4MK Discussion Group discussion

J.D. BarkerThe Fourth Monkey

Welcome to our first discussion in the 4MK Discussion Group. We will focus on the FIRST book in the trilogy "The Fourth Monkey". Please take note that we will be discussing this book in depth and SPOILERS ARE ALLOWED. If you have not read this book yet, I do not recommend reading further in this post. And if you have read beyond the first book, please be sure not to post any spoilers for book 2 and/or 3. This discussion is for the first book only. That being said, let's begin!!

Here are some questions to get us started, but please feel free to ask any other questions you may have or expand further on any topic.

1) Were you surprised to find out who 4MK really was? Were there any signs that Paul Watson wasn't who he claimed to be?

2) Do you think the Diary is 100% true? Sometimes what people perceive is what they believe to be true. Could the Diary be true in Bishop's mind?

3) 4MK is viewed as a monster because he is killing the (innocent) loved ones of people he believes to be evil. How do you think he would be viewed if he killed the 'evil doers' directly? Would he be seen more as a vigilante? or even a hero?

4) Jacob Kittner was tattooed with an infinity symbol / figure eight. What do you think this symbol represents? Do you think it was significant or do you think it was a red herring?

5) Mother ran off with Mrs. Carter and Franklin Kirby. Why do you think she left Bishop behind? Do you think this was always her intention?

6) How do you feel about the ending? Do you think Porter will help Bishop find his mother?

7) What are your thoughts on how book two will progress?

8) Are there any unanswered questions you are still trying to puzzle out?


These are just a few questions to get us started. Feel free to answer any of them, or all of them, or pose some questions of your own.

As to question 1, I was honestly surprised by Paul. At first I thought he was a little odd just joining in with them, and I kept looking for "why", but even then I wasn't clued in. Not until they went to Porter's place and I got a bad feeling. Then as far as the diary goes, I was really taking it all as truth, except for a few of the wilder instances, which I thought might have been exaggerated either in his own mind, or for shock value to anyone who read his diary.

I was surprised to learn the real identity of Watson! I didn’t see any signs to suspect Watson wasn’t who he claimed to be, maybe if I read it again. If anyone had done a reread can you see any clues?

Q3- I do think the 4MK would’ve be viewed differently if he killed the ‘evil doers’. Yes more of a vigilante! (Do not agree to what he is doing no matter the persons actions)

Q5- I couldn’t get a read on the Mother if it was her intention or not. From the Diary entry I think maybe her “plans” didn’t go planned and she did what she had to, to stay out of jail. Maybe we’ll get more answers in the next book. Which leads to Q6- I do think that Porter will help find his Mother. 4MK and Porter have a weird connection and I think Porter is curious about the 4MKs past.

This is a re-read for me. I don't usually reread suspense books, because once you know the twist it just seems kind of pointless. But this is one I have always wanted to go back and look for clues to Watson's identity. There are definitely clues - Barker is pretty vague about him, and you can see how maybe Porter's grief is getting in the way of really thinking about this new addition to the team. BTW, it's great the second time around too.

1) I was shocked!! I really liked Watson, and didn’t suspect him at all!

2) Some of the things in the diary didn’t feel 100% true. As 4MK was a child at the time, I’m pretty sure a lot was exaggerated, but he remembers it that way. Or he is fabricating some of it.

3) I think 4MK’s reasoning behind killing innocents is, he once was too an innocent and he suffered. He through no fault of his own, got abandoned by his twisted, sick parents, and he paid a heavy price for the rest of his life. So why shouldn’t others? I don’t think he’s a complete monster. He is trying to punish awful people, just going about it in a sick way.

5) I think the mother wasn’t fit to take care of her son, and never wanted to.

6) I actually hope Porter does help find ‘Watson’s’ mother! I want to meet her!

Just like all of you, I was surprised to find out who Watson really was! It wasn't until, like you Maureen, I got that sinking feeling when they were in Sam's apartment. I really liked Watson, and of course loved the references to "Dr. Watson" [being the Sherlock nerd that I am]. After we found out who he was I was cringing for Sam, who opened up to him about his wife's murder.

I agree with you all about the Diary. A lot felt over the top but it could definitely be because it was written as Bishop remembered it as a kid. Sometimes perception really is reality. And did you catch the comments from Mother in Chapter 81, when she said to Mrs. Carter "I told you the boy was broken. He's not right, never has been," and then where she asked Anson "When was the last time you took your medication?" Might be an insight to his mental wellness??

That's a really good point, Nils, about 4MK killing the innocents so that they would suffer as he felt he suffered, at the hands of his evil parents. I hadn't looked at it that way. He is definitely going about it in a sick way!

I'm SO glad Emory lived in the end. I was also shocked to find out that her mother was Mrs. Carter!! There are so many little pieces that tie together.

I agree with you, Christine, in that Porter and 4MK have a weird connection. Maybe it's cop/criminal? Good vs. evil? Like Sherlock and Moriarty?

Do you think the man who killed Porter's wife is really dead? Or do you think the ear in the box was just the first stage like his other victims??

I do hope Sam help's find Bishop's mother also, Nils, it would be really interesting to get to know her and see if she is really as crazy as she was portrayed in the Diary.

Angel wrote: "This is a re-read for me. I don't usually reread suspense books, because once you know the twist it just seems kind of pointless. But this is one I have always wanted to go back and look for clues ..."

Angel, I'm glad you are enjoying the book the second time around, I am as well. I still didn't see *many* clues as to who 4MK was, but as you said anything would be subtle. And it is great the second time also. I found more clues about other things in the book and also felt like I got to know the characters a bit more.

For example, I noticed this time around that in the Diary Bishop mentioned Father picking up his fedora when he went off to work, and then there was the fedora that was found on the guy who was hit by the bus. I don't know if that was connected but I have to think it was as fedoras are not really common. As if it was a piece of his past that had meaning to him. Just little clues or connections.

Maureen wrote: "As to question 1, I was honestly surprised by Paul. At first I thought he was a little odd just joining in with them, and I kept looking for "why", but even then I wasn't clued in. Not until they w..."

I had the same feelings about Paul, but I totally did not see him being the killer, whatsoever! After I read that line I did a double take and went back to read the earlier chapters with him in it. Couldn't believe it at all, but it totally made sense.

Nils | nilsreviewsit wrote: "1) I was shocked!! I really liked Watson, and didn’t suspect him at all!

2) Some of the things in the diary didn’t feel 100% true. As 4MK was a child at the time, I’m pretty sure a lot was exagger..."

I completely agree with you about question 3! I hadn't thought of that initially, but it completely makes sense. He also became what he is as a result of his parents, so, maybe he sees that in him eliminating the "innocent" family members, he's potentially nipping further evil in the bud.

4) Jacob Kittner was tattooed with an infinity symbol / figure eight. What do you think this symbol represents? Do you think it was significant or do you think it was a red herring?

I have NO idea what this tattoo is about, but I am very curious to see if it has any significance in the next book.

6) How do you feel about the ending? Do you think Porter will help Bishop find his mother?

I definitely think that Porter is going to help Bishop find his mom. They are now tied together and share some weird twisted connection, and I think they will form a love/hate type of friendship/relationship. I also wonder if Sam will report the death of the guy who killed his wife, or if he will hang onto the secret of the ear for a little while. I am very interested to see what happens with that.

8) Are there any unanswered questions you are still trying to puzzle out?

Maybe I missed this, but does the watch store end up having any real significance? Was he just claiming that his uncle owned it to get Porter over there to that area? Because if the plan was to really go there together, wouldn't it become obvious whether or not the owner and Anson knew each other? I think that would be suspicious in and of itself. Is that how he was planning on having them figure it out? I have no idea.

Just a thought!

Dena wrote: "Angel wrote: "This is a re-read for me. I don't usually reread suspense books, because once you know the twist it just seems kind of pointless. But this is one I have always wanted to go back and l..."

I totally missed that fedora part!

Rebekah wrote: "4) Jacob Kittner was tattooed with an infinity symbol / figure eight. What do you think this symbol represents? Do you think it was significant or do you think it was a red herring?

I have NO idea..."

Rebekah, about your question of the Watch Shop, that's an interesting one!! I guess I was thinking that when he said his uncle owned the watch shop it was so he would seem important to the team, and that they would want him to stay involved? Give him a task to follow up on? But also it definitely was a clue, a way to lead the team to the Dry Cleaners, where the ticket came from, and where they found Emory's clothes... another clue. I don't know what he would have done if Porter actually went with him to the watch shop during a time that it was opened.... maybe he had someone there pretending to be his uncle?

1)I was totally surprised that Paul Watson was 4 MK! It was a terrific twist as I never thought it was someone on the team. I pay much closer attention to books that I’ve read since this one! Trust no one.

Renee wrote: "1)I was totally surprised that Paul Watson was 4 MK! It was a terrific twist as I never thought it was someone on the team. I pay much closer attention to books that I’ve read since this one! Trust..."

Ha, Renee!! "Trust no one." I love it!!

Dena wrote: "Renee wrote: "1)I was totally surprised that Paul Watson was 4 MK! It was a terrific twist as I never thought it was someone on the team. I pay much closer attention to books that I’ve read since t..."
I forgot my own advice! Lol! I pegged the wrong person in a book that I finished yesterday! I was close,but not close enough!