The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

We're now into our third week, and the plot thickens!

Does everyone have chapter titles in their versions? I did enjoy Trollope's 3 successive titles:

Ch 17: Marie Melmotte Hears a Love Tale
Ch 18: Ruby Ruggles Hears a Love Tale
Ch 19: Hetta Carbury Hears a Love Tale

Unfortunately the first 2 feature the same suitor. So we now have 2 love triangles-Felix/Marie/Ruby and Henrietta/Roger/Paul. There is a lot to compare and contrast between the two-what are your impressions of how they will play out?

What did you think of the dinner party at Lady Pomona's?

Were you surprised by the amount of gambling and how the men settle their accounts?

What did you think of Melmotte's response to Felix, and do you think Felix can recover his position?

Please share your thoughts on our tale so far.

Yeah, I was surprised by the huge amounts of money they were betting. I'd expect much smaller amounts between friends.

Felix's morality has a limit - he doesn't cheat at cards. That's a pretty low bar, but it did surprised me that he had one. If anyone was cheating, I would have expected it to be him.

Will Felix's scheme of making money by buying and selling shares work? Or is his money gone forever?

I know what would happen with the Felix/Ruby story if this were Hardy or even George Eliot, but I'm not sure where Trollope will go with it. I have a feeling the priest will be the one to find out since he seems to know everyone in the neighborhood (especially if the Ruggleses are Catholics, which I don't know if they are).

‘Soda and brandy!’ Roger exclaimed to himself almost aloud, thinking of the discomfiture of that early morning. ‘He’ll die some day of delirium tremens in a hospital!’

I believe that in Trollope’s time, only paupers died in hospital. Most people died at home.

My opinion of Felix just keeps getting worse, although it is true he didn’t cheat at cards and is unfairly a victim of Miles’s refusal to honor his debts. Both Marie and Ruby are girls who have no real knowledge of the world but live more in the daydreams prompted by their reading. Both have no idea of Felix’s real character, but only see his handsomeness and his title and his ability to make them think he loves them.

I was surprised by the narrator’s very harsh words about Melmotte, echoed by Felix. Putting aside his business ethics, or lack of them, Melmotte is trying to obtain the best marriage for Marie as he can. How many honorable Trollope fathers have been after the same result? Why shouldn’t Melmotte require that a husband, who might benefit mightily from Marie’s money, not have to bring his own into the marriage? Whether he truly understands the fine points of English inheritance and primogeniture, Melmotte does discern that Felix will not automatically even be the heir of Carbury Manor, a fact which Felix is trying to shroud in vagueness.

In addition, even though Melmotte is regarded perhaps as a swindler, as a shady businessman, it is his reputation which has made the Mexican Railroad popular. Without that, no one could sell their shares at a profit. And none of the Board members, except for Paul who is shushed by the others, even understands or seems to care about how the business of the railroad works. Although many admire Melmotte or rely on his advice economically, he is socially inferior even to the point of not wanting to associate with him, which says more about the morals of those who judge him than it does about Melmotte himself.

Unfortunately for Roger, Henrietta is just not physically attracted to him as she is to Paul. Her “cousinly” love and respect for him is certainly increasing, but will there be a tipping point? I think I am edging more towards agreeing with Roger that once Paul realized Roger’s feelings for Henrietta, he should have put an end to any hope of courtship for an extended period of time, if not permanently, out of respect for Roger.

Despite their social standing, it's apparent that the Longestaffes don’t know how to organize a successful ball beyond the superficial glamor of the setting. The narrator gives the impression that the size of the room where the guests gathered was just too big and did not encourage mingling and conversation. Just the opposite of the successful party given by Melmotte, the social inferior.

Frances wrote: "I did enjoy Trollope's 3 successive titles:

Ch 17: Marie Melmotte Hears a Love Tale
Ch 18: Ruby Ruggles Hears a Love Tale
Ch 19: Hetta Carbury Hears a Love Tale..."

Yes, I enjoyed that too; and the chapters provide a nice contrast in the styles of courtship between Felix (in the first two) and Roger (in the third.) The poverty of Felix's powers of expression and imagination is really striking compared to Roger's heartfelt eloquence; and it was nice to read Roger's avowal of love described as "manly."

Of course it's clear that Felix does not really care for either of his targets and is merely putting in the minimum amount of effort. But you'd think that with the prospect of a huge fortune, he might manage a little more enthusiasm for the sake of Marie's money if not for the poor girl herself. He doesn't seem to care that much even for the money - perhaps because his mother has always bailed him out in the past and he assumes she always will.

It's ironic that it is Felix, with nothing to recommend him but his looks, who succeeds in winning over both girls - Marie simply being desperate for affection, and Ruby for an escape from her humdrum country life. Meanwhile the truly admirable, caring and eloquent suitor Roger continues to be unsuccessful. Personally I think Hetta should grab him.

Chapter 24, about one fourth of the book and Paul seems far from winning Hetta's love, Hetta is warming towards Roger (or so I hope), and mr Melmotte is not favourable to Felix as a suitor... meanwhile money come and go. Ruby Ruggles was totally unexpected! I am truly enjoying this book, wondering what will happen next?

About what Linda wrote about mr Melmotte: Trollope always associates to him the word "swindler" like an homeric epithet but really, if I am not wrong, all his bad actions are in the past. I rather liked him and the way he acted in the conversation with Felix.

Daniela wrote: "I rather liked (Melmotte) and the way he acted in the conversation with Felix.."

Agreed, he clearly sees through all these young men swarming around his daughter for her fortune, however I wonder if it is for love of his daughter and wanting the best husband for her or if it is because he is looking for the best "deal" for himself by marrying her off to the highest bidder. Sadly, I suspect it is the latter.

I really hope that Paul stops gambling with that group, since he is the only one with ready money. I hope Miles gets caught cheating, since they do play for high stakes. Most of the gamblers have no productive role in society, so their influence is not good on Paul, who started out wanting to work for an honest living.
As for Felix, at least he doesn't cheat at cards, but other than that his behaviour is shabby, especially the way he manipulates his mother.

Agreed, what a waste of lives we see in all these young men-and to think they all would rather sneer at anyone who had to work for a living!

1) An attraction of Melmotte is how he manipulates and keeps in line these nitwit nobles, who are deserving of a bit of comeuppance.
2) While Roger is solid and moral, he is also smug and self righteous. I think those characteristics make him a better well-rounded character, but also make him more unattractive as a husband for Hetta. After a life with her mother, she could use a life with someone a little more adaptable and less self-righteous than Roger, He has been noble in his approach to Hetta, though, in not putting undue pressure on her.
3) I've probably read more of Trollope and Wodehouse than any other authors and, with the way the noble and wealthy males are portrayed, it does make me wonder how the British Empire survived as long as it did.

Brian wrote: "1 with the way the noble and wealthy males are portrayed, it does make me wonder how the British Empire survived as long as it did."

Is it going to survive much longer under the current regime of such specimens?

Responding to Lori Goshert's comment, in reading about Ruby Ruggles I'm reminded of Hetty Sorrel in Eliot's _Adam Bede_ and wondering if a similar plotline will develop. Again, Trollope is no Hardy nor Eliot, so it's difficult to guess.

Good point, Elizabeth. Trollope is not as dark as Hardy, so the outcome for Ruby should be less grim.

Trollope is cupcakes and rainbows compared to Hardy. :-D