliable gossip? Or is there more deception in..."

Ah, stay tuned. :-)

Uh oh indeed. I admit I believed Pol immediately, but he also seems to be a gossip indeed. I do hope you are right, Peter, since I did like Bailey.

And I loved the scene of Betsy and Gamp too, including that particular quote. It just dawned upon me that it also is another contrast; Sarah Gamp, in her closet of a room, working day and night, is content and has people around her like Pol, who wish her well. On the other hand Merry, married to Jonas for money, living in a spacious house, but where Gamp's room comes across as warm, light (even if only mentally, cramped full as it is) and cozy, the house Merry lives in is too big, empty-ish, cold and dark, and it comes across as a place full of fear and gloom every time.

Perhaps it is not what Dickens meant at all, but to me it says 'you can better be alone and poor and content, than married, rich and unhappy'.

Jantine wrote: "Uh oh indeed. I admit I believed Pol immediately, but he also seems to be a gossip indeed. I do hope you are right, Peter, since I did like Bailey.

And I loved the scene of Betsy and Gamp too, inc..."

Hi Jantine

Dickens always has a rabbit or two that he pulls from his hat in the closing chapters.

I agree with your comments about how rooms and their inhabitants are so intimately connected. It’s not just that a person lives in a specific room, but how both the room and the person evolve to become organically and psychologically connected.

Your observation that being alone, poor, and yet content is better than being married, rich and unhappy repeats itself in many different ways throughout Dickens. It is a powerful trope and a recurring truth.

In Chapter 50, I was somewhat confused by Martin's remarks and anger toward Tom but did he not mention Tom's choice of employer which he had found out by chance? I did not understand why Tom did not protest that he did not even know who his employer was. But that would clear up the dispute too easily, I suppose. I am anxious now to hear the resolution of this as well as several matters, especially re: Pecksniff and Jonas.

Bobbie wrote: "did he not mention Tom's choice of employer..."

He did, Bobbie! I don't have the book right in front of me, but I think he said something along the lines of "who you do business with" which is a bit more ambiguous than "employer" and it was in the middle of a rant, so I'm allowing myself to believe that that's why Tom didn't immediately pick up on it.

That's what I read into it as well, Bobbie. I read it back, because I was confused by the mention here that Martin would be angry about Tom loving Mary, and I noticed that it was not really mentioned. What was mentioned, was 'who Tom's employer were', which could have been either his current one, and then we are right in believing it is about that, but it could also have been meant as Pecksniff, and that Martin thinks Tom learned some deceiving from him.

Well, we are almost to the end and all the questions will be answered. I plan to read on as soon as I finish a short book that I am absorbed in now.

First of all, I'd like to give my thanks to Peter, who stepped in for me at a time when I have a little bit of more work than usual at my hands. It's a relief to know that this week's chapters were introduced without any delay or interruption. I must confess that I cannot really say a lot about the conversation between Martin and Tom, the one where Martin relapsed, to a certain degree, into his old patterns of behaviour and voiced his distrust of Tom - because I rather rushed through the passages when Tom, his sister, John Westlock and Martin were on the stage as the only characters. From what I gathered, Martin felt betrayed because somehow or other he had found out that Tom is working for his grandfather, a fact that Tom at the time has not been aware of.

Which brings me to another thought: Apparently, Tom owes his subsistence and survival in London to Martin senior and the old man's readiness of holding his hand over him. In other words, Tom has not been forced to fend for himself, and we might have the feeling that he wouldn't be very good at it. Interestingly, Martin junior, as long as he was fending for himself (in his decision to join Pecksniff out of spite for his grandfather, in his project concerning Eden and his going to the U.S. in the first place), is also sure to make a mess of his life. Later he goes back to see his grandfather, telling him that he is quite prepared to do honest and hard work if only his grandfather will undertake to find such work for him.

Hmm, I was asking myself, when juxtaposing these two examples, why the juvenile hero and his somewhat older sidekick in Martin Chuzzlewit are not able to stand on their own feet. One is helped through his life without knowing it, the other, after messing things up, comes back to his grandfather and looks up to him for support - support in finding work, not financial support -, but still one might ask why these people aren't able to go their own way in life. What's wrong with them, or rather with Martin junior that he can't find himself a job but needs his grandfather to do this?

Does Mrs. Harris exist? - I don't think so. She's just a much better friend to Mrs. Gamp than Mrs. Prig, not least so because she happens to hold the same opinions as the person she was invented by, and she also happens to think worlds of that self-same person.

Jonas in the context of Sikes, Fagin and Quilp.

I think that Sikes was a much more irascible, passionate and emotional man than the cowardly and mean Jonas, and when he killed Nancy, he did so in his ire, whereas Jonas seems to have poisoned his father and also committed premeditated murder on Tigg - just consider all the preparations he went through. So, for all his brutishness, Sikes may be the more likeable of those unlikeable two because he lacks those elements of cunning, of cowardice and calculation.

Quilp is such a grotesque caricature of an evil-doer that he does not invite comparison to a psychologically credible villain like Jonas. Jonas could find his way into Dostoyevsky's psychological novels, whereas Quilp could only make it into a fantasy novel or a fairy tale book.

I think that Fagin is the one who has most in common with Jonas: Both men are calculating and sly, and both men are greedy. Fagin is a coward, exploiting children and destitute women, and he would have had the same kind of pleasure that Jonas experienced when he entered the Anglo-Bengalee with the prospect of making money out of all the gullible victims out there. Fagin, like Jonas, would probably resort to poison as a murder weapon because it's the coward's weapon, but I doubt that Fagin would have enough courage to crush a man's skull like Jonas did. What violence Fagin committed, he often committed via manipulating others, like Sikes.

But all in all, I'd say that Jonas is closest to Fagin from the choice of villains given by Peter.

Tristram wrote: "Jonas in the context of Sikes, Fagin and Quilp.

I think that Sikes was a much more irascible, passionate and emotional man than the cowardly and mean Jonas, and when he killed Nancy, he did so in ..."

Tristram

Thank you for the comparison and contrast of earlier “bad/evil/violent” characters with Jonas. Each of the earlier characters - there are others I did not mention - have something in common with Jonas but I agree that Quilp is more of a fairy tale character than the others who are more psychologically interesting and have more depth of character.

As we move through the early novels Dickens is becoming much better at creating nuanced anti-social male characters. Taking a long view it will be interesting to track the progress of the “bad guys” in the future novels.

Tristram wrote: "First of all, I'd like to give my thanks to Peter..."

Yes, thank you Peter, for keeping the discussion going smoothly. Thanks to both of you for doing such a wonderful job of summarizing the action and getting us thinking about things we may have otherwise missed!

Tristram wrote: Tom owes his subsistence and survival in London to Martin senior and the old man's readiness of holding his hand over him. In other words, Tom has not been forced to fend for himself, and we might have the feeling that he wouldn't be very good at it.

Oh, I don't know.... Yes, surely Tom owes his employment to Martin, Sr., but the narrator certainly indicates that it was a job that needed doing and that Tom has been an exemplary employee. If Tom had been a slacker, would Martin have dismissed him? We'll never know, but I contend that Martin wouldn't have wanted to help him out in the first place if Tom hadn't been an upright, conscientious guy. In my experience in the 21st century US, many (if not most) jobs are obtained through networking, which is all this really is. I think Tom would have eventually landed on his feet.

As for Martin, Jr., your argument is harder to contradict, but remember that his plans for the school were used, indicating that he had some talent. At this point, it seems as if Martin, Sr. had nothing to do with that. Had they not had their falling out, perhaps Jr. would never have pursued this avenue, but his success was his own (with, ironically, a nod to Pecksniff for submitting the design as his own). So I guess I disagree with your contention that neither of these -- protagonists? -- can stand on their own two feet.

Tristram wrote: "Does Mrs. Harris exist? - I don't think so. She's just a much better friend to Mrs. Gamp than Mrs. Prig, not least so because she happens to hold the same opinions as the person she was invented by..."

I don't know if Mrs. Harris exists or not, but I'm thinking of finding a Mrs. Harris of my own. It's good to have a wise friend in my corner, who agrees with me on everything. :-) If one has both a Mrs. Harris and a Bunbury in one's life, well... who could ask for anything more? :-)

If Mrs. Harris, doesn't exist, who is in the "profile" on Sarah's mantle? Is it the picture that came with the frame? Ha!

A side note -- I was reminded that JK Rowling writes in Harry Potter about "Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration". To quote the text:

"Your mother can’t produce food out of thin air, no one can. Food is the first of the five Principal Exceptions to Gamp’s Law of Elemental Transfiguration... It’s impossible to make good food out of nothing! You can summon it if you know where it is, you can transform it, you can increase the quantity if you’ve already got some..."

I can't help but think that Rowling had Sarah in mind, and the way she managed to summon a meal wherever she went. :-)

Tristram wrote: "Jonas in the context of Sikes, Fagin and Quilp.
..."

I tend to agree with you here, Tristram. Sikes - horrible as he was - killed Nancy in a fit of passion and self-preservation. Jonas's crimes were much more calculated and premeditated, and based on greed.

I don't want to step on Kim's toes, but I came across another depiction of Sarah and Betsey having "tea" and thought I'd share it. I've never yet been able to post a picture so here's a link:

https://planetpeschel.com/wp/wp-conte...

Another thing which I was just reminded of by the comment by Mary Lou above, that we still need to see Martin Jr. receive credit for his plans for the grammar school and Pecksniff being exposed for stealing it.

As for Mrs. Harris, I guess I hope that she does exist but either way, I hope we find out the truth of that.

Mary Lou wrote: "A side note -- I was reminded that JK Rowling writes in Harry Potter about "Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration". To quote the text:

"Your mother can’t produce food out of thin air, no one can..."

About those pictures that come with the frames, do you know those multi-set frames, which allow you to put a collection of photos together on a wall? My wife bought one in order to display a collection of family photos, and, of course, there were ready-made photos of models - standing in for a family - in the frames. I looked at the photos and then told my wife, "Don't bother changing these photos. The people in them look much better and happier than we do."

Strangely, my wife was not amused, but my son was.

Mary Lou wrote: "Tristram wrote: "First of all, I'd like to give my thanks to Peter..."

Yes, thank you Peter, for keeping the discussion going smoothly. Thanks to both of you for doing such a wonderful job of summ..."

Yes, Mary Lou, I forgot that Martin's plans for the grammar school were accepted and that this indicates he has a certain amount of talent and would be able to make his mark as an architect. Still, his coming back to his grandfather and asking him to find him a job grates with me. I know that it resonates with the Prodigal Son but this is one of the passages in the Bible that also go against the grain with me because it is unfair with regard to the elder son. In Martin's case, there is no elder brother, and he has really and truly suffered a lot and changed his attitudes, but still ...

As to Tom, I had the feeling that this business of cleaning up the library was a task that was especially created for Tom. Probably, the old man had had that abandoned library rotting for years, and had it not been for Tom, he would never have thought of cleaning it up. I don't know ... But you are right: Networks are important in job life, and Tom would surely have got another place with the help of Westlock.

Tristram wrote: "Mary Lou wrote: "Strangely, my wife was not amused, but my son was."

Once again I am left wondering how she puts up with you.

Hey it worked! I actually posted an illustration from my phone and it only took me about ten minutes! Thanks Mary Lou for putting the link there. Now I'm off to try another one!

 From The Life of Charles Dickens by John Forster:

In construction and conduct of story Martin Chuzzlewit is defective, character and description constituting the chief part of its strength. But what it lost as a story by the American episode it gained in the other direction; young Martin, by happy use of a bitter experience, casting off his slough of selfishness in the poisonous swamp of Eden. Dickens often confessed, however, the difficulty it had been to him to have to deal with this gap in the main course of his narrative; and I will give an instance from a letter he wrote to me when engaged upon the number in which Jonas brings his wife to her miserable home.

"I write in haste" (28th of July 1843), "for I have been at work all day; and, it being against the grain with me to go back to America when my interest is strong in the other parts of the tale, have got on but slowly. I have a great notion to work out with Sydney's favourite, and long to be at him again."

But obstructions of this kind with Dickens measured only and always the degree of readiness and resource with which he rose to meet them, and never had his handling of character been so masterly as in Chuzzlewit. The persons delineated in former books had been more agreeable, but never so interpenetrated with meanings brought out with a grasp so large, easy, and firm. As well in this as in the passionate vividness of its descriptions, the imaginative power makes itself felt. The windy autumn night, with the mad desperation of the hunted leaves and the roaring mirth of the blazing village forge; the market-day at Salisbury; the winter walk, and the coach journey to London by night; the ship voyage over the Atlantic; the stormy midnight travel before the murder, the stealthy enterprise and cowardly return of the murderer; these are all instances of first-rate description, original in the design, imaginative in all the detail, and very complete in the execution. But the higher power to which I direct attention is even better discerned in the persons and dialogue. With nothing absent or abated in its sharp impressions of reality, there are more of the subtle requisites which satisfy reflection and thought. We have in this book for the most part, not only observation but the outcome of it, the knowledge as well as the fact. While we witness as vividly the life immediately passing, we are more conscious of the permanent life above and beyond it. Nothing nearly so effective therefore had yet been achieved by him. He had scrutinised as truly and satirised as keenly; but had never shown the imaginative insight with which he now sent his humour and his art into the core of the vices of the time.

Mrs. Gamp proposes a toast

Chapter 49

Phiz

Commentary:

 Mrs. Gamp propoges a toast, is the third and last to feature Sairey Gamp in person. This famous illustration, depicting the moment immediately preceding the apostasy of Betsey Prig [the moment which Fred Barnard in the Household Edition chose instead is by and large a faithful reproduction of Dickens' description of the scene, down to the bursting bandboxes, the pattens, the pictures over the mantel, the umbrella, and the garments looking like a hanged double of Sairey.

Perhaps nowhere else in Phiz's narrative-pictorial sequence for t Martin Chuzzlewit did the text so stimulate his imagination. Inspired by the prose, Phiz describes not merely the outward and visible signs of the two sick-room nurses, but he also captures their milieu and ultimately the essence of the immortal Sairey herself. Phiz, who has realised every detail from Dickens's accompanying text, depicts the two nurses in proper relation to every detail, right down to the central object not merely of the room but of Sairey's inner life, the convivial teapot, the sacred chalice under whose influence Sairey's alcohol-tinged syllables take flight into the aether of world literature. She is here, like her visual and verbal creators, a great inimitable, doubled by the dresses that like angelic facsimile Saireys hover as attendants above their substantial original.

The cramped Kingsgate Street first-floor front room above Poll Sweedlepipe's barber shop is not, as we might expect, untidy, for the occupant has scrupulously prepared the room for the reception of fellow sick-room nurse Betsey Prig. The two nurses cement their mutual amity as they raise their glasses (which they have just taken from the open cabinet beside the fireplace) to one another. Shortly, however, their celebration of their close business and personal relationship terminates in unseemly bickering — a cataclysm caused by the imaginary friend and universal referee, Mrs. Harris. The French critic Sylvère Monod interprets this illustration as underscoring the lingering presence above the nurses of Mrs. Gamp's purely illusionary but rhetorically invaluable friend:

. . . the etching by 'Phiz' which illustrates that chapter (XLIX) and is called Mrs. Gamp propoges a toast is one of he best in the book; it is symbolical of Mrs. Harris's role in the story; for she is not a concrete presence, but the conscious reader can without difficulty imagine or almost visualize her, hovering above the two tipplers. And surely the dresses hanging from the top of the bed-frame are in sufficient number and of sufficient amplitude to clothe her; admittedly, they are Mrs Gamp's own spare dresses, but Mrs Harris herself also belongs to Mrs. Gamp and is clothed only by Mrs. Gamp's spare imaginary flights. [Monod, page 71]

In this iconic illustration, Phiz based Sairey Gamp on a French model — namely, Honoré Daumier's Sick-room Nurse ("La Garde-Malade"), which he published in the Parisian magazine Le Charivari on 22 May 1842. In the narrative-pictorial sequence for Martin Chuzzlewit it is one of the first engravings that signals Dickens's application of poetic justice to the rogues in the various plot strands. Phiz and Dickens begin their application of Nemisis with the novel's least objectionable charlatan, Mrs. Gamp, and her hypothetical friend, Mrs. Harris. Although Dickens initially aligned Sairey with the novel's blatant deceivers, confidence men, and hypocrites, the voluble alcoholic with the distinctive voice grew beyond the confines of Dickens's original sick-room nurse and midwife in the minds and hearts of generations of Victorian readers, becoming an enduring figure of Dickensian character comedy.

Dickens must have felt the necessity of exposing Mrs. Harris as a sham, but she is of a wholly different order of imposture compared to the Eden land-development and Anglo-Bengalee Life Assurance schemes. If the novelist could not bring himself to explode Sairey, nevertheless he must have felt that he could at least explode Mrs. Harris and rupture the fast friendship between the boozey nurses. Despite her considerable bulk, inebriated manner of speaking, and obvious humbug, Sairey Gamp is (not to put too fine a point upon it) a lovable rascal. Like thirty-two-year-old Dickens ("Boz"), Mrs. Gamp has constructed her own character as a public persona, and has developed a life-affirming double. However, in Mrs. Gamp's case, the invented double confers upon her inventor a sterling character that she has done little or nothing to deserve. Dickens and Phiz can therefore afford to sacrifice Mrs. Harris because she exists largely for the sake of self-promotion and advertisement.

In Phiz's illustration, the corpulent, late middle-aged women appear as virtual twins. Phiz emphasizes the momentous nature of Bestey Prig's rebellion by a "shaft of light emanating from the window . . . [which] falls directly on Mrs. Gamp's ample stomach, thus hinting again at her function as a midwife, midwife of actual human beings on he one hand and — perhaps — imaginary human beings on he other" (Morgentaler 11). Above the mantle Sairey keeps a portrait of her friend, dressed for a ball in youth; the embedded image is therefore suitably improbable, but accordingly a piece of the occupant's character or a legitimate projection of it, exactly like the rest of the furnishings in the room. In pride of place Phiz has placed Mrs. Gamp's bird-headed umbrella which seems to smile upon her namesake.

Mr.Pinch is amazed by an unexpected apparition

Chapter 50

Phiz

The door stood open. As the tread advanced, Tom looked impatiently and eagerly towards it. When a figure came upon the landing, and arriving in the doorway, stopped and gazed at him, he rise up from his chair, and half believed he saw a spirit.
Old Martin Chuzzlewit! The same whom he had left at Mr. Pecksniff's, weak and sinking!
The same? No, not the same, for this old man, though old, was strong, and leaned upon his stick with a vigorous hand, while with the other he signed to Tom to make no noise. One glance at the resolute face, the watchful eye, the vigorous hand upon the staff, the triumphant purpose in the figure, and such a light broke in on Tom as blinded him.

Commentary: The Anonymous Benefactor Reveals Himself

In Mr. Pinch is amazed by an unexpected apparition (June 1844), Phiz presents palpable evidence to affirm that Tom has faithfully carried out his commission. Now that Tom has restored order and made sense of the chaos in the private library, Old Martin chooses to resolve the mystery of the unknown benefactor by revealing himself in his true colours, not just to Tom but also to the reader. Writer and illustrator both emphasize the transformation of the Chuzzlewit patriarch, yet another of the novel's many metamorphoses. No longer a weak, sickly, paranoid, and deluded senior, Old Martin in Phiz's plate appears "vigorous" and in control of his faculties (and, the reader suspects, the plot, for he was responsible for Pecksniff's dismissing Martin as well as Fips' retaining Tom to restore order to the library). In the illustration intended to accompany Chapter 50, the vase now contains blooms, the chairs are upright, the shelves well stocked, and the table's writing implements in good order and ready to use. The bookcase is surmounted by something not seen in the previous plate describing the library, Mysterious Installation of Mr. Pinch (March 1844) — a classical bust of a blind patriarch or bard, perhaps Homer, Virgil, or Aesop (certainly somebody whose work according to the judgment of posterity has earned him such a memorial, in contrast to numerous busts of Pecksniff that one sees in the novel's earlier illustrations). That the figure represented is Aesop would be appropriate since his fables often involve the exposure of vice, the correction of faulty thinking, the abasement of the proud, and the application in the narrative of the principle of Nemesis.

Betsey Prigg and Mrs. Gamp

Harry Furniss

Text illustrated:

"Mrs. Harris, Betsey —"
"Bother Mrs. Harris!" said Betsey Prig.
Mrs. Gamp looked at her with amazement, incredulity, and indignation; when Mrs. Prig, shutting her eye still closer, and folding her arms still tighter, uttered these memorable and tremendous words:
"I don't believe there's no sich a person!"
After the utterance of which expressions, she leaned forward, and snapped her fingers once, twice, thrice; each time nearer to the face of Mrs. Gamp, and then rose to put on her bonnet, as one who felt that there was now a gulf between them, which nothing could ever bridge across.
The shock of this blow was so violent and sudden, that Mrs. Gamp sat staring at nothing with uplifted eyes, and her mouth open as if she were gasping for breath, until Betsey Prig had put on her bonnet and her shawl, and was gathering the latter about her throat. Then Mrs. Gamp rose — morally and physically rose — and denounced her.
"What!" said Mrs. Gamp, "you bage creetur, have I know'd Mrs. Harris five and thirty year, to be told at last that there ain't no sech a person livin'! Have I stood her friend in all her troubles, great and small, for it to come at last to sech a end as this, which her own sweet picter hanging up afore you all the time, to shame your Bragian words! But well you mayn't believe there's no sech a creetur, for she wouldn't demean herself to look at you, and often has she said, when I have made mention of your name, which, to my sinful sorrow, I have done, 'What, Sairey Gamp! debage yourself to her!' Go along with you!"
"I'm a-goin', ma'am, ain't I?" said Mrs. Prig, stopping as she said it.

Commentary

The comic narrative involving Mrs. Gamp's imaginary friend and confidant Mrs. Harris takes a sharp but inevitable turn as Betsey Prig, Sairey's fellow nurse, denounces the trusty supporter of all of Sairey's views as a mere figment of the Gampish imagination: "I don't believe there's no sich a person!" (although her use of the double negative undermines her assertion somewhat). Such betrayal by a long-term confederate in the practice of nursing (and of fleecing clients) is indeed worthy of artistic comment, so that one may find versions of this scene in the principal nineteenth-century illustrated editions.

In the Furniss narrative-pictorial sequence of twenty-eight lithographic translations of pen-and-ink drawings, we find Sairey Gamp present in just four (counting her significantly placed miniature in "Characters in the Story"); in Phiz's original forty steel-engravings, she fares no better proportionately, appearing in just five of the illustrations. She seems to have been something of an afterthought in Dickens's design since he introduced her as late as the eighth monthly number, and not significantly until the tenth monthly number in Mrs. Gamp Has Her Eye on the Future (Chapter 26, October 1843), just as Dickens was thinking of the servants and service-providers such as Mrs. Dilber in A Christmas Carol (1843). She reaches her apogee in the pair of illustrations involving her relationship with fellow-nurse Betsey Prig in the May-June 1844 numbers, Mrs. Gamp Makes Tea (Chapter 46) and Mrs. Gamp Propoges a Toast (see below), this last having been the basis for illustrations by both Fred Barnard in the Household Edition of 1872 and Furniss in the Charles Dickens Library Edition of 1910. She is consistently depicted as a caricature rather than a character, although Furniss has taken pains to humanise the obese, androgynous figure borrowed from the Phiz engravings and particularly from Barnard's Then Mrs. Gamp rose — morally and physically rose — and denounced her (see below), in which the pair are no longer seated comfortably, as in the Phiz illustration, but each has risen to her feet in indignation at the behaviour of the other with respect to the fictive Mrs. Harris. In Barnard's expanded scheme of fifty-eight wood-block engravings, Sairey appears six times, excluding her portrait in Barnard's separate 1879 publication, Ten Characters from Dickens, the imperial Mrs. Gamp, on the Art of Nursing (based on Chapter 25, and used as a frontispiece in such cheap American reprints as the Dana Estes volume). In her introductory plate featuring the undertaker, Mr. Mould, and Mr. Pecksniff, "Well, Mrs. Gamp, how are you, Mrs. Gamp?" said this gentleman, in a voice as soft as his step (Chapter 19), the illustrator has been careful to work in every detail associated with her: the oversized bonnet, the shawl, the mourning dress of expansive proportions, the enormous handbag, and the umbrella with the large, hooked handle which gives her her surname.

Furniss includes her just four times, although she is one of just four characters who merit individual character studies (Sairey Gamp, Chapter 22, based on the 1879 Barnard portrait). His version of the falling out between Betsey and Sairey has greater depth of field and contrasting poses as Betsey turns her back, spurning the mere mention of Mrs. Harris, even as Sairey reaches over the teapot trying to get her attention. The only salient detail, apart from the sketched in bonnet and dress hanging up in the background (left), is the hatboxes (down right and upper right). His Sairey seems genuinely disturbed that Bestsey should pronounce such a heretical opinion of her beloved Mrs. Harris, her constant rhetorical prop and rhetorical reference, rather than indignant or angry, whereas the equivalent Barnard figure for the same moment has to support herself by holding onto the enormous chair and the small tea-table. Furniss clearly has greater sympathy for the distressed Sairey than Barnard.

"Speak out!" Said Martin, "and speak the truth."

Chapter 48

Fred Barnard

The three young men uncovering the secret that cost Mr. Montague his life are John Westlock, Martin, and the dissipated surgeon Dr. Lewsome, who unwittingly assisted Jonas in poisoning his father.

Sairey Gamp and Betsey Prig

Sol Eytinge Jr.

Sairey Gamp

Harry Furniss

Kim wrote: "Sairey Gamp and Betsey Prig {by} Sol Eytinge Jr."

This drawing of Sarah reminds me a little bit of John Tenniel's illustrations from Alice in Wonderland. Sarah and the Duchess could be... well, maybe not sisters, but cousins.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...

Mary Lou wrote: "Kim wrote: "Sairey Gamp and Betsey Prig {by} Sol Eytinge Jr."

This drawing of Sarah reminds me a little bit of John Tenniel's illustrations from Alice in Wonderland. Sarah and the Duchess could be..."

Mary Lou

A very interesting comparison.

Kim wrote: "

Mr.Pinch is amazed by an unexpected apparition

Chapter 50

Phiz

The door stood open. As the tread advanced, Tom looked impatiently and eagerly towards it. When a figure came upon the landing, ..."

What a great illustration. Tom has fulfilled his task of creating order in the mysterious room and old Martin appears at the door in complete control of his health and mind. This illustration is a visual representation that order will be restored in the novel.

Mrs. Gamp and Betsey Prig

Fred Barnard

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Mary Lou wrote: "Strangely, my wife was not amused, but my son was."

Once again I am left wondering how she puts up with you."

Like the proud owner of a white elephant :-)

Kim wrote: " From The Life of Charles Dickens by John Forster:

In construction and conduct of story Martin Chuzzlewit is defective, character and description constituting the chief part of its strength. But ..."

I fully agree with Forster: The plot itself abounds in holes and ruptures, but the characters and the atmosphere more than atone for that.

Kim wrote: "

Mrs. Gamp proposes a toast

Chapter 49

Phiz

Commentary:

 Mrs. Gamp propoges a toast, is the third and last to feature Sairey Gamp in person. This famous illustration, depicting the moment imme..."

Is Mrs. Harris a mere sham? Probably, but I remember that when I first reread MC after a couple of years I was under the impression that in this chapter of Mrs. Gamp's tea party, Mrs. Harris would be actually there, in flesh and blood, as real as both Mrs. Gamp and Mrs. Prig, and I was really surprised to find that she had actually never made her appearance in the book in person, all those years between my two readings having added her as a real character. So, in a way, Mrs. Harris was quite real to me.

"I don't believe there's no sich a person!"

Charles Edmund Brock

Mr. Gamp

Monro Scott Orr

Taking tea

Ron Embleton