Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our fourth challenge book, Shroud for a Nightingale by P.D. James.

The young women of Nightingale House are there to learn to nurse and comfort the suffering. But when one of the students plays patient in a demonstration of nursing skills, she is horribly, brutally killed. It is up to Adam Dalgliesh to unmask a killer who has decided to prescribe murder as the cure for all ills.

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

As usual, I finished this in time for the discussion. Has anyone else finished it? I had the murderer pegged from the earliest pages, and as usual, I was wrong.

I just wonder what happened to Morag? I don't remember any resolution of her neither being in the house nor in the hut that burned near the end.

She was the body in the hut that burned. wrong - I'll have to think. (I've read 2 books, a short story, and about 1/4 of a novel since I finished this.)

Carol wrote: "I just wonder what happened to Morag? I don't remember any resolution of her neither being in the house nor in the hut that burned near the end."

In the phone call from Mary Taylor about the fire, Dalgliesh asks her about Morag because she, Morage, often slept in the hut. "I know. She told me so this evening after she'd brought you in. I gave her a bed here for the night. Morag is safe. That was the first thing I checked."

That is the last entry about Morag.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Carol wrote: "I just wonder what happened to Morag? I don't remember any resolution of her neither being in the house nor in the hut that burned near the end."

In the phone call from Mary Taylor a..."

I thought she went to check Morag after that & didn't find her. I probably misunderstood something I read -- I get interrupted so often when I read, it's a wonder I don't get confused more often! LOL Thanks for your answer.

Well, thank you for talking about her. She was an interesting character. Although she had such a small appearance in the novel, she was important for the solution.

It was nice that Dalgliesh cared about Morag. She was not a sympathetic character or, indeed, a major one, so his reaction to her possible plight revealed a little more about Dalgliesh.

Dalgliesh is coming alive for me now (finally) and am rather glad there was no mention of the ex-girl friend from the first book. I wondered if he would become involved with the matron, and if attraction to suspects would be an annoying (in my opinion) feature in the books. I wonder if his rather disgusting sidekick will be back.

I finished reading this. It seemed better than the earlier books in the series. My main disappointment was the police sergeant. In the tv series years ago he was a lovely character, but in the book I don’t like him. I assume he will be in other books in this series, so Sandy & I will both have to put up with him again! Although he got the required information, I thought the dancing episode was unethical. He must have known that, as he didn’t tell Dalgliesh how he got the information.

Trisha wrote: " I thought the dancing episode was unethical. "

I thought he was not skilled enough to know how to get the information without being blackmailed (yes, I think he was blackmailed, sort of).

And he was running late after a back seat 'quickie' with the attractive student.

Sandy wrote: "And he was running late after a back seat 'quickie' with the attractive student."

That's the way a lot of men are.

Sandy wrote: "And he was running late after a back seat 'quickie' with the attractive student."

And let's not forget: the "quickie" wasn't his idea, it was hers.

I liked Masterson as a rather grubby foil to the ever-fastidious Dalgleish - that night in London was grotesque but amusing! I've commented before that for me James lacks a sense of humour: not any more!

And was anyone else not quite convinced by the solution? I guessed Mary Taylor but Miss Brumfett?

This is by far the best in series to date. I liked the characters better than the previous book. A complex plot which I enjoyed. I knew it was one of the sisters, but struggled with motive.

Roman Clodia wrote: "And was anyone else not quite convinced by the solution? I guessed Mary Taylor but Miss Brumfett?"

It was the last part of the book that spoiled it for me - most of it was a 5 star read. Somehow “Masterson as a grubby foil...” didn’t work very well for me, nor did the solution. The book was good, but the end just didn’t quite match the rest of it.

I'll admit that I thought it was Dr. Courtney-whats-his-name from the first pages (motive to be revealed) and could hardly wait for that egotistical @#$# to be arrested and jailed. So I was definitely surprised. The only part I didn't especially care for was the burning of the hut and Brumfett.

I thought the same, Elizabeth, but perhaps he was too obvious in hindsight. He reminded me a little of the doctor in the psychiatric hospital, we met in A Mind for Murder.

Oh, you're right, Susan!

There is a great bit in a radio series called Great Lives which focuses on PD James. Val McDermid talks about how some people thought of PD James as a 'cosy' writer but her scenes are quite horrific. She goes on to say how the scene with the gastric feeding from this book made the hairs on the back of her neck stand up.
The link is https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05v... and the part about Shroud for a Nightingale is about 4 minutes in. If the link doesn't work for those outside UK I can post a quick transcript. The whole episode is a good insight into PD James and her life.

I was also thinking of Courtney-Bridges, but knew that he was too obvious. I actually thought he was the slimiest in the book. I really wasn’t too sure until it as revealed. In a book like this though, I would go with the more moral or straight edge characters, as they usually tend to be the ones that did it, i.e. they’re more clean, except for the one brutal act they did.

I actually liked the part with Masterson, and this book, and the last one with the sketchy club people, show the seedy side of the business. I definitely felt the 60’s and 70’s London and Britain atmospheres in the last few books, similar to films of the period. Most of my favorite films are 60’s British films.

Just finished this, and found it by far the best of the series so far. I thought at first it would be Goodale because she was so straight and engaged to a vicar. So I think I was applying Bruce's theory here!

After a while I felt it had to be one of the senior nurses, especially once Dalgliesh ran through the alibis, but didn't get the motive until they began talking about the war trial.

Roman Clodia wrote: "And was anyone else not quite convinced by the solution? I guessed Mary Taylor but Miss Brumfett?"

I have just finished and enjoyed this a lot. I became increasingly convinced it was Mary because of all her golden perfection and the fact a couple of the other Sisters had vaguely Germanic surnames, which were likely to be misleading! I found it a bit much to have both her and Brumfett being capable of killing. What are the chances?

Something I wasn't clear about - does anyone know, does Mary Taylor carry out the violent attack on Dalgliesh, or is that Ethel Brumfett? I'm wondering if I somehow missed an explanation of this.

I was assuming Taylor because she is very tall, and it's mentioned it would have to be a tall attacker. But if so it seems rather odd that she uses her own golf club! It's also very odd that Dalgliesh then goes and confronts her on her own, if he knows she has just tried to kill him - although many detectives seem to suddenly go in for similar confrontations towards the end of mysteries!

Judy wrote: "Something I wasn't clear about - does anyone know, does Mary Taylor carry out the violent attack on Dalgliesh, or is that Ethel Brumfett? I'm wondering if I somehow missed an explanation of this.

..."

I thought it was Brumfett, but now I'm not sure why.

Elizabeth - I’m late finishing this, but definitely for other reasons!

Susan - I agree that there seems to be a similarity between Courtney-Briggs and other arrogant doctors in P. D. James. I think James, in part, wanted an arrogant top-of his-field surgeon to compare and contrast with Dalgleish. Obviously this is to Dalgleish’s advantage, but his pride is clearly shown to be hurt in the way he responds to having been surprised by his attacker at the end.

One of the things I liked was the various comparisons between the different characters. In particular, their different religious/philosophical attitudes, something that is important to James throughout her books (obviously “Death in Holy Orders”, for example). There’s the fanatically religious, hypocritical Pearce compared to the balanced, intelligent and conscientiously religious Goodalle. In contrast, Taylor has a very bleak, nihilistic philosophy, but nevertheless uses her intelligence to do good in the world. As Dalgleish responds to these characters we learn more about him; Raised in a religious background, respectful towards intelligent religion, agnostic. Since James deliberately wrote Dalgeish’s character to embody all that she most admired, we learn about her through him (along with various interviews, of course). James had a great affection for Anglicanism and believed in God. But, her idea of intelligence (something she greatly admited) led her to be agnostic beyond that basic belief.

Typically, one can think of whodunnits as being a set of parallel short stories that closely interact. One story is the one that represents the actual solution to whodunnit. The others provide red herrings as to possibly whodunnit, along with interacting with each other and the actual solution. I enjoyed this aspect of this novel, with the mini-stories between Pearce and Dakers, Falcon and Courtney-Briggs, for example.

Critical to why it must have been Brumfett whodunnit is the following: The attempt to make Fallon’s death look like suicide relied upon returning the source of the poison to Fallon’s room; It was Brumfett who was defeated in doing this by the twins.

Nick wrote: "Typically, one can think of whodunnits as being a set of parallel short stories that closely interact. One story is the one that represents the actual solution to whodunnit. The others provide red ..."

While I've never thought of mysteries as 'a set of parallel short stories' I agree completely. How interesting those stories and their participants are, and how cleverly they are interwoven, relates to how much I enjoy, and become involved in, the book.